M.D. Perkins, documentary filmmaker and AFA Research Fellow for Church and Culture, returns to “The Corner” to discuss Culture Warrior.

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:01Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:04It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:07This is the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
4. 0:12It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:16Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:19And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:21God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
8. 0:25Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:27Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:29And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:34Good evening, everybody.
12. 0:35Welcome to the Hamilton Corner here on American Family Radio.
13. 0:38I am your host, Abraham Hamilton, the third joined by the real.
14. 0:42Jay Mac, you know, some of y'all don't know what the studio is like,
15. 0:46but some people walk by and they're not coming to see me.
16. 0:50I'm just going to leave it right there.
17. 0:53Thank you for tuning in to the program.
18. 0:55I'm looking forward to having the conversation we're going to have
19. 1:01Today, it is absolutely true.
20. 1:04Darkness is not an affirmative force.
21. 1:07It immediately reoccupies the space that is vacated by the light.
22. 1:11I hope and pray at this very moment, as many of you are making your transitions from your
23. 1:17part-time jobs where you generate an income to your full-time jobs, where you cultivate
24. 1:21an outcome that you do so with intentionality, understanding the primacy that God places
25. 1:27on family understanding what goes on in your house is far more important than what goes
26. 1:34on in the White House.
27. 1:36I said in another way your cabinet is more important than the Trump transition team cabinet.
28. 1:40Okay, that was just a little joke.
29. 1:45Of course, I know cabinet and federal administration are people.
30. 1:49Many of you may have snacks in your cabinets at home, but the simple point is what happens
31. 1:55in your house?
32. 1:56We cannot take our eyes off the ball.
33. 1:58to speak, we cannot allow ourselves to become distracted and to externalize, let me see that
34. 2:05better, to export what God requires of us to other individuals or other entities, that
35. 2:12they're things that God has required of you and me, that government cannot and will not
36. 2:17ever accomplish.
37. 2:20Much of what is transpired in our country has corresponded to the decimation of our families.
38. 2:28I understand that there are policies that have been implemented that have contributed to that,
39. 2:33but also the refusal of individuals to embrace and adhere to God's word has many times made
40. 2:43them susceptible to the carnage implemented by policy.
41. 2:50So certainly we want godly people engaging.
42. 2:54We need all people to engage on the civic front in terms of our civic participation.
43. 2:58We need Godly people that are willing to make the sacrifice to put themselves out there to
44. 3:03be servant leaders, but we'll never be able to out-polish the deficiencies that are prevalent
45. 3:09and abounding in our homes.
46. 3:13God knows the various stations that we're in in our lives, what stages that we're in, some
47. 3:17of us are like me, you have young children at home, some of you may not yet be married,
48. 3:21you may not have any children yet, some of you may be on the other side, you may have adult
49. 3:25children who are grown and gone.
50. 3:28Some of you are in the stage that we commonly described as retirement stage.
51. 3:31No matter what station of life you're in, the fact still remains.
52. 3:35What goes on in your house is far more important than what goes on in the White House.
53. 3:39No matter what station of life you're in, the fact still remains that every Christ followers
54. 3:43called to execute our King's commission.
55. 3:47And we need all hands on deck.
56. 3:50We cannot miss our moment.
57. 3:51This is the moment that God has ordained for you and me.
58. 3:54We must meet the moment with the urgency and with the commitment that God requires of us
59. 4:02so that we may in our generation offer faithfulness to our God and King as our ancestors
60. 4:09in the faith have done in their generations.
61. 4:12The fact that we can open up the Word of God and our commonly spoken vernacular is the by
62. 4:17product of people who have gone before us who literally given their lives and served the
63. 4:22Lord's purposes in their times.
64. 4:23We must serve our Lord's purposes in our time.
65. 4:27So as you've heard me say numerous times, the first
66. 4:30numerous times the first human institution that God
67. 4:32established was the family.
68. 4:34Before we ever get to the modern iterations of civil
69. 4:37government, before we ever get to monarchies, order of
70. 4:41priests and et cetera, the first human institution was the
71. 4:45family with marriage at the center.
72. 4:47The first command that God gave to mankind was given within
73. 4:51the familial context that is instructive for us. You also have heard me have heard me describe
74. 4:58the necessity of executing our king's commission starting on the home front. The Lord said to his
75. 5:04disciples, you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea, in Samaria, until the most part to the
76. 5:10earth. Now the simple fact there is that Judea and Jerusalem weren't all of their hometowns,
77. 5:17but it signifies the fact that that became home base for the ecclesiastical work of God's bride
78. 5:24and the Lord required them to begin working from home base and working outward from there and the
79. 5:29same is true for us. I highlight the reality of our homes not to make it the exclusive domain of
80. 5:35our investment in our king's commission, but it is the first iteration and we worked outward from
81. 5:42from there from our homes to our communities,
82. 5:45from our communities to our counties,
83. 5:48from our counties to our states,
84. 5:49from our states to the entirety of our nation.
85. 5:52And I will continue to say that a booming stock market
86. 5:55does not alone, does not in and of itself make a nation great.
87. 5:59The Lord has told us in His word what makes a nation great,
88. 6:02righteousness exalts a nation.
89. 6:05Sin is a reproach to any people.
90. 6:09To the word of God, we go Exodus 31,
91. 6:11is where I want to focus our attention today.
92. 6:14Exodus chapter 31, verses one through six.
93. 6:18Exodus chapter 31, verses one through six.
94. 6:20What we have here is God providing the design
95. 6:26to Moses for the tabernacle.
96. 6:29And Moses embracing what God had required
97. 6:34for the tabernacle and was laying out his design.
98. 6:37And he came to this particular portion of the text
99. 6:42to where the Lord had these elaborate designs
100. 6:47for the inner workings of the tabernacle, for the structure,
101. 6:50but Moses didn't have the word or thought
102. 6:51to execute that himself, but make no mistake about it.
103. 6:55Before Moses had ever even received the vision,
104. 6:59the revelation of the vision for the tabernacle,
105. 7:01God had already provided the resources.
106. 7:04And the resources include, yes, the materials,
107. 7:06the natural raw materials,
108. 7:09But what I'm talking about here is a people in their training.
109. 7:13Let's look at the word of God.
110. 7:14Exodus 31 verses one through six.
111. 7:20Okay, Exodus 31 verses one through six.
112. 7:24This is what the word of God says.
113. 7:25Now the Lord spoke to Moses saying,
114. 7:29see I have called by name Bezelil, the son of Yuri,
115. 7:34the son of her of the tribe of Judah.
116. 7:37I have filled him with the spirit of God in wisdom
117. 7:42in understanding, in knowledge,
118. 7:46and in all kinds of craftsmanship,
119. 7:49to make artistic designs for work in gold,
120. 7:54in silver, in bronze, and in the cutting of stones
121. 7:58for settings, and in the carving of wood
122. 8:01that he may work in all kinds of craftsmanship.
123. 8:05And behold, I myself have appointed with him
124. 8:09a holy ab, the son of a hyssomac,
125. 8:11of the tribe of Dan and in the hearts of all who are skillful,
126. 8:16I have put skill that they may make
127. 8:19all that I have commanded you.
128. 8:24Now I'm bringing this to your attention
129. 8:26because when we often think about,
130. 8:28or when many times when people describe
131. 8:33the indwelling of the Spirit of God,
132. 8:34what the Spirit of God enables us to do,
133. 8:37we often focus, and there's a right focus to be applied
134. 8:41to, for example, the development of the fruit of the Spirit.
135. 8:44There's a reality that we're drawn to Christ
136. 8:48in regeneration by the Spirit of God,
137. 8:50as the gospel is proclaimed in power,
138. 8:51and that is 100% accurate.
139. 8:53But what I want you to see here
140. 8:56is that God empowers us by His Spirit
141. 8:59also for skillful discharge of various vocations.
142. 9:06How often do you have people who would think
143. 9:08or reflect on the fact that, wait a minute,
144. 9:11The Lord said in his word that he filled Bezzalio with his spirit for all manner of craftsmanship.
145. 9:20You know too often in our context people describe laborers who work with their hands and manual
146. 9:25laborers as just that manual laborers.
147. 9:27Do we often have we ever stop to think that man God equips people by his spirit to labor
148. 9:33in these ways.
149. 9:35God gives people, gives spirit to be able to work with their hands.
150. 9:40In this instance, the ability was present before God had even given Moses the revelation for
151. 9:48what was necessary for the tabernacle.
152. 9:50And here God is just revealing that to Moses, hey, by the way, I have all these requirements
153. 9:54for the design, but I'm not requiring you to do it on your own.
154. 9:59As if you're the one that has to do it, I've already provided the resource in the form
155. 10:03of Bezelil and ultimately O'Holeab and then their team.
156. 10:08I want those of you who are listening to me right now, I want you to understand.
157. 10:12When you have a skill, when you have a vocation, you have an ability, that is not something
158. 10:17that should be relegated merely to something that's humanly acquired, especially if you
159. 10:23are a Christ follower.
160. 10:25You have your ability, you have your skill not merely to do an occupation, not merely to generate
161. 10:31revenue, but to glorify the Lord through your skillfulness, to glorify the Lord through
162. 10:36your occupation.
163. 10:39too many times when people think about serving the Lord and functioning in ministry, you
164. 10:44have visions of pulpits or collars and well, you have to speak like this to break open
165. 10:52the word of God.
166. 10:55God puts members in his body as he wills.
167. 10:59We must have an appropriate, biblically expansive understanding of what it means to serve the
168. 11:06Lord in ministry.
169. 11:08We need all hands on deck.
170. 11:10You know, one on one end, we have an over abundance of consumption and entertainment our nation.
171. 11:17That's the truth.
172. 11:18But it doesn't mean entertainment in and of itself is bad.
173. 11:20And I was having a conversation with the person and basically we're complaining about the lack
174. 11:25of quality entertainment that's not smut, you know?
175. 11:31And like, why do we have to, why do we have to imbibe certain levels of wickedness and
176. 11:35and all these other things in order to have a moment of, of, of relaxation and entertainment.
177. 11:39You know, I just have to say, well, why don't you start something?
178. 11:43Why don't you start to make the things that you desire?
179. 11:46We need more people that are willing to use their gifts.
180. 11:50And, and, and I don't want to say outside of pulpits, we need pulpits of life and righteousness.
181. 11:55One of the major deficiencies, detriments of our country today is we have too many pulpits
182. 11:59that don't have people who are willing to proclaim the full counsel of the Lord's Word.
183. 12:06So we don't need an absence of godliness and a pulpit.
184. 12:10We need more godliness and more biblical faithfulness and biblical findelity and a pulpit.
185. 12:14But we also need our culture saturated with people who are biblically faithful, who will
186. 12:18write books to the glory of the Lord, who will write scripts to the glory of the Lord,
187. 12:22who will be graphic designers to the glory of the Lord as long as you get in before A.I.
188. 12:26takes over that area.
189. 12:28Who will write music to the glory of the Lord, who will provide artistic renderings to the
190. 12:34glory of the Lord.
191. 12:38We have to get out of this mindset where all we do is complain.
192. 12:41I'm so thinking tired of, you know, all they, we had no good movie.
193. 12:45Why we write a movie?
194. 12:47Why aren't there more faithful actors and actresses and screenwriters and film writers
195. 12:54and composers?
196. 12:56Why aren't there more?
197. 13:00Even in the so-called Christian music industry, often you have unbelievers writing music.
198. 13:04They're just trying to make hits.
199. 13:05They're not trying to worship the Lord.
200. 13:07you're trying to make it to get more money out of your pockets?
201. 13:11Well, where are the believers?
202. 13:13Where are the artists who will take the Psalms and score the Psalms inspired by the Spirit
203. 13:19of God?
204. 13:22You know, all this man be pamby, all this where it's that means that it gets so self-focused
205. 13:27and flesh-focused.
206. 13:30We need more people that are willing to take the utilize, the gifts and the abilities that
207. 13:35that God has given them in addition to what is required
208. 13:39for pulpit expositors in every area of our society.
209. 13:46We need firemen that are anchored in the truth of God's word.
210. 13:49We need police officers that are anchored
211. 13:51in the truth of God's word.
212. 13:52We need nurses and physicians.
213. 13:54Just Dr. Luke in the scriptures, an example.
214. 13:58It's high time for all hands on deck.
215. 14:01This is an example right here in the text
216. 14:03where you have craftsmen who God identifies
217. 14:07as having been filled with his spirit in wisdom,
218. 14:11and in understanding, and in knowledge,
219. 14:13and all kinds of craftsmanship.
220. 14:16Some translations render the phrasing wisdom
221. 14:18and understanding as ability and intelligence.
222. 14:23That there is a God-breathed intelligence for craftsmanship.
223. 14:27You cannot tell me, the creator of the heavens and the earth,
224. 14:31the greatest artist that ever was,
225. 14:33that he cannot inspire his people
226. 14:37to be creative following the function of the Creator.
227. 14:42You can't make me believe that.
228. 14:44So if you are listening to me and you recognize
229. 14:47that God has given you ability and skill,
230. 14:50could it be that He's requiring you to surrender that to Him
231. 14:54for His glory in this hour?
232. 15:00As the world is changing around us,
233. 15:02the ministry of AFA is staying anchored in God.
234. 15:06If the Lord has gifted you to be a giver,
235. 15:08We ask that you remember AFA in your year-end giving.
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237. 15:15There's a variety of options for giving, ranging from cash gifts to stock donation to real estate.
238. 15:21Some of the more creative gifts have earlier tax deadlines, so why not contact a representative of the AFA Foundation today to discuss your year-end gift?
239. 15:31They can help you set up your donation now and make it effective by the proper date.
240. 15:36Call 800-326-4543, extension 345.
241. 15:41That's 800-326-4543, extension 345.
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243. 15:51Beat the rush by calling now 800-326-4543, extension 345.
244. 16:05Being light into the darkness,
245. 16:07this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
246. 16:11Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton,
247. 16:13third here and I'm excited to have in studio with me documentary filmmaker
248. 16:17research fellow of church and culture for the American Family Association producer
249. 16:22of award-winning documentaries The God Who Speaks in 2018 and in his image
250. 16:27delighting in God's design sorry God's plan for gender and sexuality from 2020
251. 16:32author of two books A Little 11 confronting the ideology of the
252. 16:36Revoice Movement and dangerous affirmation the threat of gay Christianity
253. 16:41My guest is none other than MD Perkins.
254. 16:44Thank you for joining me here in the program.
255. 16:45Good to be with you.
256. 16:46Yet again. Yes, sir.
257. 16:47I am delighted to have you here.
258. 16:49And in the previous segment, I was just talking about
259. 16:52the biblical precedent we have in Exodus 31
260. 16:55where the Lord identifies Bezel Hill and the Holy Ab
261. 16:58as being filled with his spirit
262. 16:59for all manner of craftsmanship,
263. 17:02which is amazing to consider.
264. 17:04And you have among your many talents,
265. 17:06as I mentioned as an author.
266. 17:08You also are a filmmaker.
267. 17:10And there's a film that is now available on
268. 17:13FHA streaming service, Culture Warrior,
269. 17:16the story of our founder, FHA's founder,
270. 17:18Brother Don Wildman, would you share a bit
271. 17:20about Culture Warrior with our audience?
272. 17:22Yeah, Culture Warrior, Don Wildman in the battle
273. 17:25for decency, it talks about the history
274. 17:27of the founding of the ministry.
275. 17:28Don's initial concerns, you know,
276. 17:31sitting down with his family one night in 1976,
277. 17:34holiday season, ready to watch something Christmas related
278. 17:37and the three networks didn't offer anything,
279. 17:40close to that, sex, violence, profanity on each of the major networks.
280. 17:45He realized at that point, not only had culture declined to a certain point where this was
281. 17:51normal and accepted and nobody really batted an eye, but he himself had been to some degree
282. 17:57complacent within this as well.
283. 17:59He was so burdened by that that it started a movement within him where he started something
284. 18:05called the Turn the Television Off Week, which was just him and his local church, but then,
285. 18:11you know, Don being Don, he recognized that this wasn't just something for him.
286. 18:15This was something that could generate a conversation much broader than just him and his local church.
287. 18:21So he sent out a press release, got a lot of other people talking about it, and that's
288. 18:25where the National Federation for Decency was born there in 1977, which later changed its
289. 18:31name to American Family Association.
290. 18:33So that's where we trace our roots.
291. 18:35And so dealing with television,
292. 18:38kind of activism on the front of confronting corporations
293. 18:42and what they were putting their money behind
294. 18:44in terms of advertising on these shows.
295. 18:46And then that transitioning into a concern
296. 18:49about pornography proliferation in our society
297. 18:52and the homosexual agenda and all sorts of other things
298. 18:55that we faced in the last, well, I'd say a couple of decades.
299. 18:59I mean, really the last 50 years.
300. 19:01Yeah, yeah, it's it man.
301. 19:03What a story and I know I learned some things
302. 19:05I didn't know about Bretherdown.
303. 19:07I joined AFA after Bretherdown was no longer functioning
304. 19:12at the leadership of the ministry.
305. 19:14I missed him by a short amount of time.
306. 19:18So there were things I learned about it.
307. 19:19When people tune in to this documentary,
308. 19:24what should they expect to draw from it?
309. 19:27Well, first of all, be warned that there are some strong imagery
310. 19:32and things within it because we are talking
311. 19:33about these sensitive topics and we have to present,
312. 19:36I felt like it was important for us to present the case
313. 19:39for why Don stand mattered.
314. 19:41Because so often he was misrepresented in the media
315. 19:44as just a reactionary, a fundamentalist, a funny duddy,
316. 19:48kind of culturally speaking,
317. 19:49you're just always mad about something.
318. 19:52But I felt like it was important for us to realize
319. 19:56where these things came from and the genesis of them,
320. 19:59and even now the greater expressions
321. 20:02of these things in society.
322. 20:03So what you can expect visually is it's a narrative story.
323. 20:08It's not just a memorial or a slideshow about dawn
324. 20:12and kind of highlights from his life.
325. 20:14It's trying to explain the history
326. 20:16of how we got here as a nation
327. 20:18and how one man built this organization
328. 20:22in order to stand against a lot of these cultural forces
329. 20:24that were happening.
330. 20:25So there's a lot of archival footage.
331. 20:27It moves very quickly in terms of its pacing.
332. 20:31You see a lot of different flash points
333. 20:33in terms of very recent American history.
334. 20:36Some things you may remember,
335. 20:37some things you might have forgotten about
336. 20:39that have happened in the last 40 or 50 years.
337. 20:42And how can people watch the film?
338. 20:45Go to culturewarrior.movie, that's a website.
339. 20:47Culturewarrior.movie, you can watch the movie for free
340. 20:50right now and we're encouraging people to do that.
341. 20:53You can also, if you want to give a donation
342. 20:55and be able to receive a physical copy of the DVD
343. 20:59and what we're calling the Culture Warrior Kit
344. 21:00that includes some other things with that,
345. 21:02you can do that through the website as well.
346. 21:04Culturewarrior.movie.
347. 21:06And you mentioned, and one of the things I learned,
348. 21:09well, this is not something that I learned,
349. 21:11but the film punctuated for me
350. 21:15that in many ways, man, Brother Donald was prophetic.
351. 21:18He was out in front a lot of the issues that we're having now.
352. 21:21he saw them back in the 70s and in the early 80s.
353. 21:25When you worked on this film and went through all the archival footage,
354. 21:29and I know because you and I worked together a lot of it,
355. 21:32what were some of the things that maybe you hadn't realized that
356. 21:38impacted you through your work putting this film together?
357. 21:42I was so shocked at how expansive his vision of these things,
358. 21:50the interconnection between things was.
359. 21:56In one of those early interviews that he gives,
360. 21:59one of the TV producers goes after him and says,
361. 22:02well, you're going after my TV show,
362. 22:04but there's pornography in the newsstand.
363. 22:08And you're not saying anything about that.
364. 22:09Well, it was more like,
365. 22:10we'll just give him a second and he'll start to.
366. 22:13Because the concern about TV was not merely
367. 22:18not merely that there was sex and violence on television, anybody could see that.
368. 22:22But what Don recognized was that there was a worldview component underneath the presentation
369. 22:28of these things.
370. 22:29So it wasn't just that there was sex and violence and objectionable content.
371. 22:32It was that they were presenting an entirely different vision of what sex and sexuality
372. 22:37was.
373. 22:38They were presenting a different vision of what family should or could be.
374. 22:42They were presenting a different vision of what Christianity or religious people were supposed
375. 22:47to be like and suddenly everybody on TV is a secular person,
376. 22:51has no, he would often say,
377. 22:54a majority of the country is religious,
378. 22:56but you wouldn't know it from watching TV
379. 22:58because nobody ever goes to church
380. 22:59or talks about God or anything like that,
381. 23:01except for the rare occasion where there's a liberal priest
382. 23:06who tells you that everything's good
383. 23:08or that God loves everybody.
384. 23:09And so these kinds of things that he was starting to bring up,
385. 23:12I think it was really interesting to me
386. 23:16to begin to see, because I think, honestly Abe,
387. 23:21I think people have been given a vision
388. 23:25of what Don and AFA is that was completely driven
389. 23:29by the media misrepresentation of him.
390. 23:32And likewise, kind of the Christian involvement
391. 23:35in the culture wars and speaking out
392. 23:37on some of these concerning social issues,
393. 23:39has been colored so much by the secular media's
394. 23:43depiction of these things,
395. 23:45in the way that they want to carry the conversation.
396. 23:48But, you know, Don had several statements
397. 23:50throughout his time in ministry
398. 23:53that point to a larger spiritual emphasis and concern.
399. 23:57And, you know, around AFA, we often talk about it as God
400. 24:00is not called us to be successful,
401. 24:02He's called us to be faithful.
402. 24:04Well, I think that idea is not something
403. 24:06that the media ever picked up on at all.
404. 24:08This concept that it wasn't just about Christians
405. 24:11trying to gain power for themselves,
406. 24:13like we're often told is what we're supposed to be,
407. 24:16what we are supposedly all about, you know,
408. 24:19when we're talking about political or social issues,
409. 24:22is just Christians trying to gain power.
410. 24:24Well, not at all, it's us trying to bear witness
411. 24:26to the truth and speak for righteousness
412. 24:29and loving our neighbors in the midst of that,
413. 24:31because what is good for society as a whole
414. 24:34is good for our neighbor,
415. 24:35because we're following God's plan and God's will.
416. 24:38So we're trying to call their nation
417. 24:40word, righteousness and truth, which is good for everybody.
418. 24:44And so I think I learned a lot about how to speak about those things in,
419. 24:49I think a more clarifying way that cuts to the heart of some of the matter rather
420. 24:53than just kind of following along or combating kind of the,
421. 24:57the narrative that's on the surface.
422. 25:00Yeah. I mean, that the, the castigation and the caricature
423. 25:05presentation of Brother Don and what AFA is, um, really,
424. 25:09I view it as a rhetorical attack.
425. 25:16It's an effort to undermine and to nullify
426. 25:19the significance of the work that Brother Don pioneered
427. 25:21and that we're still carrying on to this day
428. 25:24because if you accurately represent
429. 25:27what is being presented,
430. 25:29it makes it harder to counteract.
431. 25:31I never forget, and I want to,
432. 25:32this is an anecdote, but it's going to a question.
433. 25:35I'll never forget, I was in Washington, DC
434. 25:38when Jack Phillips' case went before the US Supreme Court.
435. 25:42And I ended up doing several interviews with news outlets.
436. 25:47And there's one I did with the Washington Post.
437. 25:51And when they were interviewing me, they asked a question.
438. 25:54They attempted to present Jack Phillips.
439. 25:56What he did, his stand, as it was just a flat denial of service
440. 26:01to the homosexuals who came into his Mass Beach case shop.
441. 26:04And I said, oh no, this is not a denial of service case
442. 26:06at all because denial of service
443. 26:08goes on the one category in Supreme Court precedent.
444. 26:11This is a case about First Amendment and religious freedom
445. 26:14because Jack Phillips welcomed his customers
446. 26:18to buy anything in his store.
447. 26:20He welcomed them to shop in his store.
448. 26:23The only denial that was offered
449. 26:26was a declining of the invitation
450. 26:28to make a custom cake that violated his religious beliefs,
451. 26:32which is something that he had done consistently.
452. 26:34He declined invitations to make custom cakes
453. 26:38disparaging homosexual people.
454. 26:40He's declined invitation to make custom cakes,
455. 26:42celebrating divorce.
456. 26:43He's declined to make custom cakes,
457. 26:44celebrating demonic things in Halloween.
458. 26:47So this is something he's done repeatedly
459. 26:49because as his store is named,
460. 26:52the masterpiece cake shop that his only conviction
461. 26:56is that he wants to honor the Lord
462. 26:57according to what the scripture says.
463. 26:59The reporter looked at me and said,
464. 27:01"'I had no idea about any of that.
465. 27:04"'I didn't know that.'"
466. 27:06Now, ask me, did he print what I said?
467. 27:09Not a peep.
468. 27:11Right.
469. 27:12Not a peep of what I said was included in his writing
470. 27:14because the publication, regardless of their individual
471. 27:16reporter or not, was not interested in accurately
472. 27:19representing what Jack Phillips convictions were,
473. 27:21what they were interested in, is propagandizing
474. 27:23to their audience.
475. 27:24And so I'm saying that to say, when you see the caricatures
476. 27:29offered by Brother Don and what AFA is, what AFA does,
477. 27:34Do you see a similar tactic being employed with a rinse and repeat mechanism in an effort
478. 27:39to undermine the legitimacy of the work because it would resonate with the people that they
479. 27:44knew truly what was happening?
480. 27:46Oh, absolutely.
481. 27:47And there's actually a, we didn't get to dive into this in nearly as much detail as we wanted
482. 27:53to in terms of the media depiction of Don and what came to be, I guess, categorized as his
483. 27:58hostility, quote unquote, toward the media.
484. 28:01that that hostility was because they were constantly misquoting him, misrepresenting
485. 28:06him.
486. 28:07Even, I mean, so on the DVD, there's going to be a number of special features, including
487. 28:12one that goes into this topic where Don recounts the story of a Time Magazine reporter calling
488. 28:18him and getting a quote from him that then they misquote, even though he had repeatedly
489. 28:27tried to clarify exactly what he said.
490. 28:29And the reporter said that they were running
491. 28:32with the correction.
492. 28:34And then when it came out in print,
493. 28:37it was not the correction.
494. 28:38It was the original misquote of Don.
495. 28:41And so he at that point decided,
496. 28:43I'm done talking to you guys
497. 28:45because you're never gonna treat this fairly.
498. 28:48Don's connection with the media began,
499. 28:51I guess a little bit as a novelty thing.
500. 28:53They treated him as sort of,
501. 28:55well, what does this guy do?
502. 28:56and this is kind of interesting, but then once he started to garner support and success in those
503. 29:02initial campaigns against Sears was one of them and Ford and there were some early ones that about
504. 29:09advertising on the like three's company and some of these early TV shows. And then once they saw that
505. 29:15he was actually getting success with talking with these advertisers, then it became a lot more hostile
506. 29:21toward him, like, who is this guy?
507. 29:22And it wasn't nearly as much as a curiosity piece.
508. 29:27It began more and more to be an attack,
509. 29:29to be a propagandizing kind of effort against him and his work.
510. 29:33And that consistent mischaracterization
511. 29:36and his frustration with it is one of the things
512. 29:39that led to the pursuit of the American Family Radio Network.
513. 29:42Because he wanted to eliminate a middleman
514. 29:44between our ability to communicate with the American people,
515. 29:48to communicate directly to them
516. 29:50without it having to be filtered through these clearly biased and that's a euphemism hostile
517. 29:56outlets. Would you speak a little bit to that?
518. 30:00Yeah, so I mean from the beginning the National Federation for Decency had a newsletter and
519. 30:06so that was the main point of contact but of course if you're working in print media you're
520. 30:11always several weeks behind at best in terms of being able to speak directly to immediate
521. 30:18issues or current events and things like that.
522. 30:21And so Don saw the real value of having our microphones.
523. 30:26That's how Buddy Smith described it when he was on the board, when Don was making the
524. 30:30pitch for a radio network and owning a radio station was that Buddy, these would be our
525. 30:35microphones.
526. 30:36And so we can, no one can come and turn them off.
527. 30:41And there was a particular kind of window that the FCC had opened in terms of being able
528. 30:46to from a technological point of view expand the radio network and build up a radio network
529. 30:53without building a lot of brick and mortar stations and we talk about that a little bit
530. 30:57in the documentary.
531. 30:58But yeah, the impetus behind it though was being able to speak freely and having that free speech
532. 31:05platform interestingly enough, the hot topic, but you kind of almost had to have your private
533. 31:10platform in order to have the free speech platform just because these publicly owned airways
534. 31:15because we're not really open to you as a Christian or as a conservative thinker on these
535. 31:19issues.
536. 31:20And so that's very interesting.
537. 31:21And I also know this is amazing just to consider even just having this conversation with you
538. 31:26right now and watching the film, it's evident you mentioned the interconnected nature of
539. 31:31a lot of the issues that were happening.
540. 31:33You can you get a real sense of how Brother Dom became increasingly aware that this really
541. 31:40was a worldview class that was happening being played out before us on many different
542. 31:45fronts, you know, television, advertising, things of that nature.
543. 31:47But when you get right down to it, it was a worldview class that was happening.
544. 31:52And Christians needed to not only engage in this worldview clash, but to prevail
545. 31:58for the sake of the gospel and for our neighbors.
546. 32:00Yeah.
547. 32:00One of the major themes I want people to take away from the documentary is the
548. 32:04recognition that the culture war is spiritual warfare.
549. 32:07And so there are a number of spiritual things that are happening in the midst of
550. 32:12of all this. It seems like ideas. It seems like people just kind of being angry about issues,
551. 32:17wanting to feel more comfortable. But really there's a deep spiritual component underneath
552. 32:20it that we need to be aware of.
553. 32:22CultureWarrior.movie is the website.
554. 32:24CultureWarrior.movie.
555. 32:25CultureWarrior.movie. I wholeheartedly recommend that you would go to the site, watch it. It's
556. 32:32a free film, watch it with your family, friends, loved ones, as MD pointed out. You need to
557. 32:38understand that there are some images that are that are graphic because we do
558. 32:42nothing it's not overt hardcore pornography nothing like that right but
559. 32:47there are legitimate portrayals of the depths of the spiritual war that
560. 32:51Brother Don took head-on culture warrior dot movie go and check it out
561. 32:55Hamilton Quarter podcast and one-minute commentaries are available at
562. 33:10AFR.net back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio
563. 33:15Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third here, I'm in
564. 33:19studio with MD Perkins, filmmaker and author. We were talking about the latest
565. 33:25film MD has been involved in shaping, which is culture warrior, the documentary
566. 33:31film that tells the story of AFA's founder, brother Don Wildman and the
567. 33:36trajectory starting with the National Federation for decency with turn your
568. 33:41TV's off week that has grown to be what we now know to be the American Family Association.
569. 33:47And MD, I wanted to take this conversation because here now, culture warrior, you've been involved
570. 33:53in shaping the God who speaks, which if you haven't seen the God who speaks, you have to
571. 33:59see it.
572. 34:00For those who have any questions about the authority of God's word, the historicity of God's word,
573. 34:06verify ability, the inerrancy of God's word.
574. 34:10The God who speaks is a film that you can,
575. 34:12it's a one-stop shop that will help to equip you
576. 34:16to understand all of those concepts I just mentioned.
577. 34:19And really the cumulative impact will be a boldness
578. 34:22in your ability to stand firmly when you hold up
579. 34:24your Bibles that you can say without a doubt
580. 34:27that this is truly the inspired Word of God
581. 34:30without any hesitation or any flinching.
582. 34:32Also, it is in the lighting in God's plan for gender and sexuality, which is similar to Brother
583. 34:39Don and I feel like that film was also prophetic, leading for the conversations we're having now.
584. 34:43I want to invite you to share a bit why it's so important for us to have Christ followers who
585. 34:53are involved in the arts in particular in movie filmmaking because of the potent medium that it
586. 35:01is and how effective it can be as a tool for advancing God's kingdom.
587. 35:05Well we live in a world of images and increasingly video is kind of that primary means.
588. 35:13I mean that's where people spend so much of their time.
589. 35:18Not just their spare free time for entertainment purposes but in terms of information gathering
590. 35:24and learning how to do stuff even just like how do I fix my broken toilet.
591. 35:30you go to YouTube and you watch somebody talk about how to fix it.
592. 35:34So being involved at the level of creating these kinds of projects, I went to film school,
593. 35:44I've loved movies since I was a young kid, and when I was going to film school, I wanted
594. 35:51to, as a Christian, I was trying to understand what does it mean to be a Christian and a filmmaker.
595. 36:00I didn't know if that meant being a Christian filmmaker,
596. 36:03quote unquote, like I'm making movies that are directly
597. 36:05Christian based and its themes and interests and all of that.
598. 36:09But I knew that I wanted to be,
599. 36:12I wanted to do things that were going to be Christ honoring
600. 36:15and being able to integrate my biblical worldview
601. 36:18into the kinds of stories and movies that I was telling.
602. 36:22And I honestly wasn't sure how to do that.
603. 36:25And no one really gave me a whole lot of direction on that
604. 36:28either.
605. 36:29to pastors or campus ministers and things and they were just kind of telling me, well, you
606. 36:36know, you should do something like Lord of the Rings. That was kind of the best they could
607. 36:40come up with with some kind of metaphorical or allegorical kind of thing. But thankfully
608. 36:46in God's good providence, He brought me to AFA and has brought me here and being able to
609. 36:53work within what I think of as theological filmmaking and even more broadly than that,
610. 36:59I think of Christian filmmaking more as providential filmmaking, that we are making movies built
611. 37:04around how God leads us.
612. 37:06So that's the process.
613. 37:09There's two different things when it comes to filmmaking.
614. 37:14There's the end product, but there's also the process by which you get there.
615. 37:18And one of the really disturbing things that I've learned over the years is that even those
616. 37:23who are engaged in the quote unquote Christian film industry, the way that those movies are
617. 37:28made is not necessarily Christian in terms of their interactions with people, the way that
618. 37:34they treat one another, the scheming and pride and self-righteousness and arrogance that's
619. 37:39happening behind the scenes or by those creators.
620. 37:42I've heard of stories of people being treated just very wickedly on Christian film sets and
621. 37:51things like that.
622. 37:52So, you know, for me, it's a process where you want to,
623. 37:57you want both things to be there.
624. 37:58I wanna honor Christ in the end result,
625. 38:01but I wanna honor Christ in the way that we get there.
626. 38:04And so working with AFA and being able to be given
627. 38:09the resources and the time and the staff
628. 38:12to kind of work through those things as a team
629. 38:15has really been extremely helpful for me.
630. 38:19And of course, having the stability there
631. 38:22to be able to produce these kinds of works.
632. 38:24You know, that doesn't just happen.
633. 38:27Being able to have the support of a ministry like AFA is huge.
634. 38:30Obviously, I mean, they're footing the bill for it,
635. 38:32but they're also allowing time for the work
636. 38:35to actually materialize, because that's one thing
637. 38:38that very often happens is people rush through something
638. 38:41because they have a nugget of an idea
639. 38:43or they feel like they have to get this out
640. 38:45because it's a timely issue.
641. 38:47Well, that doesn't mean that we should rush through it
642. 38:49just to get it out there.
643. 38:52Sometimes with anything artistic, it's a complex process
644. 38:57where things take time to build,
645. 38:59you need time to think through carefully what you're doing
646. 39:02to check and make sure that you're being factual
647. 39:05in your information,
648. 39:06especially if you're dealing in the documentary film world.
649. 39:09And so there's a lot of different aspects
650. 39:10to the production process that we try and deal with here
651. 39:15at American Family Studios.
652. 39:17I mean, it's your reference to theological filmmaking
653. 39:21I forgot to mention that you are an elder at your local church, which is just phenomenal
654. 39:27having that ecclesiastical foundation and utilizing that to engage in filmmaking.
655. 39:36It's so powerful.
656. 39:37I mean, all three of these films are just mentioned.
657. 39:39You really need to see them all because they are theologically grounding and they are equipping.
658. 39:45You know, I mentioned the God who speaks about the reference to the word of God and then
659. 39:49the lighting and God's is not for sexuality and in gender
660. 39:52and in his image, if you've had challenges
661. 39:56with responding to questions on these fronts,
662. 39:58you have family members struggling in particular areas,
663. 40:01this is a film that will not only inform you,
664. 40:04but it will equip you to be able to respond to questions,
665. 40:08even the way that it's laid out,
666. 40:09providing a theological founding first,
667. 40:11and then going in and providing the scientific background,
668. 40:16you know, what is, you know, a vaginal plastic, you know, what are all these things? What is it?
669. 40:21And then having testimony of people which you'll never get from mainstream
670. 40:25immediate sources where you have people who succumb to these ideologies and who have come out of them,
671. 40:31you know, it's amazing because brilliantly laid out and it is powerfully impacting,
672. 40:37instructive and equipping. And cultural warriors is the same way. When you describe this theological
673. 40:46filmmaking, how is that distinct from other types of filmmaking?
674. 40:52Well, so that's a great question because when we think about films or art in general, most
675. 40:59art is built around subtlety.
676. 41:02And it's about kind of the nuance of expression and leaving people with a lot of possible
677. 41:10responses based on that expression.
678. 41:13Intentionally.
679. 41:14Yes.
680. 41:15I mean, of course, there's beauty in that.
681. 41:17I mean, poetry isn't poetry of its very direct and concrete,
682. 41:22but at the same time, when you're speaking truth
683. 41:26and you're talking about things that are
684. 41:28of eternal significance, I can't be vague.
685. 41:31I can't just kind of hint or imply at certain things.
686. 41:37I have to speak truthfully to those issues.
687. 41:40And so being able to find a way to speak honestly
688. 41:43and truthfully in a way that is clear and direct and profound,
689. 41:47and being able to draw people to that greater source of truth
690. 41:51in scripture that God has given us,
691. 41:55while at the same time being able to engage the emotions
692. 42:01and being drawn in in a certain way,
693. 42:03that's a delicate balance to really strike sometimes,
694. 42:07because I mean, we faced it when we had the God who speaks,
695. 42:10because that whole movie is basically a systematic,
696. 42:16theological unpacking of the doctrine of the scripture.
697. 42:21And so that's a very abstract concept.
698. 42:23How do we express that visually?
699. 42:26And so beginning to think through,
700. 42:28well, one of the things I wanted to do
701. 42:30was point people to the reality of this.
702. 42:33So how do I do that?
703. 42:36Well, we can find actual,
704. 42:37We can show the history of the manuscript tradition,
705. 42:41so going and filming a lot of old manuscripts of the Bible,
706. 42:44going as far back as we can up to the modern day.
707. 42:48And we can also film where these events
708. 42:51actually took place in scripture.
709. 42:53So we went to Israel and filmed a lot of the landscapes
710. 42:56and sites that are connected and associated
711. 42:59with those Bible stories, where these things actually happened,
712. 43:03so that you then begin to have an aesthetic context
713. 43:07for the historicity of the Bible.
714. 43:10And so it was bringing those two things together
715. 43:12that I always felt like it would work.
716. 43:14I had a sense that it would work out
717. 43:17because I just know the kind of the cinematic process
718. 43:20and going through it.
719. 43:21But it did take some convincing on some of the others here.
720. 43:25One of the other producers on the project,
721. 43:29he was not fully convinced at first
722. 43:31that we would be able to have a compelling visual documentary.
723. 43:35He knew that the content was going to be strong,
724. 43:38but he wasn't sure that it would visually communicate
725. 43:40what I needed to.
726. 43:41And you do those two elements,
727. 43:44and then when you add in the music,
728. 43:45that begins to elevate the emotional experience
729. 43:49of watching it.
730. 43:49And music is very important to me in all of these movies.
731. 43:52B.J. Davis is our composer.
732. 43:55He's a Christian.
733. 43:57I've got a really good working relationship with him.
734. 44:00And I come from a background, I love film music.
735. 44:02I love listening to soundtracks, film scores.
736. 44:05started with Indiana Jones and Star Wars and those great John William scores and
737. 44:09it's moved into all kinds of enjoyment of a lot of other kind of film music but
738. 44:13being able to bring music in to elevate or to guide emotional responses or to
739. 44:19to heighten a sense of certain things at different points. I mean that's a
740. 44:23that's another aspect of the craft that we're that we're always trying to bring
741. 44:27in and so when people watch a movie like Culture Warrior, which you can do at
742. 44:32culturewarrior.movie, go watch it for free. But when you watch a movie like that, I hope
743. 44:36that you will engage with it and recognize the way that music is working here. Because
744. 44:42with CultureWarrior, one of the things we wanted to do, I mean, this movie said in the 70s, 80s,
745. 44:46and 90s. So I wanted to have music that tied in aesthetically with the music of that time.
746. 44:52So you hear a lot of synthesizer music or music that mirrors some of the, like when we're talking
747. 44:58about some of the legal battles and things.
748. 45:00I'm using music that's reminiscent of some of the legal movies that were happening in the
749. 45:0690s, the John Grisham thrillers and things like that.
750. 45:09The music is aesthetically similar to things you would have heard in mainstream movies at
751. 45:14that time.
752. 45:15So I'm taking the treasures of Egypt for ourselves, kind of on some of the stuff, and redeeming
753. 45:21it in a way.
754. 45:23There's a lot of different aspects like that that we're constantly doing in the documentary
755. 45:27projects that we're working on.
756. 45:28And I mean, you know, it may sound self-serving, but it was very well done.
757. 45:33I mean, it puts you in that era, you know, it's not like the firm, you know, Tom Cruise
758. 45:39film.
759. 45:40Yeah.
760. 45:41It was, it was very well done.
761. 45:43You know, we'll have a few minutes left.
762. 45:44In addition to the work you do filmmaking, you've written several just powerful, powerful
763. 45:49books, which, you know, they're not vague at all.
764. 45:57know they are they are direct on the nose but necessarily so. What moved you to want to do
765. 46:02the extensive research you did for these books but then to put this these works in print.
766. 46:09It was really the desire for clarity on the issue because in doing the research
767. 46:14related to in his image as we were working on that project just overwhelming burden and concern
768. 46:22that people were not being clear on this.
769. 46:24And so when you began to see the issues of the
770. 46:27Re-Voice Movement creeping into evangelical circles,
771. 46:30Southern Baptist, PCA, Presbyterians,
772. 46:33Church of the Nazarene, a lot of different church groups
773. 46:36beginning to wrestle with the idea of quote unquote
774. 46:39gay, celibate Christianity and how this is okay
775. 46:43to take on a gay identity and to say that I'm a gay Christian
776. 46:46but I'm not practicing the actual act of homosexuality
777. 46:51because I'm remaining celibate.
778. 46:53And that sounds like a nice middle ground for some people.
779. 46:56And immediately it struck me as this does not sound right.
780. 47:00I'm not completely sure why it doesn't,
781. 47:02but I want to get to the bottom of it and figure that out.
782. 47:06And so that's what gave rise to writing a little 11,
783. 47:09which you can find for free online,
784. 47:12which deals with all of the details of the Re-Voice movement.
785. 47:15It goes to the first sources of what these guys were saying,
786. 47:17what their arguments were,
787. 47:19Because that was, you know, at that point in 2018 is kind of when that started to come to the surface in 2019, 2020, 2021 is when a lot of that controversy was roiling in the church.
788. 47:31And so then taking some of that and being able to connect it with the larger issues of the gay affirming church movement was how dangerous affirmation came together.
789. 47:41So just the desire for clarity on these issues
790. 47:45was such a burden that I was growing in.
791. 47:49And so the Lord gave me opportunity to put those works out.
792. 47:53That's amazing.
793. 47:54I know your works are one of the things
794. 47:56that the Lord used to help our sister Rosario Butterfield
795. 47:59to rescind her previous affirmation
796. 48:02for a pronoun, hospitality,
797. 48:04so it's just a profound man.
798. 48:08What a treasure.
799. 48:09Thank you so much for all of your hard work.
800. 48:11CultureWarrior.movie is where you can go to get the film,
801. 48:16your books you mentioned,
802. 48:18a little 11 is available online.
803. 48:20How about dangerous affirmation?
804. 48:21Where you can go find it?
805. 48:22Dangerousaffirmation.net, you can go and buy the book there.
806. 48:26Powerful works, I wholeheartedly commend them to you,
807. 48:29recommend you add them to your library,
808. 48:31lots of clarity, lots of research.
809. 48:33You will be thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly equipped
810. 48:36to contend on this, on these fronts by reading these works.
811. 48:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
812. 48:45Family Association or American Family Radio.