The Hamilton Corner

November 25, 2025 · 50:53

Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Jay Seegert, Founder of The Starting Point Project, and Author, William J. Federer

Culture & Media

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Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Jay Seegert, Founder of The Starting Point Project, and Author, William J. Federer | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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  1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
  2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
  3. 0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
  5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
  6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
  7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
  8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
  9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
  10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
  11. 0:34You know, there's a favorite quote that I like, and I remember reading this quote probably
  12. 0:38twenty years ago, and it just grabbed my attention.
  13. 0:42G.K.
  14. 0:43Chesterton, Gilbert Keith Chesterton, who was very influential in the life of C.S.
  15. 0:47Lewis, but he wrote a book, I think it was about 1928.
  16. 0:52So right out a hundred years ago, but it was a biography of Thomas Aquinas.
  17. 0:57Aquinas is important because we are not Muslims today, at least in part due to the apologetics
  18. 1:05work of Aquinas in the 1200s.
  19. 1:08But G.K. Chesterton wrote this biography of Thomas Aquinas, and in the forward, he said
  20. 1:15this about the need for apologetics and biblical worldview.
  21. 1:19And keep in mind this is almost a century ago.
  22. 1:22But Chesterton said, as much as we need to win the loss to Christianity, more and more,
  23. 1:30we need to win the Christians to Christianity.
  24. 1:34Well with that quote, and that's thought provoking, we'll unpack it a bit.
  25. 1:38But my name is Alex McFarland, very, very honored to be sitting in for Abe Hamilton the third
  26. 1:42tonight, attorney, pastor, broadcaster Abe Hamilton.
  27. 1:46And this program deals with biblical worldview, culture, what God's Word says about so many
  28. 1:53issues.
  29. 1:54And we've got a great show and it's very special because it is Thanksgiving Eve, Eve, you know,
  30. 2:00the day before Thanksgiving.
  31. 2:03And before we go too much into the content, I want to say in the strongest possible terms
  32. 2:07how much we thank God for each and every one of you listening.
  33. 2:11And we just want all of you to know that as we sit down at our Thanksgiving table on Thursday
  34. 2:18and just reflect on how good the Lord is to us, we pray for the listeners of the American
  35. 2:23Family Radio Network.
  36. 2:25We thank God for each and every one of you.
  37. 2:27And together I really think we make a very powerful team to call our country and beyond
  38. 2:33back to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
  39. 2:35So please know how much we appreciate each and every one of you.
  40. 2:39So with me tonight at the beginning of the program is a friend I made the other day, a
  41. 2:43friend through our colleague Bill Federer, and his name is Jay Seekerd.
  42. 2:49And Jay is with the starting point project.
  43. 2:54And this is a man, the starting point project.com is the website.
  44. 2:59But Jay talks about the existence of God, the Bible, the inerrancy and authority of the Bible
  45. 3:07and worldviews as the starting point for discussion and belief. And right away, I just knew this was
  46. 3:16brothers in arms, Jay Seger. So he's with us now, and we'll talk about these things. But first of all,
  47. 3:23Jay Seger of the starting point project, welcome to the American Family Radio Network.
  48. 3:29It's an honor to be on the program this evening, Alex, and excited about whatever we want to talk
  49. 3:34about. Exactly. Well, I, before we go too far into news and headlines and things like that,
  50. 3:42tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about the starting point project.
  51. 3:47Sure. Short version grew up in a very, very strong Christian household. Not only learned
  52. 3:51the Bible but sought lived out in the life of my parents, which was awesome.
  53. 3:57Went to public schools, through high school, then went to a Christian college for an engineering
  54. 4:01degree and then I went to a State University for a physics degree and that's when all
  55. 4:05my professors were telling me I was wrong about everything I believed and at that point in
  56. 4:10my life I knew what I believed but I did not know why. I could not defend the Christian
  57. 4:15worldview and never really thought about it. I just believed it. So God put it in my heart
  58. 4:19to start looking into things. So I had been looking into things for 40 years and about
  59. 4:2519 years ago felt called into full-time ministry, so founded the starting point project.
  60. 4:32It is all about our starting point.
  61. 4:34Everyone has to start somewhere.
  62. 4:35It's impossible to not start somewhere.
  63. 4:38Christians start with the belief that God exists and the Bible is the word of God.
  64. 4:42And then we use that starting point to define everything else.
  65. 4:47What science and logic are, history, ethics, morality, philosophy, all those things are
  66. 4:51defined by our chosen starting point.
  67. 4:54obviously a skeptic would have a different starting point and you can ask them what they've
  68. 4:58chosen and it leads into some great healthy conversations. So the point is you're always
  69. 5:04going to interpret the world around you based on what you've already chosen to believe that
  70. 5:08starting point. So it's not so much about the minuscule details that we can argue. It's
  71. 5:13about what lens are you using to do your interpretations.
  72. 5:17Don't you think the default position of the human mind really is to assume God exists?
  73. 5:25And let me explain.
  74. 5:27Jay, I wrote two books about a decade ago.
  75. 5:31One called Answers for Skeptics and the other was Answers for Atheists.
  76. 5:35And I interviewed 32 pretty famous atheists, people like Christopher Hitchens and Michael
  77. 5:41Shermer and David Silverman and emailed back and forth with Richard Dawkins.
  78. 5:48In all of the interviews that I did with Atheist, and I would say, was there ever a time when
  79. 5:54you did believe in God?
  80. 5:56And out of 32 interviews, really 30 out of 32 said, no, I did used to believe in God or
  81. 6:05I was a Christian, but X happened.
  82. 6:08And it was almost like emotional pain was the gateway to intellectual skepticism.
  83. 6:15Do you believe that it naturally humans do assume there is God or in ultimate power?
  84. 6:22And it's maybe the circumstances of life or unresolved questions that caused them to build
  85. 6:28up a worldview that excludes God?
  86. 6:32Yeah, I'd actually say a hundred percent of the time because if we believe the Bible
  87. 6:36is the inspired word of God. And as Christians we do, and Romans one, it says that God has given
  88. 6:41so much evidence just in nature that mankind is without excuse. And he's actually put the knowledge
  89. 6:46of his existence inside every human being. That's the default. You have to go out of your way to reject
  90. 6:52that. So even those few who might say, no, I never really believed in God, it's really not possible
  91. 6:59from a biblical worldview. They had to have some inherent knowledge of that. They might not be as
  92. 7:04familiar with it, I remembered as much, but you're starting from that point because that's what
  93. 7:09Scripture tells us and you have to choose. And it's usually an unfortunate incident that happens that
  94. 7:14makes them a little bit bitter. Really, really quick, powerful story. I was speaking over at Oxford
  95. 7:19in London. There was an evangelist from Northern Ireland. He was witnessing to a nuclear physicist
  96. 7:25who was an atheist. The nuclear physicist told him, he goes, I don't believe that God exists.
  97. 7:30The evangelist said, no, you know he exists, but you hate him.
  98. 7:35You love your sin and your fear God's wrath.
  99. 7:37And the nuclear physicist looked back at him and said, you are the wisest man I've ever met.
  100. 7:43He was being transparent, which is really rare, but that's really the root of everything.
  101. 7:48It's not this lofty academic reason as to why they reject God.
  102. 7:51They might use that today, but it's really ultimately always a heart issue.
  103. 7:55Wow. I appreciate how brazen that Irish evangelist must have been. Also, I've got a friend, you may
  104. 8:03know Ray Comfort, who's I think from New Zealand originally. He's pretty forthright like that as
  105. 8:09well because here's the thing. I've told several atheist friends that I have ongoing dialogue with
  106. 8:16it. We have seen some atheist come to Christ. We really have. But I've said to them, I've said,
  107. 8:22Look, you talk about God more than any preacher I know.
  108. 8:26You know, you claim to be an atheist and yet when we get together you talk about God and
  109. 8:31I'm glad, but usually it's haranguing about how angry they are at the God they don't believe
  110. 8:38exists.
  111. 8:39But doesn't all the rhetoric and the diatribes kind of betray what you're saying, that the
  112. 8:47knowledge of God is in every human heart, every rational thinking grown up deep down we know
  113. 8:55God is real.
  114. 8:56Right.
  115. 8:58I mean, if there are atheists, I had a long conversation three, three and a half hours
  116. 9:03with the head of the Atheist Association in out in California and great conversation.
  117. 9:10Bright guy, nice guy.
  118. 9:11We were having fun.
  119. 9:12We were really enjoying the conversation, but I don't have time to go through the whole
  120. 9:16scenario, but I just basically temporarily assumed he was correct that there is no God.
  121. 9:20And then I just showed him how that belief leads to just logical absurdities, including
  122. 9:26the fact that he's just particles, particles and energy.
  123. 9:29It's all there's no soul, no spirit.
  124. 9:32Well he's got nothing in him to make decisions.
  125. 9:35I said the only thing that makes sense is that you are created in the image of God and
  126. 9:38he's given you a spirit with which you can make decisions.
  127. 9:42you're actually using the Spirit He gave you to reject Him.
  128. 9:45And He allows that, but He reserved the right
  129. 9:48for the consequences, which the rest of Romans,
  130. 9:50chapter one discusses.
  131. 9:52And so basically it's a logical absurdity to say,
  132. 9:56there is no God because the only way you could do that
  133. 9:59is if you're choosing to make that decision,
  134. 10:00but if there's no God, you are just particles banging together
  135. 10:03and you can't control that.
  136. 10:05I even asked Him, do you control your particles?
  137. 10:08He said, no.
  138. 10:09Well, if He's not controlling them,
  139. 10:10they're just banging together.
  140. 10:11So I said, well, in that sense, if you're right,
  141. 10:14you can't try to convert me because my particles
  142. 10:16are banging together in such a way that it makes me think
  143. 10:19God does exist, He has a son named Jesus Christ,
  144. 10:21and I have a personal relationship with Him.
  145. 10:23I have no control over that.
  146. 10:24That's how my particles are moving.
  147. 10:27Wow, wow.
  148. 10:28Well, you know, Thanksgiving is coming up.
  149. 10:30And by the way, I hope you and your family
  150. 10:33have a wonderful blessed time together.
  151. 10:36But over the next five, six weeks,
  152. 10:40Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, invariably people are going to be with relatives, friends,
  153. 10:47acquaintances, probably the subject of religion.
  154. 10:52And I mean Christianity is a relationship, it's not a religion.
  155. 10:57But what tips or advice would you give to the listeners, Jay, to fruitfully bring up
  156. 11:04Jesus over these next several weeks?
  157. 11:08Sure, that's a tough situation, especially with family because internal family members
  158. 11:15are usually the last people want to listen to you because who are you?
  159. 11:18You're the son, you're the daughter, you're the mom, you're the dad, your brother, whatever
  160. 11:23it is.
  161. 11:24So it does bring a level of challenge.
  162. 11:28However, the simplest advice I could possibly give and anyone can do it and it's not about
  163. 11:34gaining knowledge.
  164. 11:35It's about doing two things that you should be able to do.
  165. 11:37Number one, listen.
  166. 11:40Listen to things that they're saying.
  167. 11:41They will bring things up on their own.
  168. 11:43They proactively brought up some comment about why is this evil going on?
  169. 11:49Why is this happening?
  170. 11:50Why is that going on?
  171. 11:51Listen to what they're saying and then simply ask follow-up questions.
  172. 11:55Like they say, why did this evil thing happen?
  173. 11:57They go, how do you determine if something's evil or not?
  174. 12:01What standard are you using?
  175. 12:03You just ask very sincerely and innocently and then say,
  176. 12:07so you don't think anything bad should ever happen.
  177. 12:09No, well, then you think we should be controlled
  178. 12:12in our actions so we don't even have the ability
  179. 12:13to do something that someone else might think is wrong.
  180. 12:16And you ask enough questions,
  181. 12:18they'll back themselves into a corner realizing
  182. 12:22they can't actually back the statements they made.
  183. 12:24You're not saying they're a bad person.
  184. 12:26You're not even saying they're wrong.
  185. 12:27You're just trying to better understand
  186. 12:29where they're coming from.
  187. 12:30And the Holy Spirit will give you opportunities
  188. 12:32to then offer a counter view that does make sense of the world in which we live.
  189. 12:38And why are we thankful?
  190. 12:39What are we thankful for?
  191. 12:40If there's no God, we're thankful for particles banging together in the right way.
  192. 12:44So I've got to pray about it.
  193. 12:45You've got to be gracious and gentle, but the Holy Spirit will give you the words to say
  194. 12:49if you start out by simply listening to claims that are being made and ask follow up questions.
  195. 12:55Didn't Charles Darwin even say essentially of his theory and its conclusions? Didn't
  196. 13:03Darwin ask himself, why should I trust convictions in the mind of a monkey?
  197. 13:09Yeah, he couldn't help but wrestle with questions like that, but he didn't want to keep going
  198. 13:14that direction. It would have led him back to Christ, but again, he had a rough time
  199. 13:19with losing a daughter at an early age and other things that made him kind of bitter
  200. 13:22towards God, so he wanted to write God off. But he wrestled with that. He said the site
  201. 13:28of a peacock's tail made him sick. Like why? It's beautiful. That's why because it's beautiful.
  202. 13:33It shouldn't be beautiful. If there's no God particles banging together, why is it beautiful?
  203. 13:38He recognized beauty, but he couldn't account for it with his own worldview.
  204. 13:41You know, I've talked about this at length. And by the way, folks, if you're just tuning
  205. 13:46in, Alex McFarlane here along with our very special guest, Jay Segert of the starting
  206. 13:51Point Project. After the Protestant Reformation, which came in a number of European cities,
  207. 13:59not the least of which was Wittenberg, Germany, but the very same Germany that gave us Luther
  208. 14:05and the Reformation, two or two years later there was men in Friedrich Schleimacher, who
  209. 14:10was really, they called him the father of German liberalism, and Schleimacher's just
  210. 14:15trashing of the Bible and critique of the Bible shook up Charles Darwin as well.
  211. 14:21So it was theological liberalism. It's called higher criticism. We'll come back to that.
  212. 14:27But, Jay, before we take this brief break, give us your website if you would, please, sir.
  213. 14:32Sure. The startingpointproject.com. Lots of mostly free resources. A few things for sale,
  214. 14:40but mostly free resources. Plus we do Grand Canyon tours and podcasts and articles and videos.
  215. 14:44Wow, Alex McCrallen here, you know, apologetics is good, clean, fun, and you can become a defender
  216. 14:52of the faith, probably more fruitfully than you might imagine.
  217. 14:55But we'll continue this in more plus Bill Federer, talking about the origins of Thanksgiving.
  218. 15:00On this edition of the Hamilton Corner, American Family Radio, stay tuned.
  219. 15:08A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
  220. 15:12How tragic it is for believers that don't get around to reading Bible.
  221. 15:16In other words, they don't get around to spending time with Jesus listening to his counsel, his
  222. 15:21wisdom, his grace, allowing him to touch their lives with his word.
  223. 15:26Hebrews 4 verse 12, where the Word of God is living in active, sharper than any two-edged
  224. 15:31sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning
  225. 15:37the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
  226. 15:40In Ephesians 6, verses 17-18,
  227. 15:43and take the Hamadah salvation and the sword of the Spirit,
  228. 15:47which is the Word of God, praying always with all praying
  229. 15:51and supplication in the Spirit,
  230. 15:53and watching there unto with all perseverance
  231. 15:55and supplication for all saints.
  232. 15:57A kingdom warrior is a disciple of Christ
  233. 16:00who skillfully puts the Word of God,
  234. 16:02which is the sword of the Spirit to work every day.
  235. 16:13Shiting light into the darkness,
  236. 16:15This is the Hamilton Corner, on American Family Radio.
  237. 16:19Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift,
  238. 16:22that second Corinthians,
  239. 16:24and welcome back to the program, Alex McFarland here.
  240. 16:27You know, it's a special night
  241. 16:28because it were just a couple of days away from Thanksgiving.
  242. 16:32We're talking with Jay Segert of the starting point project.
  243. 16:36Before the break, we were talking about apologetics.
  244. 16:39And Jay, I really do agree with you that, you know,
  245. 16:43Theism is the default position of the human heart that really atheism is kind of a learned
  246. 16:51response to circumstances, pain. And if you would elaborate on that, that people ordinarily or
  247. 17:01instinctively they do assume God, but then for whatever reason they come to a point where they
  248. 17:07reject that knowledge, don't they?
  249. 17:13The clear that, again, God is instilled in knowledge of himself inside every human being,
  250. 17:18but human nature doesn't like the guilt that might come along because everyone wants to
  251. 17:23do things their own way.
  252. 17:24Adam and Eve had perfect fellowship with God in the garden, but they thought they had a
  253. 17:28better idea.
  254. 17:29That did not go well, and nothing's changed today.
  255. 17:32We do that as humans.
  256. 17:33We kind of have our own ideas, but there is a guilt association.
  257. 17:37So you either have to live with the guilt or dismiss God and his standard.
  258. 17:41So atheism does it all together.
  259. 17:44Religion just makes up your own standards.
  260. 17:47And you just always magically qualify under these standards you've made up.
  261. 17:51So you feel pretty good about yourself.
  262. 17:52And that's what religion is all about, whereas Christianity is truly a relationship with Jesus
  263. 17:57Christ.
  264. 17:58So interesting, there are some psychologists a few years ago who were frustrated because
  265. 18:03they saw young children playing with toys.
  266. 18:06And the children recognized that their toys were designed, they were made.
  267. 18:10And then they'd look at like a hummingbird and think, well, that was created and designed
  268. 18:14too because that's even more complex than the toys they had.
  269. 18:18And these psychologists were so frustrated, they said, we have to teach these kids how
  270. 18:23to think counterintuitively.
  271. 18:26Meaning, we know you think the hummingbird was designed, but no, that's just an accident
  272. 18:31of nature.
  273. 18:32maybe your toys were created in design, nature around you is. But it's instilled in them. God has
  274. 18:37put it there and you have to go out of your way to get rid of it. Yeah. Have you ever seen the
  275. 18:44regarding a designer, design is a product of a designer. Have you ever seen any presentations
  276. 18:52about woodpeckers. And, you know, their tongue retracts up in the skull much like a tape measure,
  277. 19:03you know, a spring-loaded tape measure. And I saw this incredible presentation by a colleague,
  278. 19:10Frank Figueroa, on how tape measures, they're like 24 steps in the assembly of a tape measure.
  279. 19:18I mean, if you've ever tried to put a tape measure back in the case, you know it takes
  280. 19:24about 10 sets of hands to try to do that.
  281. 19:28And yet the woodpecker, which is just one bird of the avian family, the tongue rolls up in
  282. 19:37its head.
  283. 19:39The brain has all this cushioning, so after hundreds of beats through the bark of a tree,
  284. 19:45brain is not damaged. Then the tongue, which has these reverse barbs, much like a fish hook,
  285. 19:52the tongue can go into the tree bark, retrieve a grub. There is a gland that secretes a glue
  286. 20:01on the end of the tongue, holds the bug. The tongue retracts like a tape measure, takes the
  287. 20:07bug to the mouth of the woodpecker. But because even a woodpecker doesn't need a stomach full
  288. 20:14of glue, there's a gland at the top of the mouth that secretes an enzyme that dissolves
  289. 20:20the glue.
  290. 20:21I mean, it's just the most fascinating, highly complex system, and yet that's just one creature
  291. 20:30among the millions that exist in creation.
  292. 20:35It's just impossible to believe that this just all came about randomly.
  293. 20:39Yeah, it is, unless you just don't want it to be true.
  294. 20:43I mean, the woodpecker is fascinating.
  295. 20:45You know, it's hitting that tree like a submachine gun,
  296. 20:48rapid fire, and it has to close its eyes each time too,
  297. 20:52because if it doesn't, its eyes will pop right out of its head.
  298. 20:54It's how much force it's hitting the tree with, much more force
  299. 20:57than the astronauts, you know, experience when they went to the moon.
  300. 21:00Won't get into all those details, but that, and then not only
  301. 21:04if it didn't dissolve the glue and would have glue in its stomach,
  302. 21:07it would have its tongue in its stomach, you know, choked it up.
  303. 21:10and there aren't intermediate forms along the way to develop.
  304. 21:14You need the whole system there to begin with.
  305. 21:16Sometimes when I give a talk on DNA,
  306. 21:18which we won't go into now,
  307. 21:20it is one of the most complex things that I know
  308. 21:22of in the way that I present it to.
  309. 21:24I've never in years,
  310. 21:25never had one skeptic ever even comment
  311. 21:28on what I just presented.
  312. 21:30But then they'll tell me there's no evidence for creation.
  313. 21:32I say, okay, I got a question for you.
  314. 21:33If that doesn't qualify as evidence of design,
  315. 21:36give me an example of something that would.
  316. 21:38just saw A, B or C and they've never ever come up with even close to an example.
  317. 21:42They just say, the evidence doesn't exist, but I don't know what it would look like.
  318. 21:46And they can't even imagine that.
  319. 21:48You know, again, we present things like the hummingbird and DNA and all that.
  320. 21:52That just screams design, but these people are spiritually blinded and don't want it to be true.
  321. 21:58Well, listen, this is the first of what I hope will be many conversations.
  322. 22:02Jay, Seger, I appreciate the work you're doing.
  323. 22:04Kind of give us a homework assignment to begin to ramp up on apologetics
  324. 22:10For the person listening who is you know interested and maybe kind of a beginner
  325. 22:16What sort of homework would you give us Jay?
  326. 22:19Well, there's two questions that every Christian needs a be able to answer very simply and succinctly
  327. 22:24They're the two most basic questions a skeptic or nathias could ask I would ask of eyes an atheist
  328. 22:29How do you know God exists? I mean no not just like well the world is beautiful
  329. 22:33No, how do you know God exists and how do you know the Bible is the inspired word of God when we fumble with those
  330. 22:39It's a huge red flag and if I was a skeptic, I wouldn't listen to anything else you had to say
  331. 22:44So realize you need to be able to have a short succinct answer for that and more detail for a longer conversation
  332. 22:51And there's a lot of great resources
  333. 22:53I've got a hundred and forty five plus podcasts out there and I go through those questions
  334. 22:57questions amongst many others, you know, the origin of the universe,
  335. 23:01existence of God, evidence for the inspiration of the Bible, creation
  336. 23:04versus evolution, pro-life, on and on and on. So those two
  337. 23:08questions start with that and make sure you've got those things down.
  338. 23:12Well Jay, you're doing a great work and you're you're quite an inspiration and I
  339. 23:16want to thank you for being with us tonight. I hope you and your family have
  340. 23:19just a blessed Thanksgiving and let's talk again soon.
  341. 23:23Sure appreciate the opportunity to be on the program. Again, the starting.com. Alex McFarland
  342. 23:30here, the American Family Radio Network. I want to queue up another just longtime friend and it's
  343. 23:36William J. Bill Federer of the American Minute. I've just been a huge fan of Bill Federer for so
  344. 23:43many years. And when I was a youth pastor every year, my graduating seniors that were going off to
  345. 23:49college, I would get them, I would go down to the Christian bookstore in Greensboro,
  346. 23:54North Carolina, and I would buy them Bill Federer's book, The Encyclopedia of God and
  347. 24:00Country Quotations. Never dreamed I'd get to meet the author of that compendium, but
  348. 24:06his name is Bill Federer, and I have to tell you, after years of being friends with Bill,
  349. 24:12colleagues, collaborators, this guy is everything I hoped he would be, and ten times more,
  350. 24:19He's gifted, he's godly, he's brilliant, and he's with us now.
  351. 24:23Happy early Thanksgiving, my friend Bill Federer.
  352. 24:26Well, Alex, great to be with you.
  353. 24:29It's good to be with you.
  354. 24:30I must ask, where are you?
  355. 24:32Are you on the road ministering, on the road speaking?
  356. 24:36What's up with Bill Federer, my friend?
  357. 24:38Yeah, yeah.
  358. 24:39Well, I'm back.
  359. 24:40I will be in Plymouth, Massachusetts this weekend with Pastor Neil Eaton, New Hope Chapel.
  360. 24:48He had one of about 2000 member church.
  361. 24:52It doubled in size after Charlie Kirk's death.
  362. 24:54Just amazing.
  363. 24:56And he has an ancestor that was on the Mayflower.
  364. 25:00And just a great light in that area of the world.
  365. 25:05And then this last weekend I was out in Orange, California.
  366. 25:09And the day before that I was in Fort Lauderdale,
  367. 25:12speaking for Jerry Newcomb at New Life Presbyterian.
  368. 25:15but I saw you, was that Jay Seger that you had on before me?
  369. 25:19That was Jay Seger and that friendship I'm indebted to you for.
  370. 25:23I met him completely through you, my friend.
  371. 25:27So thank you for that introduction.
  372. 25:30Yeah, well Jay is tremendous.
  373. 25:32He had my son and I go with him on a tour of the Grand Canyon.
  374. 25:35And boy, when he gave it from a creation point of view,
  375. 25:37it all made sense.
  376. 25:38It's like, wow, this is brilliant.
  377. 25:40So I've done that tour, well, not with Jay,
  378. 25:44But with folks from answers in Genesis,
  379. 25:47I had the great privilege of spending 11 nights
  380. 25:50in the Grand Canyon 10 years ago.
  381. 25:53And it really is exhibit A for the proof of the global flood,
  382. 25:57isn't it?
  383. 25:59Yeah, you know, he looked,
  384. 26:00and this is not on the topic of the pilgrims,
  385. 26:02but he said, now see all those lines of strata
  386. 26:04across the big cavern and the canyon?
  387. 26:08And he says, if any one of those lines
  388. 26:10been exposed to the elements for millions of years, it would have been eroded like the
  389. 26:16very top layer that you see goes up and down and up and down and up and down.
  390. 26:20This is the fact that every one of those lines is so smooth means that it got laid down with
  391. 26:25the water swishing back and forth over a short period of time.
  392. 26:28It's like, oh, that makes sense.
  393. 26:30Rapid barrel, rapid barrel.
  394. 26:32Well, I want to change gears.
  395. 26:33And folks just tuning in, Alex McFarland here, our very special guest, Bill Federer.
  396. 26:39And let's talk a little bit about Thanksgiving because this is very special.
  397. 26:46Growing up, what age bill did Thanksgiving and all of the implications and the history
  398. 26:54behind it, would it kind of click for you, Bill, and you understood it all?
  399. 26:59Oh, we loved it.
  400. 27:01My grandparents, my granddad was a builder in St. Louis.
  401. 27:06built like 30 subdivisions and had this massive house right across from Crondollet Park. And
  402. 27:11so all the cousins and everybody would come and we would just have a great big event there.
  403. 27:18And so it was fun memories. But anyway, we knew it was family time and sort of a little
  404. 27:29bit about the pilgrims. But as I got older, I tell people when I really became a Christian
  405. 27:36as an adult. It was like turning the corner on a cornfield and you see the rose line up.
  406. 27:40It's like all of a sudden the same history that before seems sort of ran now, it's got
  407. 27:45had a plan, a providential plan for freedom to spread so that people could worship God freely.
  408. 27:52God loves you and He wants you to love Him back before love, to be loved, must be voluntary.
  409. 27:56And so this movement toward this and then also that you could be all that God has you to
  410. 28:02be instead of what some king or what some government demands, you can pursue your dreams
  411. 28:06and hopefully have some of his will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
  412. 28:11Amen.
  413. 28:12Amen.
  414. 28:13So what are some things about Thanksgiving that you would like people to know that maybe Americans
  415. 28:19of 2025 have not known?
  416. 28:23What's some of the back story that we really ought to know about Bill?
  417. 28:27Yeah, I put together a book.
  418. 28:28It's called The Treacherous World of the 16th Century and How the Pilgrims Have Skated.
  419. 28:32So I go through what is going on in the 1500s before the Pilgrims and you have the Muslims
  420. 28:37conquering North Africa and the Muslims conquering Syria and the Muslim conquering Turkey, it used
  421. 28:42to be the Byzantine Christian Empire, conquering Constantinople which caused Columbus to look
  422. 28:47for a sea route to India and China.
  423. 28:49And they're in surrounding Vienna, Austria.
  424. 28:51And so all these scholars are fleeing the Muslim invasion west with their Greek New Testaments
  425. 28:57and it lays the foundation for the Reformation.
  426. 29:00And so Martin Luther starts the Reformation and quickly you have one denomination per
  427. 29:06country in Europe.
  428. 29:07Right?
  429. 29:08So it used to be all Catholic and now England is Anglican.
  430. 29:11Scotland is Presbyterian.
  431. 29:13Holland is Dutch Reformed.
  432. 29:15Switzerland is Calvinist.
  433. 29:18Northern Germany and Sweden are Lutheran.
  434. 29:20Italy is Maine, France, Austria, Poland, state Catholic.
  435. 29:23Greece was Greek Orthodox, Russia was Russian Orthodox.
  436. 29:25It was one denomination per country.
  437. 29:28if you didn't believe the way your king did, you were persecuted, you fled and mass migration
  438. 29:31of people shifting around Europe for conscience sake.
  439. 29:35And so you have Catherine de Medici, Queen of France.
  440. 29:39Here is 1572.
  441. 29:41She does not like the fact that 10% of France is now Protestant Huguenot.
  442. 29:46So she has a wedding with her daughter Margaret and the main Huguenot leader Henry of Navarre
  443. 29:51in Paris.
  444. 29:52And a couple of days after the wedding, they're all celebrating.
  445. 29:54She hasn't pulled chains across the street.
  446. 29:56So the carriages can't go out of town.
  447. 29:58Those are soldiers' househouse.
  448. 29:59They kill 30,000 of these Huguenot leaders.
  449. 30:02Throws their body in the Sainte River.
  450. 30:04Same thing in 1572.
  451. 30:07The Spanish control the Netherlands.
  452. 30:10And King Philipus, Spain sends the Iron Duke of Alba.
  453. 30:12He kills 10,000 dutchered forms in Antwerp, Belgium.
  454. 30:16It is a serious thing not to believe the way your king does.
  455. 30:19So now we go to England.
  456. 30:21England has Henry VIII.
  457. 30:23He was originally Catholic, married to Catherine of Aragon, the daughter of the
  458. 30:28King of Spain. After 18 years, no son, Henry decides to divorce her. The pope won't recognize
  459. 30:33the divorce, so Henry decides to make himself his own pope. Starts the church of England, puts
  460. 30:38himself on as the head, goes on to have six wives.
  461. 30:42So I got asked his vote, forgive me. So was the church of England really started largely
  462. 30:48so Henry VIII could divorce his wife, Catherine? Yes, yes, 100%. And so I'm just trying to get
  463. 30:57my mind around that. That's pretty wild. Yeah, yeah, Sir Thomas Moore was his chancellor
  464. 31:04who was Catholic and he really liked him, but he wanted to stay Catholic and he didn't want
  465. 31:09to flip and give his approval. And so, you know, there's a whole movie about it. And, you know,
  466. 31:14Henry the A says, you know, oh, you know, why don't you flip it? You know, Sir Thomas
  467. 31:19Moore and he says, no, I'm sorry, I can have to kill you. And then they like read the
  468. 31:23sentence. They'll have to be drawn and quartered and his intestines drug out. And then they said,
  469. 31:28well, we'll just be really nice. We'll just be head you. It's like, Oh, thanks a lot. And so,
  470. 31:32very kind of you. And so Henry the eighth had this hierarchical church with the Archbishop of
  471. 31:39Canterbury underneath them, and then the Deeneries and Vickers and Curates and Directors and priests.
  472. 31:44Well, his advisors suggested if he's serious about breaking from Rome, he needs to stop using the
  473. 31:50Latin Bible. And he said the German princes at Martin Luther's German Bible, that helped
  474. 31:56them to break away. You need to get yourself an English Bible. Well, he just had William
  475. 32:00Tyndale killed a few years earlier for translating Bible into the best translators on the planet.
  476. 32:06Yeah. And so Henry was still Catholic at that time. And so he had William Tyndale killed.
  477. 32:12But now that he wants to break away from the Catholic Church, he needs an English Bible.
  478. 32:17And so they take Tyndall's work, and by the way, Tyndall's last words were Lord open the
  479. 32:21King of England's eyes.
  480. 32:23So they take Tyndall's work, polish it up, they call it the Great Bible, Henry likes it,
  481. 32:27orders a copy put in every church in England.
  482. 32:30And this is the first Bible called the Great Bible that the common people in England can
  483. 32:35read for themselves.
  484. 32:37And he doesn't stand to it.
  485. 32:38A bill for forgiveness.
  486. 32:39I beg your forgiveness.
  487. 32:40We've got to take a break.
  488. 32:41Hold that thought, folks.
  489. 32:42You don't want to miss the riveting story of how the Bible got put into English.
  490. 32:46So very, very quickly, what's your website?
  491. 32:49AmericanMinute.com.
  492. 32:51AmericanMinute.com, Alex McFarland here with Bill Federer states, into the American Family
  493. 32:54Radio Network.
  494. 32:55We're back after this brief break.
  495. 32:58More about the history of Thanksgiving and what we can do to preserve it in the 21st century.
  496. 33:08Thoughts of the child you were carrying keep poring over in your mind.
  497. 33:12A deep unrelenting sadness over shadows your days and you wonder if you will ever feel whole
  498. 33:18again.
  499. 33:19There is hope and healing from a reproductive loss.
  500. 33:23Call the International Helpline 866-482-LIFE and talk with someone who has been where you
  501. 33:30are.
  502. 33:31Your call is confidential and we will help you find healing.
  503. 33:35866-482-LIFE.
  504. 33:38What is the most important truth that you'll ever hear?
  505. 33:42Here's Pastor Jeff Shreve.
  506. 33:44What is the message of the cross of Jesus Christ?
  507. 33:48The cross of Jesus Christ just screams out,
  508. 33:52I love you.
  509. 33:56Discover the power that is available to you
  510. 33:58through the cross of Christ,
  511. 34:00during Pastor Jeff Shreve on front his heart,
  512. 34:02each weeknight at six central,
  513. 34:04here on American Family Radio.
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  515. 34:12What if it could reflect faith, foster community,
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  518. 34:19The mission goes beyond medical bills.
  519. 34:21It's about honoring Christ and embracing healthcare
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  521. 34:27Redeem members share medical expenses
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  535. 35:04More at RedeemHealthShare.org.
  536. 35:12The Hamilton Quarter podcast
  537. 35:14and one-minute commentaries are available at AFR.net,
  538. 35:17back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
  539. 35:22Alex McFarland here wishing all of you just a wonderful blessed Thanksgiving and we're getting
  540. 35:28a very, very beneficial history lesson from our beloved colleague and friend Bill Federer.
  541. 35:34Bill before the break, you were talking about how the Bible was put into English.
  542. 35:39Henry VIII needed an English Bible.
  543. 35:43William Tyndale, a fantastic translator, was executed sadly.
  544. 35:49So they took his work and were you saying they were they created what is called the great Bible?
  545. 35:54Was that where we were?
  546. 35:56Yeah, yeah, Matthew Coverdale and then the great Bible and it was just 80% of Tindles work
  547. 36:02and they show it to King Henry and he says I like it put it in every church in England and
  548. 36:06He dusted his hands and goes I think we broke it from our own
  549. 36:08we got it where I got our own English Bible but something unexpected happened and people began to read it and
  550. 36:12and people wanted to purify the Church of England.
  551. 36:16And the King didn't like being purified,
  552. 36:18so we persecuted them and canceled them,
  553. 36:19and they lost their jobs, these Puritans.
  554. 36:22And then there's another group that said,
  555. 36:23we're just gonna separate ourselves.
  556. 36:24We're gonna meet in secret,
  557. 36:26and they call themselves Baptist, we call them pilgrims.
  558. 36:29And so they would have their little home,
  559. 36:36their William Brewster's home, it's a manor,
  560. 36:38it's a really nice big home in Scruby, England,
  561. 36:40and they would meet and they would get raided and put in jail.
  562. 36:44And then they would get out and put in jail.
  563. 36:45And one group of these pilgrim separatists
  564. 36:48sell their property by passage on a ship.
  565. 36:50But before the ship takes off the captain Robsum,
  566. 36:52turns him over to the police to put in jail.
  567. 36:54And then another group of pilgrim separatists arranged
  568. 36:56for a Dutch ship to sail up the coast
  569. 36:58and they would be waiting in rowboats
  570. 37:00and row out there and sail away,
  571. 37:02but the pilgrims show up a day early.
  572. 37:04And it's wavy and the women and children
  573. 37:06want to wait on shore and the ship shows up,
  574. 37:08the men are stowing the stuff and somebody snitches.
  575. 37:10Please come over the hill and capture the women and children.
  576. 37:13And the Dutch captain sails away with the men.
  577. 37:16You can just watch these women and children watching
  578. 37:17that ship getting smaller and smaller
  579. 37:19and disappearing over the horizon.
  580. 37:20For two years they passed those women and children
  581. 37:22from one jail to another.
  582. 37:24Finally the judge said you didn't do anything wrong.
  583. 37:26Go home, they go, duh, we sold our homes.
  584. 37:28So just to get them out of their hair,
  585. 37:29they sent them over to Holland.
  586. 37:30And they finally found their husbands.
  587. 37:32They settled in Leiden, Holland,
  588. 37:33which interestingly enough,
  589. 37:35when Ferdinand and Isabella drove the Jews out of Spain,
  590. 37:38many of them went to light in Holland.
  591. 37:41And so the pilgrims began identifying with the Jews
  592. 37:43saying, you left the feral, we left the king of England,
  593. 37:45you crossed the Red Sea, we crossed the English Channel,
  594. 37:48you found your problems, we're looking for ours.
  595. 37:50And so they're there for 12 years,
  596. 37:52their kids are assimilating and becoming Dutch
  597. 37:55and they realize there are gonna be
  598. 37:57a one generation movement.
  599. 37:58Spain threatens to attack, again,
  600. 38:00it's an 80 year war of independence
  601. 38:01for the Netherlands to break away from Spain.
  602. 38:04So the pilgrims think of going to Guyana, South America,
  603. 38:07and because they heard of the perpetual spring,
  604. 38:10but then they remembered in 1565,
  605. 38:12a bunch of the French Protestant Huguenots
  606. 38:15tried to settle in Florida around Jacksonville,
  607. 38:18and the Spanish found out about it
  608. 38:19and butchered 300 of the men
  609. 38:21and sold the women and children and took them away.
  610. 38:24So the pilgrims said,
  611. 38:25we don't want to go anywhere near where Spain controls.
  612. 38:28And then the pilgrims decide on Jamestown,
  613. 38:31and they get blown off course in a storm.
  614. 38:33It's a good thing they didn't make it to Jamestown,
  615. 38:35because 4,000 people died in Jamestown from 1607 to 1624.
  616. 38:40They had the starting time.
  617. 38:42One winter, they start off with 500,
  618. 38:44they end the winter with 50.
  619. 38:46And then in 1622, they had an Indian massacre,
  620. 38:49they wiped out a quarter of the population of Virginia.
  621. 38:53So if the pilgrim said landed there,
  622. 38:55they probably would have gotten killed.
  623. 38:56But providentially, they get blown off course
  624. 38:59to Massachusetts.
  625. 39:01They land and they have a problem.
  626. 39:03there's no king appointed person in their group.
  627. 39:06There's 102 of them, nobody's been picked by the king.
  628. 39:08They don't want to just get off the boat, be lawless.
  629. 39:10And so they do something unique.
  630. 39:12They take their little covenant church group
  631. 39:15and they make it their civil government.
  632. 39:16It's called the Mayflower Compact.
  633. 39:18We, in the presence of God,
  634. 39:20covenant ourselves into a civil body politic.
  635. 39:25A church group becoming a political group?
  636. 39:28Wow.
  637. 39:29And so this is a polarity change in the floor power.
  638. 39:31set a top down rule by kings and Caesars and Pharaohs and sultans and Maharajas and Genghis Khan,
  639. 39:37Julius Caesar, and it's rule bottom up by we. Just the under and do of us. We're just going to agree on it.
  640. 39:43And they got their idea from the Bible, what part of the Bible? That first 400 years out of Egypt
  641. 39:48before Israel got a king. It's called the Hebrew Republic. Around 1400 BC to 1000 BC,
  642. 39:53you have millions of Israelites and no king. And it works because everybody's taught the law
  643. 39:59and everybody's personally accountable to God to follow the law. It's called the Hebrew Republic.
  644. 40:04And the self-government system can only work with the God of the Bible. It can't work for long
  645. 40:10in a Greek democracy with a goddess of Aphrodite that has temple prostitutes. There's no concept
  646. 40:15of a just God. No, it worked in Israel. And now God knew they would sin. So once a year they had
  647. 40:20the Day of Atonement and everybody sins are forgiven and they start the New Year off of the
  648. 40:23clean slate. Obviously that's for shadowing Jesus. Sure.
  649. 40:26The system worked in ancient Israel for four centuries until the priest went
  650. 40:31woke. The Levites went rainbow church. They're like, oh, he can sin. Yeah, he
  651. 40:35lied. The high priest is on. Sons are sleeping with women in the tent where
  652. 40:39the ark of the covenant is. It turns into chaos. Every man does which right in their own eyes.
  653. 40:43They go to Samuel of prophet and they say, this isn't working anymore. We want to be like the
  654. 40:46other countries. We want a king. And Samuel cries and the Lord says they didn't
  655. 40:50reject you, they reject to me. Why is the story important? Kings of Europe look to the Bible for
  656. 40:55their authority. They look to the King Saul and after and the pilgrims and Puritans look to the Bible
  657. 41:01for their authority, but they look to the before King Saul period, the Hebrew Republic. So that's
  658. 41:06why they taught Hebrew at Yale and Harvard. And so after the pilgrims, you have the Great Puritans
  659. 41:12migration, 20,000 Puritans come across and you had pastors and churches found in cities.
  660. 41:18So you had a pastor, Thomas Hooker, and his congregational church founded the city of Hartford, Connecticut.
  661. 41:25And the pastor, Roger Williams, in the first Baptist church in America founded the city of Providence, Rhode Island, right?
  662. 41:31Church's founding cities. Yeah.
  663. 41:33But anyway, the Oskinis said covenantal ideas in England were the lost cause, but they became the winning cause in New England.
  664. 41:44England, Covenant-shaped constitutionalism, American Constitution is a nationalized secularized
  665. 41:50form of Covenant, Covenant lies behind Constitution. And the word federal is Latin for Covenant.
  666. 41:56We have a Covenant form of government in America that can be traced back to the pilgrims, that
  667. 41:59can be traced back to the Bible that first 400 years before Israel got a king.
  668. 42:03Bill, I've got to ask you this. Does it weary you to endlessly in the American media today
  669. 42:10here talked about our democracy this, our democracy that, democracy, democracy, democracy, when we're
  670. 42:17not a democracy, we're a represent, a Judeo-Christian representative republic. Does that point ever
  671. 42:24just stick in your crawl? Yeah, yeah, it is confusing. Now, it was basically
  672. 42:31Harry Estrumman that popularized the term democracy as a general reference to a popular
  673. 42:41government where the population is involved in ruling themselves. His inaugural address
  674. 42:441949, a half a dozen times, Harry Estrumman says, democracy, we believe in freedom and communism
  675. 42:50doesn't and we believe in, you know, opportunity and communism doesn't. So he's the one that put in
  676. 42:57in in in in print the idea of democracy having this general
  677. 43:04definition. But as a functioning former government, it only worked on a small scale
  678. 43:08like Athens, a city state where every citizen is at every meeting every day to talk about
  679. 43:13every issue. And because it's the crowd, it can get swept up with emotion. And Socrates
  680. 43:19talked about an admiral who fought a naval battle in one, but in a storm didn't rescue
  681. 43:25all the sailors, gets back to Athens and the people get so whipped up in a frenzy, they
  682. 43:29kill him.
  683. 43:30And then afterwards they feel bad, but it's too late.
  684. 43:32He's dead.
  685. 43:33And so Socrates says, this democracy is mobocracy.
  686. 43:36And so that's where Plato comes along and he says, you know, the best form of government
  687. 43:41is a top down, you know, philosopher, king, tyrant and his arms and chest of silver.
  688. 43:46And so Plato is the first one that basically talked about socialism.
  689. 43:50By the way, the pilgrims had no money.
  690. 43:52They had to borrow from investors in England who right up wrote up by laws that said everything
  691. 43:58would be owned in common for seven years.
  692. 44:01Everything got by cooking, trucking, and trade would go into e-common stock and everybody's
  693. 44:08provisions would come out of e-common stock.
  694. 44:12And William Brever said they tried it and almost starved to death.
  695. 44:15He said, the failure of that experiment of communal service, which was tried for several
  696. 44:19here is by good and honest men and proves the emptiness of the theory of Plato applauded
  697. 44:24by some of the latter times. So Plato was theoretical. Sir Thomas Moore's Utopia, island
  698. 44:30of Utopia was theoretical. It's all theoretical. But the pilgrims are the first ones that are
  699. 44:33actually trying to live out everybody owning everything in common.
  700. 44:38And it didn't work. Yeah, he said the young man who was most able and fit for service objected
  701. 44:43to being forced to spend his time working for other men's wives and children without any
  702. 44:47recompense. The strong man had no more share of food clothes, etc., than the weaker one who
  703. 44:53could not do a quarter of the work. The aged men considered it an indignity and disrespect
  704. 44:58to be ranked in labor with the younger. And as for men's wives who were obliged to do service
  705. 45:04for other men such as cooking, washing their clothes, etc., they considered it a kind of slavery.
  706. 45:10And he says, let none argue that this is due to human failing rather than to this
  707. 45:13communistic plan of life in itself.
  708. 45:16And it goes that after much discussion,
  709. 45:19it was decided that every family would be assigned
  710. 45:21a parcel of land.
  711. 45:23This made all very hands more industrious.
  712. 45:26Much more corn was planted.
  713. 45:28The women now went willingly into the field
  714. 45:31and took their little ones with them to plant corn.
  715. 45:33Well, before they would allege weakness
  716. 45:35and to have compelled them,
  717. 45:36what about been thought great oppression?
  718. 45:38So here the pilgrims tried everybody owning everything
  719. 45:40and commented, found it demotivated everybody.
  720. 45:43but you get your own plot of land and you get what comes out of it.
  721. 45:46Hey kid, we're going to plant today.
  722. 45:48Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
  723. 45:51And then it took 40, 40 years to pay off their debt to those investors.
  724. 45:56They did it with beaver skins. Why did it take so long? Well, one time was a
  725. 45:59Muslim pirate ship in 1625 captures one of the pilgrimships packed with 800 pounds of
  726. 46:07beaver skins, captures it in the English channel, takes the crew to Morocco and
  727. 46:11sells them into slavery. The Sultan in Morocco, Boulejes Mal, had over 25,000 Europeans that
  728. 46:18he had captured and made slaves, built him a palace at Meccanese, and he had 500 wives
  729. 46:23that bore him a record, 1,042 children. This is the Sultan in Morocco at the same time.
  730. 46:29And then, just I have to, for a minute or two, say, Squanto. So, religious, not everybody
  731. 46:36else was and you had bad people luring Indians on the boat for trade and then say, hey, you
  732. 46:41want to see below deck and they would lock him below deck, take him to Malaga, Spain,
  733. 46:44Selamina, and to slavery. That's what happened to Squanto. Some Franciscan friars got custody
  734. 46:50of him, gave him his freedom. He makes his way back to England, works there for several
  735. 46:53years, learns the language, works for the Newfoundland Company. And then he finally has
  736. 46:58dropped off on the coast of America in June of 1620, only to find his whole tribe was
  737. 47:03dead. William Bradford said a friendship had shipped right there a couple years earlier
  738. 47:08and evidently one of them must have had a survivor had an illness wiped out the tribe. Had Squanto
  739. 47:14not been kidnapped, he probably would have died too. But nevertheless he comes back,
  740. 47:17everybody's dead lives with a neighboring Wampanoag tribe. And so now it's the spring of 1621.
  741. 47:25The first Thanksgiving where they celebrated with like 90 Native Americans, was that the
  742. 47:31Womp it, no egg. If I'm not the man's
  743. 47:34who I yeah chief mass is so I but it was
  744. 47:37Squanto that was their interpreter. So they
  745. 47:40were able to be friends with the Indians.
  746. 47:42So the first Thanksgiving 90 Indian show up
  747. 47:45on 52 pilgrims, right? And get this only for adult
  748. 47:50women.
  749. 47:51You're adult women cooking for 142 people.
  750. 47:54Right. Now they did have 24 men and
  751. 47:5624 teenagers and young people. But
  752. 47:59But that was the classic first Thanksgiving that we've probably all read about in school,
  753. 48:07right?
  754. 48:08Yeah, yeah.
  755. 48:09And now I have to mention, so Chief Massasoy gets sick and the Pilgrim, Edward Winslow,
  756. 48:17nurses him back to health and it ends up with a 50-year piece as a result.
  757. 48:23One of the fine print is, if you doctor a chief and he dies, you die.
  758. 48:26So it was sort of risky there.
  759. 48:29Now I have to throw in Squanto dies.
  760. 48:33William Bradford says they were exploring,
  761. 48:35they were caught in a boat and freezing rain,
  762. 48:37they put into Manamoyic Bay and Squanto fell ill
  763. 48:39of Indian fever and then he begged the governor
  764. 48:43to pray for him that he might go to the Englishman's God
  765. 48:47in heaven.
  766. 48:49So here he is, the Englishman or the pilgrims
  767. 48:51and he's seeing their faith firsthand for several years.
  768. 48:54And he's like, you guys are real
  769. 48:55and you have a relationship with,
  770. 48:57I want to go to your God.
  771. 48:59I believe William Bradford led him in the prayer of salvation.
  772. 49:02Amen.
  773. 49:04But anyway, all this is in a book.
  774. 49:06It's called The Treacherous World of the 16th Century,
  775. 49:08How the Pilgrims Escaped It.
  776. 49:10And my website's americanmina.com, if anybody's interested.
  777. 49:14And folks, I want to say, and by the way,
  778. 49:17Alex McFarlane here along with our very special guest,
  779. 49:19Bill Federer, my wife and I have a shelf full
  780. 49:23of Bill Federer books.
  781. 49:25and we love miracles in American history and from change to chains and so many more.
  782. 49:33Give it one of the titles we've only got about a minute perhaps Bill but maybe your top three
  783. 49:37or four best sellers that you recommend and folks I cannot emphasize enough how these
  784. 49:43books will help you and inspire you.
  785. 49:46What are your top three or four sellers Bill?
  786. 49:48Well the miracles in American history is one we have two volumes of that.
  787. 49:52in our country's past, Revolution War of 1812, Civil War,
  788. 49:56Barbrae Pirate War, Collar Epidemic 1849,
  789. 49:59where there's a crisis, they pray and have courage
  790. 50:00and things turn around.
  791. 50:02Another is the book on socialism,
  792. 50:04the real history from Plato to the present
  793. 50:06and how it's a bait and switch for dictatorship.
  794. 50:09Another is a book on Islam.
  795. 50:11It's called, What Every American Needs to Know About the
  796. 50:13Quran, a history of Islam in the United States.
  797. 50:15It goes through the 1400 year history,
  798. 50:17how Muhammad started off as a religious leader.
  799. 50:20Then he became a political leader.
  800. 50:21Then he became a military leader, Muhammad fought in 66 battles and raids, killing 3000
  801. 50:26people.
  802. 50:27Your website one more time, Bill.
  803. 50:29Your website.
  804. 50:30It's americanmina.com.
  805. 50:32Folks, we're almost out of time, Bill Federer.
  806. 50:34Thank you.
  807. 50:35Thanks to all of you for listening.
  808. 50:36Happy Thanksgiving.
  809. 50:37May God bless you.
  810. 50:38Tell somebody about AFR, but tell everybody about Jesus.
  811. 50:45The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the
  812. 50:49American Family Association or American Family Radio.

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