The Hamilton Corner

November 21, 2025 · 48:48

Guest Host, Dr. Alex McFarland, is joined by Dr. Drew Dickens, an expert in the faith world on AI

Culture & Media

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Guest Host, Dr. Alex McFarland, is joined by Dr. Drew Dickens, an expert in the faith world on AI | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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  1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
  2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
  3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
  5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
  6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
  7. 0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
  8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
  9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
  10. 0:28and now, the Hamilton Corner.
  11. 0:32Well, good evening.
  12. 0:36Master and journalist Abe Hamilton the third.
  13. 0:39Very honored for the times that I get to sit in.
  14. 0:43If you recognize my voice, it's probably
  15. 0:45from a show called Exploring the Word.
  16. 0:48And I've got the privilege of Monday through Friday.
  17. 0:50We have a live Bible teaching and call in question program,
  18. 0:54exploring the word.
  19. 0:56But when Abe is traveling or out of the office,
  20. 1:00Sometimes I get to sit in for him and this is one of those days and this is a program
  21. 1:05I've looked forward to for a long time because we have a very very special guest to talk about
  22. 1:11one of the most commonly asked questions on exploring the word people call and ask about
  23. 1:17the rise of AI.
  24. 1:20And so we're going to talk for this show about artificial intelligence.
  25. 1:24Is it good or bad?
  26. 1:26Is there a digital war being waged for our souls?
  27. 1:30And so we're very privileged to have an expert on the subject.
  28. 1:34Dr. Drew Dickens holds a doctorate in theological anthropology from Southern Methodist and a
  29. 1:40master's from DTS, just one of the most respected theological schools in the world, Dallas Seminary.
  30. 1:48And his doctoral research was a study of the impact of generative artificial intelligence
  31. 1:56on the field of spiritual direction and spiritual inquiry, and very privileged, this most relevant
  32. 2:04of subjects, very privileged to get to know this colleague and hear from him today on AI
  33. 2:11and spirituality. Dr. Drew Dickens, thank you and welcome to the American Family Radio
  34. 2:16Network.
  35. 2:18Alex, big fan of the network and what an honor and privilege is to be with you guys.
  36. 2:24Well, it's great to be with you and I look forward to hearing about your research and your
  37. 2:28insights.
  38. 2:29But so, you know, before the show, you and I were talking off air and just getting acquainted
  39. 2:35and I kind of feel like I've known you a long time.
  40. 2:39I feel like I've made a new friend.
  41. 2:40But tell us about your journey and your background and how God brought you to where you are in
  42. 2:47your life and ministry at this point.
  43. 2:50Absolutely.
  44. 2:51Yeah, and likewise, it's like we met in junior high or something, it is kind of getting reacquainted.
  45. 2:57Follower of Christ, cleverly disguised as a husband but one wife, coming up on 40,
  46. 3:05that's impossible, 43 years that in college at Baylor, thank you very much.
  47. 3:12Cleverly disguised as a dad, two grown sons,
  48. 3:18and my proudest accomplishment is a granddad.
  49. 3:22So I'm pop to two amazing grand sons
  50. 3:26and have the privilege of living here in Dallas
  51. 3:30with them nearby, and so that's a real joy.
  52. 3:33Came to Christ, became aware of God's calling in my life
  53. 3:37in sixth grade at a Billy Graham crusade
  54. 3:41and went there with my Cub Scout pack
  55. 3:45just to see the inside of Texas stadium.
  56. 3:47Had no idea who Billy Graham was.
  57. 3:49I just had never seen AstroTurf, so we went
  58. 3:51and went down on the 20-yard line
  59. 3:54and gave my life to the Lord and freaked out my parents
  60. 3:58who had no idea about how to disciple that.
  61. 4:01And so I just started pouring into everything I could read
  62. 4:04and get my hands on.
  63. 4:06And I went into full-time vocational ministry,
  64. 4:1020-some odd years ago with a ministry called Need Him that I launched.
  65. 4:14It's an evangelism response ministry with the Billy Graham organization and campus crusade
  66. 4:19and a bunch of others.
  67. 4:20And then joined up with a prayer app called Abide 10 years ago and helped that get started.
  68. 4:28And that was a blast.
  69. 4:29A bunch of 20-year-old PhDs from Stanford that are all engineers at Google wanted to do something
  70. 4:35for the kingdom.
  71. 4:36And so got to be a part of that.
  72. 4:37They needed an old man with a seminary degree.
  73. 4:40And so about six years ago started in Counter, which is a daily meditation on a verse of the
  74. 4:48day with the U-version Bible app, and who just celebrated a billion downloads this weekend,
  75. 4:55this past weekend.
  76. 4:56And then AI and spirituality has been a fascination of mine, the crossroads of theology and technology
  77. 5:04at seminary, kept writing on that. And then four or five years ago decided to pursue a doctorate.
  78. 5:12And AI was, well, it's been around since World War II, but Chad GPT hadn't even launched.
  79. 5:19So it was tough to get a return phone call, but now everybody wants to be on their podcast. So
  80. 5:24the timing is fantastic. So a little about my journey.
  81. 5:29Isn't it true that very often great moves of God, revivals, awakenings, run parallel
  82. 5:40to technological breakthroughs?
  83. 5:43I think about printing in the Gutenberg Bible and not too long thereafter came the Protestant
  84. 5:49Reformation.
  85. 5:51You mentioned going to a Billy Graham event and Billy Graham was one of the first to really
  86. 5:56harness the power of television.
  87. 6:00Absolutely.
  88. 6:02We're living, I mean, every day's news cycle is populated by articles about NVIDIA and AI
  89. 6:09and could it be, for all the draconian warnings we've heard about computers are bad and things
  90. 6:17like that, could it be that the technological advancements of this moment might be a bit
  91. 6:26be harnessed for the power of the gospel.
  92. 6:29And I mean, I know this, I'll say this,
  93. 6:31and then I will throw it to you.
  94. 6:33We have listeners on American Family Radio,
  95. 6:37our program exploring the word.
  96. 6:39We have gotten much mail from Saudi Arabia,
  97. 6:43from places that missionaries might not necessarily go.
  98. 6:49And so I actually think, you know, the World Wide Web
  99. 6:54and possibly AI is going to be used by God for the fulfillment of the Great Commission.
  100. 7:00But what do you say? The breakthroughs of technology and spiritual awakenings, are they in any way related?
  101. 7:11Absolutely. And of course, it's to the glory of God. Everything exists for His glory.
  102. 7:18So, and let's don't end in our time together today
  103. 7:22without talking about the benefits
  104. 7:25and how God will be, I believe, glorified through this.
  105. 7:30It's easy to go dark and dystopian fairly quickly
  106. 7:33in the conversations.
  107. 7:34A lot of the news cycles that you mentioned
  108. 7:36have a clickbait element to it.
  109. 7:39I'm much more likely to click on an article
  110. 7:41about robots taking over whatever than I am,
  111. 7:45some of the benefits.
  112. 7:46but let's please carve out some time
  113. 7:48that we can talk about that.
  114. 7:50Because I agree with you 100%.
  115. 7:52I think though this is different.
  116. 7:54A lot of when I was in seminary,
  117. 7:55I was writing about our relationship with technology
  118. 7:58as people of faith over time,
  119. 8:02not to get too much in the weeds,
  120. 8:04but you can even go back to the Urim and the Thumum devices
  121. 8:09that the prophets used in the ancient of times
  122. 8:13to inquire God.
  123. 8:15we look at in the New Testament, even casting a lot, right?
  124. 8:18So we're always wanting to engage
  125. 8:21with some kind of inanimate object to draw closer
  126. 8:24to a divine encounter.
  127. 8:28So that this isn't new.
  128. 8:29I think this technology though,
  129. 8:31this major technological shift that I believe
  130. 8:35we are in the midst of right now,
  131. 8:37because they've all rewritten culture.
  132. 8:39Absolutely, you were pointing on in mentioning Gutenberg
  133. 8:42and early advances in radio.
  134. 8:44some of the first radio programs were preachers,
  135. 8:47and Billy Graham on TV and the internet.
  136. 8:50But AI is, I think, different.
  137. 8:53It aims to, as opposed to earlier technologies,
  138. 8:58it aims to imitate the human soul.
  139. 9:03And imitate is, even within the name,
  140. 9:06artificial intelligence.
  141. 9:08So it's all about imitation.
  142. 9:10And I think that's different.
  143. 9:11I don't think we engage with the printing press,
  144. 9:14we engage with casting of lots and are able to differentiate that from who we are as humans.
  145. 9:23AI is different.
  146. 9:25AI is artificial general intelligence, artificial super intelligence are levels yet to come.
  147. 9:33But I think what's different about AI is its ability to imitate who we are and that should
  148. 9:40wake up every Christian right now.
  149. 9:43Let me ask you this, Dr. Dickens, you wrote a dissertation on, oh, thank you, generative
  150. 9:50artificial, now what does that mean?
  151. 9:53Help us understand what is AI and what is generative AI?
  152. 10:02Well generative is in the name GPT, which everybody's familiar with, Chad GPT.
  153. 10:06So GPT stands for generative retrained transformer.
  154. 10:11So generative, simply enough, is a form of AI that generates content.
  155. 10:18So I can go into chat GPT.
  156. 10:21I can go into any context window on any language model,
  157. 10:25and type a question as you do in a Google context window.
  158. 10:30Type in a question, and it generates a response.
  159. 10:33Or I can ask it to, hey, draw me a picture of a cat,
  160. 10:36and it will generate an image of a cat.
  161. 10:39So generative AI is just that.
  162. 10:41It generates content.
  163. 10:46We can talk about whether it's original content or not,
  164. 10:49but it generates something.
  165. 10:51It can generate some text or a picture or music
  166. 10:54or wherever your mind can take you.
  167. 10:58There's the next phase.
  168. 10:59If you feel like, you know, I've missed the boat on AI,
  169. 11:01it's already that ship is sailed.
  170. 11:03I've missed the wave.
  171. 11:05Well, the next wave pass generative AI is agent AI,
  172. 11:10and just take the word agent and put IC on the end of it.
  173. 11:13So it's agent driven agent AI.
  174. 11:17And that takes generative AI to the next level.
  175. 11:21So instead, the example I use is,
  176. 11:27well, a timely example is it's Christmas coming up.
  177. 11:31Could you generate a list of some ideas for gifts
  178. 11:35that I might get my wife, Bob, done.
  179. 11:38That's easy.
  180. 11:39So it will generate a list.
  181. 11:41A gintech AI will actually go out,
  182. 11:43find the best, it will read my wife's Instagram feed,
  183. 11:49it will make the decision which gift is best to get her.
  184. 11:52It'll find those gifts on Amazon,
  185. 11:54choose the most efficient or the cheapest one,
  186. 11:57and then ping my credit card.
  187. 11:58So an agent is like a travel agent, if you will,
  188. 12:02that will go out and yes, it will book an airline,
  189. 12:04but it will also book your rental car,
  190. 12:06your cruise package, everything kind of for you.
  191. 12:09So that's a gintic AI would be kind of the next wave
  192. 12:13of AI from there.
  193. 12:16So let me figure out how to ask this.
  194. 12:22Chat, GPT and the platforms,
  195. 12:25they perform tasks when asked to do so.
  196. 12:29We could go on and say,
  197. 12:31please give me the world's greatest chocolate chip cookie recipe, and it would regurgitate
  198. 12:39and give that. To what degree are you aware that AI is voluntarily generating content on
  199. 12:48its own without having been asked by a human being?
  200. 12:55Currently, when you say, am I aware of, right now, I think we're limited by that's not
  201. 13:05these conversations get outdated so quickly. So as of today at this moment,
  202. 13:11there are community guidelines, there are limitations with technology, where autonomy,
  203. 13:18which would be the word I think we're looking for, autonomous direction within AI is fairly limited.
  204. 13:26You can look at examples of autonomous driving, self-driving cars, Teslas and whatnot.
  205. 13:33We'll make decisions on our behalf. It might change lanes when I wouldn't think to do so.
  206. 13:41So there is some autonomy that we're seeing within AI, certainly. Will there be more? Absolutely.
  207. 13:48Again, you're seeing some of that as I just described with a gentic.
  208. 13:51are these firewalls or protocols built in to prevent like for instance what if
  209. 13:58AI said gee I'm gonna cut the power to all of America's hospitals I mean what
  210. 14:04what prevents we've got a break this is fascinating stuff dr. Dickens we're gonna
  211. 14:11come back and talk more folks but what is your website before this first
  212. 14:14commercial what's your website best way to find me is Drew Dickens drew like a
  213. 14:19picture Dickens like Charles DrewDikens.com.
  214. 14:21Wow.
  215. 14:22Folks, Alex McFarland here with Dr. Drew Dickens, we're talking about AI.
  216. 14:27It is a part of your life, you know.
  217. 14:30Stay tuned, folks.
  218. 14:31We're going to come back with more after this brief break on the American Family Radio Network.
  219. 14:35Don't go away.
  220. 15:00HGTV has changed over the years and not necessarily for the better.
  221. 15:05The seemingly wholesome home and garden television has decided it would be clever and funny to
  222. 15:10to hint at an expletive in the title of one of its newest shows.
  223. 15:14The alternative spelling is so poor that children can still read it and repeat it.
  224. 15:19Obviously I won't say it here, but you can go to 1millionmoms.com to find out more and
  225. 15:24urge HGTV to rename the show, 1millionmoms.com.
  226. 15:35Shiting Light Into the Darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  227. 15:42Welcome back to the program, Alex McFarland here thoroughly enjoying learning from Dr.
  228. 15:48Drew Dickens.
  229. 15:49And honest, I promise folks, we are two human beings.
  230. 15:53The voices you are listening to are actually human beings talking.
  231. 15:58And you'll concur Dr. Dickens, right?
  232. 16:01Let me check.
  233. 16:02Yep.
  234. 16:03Yes, I am.
  235. 16:04Okay.
  236. 16:05But I'd say that in just, but before the break,
  237. 16:09we were talking about what AI can voluntarily decide
  238. 16:14to do and generate.
  239. 16:17And I want to pick that back up.
  240. 16:18And I asked the question, I mean,
  241. 16:21what's to stop AI from turning off the electricity
  242. 16:27to America's hospitals or something malevolent?
  243. 16:30Is AI capable of malevolence?
  244. 16:38I would think so, yes.
  245. 16:41It's not neutral technology.
  246. 16:45And as it continues to evolve,
  247. 16:48that's the word I can use there.
  248. 16:51It's being trained on the entirety of human knowledge.
  249. 16:56So it's read every book on malevolence.
  250. 16:58It's read every book on manipulation.
  251. 17:01So yes, absolutely it's capable of that.
  252. 17:06There was an interesting thought experiment going back 20 or 30 years now, not specifically
  253. 17:10about AI at the time, but Nick Bostrom, who's a Swedish philosopher, came up with what's
  254. 17:16now called the paperclip experiment.
  255. 17:20Your listeners can Google just paperclip experiment, and it's frightening, fascinating, but the
  256. 17:25scenario is that it would give, let's say, an AI model a task, just as I mentioned a moment
  257. 17:32ago, pick out some Christmas present ideas.
  258. 17:35This one is a little more, again, malevolent.
  259. 17:37It was give or it became so.
  260. 17:40It was design a system, a manufacturing system that would maximize the number of paper clips
  261. 17:50that a company would be able to produce.
  262. 17:54And then it just let it run.
  263. 17:56If you just let it run with no barriers constraints to it.
  264. 17:59And it was fascinating how quickly it started coming to it, this AI platform, if you would.
  265. 18:05to the conclusion that one of the biggest barriers to advancement is energy resources. So I've got
  266. 18:13limited supply of metal that I can use, but I've also got limited supply of power. And so it,
  267. 18:18one of the things that you start thinking through is does it start shutting down what it
  268. 18:23perceives as irrelevant manufacturing processes? So could it shut down the power to a hospital,
  269. 18:30let's say, it was your example. And it would begin to make those decisions in order to achieve
  270. 18:37its goal. So two important words there are goal assignments and alignment. Is AI aligned
  271. 18:46with human flourishing? And if so, it wouldn't shut off a hospital. And is its goal clearly defined?
  272. 18:54So you mentioned, I mentioned looking for Christmas lists.
  273. 19:00You mentioned chocolate chip cookie recipes, is we need to be very
  274. 19:04specific. You can tell where my priorities are.
  275. 19:08Exactly. I'm concerned about my wife's flourishing over the holidays, and you're all about dessert.
  276. 19:15So is it, is it, is it, does it have a clearly assigned, assigned task?
  277. 19:22and is it aligned with human flourishing?
  278. 19:26So long answer, but yes, it can get malevolent,
  279. 19:30but we need to keep in mind that as we program it,
  280. 19:34that it's aligned with what is best for humanity
  281. 19:38and keep those goals very targeted.
  282. 19:41Is AI self-aware?
  283. 19:44Mm, great question.
  284. 19:47And you mentioned AI is one of your most frequently asked
  285. 19:51questions, mine is, is it self-aware?
  286. 19:53is it sentient will it become sentient?
  287. 19:58The grandfather of AI claims that it is becoming self-aware.
  288. 20:08I think one of the things that's missing in awareness or
  289. 20:11sentience is an awareness of life experience.
  290. 20:18So as it begins to, and each of the language models now are doing
  291. 20:23this as it begins to keep historic logs of conversations, it can, well, I do air quotes
  292. 20:33a lot in these conversations, but it can draw on what it might perceive as a life experience
  293. 20:40with me. So I've noticed in some of the language models that I use, and I use them all, it might
  294. 20:46begin a conversation with, hey, Drew, how are the grandkids today? So it's developing
  295. 20:53some awareness of our relationship, if you will. But Jeffrey Hinton, who's the grandfather
  296. 21:00of neural networks and early stage AI is alive and flourishing and doing quite well, but he
  297. 21:06believes it will become sentient. I think the better question, though, is not whether it
  298. 21:11will become self-aware, but will we engage with it as though it is? As I think far more profound
  299. 21:18and relevant question, is it sentient or will we act with it as though it is? And I think
  300. 21:24that's a clear yes. We're already seeing that on how people are engaging with it.
  301. 21:30Sure, sure. And you know, we do summer camps for youth, biblical worldview camps, and we have for
  302. 21:3827 years. And I got to tell you one of the hardest things, but we talked to the parents and the
  303. 21:47grandparents up front, and we say at our summer camps, we don't allow the kids to have their
  304. 21:55mobile devices with them because we're trying to go horseback riding and hiking in the mountains
  305. 22:02and then have Bible study. And do you know the first 48 hours, you know, there are kids
  306. 22:11at our camps that, I mean, it is like withdrawal, like an addict getting off of a drug. It's
  307. 22:18a beautiful thing to see though by three, four, five days of Christian camp, you know, the
  308. 22:25cries for the cell phones are gone.
  309. 22:29Because, and it's almost like,
  310. 22:32and I'm as guilty as anybody.
  311. 22:34I mean, I'm always on the computer.
  312. 22:36I'm always writing or emailing or whatever.
  313. 22:41We are addicted to technology, aren't we?
  314. 22:45Yeah, absolutely.
  315. 22:47And as a Christian, one of the things
  316. 22:50that we are supposed to be very careful stewards of,
  317. 22:53Well, two things, time and our mind, aren't we,
  318. 22:57as a Christian, because time is a non-recoverable resource.
  319. 23:01I mean, if you lose money, you can get more money,
  320. 23:04but wasted and lost time can't be recovered.
  321. 23:08And also what goes into our minds.
  322. 23:10To what degree are you concerned about
  323. 23:13even technology addiction among believers?
  324. 23:16Yeah, very much so. I applaud you for having a technology Sabbath during your retreats and
  325. 23:27during your summer camps. It's one of the things that I always advise when I meet speaking
  326. 23:34with a group, seminary or a church or whatever to do that. I was just having a lunch yesterday
  327. 23:40with a friend of mine who did his doctoral work on even how we engage in scripture with a printed
  328. 23:47Bible versus reading it on our phone. And he was able to fascinating research about how we tend to
  329. 23:55integrate it into our daily walk if we're holding it in our hand, not by the phone, by the way,
  330. 24:05but printed pages.
  331. 24:08I'm sure you probably know this,
  332. 24:11but 20 years ago there were studies done
  333. 24:13about assimilation and recall.
  334. 24:15And when we read from a book,
  335. 24:19the printed page, maybe it's the haptics
  336. 24:22of touching the paper and handling.
  337. 24:25But assimilation and recall are stronger
  338. 24:29when we read from a book book rather than a screen.
  339. 24:34And that's what he was able to determine as well.
  340. 24:36But I'll leave you though, not leave you, but I'll give you this quote, which I thought was fascinating.
  341. 24:41It was about a year ago.
  342. 24:43In the Wall Street Journal, there's an article that I quote that I think the headline was,
  343. 24:49in 2025, this was again last year, 2025 AI will become invisible.
  344. 24:56And I think that the clickbait aspect was, is it going to go away?
  345. 25:00but what the intent of the title was it would become ubiquitous, that it's not just a phone
  346. 25:08anymore. And so it's so hard now to different, I get people quite often who tell me, I'm just
  347. 25:17not on AI. I don't do AI. Well, we all do every day. The minute you turn on Netflix and suggested
  348. 25:23movies or suggested friends on Facebook, or just the content we're reading that we don't
  349. 25:30realize his AI generated. So ship is sale. We're all using AI, open AI. In fact, Sam Altman,
  350. 25:39just partnered with Johnny Ivy, who is the product designer for Apple for many, many years. He's
  351. 25:47one that would design the iPhone and the interface of it and the physical aspect of it. He's designing
  352. 25:53now an AI device with no clue what that is. I don't know if it's something you wear. Maybe it's
  353. 25:59It's a neck, I don't know.
  354. 26:01In fact, just this week, I believe Elon Musk said that next year, the phone will become a
  355. 26:11speaker for AI, not just a phone.
  356. 26:16So even saying to put your phone away doesn't, won't necessarily separate us from the effects
  357. 26:23and the impact and the engagement, the relationship that I think will be drawn to with AI.
  358. 26:32So it's, again, one of the other frightening aspects of AI is the relational aspect to it.
  359. 26:38Again, OpenAI just announced two weeks ago that they're going to start lowering the bar
  360. 26:44on erotica, on erotic content. And so now, with porn, you just look at pictures, but now
  361. 26:53with AI, you're able to talk to it and what that does to your soul when you're
  362. 27:04we're designed to be in a relationship. That's what the Trinity represents to us.
  363. 27:09And so we're going to be drawn to, I think, that aspect of AI, which will be even, I think,
  364. 27:15more dangerous than just walking around with a phone so I can check scores or the latest TikTok
  365. 27:22video or whatever. Now I'll actually be able to have a relationship with this entity.
  366. 27:28For those just tuning in, Alex McFarland here, we're talking with Dr. Drew Dickens about the
  367. 27:35overlap of AI and spirituality. And it is ubiquitous. I've told people as well that,
  368. 27:44look, if you've ever been through like a logic tree on a phone, you know, if you want this, press one,
  369. 27:50if you need this department press too. I mean, we have all interacted with AI. So I'm going to
  370. 27:59ask the question that I've pondered for a while. And this is, it might sound weird, but I'm going
  371. 28:08to ask it anyway. I'm ready. Can demons interact with hardware?
  372. 28:18I would think obviously, yes, God, all things are created by Him and for Him. So with His
  373. 28:31allowance, I would say absolutely. We're not to be a people of fear either. So, you know,
  374. 28:40can, and what we all know the scripture about, you know, what the world might mean for evil.
  375. 28:47And so we, I think we need to be discerning is a word I use a lot discerning when we're
  376. 28:54using it because most definitely we can, there's so many amazing opportunities that this represents
  377. 29:03for us to see the kingdom advance for us to grow deeper in our walk with the Lord for
  378. 29:10for him to be able to use this tool.
  379. 29:14AI certainly didn't surprise him.
  380. 29:17He's coming.
  381. 29:18So it's not like he was like,
  382. 29:19well, look at this technology.
  383. 29:21So this is by no means a surprise.
  384. 29:25Can demons use printed material?
  385. 29:28Absolutely.
  386. 29:30And so can the printing press be used for evil?
  387. 29:33Can radio, can television, absolutely?
  388. 29:36Can technology, so yes, it can.
  389. 29:38Yes, of course it can.
  390. 29:40but likewise it can be used for God's glory.
  391. 29:43But again, with his allowance,
  392. 29:47it can be used for good and bad,
  393. 29:50but we need to be discerning.
  394. 29:52And I think that's one of the things
  395. 29:53that's so tempting about AI.
  396. 29:55A line I toss out quite a bit is,
  397. 29:57AI is incapable of not answering.
  398. 30:00So we need to be discerning when we ask these questions.
  399. 30:06What's the best chocolate chip cookie recipe?
  400. 30:09Instead of just taking that recipe and putting it together,
  401. 30:16you should pause and look at the ingredients.
  402. 30:19Does the ingredients include me throwing in,
  403. 30:23mixing gasoline with the, whatever?
  404. 30:26So let's be discerning for a moment.
  405. 30:29And we need to do that even with scripture
  406. 30:32and commentaries that we read,
  407. 30:34programs we listen to on the radio.
  408. 30:36We need to be discerning.
  409. 30:37What am I listening to?
  410. 30:38What are their worldviews and beliefs?
  411. 30:41So, but it's, you know, that's time consuming,
  412. 30:44we'd rather not have to mess with all that.
  413. 30:46So I'm just gonna take it at face value and go ahead.
  414. 30:48I think therein lies the demonic opportunities
  415. 30:52when we aren't discerning.
  416. 30:55But do you feel like it's making us intellectually lazy?
  417. 31:01Yeah, there's a great word that I came across
  418. 31:04in seminary as Acedia, A-C-E-D-I-A.
  419. 31:10Acedia was a word that first gained some popularity
  420. 31:13with the desert fathers in the early first century church
  421. 31:18that these monastic traditions.
  422. 31:20And they found that fact that there's a scripture
  423. 31:24referencing it, the noon day sun is everybody kind of wakes up
  424. 31:29and they have their morning devotion time.
  425. 31:31We know how to have an evening devotion time.
  426. 31:34But they defined the noon day sun as a seed, yeah, is spiritual slothness.
  427. 31:41There's a lot of S is there, but being spiritual sloth and I can talk to this.
  428. 31:47I have written several articles about a seed, yeah, and that and the sloth of it.
  429. 31:53Because I experienced it every day.
  430. 31:56It's just so much easier for me to pop on the AI real quick and say, boy, you know,
  431. 32:02What did Paul mean or give me two or three examples or using it as a concordance?
  432. 32:08Oh, hold on. We've got to take a break. It's not bad. We've got to take a brief break. Dr. Drew Dickens, A.I. and your
  433. 32:15faith. Stay tuned, folks. Alex McFarlane here, glad you're listening. We'll be back after this brief break.
  434. 32:30The God who speaks. And of course, he went beyond even the Old Testament law in the
  435. 32:35sermon on the Mount saying you've heard it said, you shall not commit adultery. I will tell you that
  436. 32:39that if you've lost it in your heart, you have already committed it to the whole tree.
  437. 32:43And then I realized something.
  438. 32:45I can't believe less than Jesus believed, and he had absolute confidence in the Old Testament.
  439. 32:54The God Who Speaks at resources.afa.net
  440. 32:58The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at aFR.net back
  441. 33:10to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
  442. 33:15Welcome back to the program. We're going to resume our conversation with Dr. Drew Dickens.
  443. 33:20I want to remind people, I know the last thing you're probably thinking about right now is
  444. 33:25the summer of 2026. But I've got the privilege, I'll be again at the Cove, the Billy Graham
  445. 33:33Training Center in Western North Carolina. It's just been a great joy to go there for
  446. 33:3820 summers. And next summer, July 17 through 19, I'll be doing a three-day seminar on biblical
  447. 33:46prophecy. And then July 27 through 31, I'll be there for five days with Dr. Gary Habermas,
  448. 33:54just one of the great apologists in the world. And we'll be doing kind of a deep dive on apologetics
  449. 34:01about knowing and defending the Christian faith, kind of rising to the challenge of first Peter
  450. 34:06315 being ready to give an answer. And so the website is the cove.org.
  451. 34:12Spelges like it sounds, T-H-E-C-O-V-E, the cove.org. We always have people from literally
  452. 34:20around the world. When I was there last summer, we had a family came from India, came all the
  453. 34:26way from India to go to the cove. It's in beautiful Western North Carolina in the Appalachian mountains,
  454. 34:32We will get into the Word of God and fellowship together.
  455. 34:36Please pray about joining us at the Cove next summer. Also, I want to remind people that Bert Harper and I just released our third book,
  456. 34:44100 Bible Questions on Prophecy and the End Times.
  457. 34:48And these are the questions from the listeners of our show exploring the Word.
  458. 34:53And so published by Broad Street along with we did a hundred Bible questions.
  459. 34:58We did a hundred Bible questions for families as you
  460. 35:01You plan the gifts that you'll give.
  461. 35:04Each of our books really contains an explanation of a clear explanation of the gospel.
  462. 35:11And we ask the reader a question, have you begun a relationship with Christ?
  463. 35:16So we pray that God will use these books and we hope they'll be a blessing to you.
  464. 35:21As always my travel schedule and the articles I write, they're available at AlexMcFarland.com
  465. 35:28and we appreciate your interest.
  466. 35:30with me is Dr. Drew Dickens and Dr. Dickens, you, I want to commend you, you're such a fascinating
  467. 35:38person with whom to speak and I want to encourage people, look, familiarize yourself with his
  468. 35:44research and his work. He's helping a lot of people understand where we are technologically
  469. 35:50myself included. Dr. Dickens, give your website if you would.
  470. 35:55Dr. Drew Dickens, D-R-E-W, D-I-C-K-E-N-S, Drew Like-It-Picture, Dickens-Like-Charles.com.
  471. 36:02And you can find my sub-stack channel and the website and boy, just, there are no pictures
  472. 36:08of the grandkids, but pretty much everything else you get everyone to know is on Drudekins.com.
  473. 36:13You know, I want to talk about the good side of this technology because I really do think
  474. 36:20There's a lot of good there.
  475. 36:21But one more potentially negative question, you know, you read like in Revelation chapter
  476. 36:2713 about, you know, the beast and the antichrist.
  477. 36:32And there's this image of the beast that has God-like properties.
  478. 36:38And imagine, you know, people worship the beast and the image of the beast.
  479. 36:46Do you see AI playing a role in some of what the Bible prophesies about the end times and
  480. 36:57the tribulation period and this global police state and people, you know, it says there's
  481. 37:04a strong delusion coming.
  482. 37:07Do you foresee AI potentially being a part of all that?
  483. 37:12Yes, most definitely.
  484. 37:14So when I came to Christ, it was the first book my parents got me was How Lindsay, the
  485. 37:21Lake Great Planet Earth.
  486. 37:22Sure.
  487. 37:23And I obviously went to Dallas Seminary, so I've already naturally have a bent towards
  488. 37:28pre-millennial dispensational not to get into the weeds there.
  489. 37:33Me too.
  490. 37:35So they already have some of those leanings.
  491. 37:37in Hal Lindsey's book,
  492. 37:40but he was mapping out those metaphors
  493. 37:43quite liberally as far as,
  494. 37:45well, the locus were helicopters and so on and so forth.
  495. 37:49And so it was hard for me at the time, 50 years ago,
  496. 37:54more than that 50 years ago,
  497. 37:56to envision a world where,
  498. 38:00that one day we might be able to broadcast content
  499. 38:05around the world. I'm just things that were mind-blowing to me in seventh grade. Now we,
  500. 38:09of course, just accept all that. And so, tempted to go back and look at his book again and see,
  501. 38:15boy, AI could so easily create all of the word you use delusions, but so easily generate fake content
  502. 38:26and delude us into thinking that this is this or that is that or this isn't this or that. One of
  503. 38:34of the threats I think to the church right now with AI is just the attack on authority.
  504. 38:39So, yeah, most definitely I see AI easily playing a role in that. I do want to challenge you on
  505. 38:45something you were mentioning the next summer, you at the Cove on prophecy. I'd really challenge
  506. 38:53you. It's fascinating right now, but Peter Teal is someone your listeners may not be familiar
  507. 38:59with, but he's the co-founder of PayPal. He was the first outside investor in Facebook.
  508. 39:05He's the CEO of a company called Palantir right now. Exactly.
  509. 39:09Just as AI, AI, AI defense. But his passion, I've not talked to the man, but listening to
  510. 39:17podcasts that he's been on, he identifies himself as a little O Orthodox Christian
  511. 39:22and is very active in a church and a Bible study in San Francisco.
  512. 39:28But his passion right now is the Antichrist.
  513. 39:34And you don't have to do much besides just Google,
  514. 39:37Peter Thiel and Antichrist,
  515. 39:39but he is passionate about speaking to his many
  516. 39:43that will listen about AI and the Antichrist.
  517. 39:48Now, his definition of anti-Christ may be different than yours in mind.
  518. 39:53His view of end times theology may be different.
  519. 40:00He's still kind of fleshing out some things.
  520. 40:02He said on a recent podcast, It's Above My Pay Grade.
  521. 40:05But I would before you speak there next summer, which is an eternity in the AI timeline.
  522. 40:12But I think you would be fascinating to get kind of caught up on where Peter teal.
  523. 40:18For that matter, Elon has spoken about it.
  524. 40:20So has Zuckerberg, who's a Jewish,
  525. 40:23so is Sam Altman is Jewish,
  526. 40:26all acknowledge the presence of a Supreme being.
  527. 40:31But I think it's interesting watching Silicon Valley
  528. 40:35in these AI frontier models,
  529. 40:37start leaning into what are the theological implications
  530. 40:40of AI and what does it mean to be human?
  531. 40:43So yes, I think that the enemy can use that
  532. 40:46to delude us into this or that,
  533. 40:50I think will be a great threat to us in today,
  534. 40:53as well as in times as well.
  535. 40:56You mentioned the late great planet Earth by Hal Lindsey,
  536. 41:00and I'm gonna invoke another late 20th century
  537. 41:06American evangelical book that came out,
  538. 41:09and I'm sure you probably,
  539. 41:11you haven't thought of this in years.
  540. 41:12There was an author, he was a born again,
  541. 41:15Arab man named Salem Curban, and he wrote a book called 666.
  542. 41:22And do you remember that?
  543. 41:24This is like Eons before the Left Behind series,
  544. 41:28but it was basically pre-millennialism in story form.
  545. 41:34I remember, because I became a Christian when I was 21,
  546. 41:38Drew, I was in college, but I probably,
  547. 41:42Somebody at school, I was maybe in fifth or sixth grade,
  548. 41:46had the book 666, I knew nothing about anything,
  549. 41:51but I read it and it really scared me.
  550. 41:53But there's a picture in that book
  551. 41:54of people bowing down before a computer.
  552. 41:57There's like this IBM computer that looks
  553. 42:00about like a deep freezer, but people are,
  554. 42:03it's a big huge box.
  555. 42:04They're bowing down before it and worshiping this computer.
  556. 42:09And, but you know, people, you know, mocked those kinds of books, how Lindsay even earnest,
  557. 42:18angely, I'm really doing a deep dive in evangelical truth. But he wrote one of these books too.
  558. 42:25But you know, in a way though, they weren't, while stylistically, you know, this was not
  559. 42:33Shakespeare here. But you know, they weren't far off the mark in predicting how technology
  560. 42:41would just become ubiquitous and would envelop all of our lives.
  561. 42:45Yeah, I don't think it will be as, I think it'll be more nuanced than us bowing in front
  562. 42:50of a computer. One of the things that China just in fact announced this swarm of robots
  563. 42:58that they're releasing for a company.
  564. 43:02Elon, I think that will be the biggest growth for Tesla,
  565. 43:05is not cars are going to Mars, but is robot automation.
  566. 43:11And then when you embody,
  567. 43:15and again, we can get into theological implications
  568. 43:17of just the incarnation,
  569. 43:18but when you start embodying AI into a robot,
  570. 43:22I think it will be more subtle than that.
  571. 43:24I think it's the ability for AI to generate content,
  572. 43:27to generate audio, video.
  573. 43:29And I didn't mean to laugh, but when you said,
  574. 43:33here we are both drew in Alex's humans.
  575. 43:36I think we're at a point where we kind of need to verify that.
  576. 43:42In fact, OpenAI is launching an orb
  577. 43:45where it will verify our humanity.
  578. 43:48So I think that's very real.
  579. 43:50And I think it'll be, again, more nuanced
  580. 43:52than bowing to an IBM.
  581. 43:55It certainly won't be an IBM.
  582. 43:56But I think to a data center, whatever,
  583. 44:01but it'll be more nuanced and subtle than that.
  584. 44:03But I definitely think that that will be a threat
  585. 44:06that we need to take very real.
  586. 44:09Ethically, how do you feel about Christians investing
  587. 44:13in these companies?
  588. 44:18Is it ethical for Christians to buy stock
  589. 44:23stock and the major technological players in your opinion.
  590. 44:29Well, I have never, I've lost count of podcasts I've been on. I've never been asked that question.
  591. 44:35So thank you for that.
  592. 44:37Well, all of life is stewardship, you know?
  593. 44:40Yes, absolutely. And I think we need to be good stewards of, definitely we need to be
  594. 44:44good stewards of it. We need to be discerning for anything that we do. But again, as we start
  595. 44:52the conversation in the very beginning about it's easy to go dystopian with all the threats.
  596. 44:59But when you look at open AI specifically right now,
  597. 45:07the advances that it's seeing in pharmaceutical, in healthcare, massive advancements that would
  598. 45:18have taken decades can now be done in a matter of seconds as far as research goes. So,
  599. 45:25you know, if you reframe the question, would I want to invest in a company that might usher in
  600. 45:32the rise of demonic forces? Of course not. But what I want to invest in a company that might cure
  601. 45:39cancer next week, absolutely. So again, I think we need to be discerning on how they're,
  602. 45:48you know, using different things. Obviously, the return that these companies have seen,
  603. 45:54whether or not we're in a bubble right now. But I'm very excited about where this is going.
  604. 46:01I'm excited about the advances in pharmaceutical and science innovations and research is just
  605. 46:08mind-blowing the things that we're already seeing the benefits of. And as far as the kingdom,
  606. 46:15It's ability to go into all the world.
  607. 46:20A pastor at a small church in rural Oklahoma
  608. 46:25can within seconds have their sermon translated
  609. 46:30into every known language in the world
  610. 46:32and sent out via various networks.
  611. 46:38It can create study notes and a 12 week Bible study series.
  612. 46:43study series. My wife and I last year on vacation, we actually had it create a four-day Bible study
  613. 46:54program from scratch for her with questions and commentaries and all that. So it's ability to customize
  614. 47:05are time in the Word is amazing.
  615. 47:08The multiplication of it, the translation capabilities.
  616. 47:14And just the fun of chasing a rabbit,
  617. 47:16just theological rabbits.
  618. 47:17I mean, how fun is it just to crack open the Bible
  619. 47:20and just say, man, I've never noticed that verse before.
  620. 47:22Where did that come from?
  621. 47:23Is it, you know, it's ability to take us there.
  622. 47:26It's so exciting.
  623. 47:27So I would say it's ethically neutral when it comes to investing
  624. 47:32investing, but we need to be discerning on the use of it.
  625. 47:38Time fleets way. And I've got five dozen questions that I want to ask you. Now.
  626. 47:46And here's one. Will you come back? May we have a 2.0 on this conversation?
  627. 47:53Absolutely. I'd be honored anytime. Anytime. Anytime.
  628. 47:56We got about a minute. Give us a homework assignment. A book to read.
  629. 48:01Yeah, what did it study?
  630. 48:02Yeah, absolutely.
  631. 48:04We're not to be people of fear.
  632. 48:05So I would, if you haven't already, I would, and they're all free models or paid models,
  633. 48:11but they're all free.
  634. 48:12So I would go to any of the larger language models.
  635. 48:17If you have a Gmail account, then you already have an account with Jim and I, which is Google's
  636. 48:22language models.
  637. 48:23So start there if you want to open AI is another one and just go into their context window
  638. 48:28and start asking questions.
  639. 48:31Maybe something that you wished had been answered on Sunday morning and just for my
  640. 48:35engagement.
  641. 48:36We're out of time.
  642. 48:37Bless you.
  643. 48:39Thanks for listening, folks.
  644. 48:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
  645. 48:44Family Association or American Family Radio.

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