Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by ECPA-bestselling American author, Dillon Burroughs

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
8. 0:23Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28and now the Hamilton Corner. Well hello everybody Alex McFarland here welcome to the Hamilton Corner
11. 0:37on the American Family Radio Network. It is my great privilege to sit in today for attorney,
12. 0:43pastor, broadcaster, journalist, Abe Hamilton the third and it's been a great privilege. I'd do that
13. 0:49on a fairly regular basis and we have got a fantastic show today. You're going to meet a friend of
14. 0:55many years, a scholar and author, you very, very likely have read his work, Dylan Burrows,
15. 1:03and I'll bring him up here in just a moment.
16. 1:05He's also got some things about his Christian journey that will inspire you beyond belief,
17. 1:10I assure you.
18. 1:12But there's so much in the news, so much to talk about even as we do the show today, there's
19. 1:17a lot in the news that reflects what I would call the clash of worldviews going on in our
20. 1:23culture.
21. 1:24are in a cultural clash of worldviews.
22. 1:29And I would be remiss if I did not mention also that we are getting closer and closer to
23. 1:34my favorite time of the year, Christmas.
24. 1:36We celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.
25. 1:38And I want to share a verse that will relate to all the things we talk about tonight.
26. 1:44But in Acts 4 verse 12, the New Testament book of Acts, it says, there is no other name
27. 1:51given among men under heaven whereby we must be saved.
28. 1:54Only the name of Jesus.
29. 1:56Christ is unique.
30. 1:58And Christmas we celebrate the birth of Jesus,
31. 2:00the most significant life in human history,
32. 2:03certainly the most unique life,
33. 2:05because Jesus Christ, the Son of God,
34. 2:08the second member of the Trinity, God the Son,
35. 2:11he left to have and he came to earth to be our example,
36. 2:15of course, to fulfill the will of the Father,
37. 2:17fulfill the righteousness of the law.
38. 2:19But Jesus was born to die.
39. 2:22He went to Calvary's cross,
40. 2:24He died on the cross, paid our sin debt.
41. 2:27And by putting our faith in Jesus Christ,
42. 2:29we're forgiven, we're saved.
43. 2:31I hope you've done that.
44. 2:32And Christmas is a great time to reflect
45. 2:35and think about the uniqueness of Jesus.
46. 2:38You know, I was doing a study for one of our programs
47. 2:42about Christmas hymns.
48. 2:43I really love the hymns of Christmas.
49. 2:46And would you believe, as far as my research has led me,
50. 2:49may be the first ever Christmas hymn was composed about 310 AD.
51. 2:55And this is amazing, 1700 years ago.
52. 2:58And yet it is so relevant.
53. 3:00The name of this song, written in 310,
54. 3:04was Jesus' light of all the nations.
55. 3:08And there's a lyric in there.
56. 3:10It's been translated into English.
57. 3:13And it says, just as the magi bowed before Jesus,
58. 3:19we bow before Jesus, and every family worships Him and praises God for the gospel.
59. 3:27Now that sounds very modern, doesn't it?
60. 3:29And yet, 1,700 years ago, they were praising God for the birth of the Savior, Jesus Christ.
61. 3:36I love to think about such things here at Christmas, and really always.
62. 3:40Well, somebody who's given his life to really proclaiming and defending the biblical worldview,
63. 3:47He's my friend Dr. Dylan Burris and we've been friends for a long time.
64. 3:51Now think about this.
65. 3:53He has written or authored or co-authored over 40 books.
66. 3:57He has written personally pinned and published over a thousand articles on the Gospel, Biblical
67. 4:04worldview, apologetics, defending the faith.
68. 4:08He's done so much I could really expend the entire program talking about his resume.
69. 4:13I wanted to bring you on and just talk about some of the issues in the culture today.
70. 4:19Without further ado, Dr. Dylan Burrows, welcome to the American Family Radio Network.
71. 4:25Well, thank you, Alex.
72. 4:26And it's a pleasure to be with you as always.
73. 4:28We've had so much history together in ministry and in communicating on some of these important
74. 4:33Christian worldviews.
75. 4:34And I love that you started with a Christmas hymn and there are so many that we can say
76. 4:38are our favorites.
77. 4:39And I think of mine, of O come, all ye faithful.
78. 4:43you know, that joy that we have a Christmas time.
79. 4:45And we're in that season.
80. 4:47And I hope that those listening are encouraged
81. 4:49by the birth of Jesus and truly celebrating
82. 4:52the real reason of the season.
83. 4:54And look forward to discussing our faith today
84. 4:56and how it impacts even those that we spent time with
85. 4:58the holidays and as we're out shopping
86. 5:00and preparing for this time of year.
87. 5:02And indeed, I wanna talk about Islam
88. 5:05because Islam has risen so much in the culture.
89. 5:08And Dylan, I want, if you would,
90. 5:10you would give us some pointers on how to talk to Muslims about Jesus. But before that,
91. 5:17give us a little bit of your journey, how God led you to where you are and your work in apologetics,
92. 5:24biblical worldview. But bring us up to speed on the Dylan Burroughs story.
93. 5:29No, that's great. I'm glad to have an opportunity to share a little bit. For me, my story started
94. 5:34in small town Indiana. I was a person who was raised in the church and as a teenager, I
95. 5:39had a strong spiritual experience where I came to know Christ.
96. 5:42In college, I attended Indiana State,
97. 5:44home of Larry Bird from basketball fame.
98. 5:47Oh yeah.
99. 5:48And it was during that time that at first began to meet people
100. 5:50from a Muslim background and hear how their beliefs
101. 5:53were different from mine, began to study the writings
102. 5:56of people like Josh McDowell, a common friend of ours
103. 5:58who I would later meet and other people
104. 6:00who had defended the faith before me
105. 6:02and realized that there's some common ground there,
106. 6:04but there are also many differences.
107. 6:06We'll talk about those, but that really set me on a journey
108. 6:09to want to know as much about my faith as possible.
109. 6:12It led to a calling to serve in ministry.
110. 6:15I would later go to Dallas, Texas,
111. 6:17and study at Dallas Theological Seminary,
112. 6:19some of the top Christian scholars of our generation,
113. 6:22and then serve in church ministry
114. 6:23and later in apologetics,
115. 6:25where I spent many years at the John Ankerberg show
116. 6:27as a writer now in other ministries and organizations.
117. 6:30And through it all,
118. 6:31what you realize is that people are searching
119. 6:33for spiritual truth.
120. 6:34They're hungry for answers,
121. 6:36but too much of the time,
122. 6:37they either don't know the information,
123. 6:39or they don't know how to sort the information.
124. 6:41Now we're in a generation where you can go to Google,
125. 6:43or you can go to AI and say,
126. 6:45Chet GPT, tell me about this.
127. 6:47But you're not sure which information to believe,
128. 6:49which information is accurate.
129. 6:51So there's that calling and that desire
130. 6:54that people have to search for the truth,
131. 6:56but also a concern about what is the truth
132. 6:59and how to distinguish right from wrong
133. 7:00and discern those issues and our times on these issues,
134. 7:03like sharing your faith with Muslims and other topics
135. 7:07that we'll get into.
136. 7:07But for me, that is a key calling to mind is to help people discover the truth and to discern
137. 7:12the truth.
138. 7:13Indeed, you know, Dylan, I think about my own journey when I was a 21-year-old college
139. 7:19student at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro.
140. 7:23And it was during that period of my life that I got saved and got a personal relationship
141. 7:28with Jesus Christ.
142. 7:29And very shortly thereafter, I'm like three days into my Christian faith.
143. 7:35I discovered books by Josh McDowell.
144. 7:37Part of the reason, folks, I want to encourage you to be a reader.
145. 7:42By that, I mean, build a good Christian library.
146. 7:47A lot of research by psychologists have shown that we assimilate and we recall more when
147. 7:55we're handling a book.
148. 7:58I love to recommend books that have shaped my life, Angie and I, our big readers were big
149. 8:05believers in building a Christian library in our home.
150. 8:09Who are some of the authors that you mentioned, of course, Josh.
151. 8:13He is just this paragon of apologetics.
152. 8:16I very much benefited from the writings of Norm Geisler.
153. 8:20He's in heaven now.
154. 8:22But give us, if somebody were beginning to put their toe in the water about biblical worldview
155. 8:28and apologetics, who were some of the authors you would recommend?
156. 8:31Oh my goodness, there are so many.
157. 8:34I mean, the classics like C.S. Lewis, of course, some of his nonfiction works.
158. 8:37If you only know Narnia, you're missing out on half of what C.S. Lewis has to offer.
159. 8:42His book, Mirror Christianity is a classic that I think everybody should read and understand
160. 8:47where he's coming from from a secular background into a Christian background with an intellectualism
161. 8:53that is still not matched by most books today. But there's so many good resources. Now we
162. 8:58have an embarrassment of riches, right? We have all the things from Lee Strobel with the
163. 9:03case for Christ and the books he's done. You have Gary Habermas, who's done some of the
164. 9:07most phenomenal work on the resurrection and the evidence for Jesus coming out of the tomb.
165. 9:14And the list just goes on and on.
166. 9:15And we could spend the entire time talking about the top
167. 9:19apologetic Christian books.
168. 9:20But I think some of the ones for me
169. 9:21that were the most impactful were, like you said,
170. 9:24Josh McDowell's evidence that demands a verdict.
171. 9:27It's gone through so many different versions.
172. 9:28And now as Sun Shon has updated the most recent version,
173. 9:31if you don't have evidence that demands a verdict,
174. 9:34get that one, it'll answer so many of your questions.
175. 9:37And then a great Christian ministry,
176. 9:38many people are into today who look for these answers
177. 9:41is got questions.
178. 9:42got questions that org is a top Christian question and answer ministry and they also
179. 9:47have a whole series of books that take some of their top questions and put that in written
180. 9:51format and I would certainly encourage you to check out those as well as a great resource.
181. 9:55Indeed, indeed. Well, we're talking if you're just tuning in to Dylan Burrows, a longtime
182. 10:01friend and colleague in the apologetics world, Alex McFarland here. I'll tell you a brief
183. 10:07story and then I want to do kind of a deep dive into how we can relate to Muslims. But
184. 10:11Dylan Saturday, just a week ago, I was coming out of JFK Airport in New York City, heading
185. 10:19to go teach a class in Colorado.
186. 10:21I'm going through security and one of the TSA men was clearly a Muslim man and I had
187. 10:29a gospel booklet in my briefcase because I try to carry around like gospel booklets.
188. 10:35By the way, folks, if you contact the Billy Graham ministry, he's got a wonderful little
189. 10:40Peace with God by Billy Graham.
190. 10:42Great little booklet.
191. 10:43They'll give you some.
192. 10:45But I come up and I said, and we stopped right there.
193. 10:49I was right in front of this man.
194. 10:51And I said, Merry Christmas.
195. 10:54And he just nodded.
196. 10:56And I said, hey, I'd like to bless you.
197. 10:58This little booklet has some Bible verses.
198. 11:00I think it'll be a great encouragement to you.
199. 11:03And he shook his head, no.
200. 11:05And the line moved and he said, move along, move along.
201. 11:08So I didn't get to give it to him.
202. 11:10But then I got down to the gate area,
203. 11:12JFK Airport, New York City.
204. 11:14And there was a currency conversion table
205. 11:17where you could transfer money.
206. 11:19And the lady behind the desk was a Muslim lady
207. 11:22and had all the garb on the headdress and all that.
208. 11:27And I walked over and I said,
209. 11:29Hey, this is gonna sound, I don't think, corny.
210. 11:33But I said, you know, money's not the only thing
211. 11:36that can be converted.
212. 11:38And she looked at me and I said,
213. 11:41hi, Merry Christmas.
214. 11:42I said, you know, Jesus can convert our soul.
215. 11:46And she smiled.
216. 11:47And I said, may I give you this booklet with some Bible verses?
217. 11:50And I hope it will be a blessing to you.
218. 11:53And I'm quoting.
219. 11:54She said, I'm not allowed to read that.
220. 11:57And my heart kind of sank.
221. 12:01And I said, well, it's from the Bible
222. 12:04and it will be a blessing to you.
223. 12:07And I tried to sort of hand it to her and she pushed back
224. 12:11and she said, no, no, I can't take that, I'm sorry.
225. 12:14And I looked at her and I said,
226. 12:17do you know anything much about Jesus?
227. 12:20And she said, no, I don't.
228. 12:21Now we're in JFK airport, right?
229. 12:23And I said, please do me a favor, Google, who is Jesus?
230. 12:30And I said, research Jesus,
231. 12:32this is the most important thing you'll ever do.
232. 12:35and she was listening, she was looking just eye to eye.
233. 12:38And I said, honestly, the most significant life ever,
234. 12:43Jesus Christ, research Jesus, please.
235. 12:48Anyway, I didn't do so well, Dylan.
236. 12:51I did not lead either one of these people to Christ.
237. 12:54I tried to, tried to, but can you give us some pointers
238. 12:57and we'll start and we'll go through the break,
239. 13:00but how does an American Christian effectively begin
240. 13:05to share the gospel with Muslim persons.
241. 13:09Well, I think what you shared is so important
242. 13:11is that so many times we share faith with someone
243. 13:14and they don't say yes or there's no parent progress
244. 13:18and you feel like such a failure.
245. 13:19I used to think of that in college.
246. 13:21I'd share my faith with somebody
247. 13:23whether they were a Muslim or someone else
248. 13:24and if they didn't convert, convert, I would think,
249. 13:26oh, I'm a total failure.
250. 13:28They're going to go to hell and it's all my fault.
251. 13:29You know, that was my perspective at the time
252. 13:31and that's not really how it works.
253. 13:33God is in control.
254. 13:35We are called to sow the seed and to share the gospel,
255. 13:38to communicate the faith and live it out
256. 13:40and let God take care of the results.
257. 13:41So I'm glad that you share that story
258. 13:43because so many of us are in that situation.
259. 13:45We share and we share and we don't see results
260. 13:47and we think we're doing something wrong,
261. 13:49but it's all part of God's plan
262. 13:51where maybe one of those people along the way will say,
263. 13:53people have been sharing Jesus with me.
264. 13:55There's something going on.
265. 13:56I need to look into this more.
266. 13:57But you'd ask for a couple of tips,
267. 13:59a couple of things that I noticed right away
268. 14:02And this started in college when I started sharing my faith with people from a Muslim background.
269. 14:06One is that they're looking for a friend.
270. 14:09If someone is a Muslim background and they're either new to American culture, even if they've
271. 14:13lived here a long time, everybody needs a friend.
272. 14:15There's such a loneliness epidemic in our culture right now.
273. 14:19So you can be a genuine friend who's not simply out to sell your religion.
274. 14:24That's very appealing to people.
275. 14:26And I would say in addition.
276. 14:28We've got a break coming up folks.
277. 14:30The voice you're hearing is Dr. Dylan Burrows, a prolific author, a long-time friend and colleague
278. 14:35in the apologetics world.
279. 14:37Alex McFarland here saying stay tuned.
280. 14:39We're going to come back and we're going to talk about the top three theological issues
281. 14:44that you need to be conversant on to share Jesus with Muslims.
282. 14:49This is the Hamilton Corner on the American Family Radio Network.
283. 14:53You can listen again at aFR.net but stay tuned.
284. 14:56We're back after this.
285. 15:00Never underestimate the power of prayer.
286. 15:02All too often we use prayer in a reactionary way, turning to God when we're in need.
287. 15:07But it's both beautiful and powerful when a family takes time each day to pray together
288. 15:13intentionally.
289. 15:14In the stand, Joseph Parker shares prayers based on scripture for you and your family
290. 15:19to use in your time together.
291. 15:21Find a Christian Family Prayer Guide today at AFA.net.
292. 15:26stand. AFA.net slash the stand.
293. 15:29Shining light into the darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
294. 15:42Welcome back to the program and Merry Christmas everybody. Hey, we're talking with Dylan
295. 15:46Burrows and if you were with us before the break, Dylan was giving us some pointers about
296. 15:51building a friendship and just, I would say this, Dylan, one of the great door openers
297. 15:57in evangelism of all people, but especially Muslims,
298. 16:02is kindness.
299. 16:04That's one of the very powerful tools in our toolkit
300. 16:07is kindness, isn't it?
301. 16:10Of course, because there's that stereotype
302. 16:11that so many Christians are not very kind
303. 16:14or not very compassionate or very anti-Muslim in some regard.
304. 16:17And when you come across as a kind, compassionate believer
305. 16:21who also loves Jesus, that stands out.
306. 16:24And starting with friendship is such a key aspect.
307. 16:27We said we're going to talk about three ways or three issues that are important in sharing your faith with people of Muslim background
308. 16:33And we want to get into those and the first one I would say is is the Trinity
309. 16:37That sounds like an odd one
310. 16:39You know the Trinity how is that important in sharing your faith with Muslims?
311. 16:42But it is key because for Muslims this idea that God is three sounds like it's an abomination
312. 16:48You know, there's only one God and that's not the way that they see Christianity
313. 16:52Christianity. So we need to oftentimes clear up this misconception of three gods. It's actually the
314. 16:58triune God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three persons, one God. And then
315. 17:05explain that from scripture. And they're, you know, it's obviously confusing even for people who
316. 17:08are Christian sometimes to understand the Trinity. So just having that basic understanding of Jesus
317. 17:15as more than a prophet, as God's Son that we'll talk about as one of the other aspects is key. But
318. 17:20that issue of the Trinity is a big one when you're talking about people from a Muslim background,
319. 17:24certainly.
320. 17:25You know, I was in Charlotte, North Carolina.
321. 17:27I'm from North Carolina and I was in a store.
322. 17:30I stopped to get a snack at a convenience store and I was talking to the man and he said,
323. 17:36I have a question.
324. 17:37Now, I was a brand new believer and he said, why do Christians worship three gods?
325. 17:44And I was like, whoa, we don't.
326. 17:47I didn't know the verse, but Deuteronomy 6, 1 through 4, it says,
327. 17:52here, O Israel, the Lord, our God is one.
328. 17:55And I said, no, no, we don't worship three gods.
329. 17:59There's one God, but there's father, son, Holy Spirit.
330. 18:04I have found in talking to Muslims, especially on university campuses,
331. 18:09that's a big deal though.
332. 18:11That's a hurdle, isn't it, for them to get passed?
333. 18:13Oh yeah, and that's what a person from a Muslim background is taught is that Christians worship
334. 18:18three gods. You can't do that. And so when you get down to the verses and talk about baptism
335. 18:23and the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, where you talk about Jesus at his baptism,
336. 18:28where the spirit came down like a dove and he's talking to the voice of the Father is
337. 18:33sounding from the sky and you have Jesus there, all three in one situation. We can show from
338. 18:38the Bible that it's one God, three persons, not three gods. And if you can help a person
339. 18:43understand that is from a Muslim background, you actually open a new pathway to talking
340. 18:47more about your faith that wouldn't exist otherwise. So that's very important. But a second one,
341. 18:51and we want to get to this, is the issue of the New Testament. You know, Muslims have their
342. 18:55own scripture, the Quran, they see the New Testament as corrupted. But it's interesting that Islam
343. 19:02also talks about the importance of the ingeal or the gospel. So one thing you can start with
344. 19:07is to simply ask someone from a Muslim background, have you ever read the ingeal or the gospels?
345. 19:12And they'll usually say no because they haven't.
346. 19:15And you can start with something as simple as the Gospel of John and say, if you read the
347. 19:19Gospel of John, let's see what it says and offer to actually give someone a new Testament,
348. 19:23like you talked about in your example or to even read scripture together as a good tool
349. 19:28for evangelism.
350. 19:29And by the time you get to John 3, you see very clearly about God's love for all people
351. 19:33and what salvation is all about.
352. 19:36Now the word in geo, what do they mean by that?
353. 19:40I mean, do they mean the death burial and the resurrection of Jesus for the sins of the human race?
354. 19:46I mean, is that what they mean by gospel?
355. 19:49No, no.
356. 19:49And typically, in Jesus, the Arabic word for gospel or gospel is plural.
357. 19:53So that's what they would refer to as the Christian scriptures that are not the Muslim scriptures
358. 19:58that are important but not as important as the Quran.
359. 20:00So you can gain an opening with some people from Muslim background by simply talking about the in-geal
360. 20:06because that's of interest.
361. 20:07But not everybody knows the teachings of their own faith.
362. 20:10So it's helpful with some people,
363. 20:12but not necessarily everybody you talk to
364. 20:14from a Muslim background.
365. 20:16Dylan, let's talk about the New Testament for a minute
366. 20:19because folks, the New Testament is Matthew through Revelation.
367. 20:23This is one thing that Dylan,
368. 20:25when I was in graduate school at Liberty,
369. 20:27I had the great privilege.
370. 20:29The head of our program was Gary Habermas,
371. 20:32but there were a number of,
372. 20:35oh my goodness, world class scholars that we,
373. 20:38Well, I spent three years just studying, among other things, the preservation of the New Testament.
374. 20:45And folks, I want to say unequivocally with all the emphasis I could possibly convey,
375. 20:51that the New Testament has been preserved. The Bible you read is the Bible that God gave.
376. 20:58I firmly believe that. And so, Dylan, when I've talked to Muslims, in fact, it was my great privilege
377. 21:05about six weeks ago to lead a Muslim man to Christ and, you know, help mentor him and disciple him.
378. 21:12But I felt like it was a real revelation to him that we could defend that, yes, the New Testament is accurate.
379. 21:22It has not been corrupted.
380. 21:24And within the pages of this New Testament, you read about Jesus who died and rose again.
381. 21:31So, can you give us a basic talking points on defending the trustworthiness of the New
382. 21:38Testament?
383. 21:39Oh my goodness, we can spend so long on this.
384. 21:42But first and foremost, the New Testament is the book with the most copies of ancient copies,
385. 21:49I should say handwritten copies of any book of antiquity.
386. 21:53And so there's no comparison when it comes to quantity of manuscripts from the earliest
387. 21:57times.
388. 21:58And also when you look at the quality of those manuscripts, yes, there are differences.
389. 22:01but most of those differences are, you know, small, scribal,
390. 22:05errors re-wording one way or the other,
391. 22:06not things that would change the core message
392. 22:09of the New Testament documents.
393. 22:11So when you look back and say we have several thousand copies
394. 22:14of New Testament writings within the first centuries,
395. 22:17and those can even be looked at today to see
396. 22:19if there are any differences in what those differences mean,
397. 22:21you can't say that about the Quran,
398. 22:23you can't say that about any other spiritual book,
399. 22:25only the New Testament has that.
400. 22:27And of course, the Old Testament documents
401. 22:29to a smaller degree in terms of number of ancient manuscripts.
402. 22:32So the Bible stands out as unique in that regard.
403. 22:35And so it's not only the spiritual power,
404. 22:37but the historical power of the documents
405. 22:40and the quantity and quality of them
406. 22:42that we have that form a strong basis for our faith.
407. 22:45That doesn't prove our faith just looking at the numbers,
408. 22:47but it does give evidence that points toward
409. 22:50our faith as being accurate.
410. 22:52You know what's really interesting?
411. 22:54Some years ago I was working at Focus on the Family,
412. 22:57and there was this movie and book.
413. 23:00I'm not even gonna name the title of it
414. 23:02because I don't wanna give it any PR,
415. 23:04but there was a book and a movie
416. 23:05that pretty much trashed the New Testament.
417. 23:10And so Dr. Dobson gave me the job of creating a website
418. 23:15and getting a lot of scholars together,
419. 23:17which we did.
420. 23:18Among them, there was William Lane Craig,
421. 23:21and but then there was Dr. Dan Wallace,
422. 23:24who you may know.
423. 23:25And we put together what I felt like was a really, really strong website with, you know,
424. 23:31all things related to defending the New Testament.
425. 23:35And Dr. Dan Wallace and I had many, many conversations about besides the thousands of New Testament
426. 23:42manuscripts, there were New Testament verses referenced in early church correspondence.
427. 23:49And so even if we didn't have the New Testament manuscripts, which we do, but even if we did
428. 23:55didn't, we could reconstruct the New Testament based on verses cited in early church correspondence
429. 24:03for the first couple of hundred years. Speak to that because this is very powerful, isn't
430. 24:07it? Right. And I spoke directly to the manuscripts of the New Testament that were available in
431. 24:13Greek and then also the Aladdin and other language manuscripts shortly afterwards. But
432. 24:18you're correct. There were thousands of additional quotations of New Testament documents in the
433. 24:22early church fathers, even non-Christian sources.
434. 24:25And when you document all those,
435. 24:26I think Norman Geisler was the one who wrote about
436. 24:28the huge percentage of the New Testament
437. 24:31that's quoted within that,
438. 24:32that you can nearly reconstruct the entire New Testament,
439. 24:35simply based on quotations outside
440. 24:37of the New Testament in ancient documents.
441. 24:38So there's compelling evidence that it was in existence,
442. 24:42that it was accurate, it was accurately quoted,
443. 24:44and it was changing lives in just like it does now.
444. 24:47One other thing, and last week,
445. 24:50Dylan and I, the great privilege.
446. 24:52Gary Habermas and I were teaching a class together.
447. 24:56Now folks, this is huge.
448. 24:59There are within the New Testament examples
449. 25:03of the gospel message that the early church
450. 25:06would memorize and repeat.
451. 25:08And sometimes these are referred to as Cretal statements,
452. 25:12C-R-E-N-D-A-L.
453. 25:14But like Acts 2, 22 through 24,
454. 25:171 Corinthians 15, 3 through 5, Colossians 1, Philippians 2,
455. 25:24how Jesus though in the form of God thought it not robbery
456. 25:28to be equal with God but made himself of no reputation,
457. 25:31took on the form of a servant, was made a little lower
458. 25:34than the angels.
459. 25:36And here's the exciting thing.
460. 25:39I've got two things that I think are just so powerful.
461. 25:41But the gospel, the Habermas calls it this,
462. 25:46deity death resurrection.
463. 25:49Christ the Son of God, he is deity.
464. 25:51He died, paid our sin debt.
465. 25:53He rose from the dead, literally rose from the dead.
466. 25:56And by faith in Christ, we are saved.
467. 25:59Dylan, Habermas lays out at least eight
468. 26:03Cretal statements in the New Testament.
469. 26:06And I guess I would throw to you,
470. 26:08doesn't this show that from the very, very beginning,
471. 26:12the church knew what the gospel was, didn't they?
472. 26:16Yes, there's sometimes an argument made that there's a difference between what Jesus taught and what the apostles taught about him after he died and was resurrected.
473. 26:24But that is certainly not true. The two examples that you share, 1 Corinthians 15, it was written within about 25 years of the events, same with the Philippians 2, which quotes what the church believed about Jesus up to that time. And that had to be before the Apostle Paul died, which was only about 35 years later from the time of the resurrection.
474. 26:45and it was written even before his death.
475. 26:46So we have very strong evidence that what the apostles believed
476. 26:50is what Jesus taught and that that was faithfully communicated
477. 26:54in the New Testament and has been handed down
478. 26:56accurately until today.
479. 26:58So there's a consistent message.
480. 26:59It's not a myth, it's not legend, it's fact.
481. 27:03And it's a question now of whether we accept
482. 27:05that Jesus actually was resurrected from the dead
483. 27:08and fulfilled the predictions about him doing so
484. 27:10or whether he did not.
485. 27:12And so if you get people to that point,
486. 27:14realize there is so much evidence for the Christian faith that it comes down to a decision,
487. 27:19not simply the documents.
488. 27:21Any?
489. 27:22Let me ask you this.
490. 27:23I want your critique of this.
491. 27:26I was actually on a radio debate with an imam on, this was a few years ago, but the imam
492. 27:36I was debating was saying the New Testament was corrupted, couldn't be trusted.
493. 27:41And I think the Lord gave me this, and it really did seem to kind of, you know, stop him.
494. 27:49But I said, look, the New Testament documents that existed in the first two centuries existed
495. 27:56at the time of Muhammad.
496. 27:58Muhammad was born about 571, has long started about 610.
497. 28:02So the very same New Testament, and by the way, folks, the word is called manuscript attestation,
498. 28:08the manuscripts.
499. 28:10So I said to this in Mom, the very same New Testament that was in the first century is
500. 28:15the New Testament that existed at the time of Muhammad.
501. 28:19So if you're going to say the New Testament has been corrupted, here's my question, sir.
502. 28:24What are the changes and when were they inserted?
503. 28:29Okay, what verses?
504. 28:31And I will tell you it pretty much stopped him in his tracks because here's the point,
505. 28:36The change is the corruption, the intentional misleading.
506. 28:41It's just not there, is it, Dylan?
507. 28:44No, and typically those people who make such accusations
508. 28:47have not studied the details enough
509. 28:49to really know the details you're talking about.
510. 28:52But I love Dr. Daniel Wallace that you mentioned
511. 28:54was one of my professors at Dallas Seminary.
512. 28:57And he was very clear that all of the evidence
513. 29:01for all of the so-called scribal changes
514. 29:04are either in the text or in the footnotes.
515. 29:06There's not some missing gospel out there.
516. 29:08It's either one of these two or three options at the most,
517. 29:11or not missing something.
518. 29:12It's not corrupted.
519. 29:13It's sometimes a matter of which one of these two choices
520. 29:16was the original writing of the New Testament document,
521. 29:19this particular aspect.
522. 29:20But again, none of those are things that would change
523. 29:23the basis of our major tenets of the faith.
524. 29:25Even the biggest ones, the end of Mark 16,
525. 29:28that is sometimes controversial,
526. 29:30wouldn't change what we believe about the resurrection
527. 29:32or about Jesus and who he is and what he did.
528. 29:35So we have all the confidence in the world
529. 29:38that the evidence is on our side
530. 29:40so we can boldly proclaim the gospel
531. 29:41with people of Muslim background
532. 29:43or anyone else who has questions about our faith
533. 29:45and about our scriptures.
534. 29:47Let's talk about another thing.
535. 29:48And folks, if you're just tuning in,
536. 29:50Alex McFarland here along with Dr. Dylan Burrows
537. 29:53and we're talking about the gospel,
538. 29:56it's Christmas of course,
539. 29:57but we're really talking about how to get up to speed
540. 30:01on sharing Jesus with Muslims.
541. 30:03And we've talked about the Trinity,
542. 30:05We've talked about the New Testament. Let's talk about Jesus himself. Dylan, what does
543. 30:11the word mean in carnation? The incarnation of Christ. What does that mean?
544. 30:16Yeah, well, it goes back to Latin wording in carné or what we would think of as me.
545. 30:23Carné. It's flesh. It's the idea that Jesus came in human form to our world and he dwelt
546. 30:29among us. John 1 talks about, he dwelt among us or pitched his tent among us as a way it
547. 30:34could be translated. It was very personal. And so when you hear that, it's much different
548. 30:39than any other religious tradition where, you know, God did not come down in human form
549. 30:44and dwell among men like Jesus did. There's a compelling storyline when you look at it
550. 30:48that way, relationally. And it's compelling when you look at what Jesus gave up from heaven
551. 30:52to earth. And then of course, when you look at what he endured, not only during his lifetime,
552. 30:57but it is suffering and death, it just makes all the more impact. So when you can talk
553. 31:02about Jesus in that way, it's unique among religious traditions and it's also compelling
554. 31:07among religious traditions when we talk about Jesus and why he loves us, how he loves us,
555. 31:13and the message that he asks for us if we would simply believe in him.
556. 31:17You know, one of my favorite songs at Christmas is a Hark the Herald Angels sing. And I think
557. 31:23that was one of the great hymns written by the Westleys, but there's a lyric. And I remember,
558. 31:29I've thought about it for years.
559. 31:31I want you to comment,
560. 31:33veiled in flesh, the Godhead sea,
561. 31:36hail the incarnate deity,
562. 31:39pleased as man with men to dwell,
563. 31:41Jesus our Emmanuel.
564. 31:43We've got a break, we'll talk about it after that.
565. 31:45But isn't that powerful, veiled in flesh, the Godhead sea?
566. 31:49That's the incarnation, isn't it?
567. 31:52Yes it is, and look forward to talking about that more
568. 31:54and we come back.
569. 31:55We've got a brief break.
570. 31:56This is the Hamilton Corner on the American Family Radio
571. 31:58at work, Alex McFarland, Dylan Burroughs, wishing you a Merry Christmas.
572. 32:03Stay tuned, we're going to talk more about the gospel, sharing it with others, especially
573. 32:07Muslims.
574. 32:09Much more to come, don't go away, we're back after this brief break.
575. 32:30The God who speaks.
576. 32:31And of course, he went beyond even the Old Testament law in the sermon on the Mount saying,
577. 32:36you've heard it said, you shall not commit adultery.
578. 32:39I will tell you that if you've lost it in your heart, you have already committed adultery.
579. 32:43And then I realized something.
580. 32:45I can't believe less than Jesus believed, and he had absolute confidence in the Old Testament.
581. 32:54The God Who Speaks at resources.afa.net.
582. 33:04Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at eFR.net.
583. 33:10Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
584. 33:14Well, welcome back everybody.
585. 33:17Alex McFarland here, what a joy to be sitting in for Abe Hamilton.
586. 33:21And before we resume our conversation with Dylan Burrows, I want to make you aware of
587. 33:25a couple of things that I think are pretty important.
588. 33:28For one, there's a conference through it all, the Hana's Heart Conference.
589. 33:33It's in early 2026.
590. 33:35And oh my goodness, it'll be here before you know it.
591. 33:38But the Hana's Heart Conference is going to be located at Hope Church in Tupelo, Mississippi,
592. 33:43fantastic church.
593. 33:44I've had the privilege of preaching there.
594. 33:47But it's January 30 and 31.
595. 33:50And there are speakers like Jane Johnson, author of Mercy Like Morning, powerful faith-filled
596. 33:55messages of women walking through difficult seasons, like seasons of infertility.
597. 34:01There's going to be special music.
598. 34:03But then the hosts of the Hannah's Heart Radio show Ann Cockrell and Kendra White, you know
599. 34:09them, you appreciate them, I'm sure they will be there in person.
600. 34:13And it's going to be a great conference for fellowship with women that are navigating
601. 34:19infertility, miscarriage, singleness, health diagnoses that are hard to navigate through.
602. 34:26It will really be a great time of encouragement and inspiration. And I know the Lord is going to
603. 34:32really bless you. If you go to, listen to this, afr.net slash hhc2026. Let me give you that again.
604. 34:43afr.net
605. 34:458 slash hhc
606. 34:472026 and if you use the code hope 50 you'll get a discount
607. 34:54But it's the henna's heart conference coming up. We'll we'll announce it again, but it's January 31
608. 35:01and it just may be that
609. 35:04Encouragement that really helps you through a hard season and a deep valley
610. 35:09Let me also remind everybody that Bird Harper and I are third in the series of a hundred
611. 35:15questions.
612. 35:17We give God the glory for this book, but it's one hundred Bible questions and answers on prophecy
613. 35:22and the end times it just came out and it's at the AFR resource page if you Google it and
614. 35:29might help you not only get up to speed on the topic of eschatology, last things, end time
615. 35:36things. But there's the gospel in there and how to share Jesus with people that have questions
616. 35:42about the state of the world and the future. Finally, the cove. I know right now you're
617. 35:47probably not thinking about the summer of 2026, but the Billy Graham Training Center in
618. 35:52western North Carolina, the cove. It's been my privilege to be there for 21 summers. And
619. 35:57yes, we'll be there in the summer of 26 as well. Good Lord willing. July 17 through 19,
620. 36:04I'll be there teaching this hundred questions on prophecy book.
621. 36:08Daniel Revelation, what does the Bible say?
622. 36:11But then I'll be back again for a week with Gary Habermas
623. 36:17and that we'll be doing a deep dive on apologetics.
624. 36:20So if you would, please go to the website, thecove.org,
625. 36:24T-H-E-C-O-V-E, thecove.org.
626. 36:27And at either of the two weeks that I'll be there,
627. 36:31Angie will be there.
628. 36:33Probably Bert and Jan Harper will be there
629. 36:36at one of them and I'll announce it.
630. 36:38But consider, I'll put it this way,
631. 36:40invest a weekend that will count for your whole life
632. 36:44as we do a deep dive into God's word together.
633. 36:47And I hope to see you there.
634. 36:50Well, somebody that God has used for years and years
635. 36:54to help people get into the word, to live and know
636. 36:57and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.
637. 37:00It's Dr. Dylan Burr, his longtime friend and colleague.
638. 37:03He's with us now.
639. 37:04Dylan, we've been talking about reaching out to Muslims,
640. 37:08and we were talking before the break about the incarnation,
641. 37:12the fact that God took on the human body.
642. 37:15And let's revisit that a little bit.
643. 37:20This is so powerful because there's no other human
644. 37:23in all of history, no other faith system,
645. 37:27No other belief, the incarnation, the fact that God incarnate, the second member of the
646. 37:35Trinity, God the Son, that's vitally important to the Christian faith, isn't it, that Jesus
647. 37:42was who he claimed to be?
648. 37:45Yes, well, that is the key thing that we celebrate this time of year, that God became
649. 37:50flesh and dwelt among us.
650. 37:52And it's important to know that it's not a 50-50 split, right?
651. 37:57Jesus was both 100% God and 100% human experienced human life, emotions, and temptations, but
652. 38:04was without sin.
653. 38:06Perfect.
654. 38:07And so he came as that perfect sacrifice, that sacrificial lamb they talk about a lot
655. 38:12of times with the Old Testament reference.
656. 38:15And it was for a purpose.
657. 38:16The ultimate purpose was salvation.
658. 38:19John 3 16 is very clear about God's purpose
659. 38:22for sending Jesus to provide salvation.
660. 38:24So whether you're talking with someone
661. 38:26from a Muslim background who's not familiar
662. 38:28with what that means, or you're talking with a relative
663. 38:31around the table at the holidays,
664. 38:32that idea that Jesus came to provide salvation
665. 38:36to give you eternal life, it's so important.
666. 38:38And let me just encourage you,
667. 38:39when you're talking with people during this Christmas season,
668. 38:43don't be afraid to bring up Jesus
669. 38:45and where people will spend eternity.
670. 38:47It's so easy to overlook it and talk about the presence and the food and sports and other
671. 38:51activities, but it's really all about Jesus.
672. 38:54And when we put him at the center of the celebration, his birthday, his coming, his incarnation,
673. 39:00we will see potential opportunities that God will open up for us to share about the gospel
674. 39:06message and potentially see other people experience eternal life like we have.
675. 39:11You know, I love music and I love Christmas music.
676. 39:14And one of the lyrics that so captivated my thoughts, O come, O come Emmanuel and ransom
677. 39:24captive Israel.
678. 39:26Now wasn't it Isaiah 9, 6 that says, Emmanuel, God with us?
679. 39:32Dylan, if you would speak to that, what does the word, Emmanuel really mean and convey?
680. 39:40Well, Emmanuel is literally a translation into God with us.
681. 39:45So we see that in Jesus coming to earth,
682. 39:48and that's what we celebrate with the song
683. 39:50and with the Christmas season,
684. 39:51but many people don't realize it comes from Isaiah 7.
685. 39:55714 talks about the Virgin Child can see,
686. 39:58even call his name Emmanuel.
687. 40:00Matthew one quotes it and says,
688. 40:02Jesus is the fulfillment of this.
689. 40:04So we know very clearly that's how the earliest believers
690. 40:06of Jesus understood it.
691. 40:08but to have that prediction from the prophet Isaiah
692. 40:11to come, you know, 700 years approximately
693. 40:15before the events is phenomenal.
694. 40:17We would call it supernatural, right?
695. 40:19That it's something that you would only know
696. 40:21if God revealed it to you.
697. 40:22And again, even if you're talking to someone
698. 40:25who's not Muslim, someone from a Jewish background,
699. 40:27perhaps look at Isaiah seven and say,
700. 40:29who do you think this is talking about?
701. 40:31And you can very clearly make an argument
702. 40:33that we're talking about Jesus
703. 40:35who came and fulfilled this idea of a manual,
704. 40:37God with us.
705. 40:39And you know the beautiful thing, and folks, listen in, please, because you know psychologists
706. 40:45tell us that this time of year, you know, very often people get lonely.
707. 40:50Depression is kind of prominent during the Christmas season.
708. 40:55And folks, maybe this is a year, maybe there's been a bereavement, and there's an empty chair
709. 41:01at your table this year.
710. 41:03And we want you to know that God cares.
711. 41:07And when Emmanuel, God with us, yes, it was the incarnation 2000 years ago.
712. 41:13But Dylan, I believe it is right now that in Jesus, God is with you.
713. 41:19The Bible says that he is the friend who sticks closer than a brother.
714. 41:24Dylan, if you would, give a word to the person who's out there and maybe they feel all
715. 41:29alone.
716. 41:31Maybe they feel like Christmas is pretty hard,
717. 41:34but honestly, I really believe that our joy,
718. 41:38our reassurance, our comfort,
719. 41:41and just the understanding that God sees and God cares
720. 41:46and God is with us.
721. 41:47God has not abandoned us.
722. 41:50That's in Jesus, isn't it?
723. 41:52Yes, it is.
724. 41:53And you're right.
725. 41:54So many people not only celebrate Christmas,
726. 41:56but they also struggle with Christmas.
727. 41:58And I think back to the first Christmas
728. 42:00after my father passed away, I was 24 years old, still a young adult, still in grad school,
729. 42:05and you go to Christmas and you think it's never going to be the saint. What's it going to be like
730. 42:11from here on out? And it is a struggle. But during that time, I was a believer. I had God's spirit in
731. 42:16my life. I can count on the promises of God's Word that says, I'll be with you always to the end of
732. 42:21the age. And that comforted me just like the Psalms talk about, even though you go through the
733. 42:27the valley of the shadow of death, I will be with you.
734. 42:30And those kind of things get us through those moments,
735. 42:33but realize there are a lot of people
736. 42:34who don't have that hope within them.
737. 42:36There are a lot of people who are still struggling
738. 42:38with whether they even know God and what that means.
739. 42:41So that first step, whether it's the kind of relationships
740. 42:46we talked about in this program,
741. 42:48talking to people from Muslim background,
742. 42:50or whether it's your relative or a friend at work,
743. 42:53there are a lot of hurting people out there.
744. 42:55And you could be that person who turns hurt to hope through the message of Jesus and what
745. 43:00he can offer, not only in his coming, but in the salvation that he brings.
746. 43:04Amen.
747. 43:05You know, Dylan and you and I have been talking about trying to share Jesus with Muslims, but
748. 43:12Muslims that come to Christ culturally amongst their family members and those in their community,
749. 43:20they pay a high price, don't they?
750. 43:23Something Americans may not, you know, if an American becomes a believer, you know, maybe
751. 43:30there's a little bit of social pressure, but for a Muslim, it is a massively huge commitment,
752. 43:37isn't it?
753. 43:38Yes, and I'm so glad you brought that up because I think in many cases that's the key sticking
754. 43:43point.
755. 43:44I've had people I've had a chance to help lead to faith in Jesus in the past from a Muslim
756. 43:47background, but they're almost a secret believer.
757. 43:50They didn't want to go public with baptism or join a church
758. 43:53because that would not only be a symbol
759. 43:55that they had trusted in Jesus,
760. 43:57that would be getting cut off from their family completely,
761. 44:00from their culture completely, and perhaps even worse.
762. 44:03And we know stories that you see in the Middle East
763. 44:06and even in our own country
764. 44:07where acts of violence have taken place against people
765. 44:10who have converted out of their religion
766. 44:12to Christianity or other faith traditions.
767. 44:15So there are real dangers there of all kinds,
768. 44:17whether it's social, whether it's family, whether it's something physical.
769. 44:21And we have to take that into account and realize people are coming from a very
770. 44:26difficult challenge to convert from Islam to Christianity.
771. 44:30So it may not happen overnight.
772. 44:32It's not the, you know, raise your hand and come down the aisle like we might do at
773. 44:35a church service, but when you faithfully invest in someone and communicate Jesus
774. 44:39through your life and through your words, you will make an impact.
775. 44:43And that can have an eternal difference in the life of one person and that one
776. 44:47person matters infinitely to you and to God?
777. 44:51You know we don't have all that much time left but I want to throw a challenge out there
778. 44:55folks to individuals and churches that we earnestly pray for the salvation of Muslim people everywhere
779. 45:03but especially in America.
780. 45:04Dylan, I've been up to Detroit and Dearborn Michigan to preach in several places.
781. 45:10In fact, just twice in the last week, I've been on radio shows in Dearborn.
782. 45:16A lot of Muslim population there, a lot of Muslim growing Islamic populations in Texas
783. 45:23of all things.
784. 45:25New York City, where I just was, lots of Muslim people there.
785. 45:29Dylan, first of all, I hope every church has a very concerted prayer ministry.
786. 45:35Because look, we're not afraid of hard work.
787. 45:38We'll travel, we'll preach, we'll write, we'll broadcast.
788. 45:42But nothing of eternal significance happens apart from prayer.
789. 45:47I just really believe that.
790. 45:48So Dylan, talk to us about our churches being very specific and proactive about interceding
791. 45:57for the salvation of Muslims.
792. 45:59Right.
793. 46:00And you're exactly right.
794. 46:02We have to make an effort.
795. 46:04we can pray all we want, but God calls us to act.
796. 46:07And we see examples that like, I think of the story of Jonah,
797. 46:09he did not want to tell this other group of people
798. 46:12about Jesus and God had to do something very drastic
799. 46:16in his life to turn him around and get him
800. 46:18to where he wanted to be.
801. 46:19So we don't want to be like that situation,
802. 46:22but at the same time, we have to be specific.
803. 46:24Are there people in our community
804. 46:25from Muslim background who need help learning English?
805. 46:27Well, English classes are a very specific thing you can do,
806. 46:31having something that's very specific to help refugees
807. 46:34because a lot of the Muslim background people
808. 46:36in your community might be through a refugee program
809. 46:38of some kind, those are a couple of things
810. 46:41that you can specifically focus on.
811. 46:43And then simply having this hospitality attitude
812. 46:46where you have occasional activities
813. 46:47or events at your church,
814. 46:49where you're intentionally inviting people
815. 46:51from outside of your church,
816. 46:52where it's not a service necessarily,
817. 46:54but it's time to have food, it's time to have fun,
818. 46:57a fall festival, Christmas event,
819. 46:59a spring activity of some kind.
820. 47:01So people feel welcome to bring their non-church
821. 47:04friends and help them and experience what it's like to be around other Christians,
822. 47:07because that's a starting point. If you've never been around other Christians on a regular basis,
823. 47:12and you're exposed to that, that can have a strong compelling impact on you coming to faith
824. 47:17as well. So there are all kinds of ways that we can minister, but we have to be strategic,
825. 47:22pray, and start as God leads on some of these efforts to reach those Muslims and our communities
826. 47:26and our nations as well. Well, to summarize, we've talked about building bridges and
827. 47:34Just kindness and friendships.
828. 47:36We've talked about the Trinity that there is one God and we are monotheistic, but it's
829. 47:43triune monotheism, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
830. 47:46The Bible is trustworthy.
831. 47:48Jesus is the Son of God.
832. 47:50And folks, we say this and we believe it, that Jesus is as close by as a prayer.
833. 47:56Call on Him today.
834. 47:58If you need to come to Christ or if you need to come back to Christ, His arms are open to receive you.
835. 48:03receive you. I want to thank Dylan Burrows for being with us.
836. 48:06Dylan, God bless you. Please, Mary Christmas convey our love in
837. 48:10regards to your dear family.
838. 48:12Merry Christmas to you. Pleasure to be with you today.
839. 48:15And I want to thank Jeff McIntosh for engineering the show, the
840. 48:18American Family Radio Network. You can listen to this show and
841. 48:20many others again at aFR.net. AFR.net. Hey, tell somebody about
842. 48:26American family radio, but most of all tell everybody about
843. 48:30Jesus.
844. 48:30The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
845. 48:44Family Association or American Family Radio.