The Hamilton Corner

February 5, 2025 · 49:15

Who is Jesus? Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Pastor Tony Cooke, of Tony Cooke Ministries to discuss the role of the Church.

Bible & Theology

Show notes

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  1. 0:01Darkness is not an affirmative force.
  2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
  3. 0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
  5. 0:16Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
  6. 0:19And the philosophies of this world.
  7. 0:21God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
  8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
  9. 0:27Let's not miss our moment.
  10. 0:29and now the Hamilton Corner.
  11. 0:33Well, good evening America and welcome to the Hamilton Corner
  12. 0:36on the American Family Radio Network, Alex McFarland here.
  13. 0:39I've got the great honor of sitting in for attorney, pastor,
  14. 0:43journalist, broadcaster Abe Hamilton, the third
  15. 0:46who is traveling today.
  16. 0:48And we've got a great show.
  17. 0:49We're going to talk about Jesus and who is Jesus
  18. 0:53and really the role of the church in the 21st century.
  19. 0:57But as we get into the program, and before I introduce a very valued colleague and special guest,
  20. 1:04I want to refer you to last night's program and encourage you, if you didn't hear it live,
  21. 1:10go back and listen if you would, AFR.NET, the show from yesterday which would have been
  22. 1:16I suppose February 4th. My guest was Jay Warner Wallace, Jim Wallace,
  23. 1:21and he is a former Los Angeles cold case homicide detective.
  24. 1:27He applied his crime-solving skills to a critical look at the Bible, and he became a
  25. 1:33born-again believer.
  26. 1:34And he's written a couple of really great apologetics books.
  27. 1:37And I had him on yesterday, and we took calls.
  28. 1:40Some of the questions were just fantastic about, you know, can we trust the Bible?
  29. 1:45And yes, we can.
  30. 1:47And how do we defend the faith?
  31. 1:49And I had Jim Wallace on yesterday because he and I were leading a seminar in August at
  32. 1:54the Billy Graham Center in Western North Carolina. And I just, I implore, most people
  33. 2:00listening probably are Christians and if so you're in church I hope you are. Maybe
  34. 2:05you're a pastor, a Sunday school leader, maybe you help with the youth, especially if
  35. 2:10you work with college and young adult, please plan on coming to our seminar at
  36. 2:18the Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center in Western North Carolina and you can
  37. 2:23And learn more about that at vcove.org, thecove.org, just Google my name in the space bar, because
  38. 2:31I think it's so important. Young people are not always, but very often skeptical. They've
  39. 2:36read something on a blog site. Christianity is false. The Bible has errors. We've got to
  40. 2:44answer these things. And the good news is we can. And J. Warner Wallace last night, that's
  41. 2:50a good primer on apologetics, if you will. So I refer you to that show. Now today, though,
  42. 2:57very honored to be on and later on in the program, I would like to take calls if you've got a
  43. 3:02Bible question or a phone call. But tonight, we're going to visit with just a longtime friend
  44. 3:07and someone I've come to appreciate very much, his name is Dr. Tony Cook of Tony Cook Ministries,
  45. 3:14His website is Tonycook.org and that's C-O-K-E, Tonycook.org.
  46. 3:21In addition to being a great minister of the gospel, he's a scholar and a writer and I've
  47. 3:27a number of times mentioned his book on miracles and the supernatural in church history, which
  48. 3:33is a really good book and I think it's a book for our times.
  49. 3:38But more recently he wrote a book called Magnificent Jesus.
  50. 3:41And I was just moved by that book and we'll talk about this in a lot of things but first of all Tony Cook
  51. 3:48Welcome to the American family radio network. Hey Tony are you there brother? I'm not sure I'm hearing you I am
  52. 3:58Thank you. Sorry about that. I had muted just for a moment. Thank you. Oh, that's a callix for the privilege of being with you
  53. 4:05Well, yeah, it's good to have you on and you know
  54. 4:08It seems like every day the Middle East is in the news. I've got some questions about that for you
  55. 4:14but before we get into kind of what's going on in the world and the biblical worldview in the 21st century,
  56. 4:21tell us about yourself and Tony Cook Ministries.
  57. 4:24Alex, thank you. And I've sure enjoyed my times being with you. We've got to interact especially up at
  58. 4:32Caris Bible College and you have some very official responsibilities. There I just do a little guest teaching
  59. 4:40once in a while on church history, but my wife and I are just coming up on our 46th
  60. 4:47year of marriage. We're from North Central Indiana. We've been preaching now for just
  61. 4:55almost 45 years and had the privilege of working local church ministry for 22 years Bible college
  62. 5:05for 18 and a half of that overlapping.
  63. 5:09And then the last 23 years my wife and I have traveled full time and we've had the privilege
  64. 5:17of preaching in 32 different countries and 48 different states here in the US.
  65. 5:23So we love what we do.
  66. 5:25I've been able to privilege to write 16 books and they're in over a dozen languages.
  67. 5:32And so we're just thankful to see what's going on in various parts of the body of Christ
  68. 5:37around the world.
  69. 5:38Well, it is exciting because it's real.
  70. 5:43I mean, the gospel and the change that Jesus makes when we give our life to Christ and we
  71. 5:49are born again, that's very special.
  72. 5:53But I know you wrote a book called In Search of Paul and you've led tours and you've looked
  73. 6:01at the history you've researched and written on the history. Don't you think it's just invigorating
  74. 6:07and exciting when you look at the record of history and the pages of scripture and you realize,
  75. 6:15okay, wow, this is real, the Bible, Christ, this is reality.
  76. 6:22It really is, and there's so many historical verifications of, for example,
  77. 6:30I was just in, she was the last October that I had a group in Greece that we were leading
  78. 6:39on a tour and we went to ancient Corinth and we, I always point this out when we have people
  79. 6:47with us, there is a particular stone there laid by it says in the, I think it's in the Greek
  80. 6:56language that it was, that stone was laid there by Erastus and it refers to him. I'm trying to remember
  81. 7:07what the exact title is, but I believe it's something, you know, some governmental official.
  82. 7:14And that same individual is referenced by the Apostle Paul. And you go just up a little bit north,
  83. 7:23maybe 50 miles north into ancient Delphi. And there's a stone there with a reference to
  84. 7:30Galileo being the Roman Pro Council. And we find out that he was there. And from that historical
  85. 7:40inscription in stone that he was there, I think it was from 51 to 52 AD. And so that helps us to
  86. 7:49date when Paul was preaching in Corinth and Paul stood before his judgment seat and that's
  87. 7:58recorded in Acts chapter 18. So that's one of the reasons we love going to these places
  88. 8:04to Ephesus over in Turkey and different places because the descriptions that are given, for
  89. 8:11For example, by Luke in the book of Acts, the theater where they had the big riot against
  90. 8:20Paul, the thousands of Ephesians who were screaming out, great is artemis of the Ephesians.
  91. 8:29And Paul, the Bible says he wanted to go into that theater, it was not a small theater
  92. 8:33it's seated and to this day it's quite intact. It's 24 to 25,000 people and we wanted to go
  93. 8:42in and give defense there and his friends didn't let him go in and it even says that the high
  94. 8:51ranking, I think the King James says perhaps the ACR, the high ranking government officials
  95. 9:00urge Paul not to go in because the crowd was so, it's just a mob mentality.
  96. 9:09And they knew that Paul would likely be killed if he went into that mob of people.
  97. 9:16And so to see these places that are referred to in the Bible, and Luke gives vivid descriptions
  98. 9:26of many of these different places.
  99. 9:28And just to go see them today,
  100. 9:32and they made everything out of rock.
  101. 9:35It tends to last and stand the test of time.
  102. 9:38So whether it's the Erastus Stone and Corinth,
  103. 9:42that reminds us of the individual
  104. 9:48that was a government official there,
  105. 9:50that was also a friend of Paul,
  106. 9:53and traveled some with Paul as well,
  107. 9:56or the Galileo Stone that reflects upon Paul's time
  108. 10:01in Corinth or the theater and ethicists.
  109. 10:04There's so many historic evidences
  110. 10:06that are literally recorded in stone
  111. 10:10that validate the story of the New Testament.
  112. 10:15That is so powerful.
  113. 10:17That is so powerful.
  114. 10:19And this same New Testament
  115. 10:21that is historically verified, absolutely trustworthy, detail after detail, accurate, it also says
  116. 10:31you may be born again by putting faith in Christ.
  117. 10:35If we trust, I'll ask it this way, if we can trust what the Bible says about Earth, can
  118. 10:43we trust what it promises about Heaven?
  119. 10:46I think there's no other book that communicates at any level near what the Bible does.
  120. 10:56Jesus was not a mere philosopher.
  121. 11:00He was not simply a spiritual guru or some kind of speculative, what we might use the
  122. 11:11term today, a life coach, a spiritual life coach.
  123. 11:14I mean, he made statements that no one else made.
  124. 11:19He talked about being the Son of God.
  125. 11:24He talked about being the Savior of the world.
  126. 11:27He said that life could only be found in Him.
  127. 11:33He told those challenging Him.
  128. 11:36He said, you search the Scriptures because you think that in then you have eternal life.
  129. 11:43he said the scriptures speak of me. And he said that he was the fulfillment because of
  130. 11:54after his resurrection he told his disciples that he pointed to the law of Moses, the Psalms
  131. 12:05and the prophets and said all of those things were in reference to him.
  132. 12:12Now I'll give you an eye, you or I, go ahead.
  133. 12:17Well yeah, I mean you know when he said in John 539, search the Scriptures and that would
  134. 12:23have meant you know what we call the Old Testament.
  135. 12:26Jesus had searched the Scriptures, they testified of me.
  136. 12:31Now if you or I made that claim that would be ludicrous.
  137. 12:35You know that Bible? Exactly. I am the theme of the Bible. How could Christ say that? It's
  138. 12:42because it was true. I mean, that was an amazing juggernaut of a claim. The Scriptures testify
  139. 12:51of me. Isn't that amazing? It absolutely is. Yeah, if you were, I got up in someone's pulpit
  140. 12:58and said that, you know, that I am the fulfillment of all of the promises, prophecies and predictions.
  141. 13:06of the entire Old Testament, you know, they would be signaling, you know, to cut off the
  142. 13:12microphone, to have ushers, you know, remove us from the platform and that type of thing,
  143. 13:19because clearly you and I can't make that kind of statement. But Jesus did. And so it kind
  144. 13:25of invalidates the approach that, you know, Jesus was just a good teacher or just a wise
  145. 13:33Sage because good teachers and wise people do not make those kinds of statements
  146. 13:41Exactly exactly for those just tuning in
  147. 13:44We're talking with Tony Cook a scholar a minister and evangelist a historian his
  148. 13:51Is that your newest book magnificent Jesus?
  149. 13:55Yes, that is our newest book. It's called magnificent Jesus
  150. 13:59Unmatched unrivaled unparalleled
  151. 14:02He's not a very narrow-led.
  152. 14:04Is we want to focus on his supremacy, his uniqueness?
  153. 14:08There's no one like him.
  154. 14:10You know, with Easter coming folks, there's so much in that book, and I'm privileged to
  155. 14:15have a copy of it, that, you know, it will help you magnify and proclaim Jesus with Easter coming.
  156. 14:23Now, what I want to do, when we come back, we're going to talk with Tony Cook, and I'm going to lay out,
  157. 14:27out. I've got about two dozen scriptures of things Jesus said and I'm going to ask Dr.
  158. 14:33Tony Cook, what do we conclude about this? Was Jesus really claiming to be the one and only
  159. 14:41Savior, God incarnate? We'll talk about this and more. This is the American Family Radio
  160. 14:46Network, Alex MacFarlane, Tony Cook, our guest. Later on, your calls and Bible questions.
  161. 14:51So not only do we invite you to stay tuned, we encourage it. We've got a brief break. Don't
  162. 14:57a good way.
  163. 15:01A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
  164. 15:05We live in a world full of people who are living their lives.
  165. 15:07They're doing what they do.
  166. 15:08They work.
  167. 15:09They buy homes.
  168. 15:10They have children.
  169. 15:11They live their lives.
  170. 15:12But the word of God clearly tells us to seek first the kingdom of heaven and it's righteous
  171. 15:17isn't all these things shall be added.
  172. 15:20Yet for many people again their goals are, well I'm just kind of seeking my own dream
  173. 15:24and one happiness.
  174. 15:26I want life.
  175. 15:27I want to be fulfilled.
  176. 15:28I want to do what I want to do.
  177. 15:30The purpose of life is not to fulfill our dreams,
  178. 15:33it's to fulfill God's dreams,
  179. 15:34and how important it is.
  180. 15:36Lord, speak to every listener.
  181. 15:39Help them to recognize, Lord,
  182. 15:40that you have a work and a will and a design
  183. 15:42for every one of our lives.
  184. 15:44You have a calling upon each of our lives.
  185. 15:46Our job is to be listening to your word and your spirit
  186. 15:50in doing what you call us to do.
  187. 15:52Help us to answer that call.
  188. 15:54We thank you in praise.
  189. 15:55In Jesus' name, we do pray.
  190. 15:58Amen.
  191. 16:05Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio
  192. 16:13Welcome back to the program Alex McFarland here along with Tony Cook and later on we will take your calls and Bible questions and
  193. 16:21You know, it's it's been said that it's life's most important
  194. 16:26Consideration Jesus. What will you do with Jesus? There's an old gospel song
  195. 16:31It says, you know, what will you do with Jesus neutral? You cannot be
  196. 16:35one day your soul will be asking, what will he do with me?
  197. 16:41And to help us weigh in and just drill down
  198. 16:44on who is Jesus and how may I know Jesus?
  199. 16:48It's scholar, author, Tony Cook, a friend and a colleague.
  200. 16:53And before the break, Dr. Cook,
  201. 16:56you were talking about how Jesus made the claim.
  202. 17:00It's an audacious claim, except in the case of Christ,
  203. 17:03a true claim that he is the theme of the Bible. I mean, he was setting forth his deity and
  204. 17:11Messiah ship, wasn't he?
  205. 17:14Alkur, and he made statements to the religious leaders such as before Abraham was I am. And
  206. 17:23saying that, he was saying, you know, I'm not just a human, I certainly was human, but
  207. 17:29not just a human that came into existence 30 some years ago, I'm the pre-existent son of God.
  208. 17:39I transcend all of eternity. I pre-existed with the Father and with the Holy Spirit.
  209. 17:47They picked up stones to stone him because he was equating himself with the God who spoke out of
  210. 17:55the burning bush when Moses said, what is your name? And he says, I am that I am. And Jesus
  211. 18:03to come along then when he was born in the flesh and say before Abraham was, I am. And
  212. 18:10the Bible says in John 8, they picked up stones to stone him. Well, Alex, if I said something
  213. 18:16and people misunderstood it and thought I was claiming to be God and I thought they're about
  214. 18:23to kill me, I would be so quick to clarify, oh I didn't mean that. Jesus didn't try to
  215. 18:29clarify it at all. He did not retract, he did not backtrack because he was boldly declaring
  216. 18:37who he was and that's what separates him. You know the great philosophers and speculative
  217. 18:44stages of history would make you know broad brush statements but none of them ever said
  218. 18:52I am the light of the world.
  219. 18:55I am the bread of life.
  220. 18:57And I have a statement here from a gentleman named Henry Bosch.
  221. 19:02And he said Socrates taught for 40 years, Plato for 50, Aristotle for 40,
  222. 19:11and Jesus for only three, yet the influence of Christ's three-year ministry
  223. 19:20infinitely transcends the impact left by the combined 130 years of teaching from these men
  224. 19:30who are among the greatest philosophers of all antiquity. And I would just encourage anybody
  225. 19:36who's listening. If they question who really is Jesus and if he really all that different, is he
  226. 19:43just a religious teacher, philosopher, life coach, in modern terms, I encourage them to
  227. 19:51just go read the Gospel of John and look at all the claims of Jesus. Look at the claims
  228. 19:58he made and ask yourself, could anybody make those statements and not be? You're very familiar
  229. 20:09Alex with the trilema that Jesus either Lord, liar or lunatic. And I know and you know that he is Lord.
  230. 20:21You know, you remember in, it was, I believe February of 22, Russia invaded Ukraine, right?
  231. 20:30That was 36 months ago. Okay, that's not long, 36 months. That's how long Jesus' ministry was.
  232. 20:39You know, at age 30, Jesus began his public ministry.
  233. 20:44In really just under three years later, he was crucified.
  234. 20:49And you're right, Tony, one of the things, I tell people,
  235. 20:54I teach to support my preaching habit.
  236. 20:56And I've taught at the college level now for over 20 years,
  237. 21:01and I teach a class on logic and critical thinking skills.
  238. 21:06skills and I love the life of Aristotle and I teach on Aristotle and I teach what's called
  239. 21:13first principles. Anyway, here's my point. The first thing I have to do, it doesn't matter
  240. 21:17where I am, Liberty University, Cares Bible College, Biola, doesn't matter. First of
  241. 21:24all, I have to spend 30 to 60 minutes just telling people who Aristotle was. Nobody knows
  242. 21:31his name, nobody knows who Aristotle was. Until again, how many decades did he teach?
  243. 21:38I believe that quote was 40. 40 years. And he's forgotten, except when geeks like me bring him up.
  244. 21:48And yet Jesus, Jesus ministered for three years. And right now, a third of the world's population
  245. 21:57follow him devoutly, love him supremely.
  246. 22:0398% of the world's population knows who he is.
  247. 22:07The most influential life ever.
  248. 22:10But folks, if you're just tuning in, we're talking with Tony Cook.
  249. 22:14He's the author of a great book.
  250. 22:17I highly recommend it. It's called Magnificent Jesus.
  251. 22:21And I've got some questions to thought you, Dr. Cook.
  252. 22:24But before we do, where may people find your books?
  253. 22:27And I'm saying this, I'm not just, this is not exaggeration.
  254. 22:31Tony Cook's books are ones that you will keep in your library
  255. 22:37and read and use.
  256. 22:39I've gleaned so much that I've used in my teaching
  257. 22:44and preaching from his books.
  258. 22:46They are first class.
  259. 22:48Where can people get your work, Dr. Cook?
  260. 22:55Hey, brother, you might have been muted.
  261. 22:57I'm sorry. Are you there? Tony Cook? Unmute. Hello, sir. Well, we might have lost him here.
  262. 23:09Tony, if you're there, chime right in, my friend. And what I was going to ask him,
  263. 23:14we're talking about Jesus' claim to his identity and authority. Tony, are you back?
  264. 23:23Not thought I heard him. Well, here's the thing. He referenced C.S. Lewis' trilima.
  265. 23:29Now we're drilling the end of the question, did Jesus really claim to be God?
  266. 23:33And if so, what did He do to validate or authenticate that claim or prove it?
  267. 23:39Prove it. Okay. C.S. Lewis said Jesus might have been a liar.
  268. 23:46Maybe He said that He was God, but He wasn't. Maybe He was a lunatic.
  269. 23:51Maybe He thought He was God, but He was deluded. Or maybe He was the Lord.
  270. 23:56Okay, we have no reason to believe that he was lying.
  271. 23:58In fact, everybody from skeptics like H.G. Wells and Bertrand Russell and even people like
  272. 24:08Thomas Jefferson who was not a skeptic for his whole life.
  273. 24:13But they said Jesus was the most sublime moral teacher that ever lived.
  274. 24:17So he wasn't a liar and he wasn't a lunatic.
  275. 24:20He was very wise.
  276. 24:22the Pharisees and some of the people of his day said, never a man spake like this. So
  277. 24:27C.S. Lewis's trilema, three options. If he wasn't a liar and he wasn't a lunatic, well
  278. 24:34he must have been the Lord. Well in our own times there's been another option that
  279. 24:40people, skeptics, have set forth, that he was a legend, that he never existed. Now
  280. 24:45I've just gotten through teaching seven hours today on how that fails. But Dr.
  281. 24:50cook tony are you there
  282. 24:53and back with you sorry for the disconnect
  283. 24:56okay sorry about that no problem i was asking where can we find your books
  284. 25:01yes thank you i was well i think this cooks the o k e
  285. 25:05and the only end of cook and people can go to our website
  286. 25:09which is simply tony
  287. 25:12dot org or g or they can go to amazon they can go to barns and noble they can go
  288. 25:18to
  289. 25:19our publisher, Harrison House.
  290. 25:23So any of those options.
  291. 25:27Amen.
  292. 25:27Well, establishing that Jesus did claim to be the Messiah and proved it by rising from the dead.
  293. 25:36I want to throw a few verses at you and you tell me what the messianic implication of these verses are.
  294. 25:44In Mark 2, 10, Jesus said he had power on earth to forgive sin.
  295. 25:51He said he had the authority to forgive sin.
  296. 25:56That's a pretty big claim, isn't it?
  297. 26:00Extremely large.
  298. 26:01And that was one of the things that got Jesus in trouble with the religious leaders of his
  299. 26:07day because when he made those types of statements, when he told people, your sins are forgiven
  300. 26:14you, the religious people, they blew a gasket and they said, only God can feel it.
  301. 26:22forgive sins. And I think it was kind of the whole point of, you know, Jesus going ahead
  302. 26:28and doing something that they knew only God could do. And so again, they were forced to
  303. 26:34make a choice. They were forced to say, again, this man is false, this man is, you know,
  304. 26:42presumptuously taking authority that he doesn't have, or maybe there's something about him
  305. 26:49that is unique. Maybe there's something about him like no other human we've ever come in contact
  306. 26:57with. So Jesus, he exercised divine prerogatives when he was involved in the earth. And one of
  307. 27:06those was forgiving sin. Yeah, I mean, none of us could say that. I mean, we could say, I'm praying
  308. 27:15for you. I'm helping. I'll help you. But there is not a one of us that could legitimately say,
  309. 27:22I absolve you of sin and guilt. But Jesus could say that. Here's something huge. Mark 228,
  310. 27:30Jesus said, this is big, folks, that he was the Lord of the Sabbath. One of the titles,
  311. 27:39Son of Man, that's a reference from Daniel.
  312. 27:42It's a reference to this Messiah.
  313. 27:46So Tony, here's the thing, for those that wonder,
  314. 27:49did Jesus really claim to be God and the Messiah?
  315. 27:54Okay, pious Jews for centuries had observed the Sabbath.
  316. 27:59In fact, their faithful observance of a Sabbath
  317. 28:03was indicative of their relationship with Almighty God.
  318. 28:06How big of an issue is it that Jesus said, okay,
  319. 28:12observant pious Jews, I am the Lord of the Sabbath?
  320. 28:19That's big.
  321. 28:20Yeah, Alex, again, that is huge
  322. 28:23because that was such an integral part
  323. 28:25and for many still is today of their faith.
  324. 28:30And it was one of the 10 commandments.
  325. 28:34And then of course there were rabbinic writings, massive amounts of rabbinic writings that added
  326. 28:44all kinds of nuance and detail and micro stipulations and so on.
  327. 28:51So there was God's original intention of the Sabbath.
  328. 28:56And then there were all the attachments that came about through religious tradition.
  329. 29:03And essentially when Jesus was saying the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath, was
  330. 29:10he was claiming to be the one, among other things, he was claiming to be the authoritative
  331. 29:17one who was probably the right to properly interpret the Sabbath.
  332. 29:25They were trying to add their own interpretation on what it meant to keep the Sabbath.
  333. 29:32And Jesus was basically saying, I am the one who is the Lord of the Sabbath.
  334. 29:38And you know, for example, if you're taking your book, for example, and I decide to interpret
  335. 29:47what I think Alex McFarland meant.
  336. 29:50And so you hear me saying, well, Alex said this in his book, and this is what Alex meant.
  337. 29:56And you might say, well, Tony, no, that's not what I meant.
  338. 30:00You know, I'm the author of this book.
  339. 30:03I'm the one that has the right to interpret what I said, not someone else.
  340. 30:08That's essentially what's happening here is that Jesus was telling people that he was
  341. 30:14the Lord of the Sabbath because he had created the Sabbath.
  342. 30:18He's the one that generated it.
  343. 30:21And therefore he was the one who had the authority and the right to properly interpret it.
  344. 30:27You know, Tony, this is a horribly elementary illustration, but I'm going to say this for
  345. 30:32the music people out there.
  346. 30:35The Beatles are a lot of Beatles fans, and there's a famous song, A Hard Day's Night.
  347. 30:39It opens with this chord, this bang, and there are a lot of notes in this chord, and people
  348. 30:46have, I mean, there's actually one guy wrote his master's thesis on which notes were in
  349. 30:51The Hard Day's Night chord.
  350. 30:52Do you know the chord of which I speak to?
  351. 30:56I don't, but I want to learn from this.
  352. 31:00Well, anyway, so George Harrison, who was lead guitarist of the Beatles, they were with a
  353. 31:04bunch of musicians one night, Jeff Lynn, Tom Petty, Elvis Costello, Bob Dylan, and it was
  354. 31:12all this talk about the hard days night, this opening chord bang.
  355. 31:18So anyway, they were speculating, well George Harrison gently picked up a guitar and he
  356. 31:23He said, here are these notes.
  357. 31:25Now go over there and simultaneously hit these weird notes on the piano.
  358. 31:30And the lead guitarist for Tom Petty, whose name was Mike Campbell, he said, no, no,
  359. 31:40that's not how it goes.
  360. 31:41And George Harrison gently said, I wrote the chord.
  361. 31:46Trust me, I was there.
  362. 31:48I wrote the chord.
  363. 31:49I know the notes that make up this very enigmatic chord.
  364. 31:53That's the point you're right is like Jesus is saying, look,
  365. 31:56you all who argue over the minutia of the law,
  366. 32:02I am the law.
  367. 32:03Now when we come back, we're gonna take some calls.
  368. 32:04Here's the number folks, get this number.
  369. 32:06Triple eight, 5898840.
  370. 32:09Triple eight, 5898840.
  371. 32:13If you've got a Bible question,
  372. 32:15or maybe you wanna know how to reach a friend
  373. 32:18who's struggling with doubt or unbelief, Tony Cook and I,
  374. 32:22We want to help you.
  375. 32:23We're just excited about Jesus.
  376. 32:25He is the author of the brand new book,
  377. 32:27Magnificent Jesus.
  378. 32:28It's a fantastic book.
  379. 32:31More about who Jesus is and how we can help others find him
  380. 32:35as well.
  381. 32:35If you have a Bible question, we look forward
  382. 32:37to hearing from you after this brief break.
  383. 32:40On the American Family Radio Network, stay tuned.
  384. 33:00streaming.afa.net has now become AFA Stream.
  385. 33:04And you can find it at stream.afa.net.
  386. 33:08easy, we remove the letters ING. Our experts have determined that eliminating those three
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  390. 33:26Improvements to the Economy are purely theoretical.
  391. 33:29The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrors are available at eFR.net.
  392. 33:41back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  393. 33:47Welcome back everybody.
  394. 33:49Alex McFarland here, by the way, before we resume our conversation with Dr. Toni Cook and
  395. 33:54take your telephone calls.
  396. 33:56My own website is AlexMcFarland.com.
  397. 33:59My travel schedule is there.
  398. 34:01I'm teaching at Kerris this week, but at the end of the month I'll be in Wichita, Kansas.
  399. 34:07We've got an evangelistic crusade there in Wichita and a men's event that we're doing
  400. 34:14as part of that and a lot going on seven youth camps this summer.
  401. 34:20We estimate there'll be about 1,200 teenagers in seven camps.
  402. 34:23So, keep us in prayer.
  403. 34:26Also, pray for Tony Cook.
  404. 34:29Tony, give that website again is at tonicookwithne.org.
  405. 34:34Yes, Tony Cook.org and E on the end of Cook.
  406. 34:42Well, there's so much to be excited about.
  407. 34:44And let me tell you folks, God is at work in the world and he wants to be at work in your
  408. 34:49life and use you.
  409. 34:51And the number, triple eight, five, eight, nine, eighty eight, forty, we're going to pick
  410. 34:55up the phone and go to Texas, Lamont in Texas.
  411. 35:01Thank you for holding and welcome to our conversation with Tony Cook.
  412. 35:07I just had a question.
  413. 35:09Are there apostles and prophets today in the world?
  414. 35:14And if so, what are the qualifications to be?
  415. 35:19Great question.
  416. 35:20Toni, what do you say on this?
  417. 35:23Well, I don't think there are apostles
  418. 35:26in the sense of the original 12.
  419. 35:30The original 12 were eyewitnesses,
  420. 35:34and this is something that's spelled out in the book of Acts.
  421. 35:37the original 12 were eyewitnesses of the resurrection.
  422. 35:42But the word apostle simply means sent one.
  423. 35:47And most often what we would call apostle
  424. 35:51in the modern sense of the term
  425. 35:54would be found in the missionaries function.
  426. 35:59It's someone who's sent primarily to preach the gospel
  427. 36:02where the gospel has not been preached.
  428. 36:05And that doesn't mean that everyone who takes a trip is an apostle, but there are people who
  429. 36:10are called to go and preach where Christ has never been preached.
  430. 36:16They have a divine gift to establish churches, to raise up leaders and things of that nature.
  431. 36:26So I believe, while not in the original sense of being an eyewitness of the resurrection,
  432. 36:34but in the sense of being a messenger, and Paul talked about the signs of an apostle, they
  433. 36:44are anointed and gifted to do things kind of beyond the ordinary.
  434. 36:50I think the apostolic office does exist today, even though it's in a different form.
  435. 36:59The prophetic office, I believe, does exist.
  436. 37:02But we also have to be aware that, you know,
  437. 37:05anytime there's a genuine,
  438. 37:08there are also opportunities for counterfeit
  439. 37:13and just as Paul warned against false apostles in his day
  440. 37:19and John warned against false prophets as well.
  441. 37:24Not everybody who claims to be an apostle is one,
  442. 37:28not everyone who claims to be a prophet is one.
  443. 37:33So I have two friends, well, one gentleman
  444. 37:36who's long passed away.
  445. 37:39Kenneth Hagen wrote a book called,
  446. 37:43let's say he gave gifts unto men,
  447. 37:46dealing with the apostolic and prophetic ministry today,
  448. 37:50and a dear friend who's very active in ministry
  449. 37:53today named Rick Renner, R-E-N-N-E-R, just came out with a fabulous work on Apostles Ed.
  450. 38:05See, I'm holding it here.
  451. 38:07It's about as big as what the New York phone book would have used to have been.
  452. 38:12Apostles and prophets, their roles in the past, the present, and the last days.
  453. 38:20That's by Rick Renner, a fabulous book.
  454. 38:22And by the way, forgive me for jumping in here,
  455. 38:26but like in 1 Corinthians 9, 1, Paul connects the fact
  456. 38:32of having seen the risen Jesus to being an apostle.
  457. 38:35So I agree with you, Tony, like in that sense,
  458. 38:38an apostle in the New Testament was one who had seen Jesus
  459. 38:42and experienced a relationship with the risen Lord,
  460. 38:46I mean, had seen the risen Jesus.
  461. 38:49But then in 2 Timothy 4, 2 Paul said, preach the word.
  462. 38:54So in the sense of a sent one
  463. 38:58and definitely preaching the word,
  464. 39:00exhorting, correcting, rebuking, instructing, and righteousness.
  465. 39:06Hopefully every person faithfully carrying out
  466. 39:10their great commission ministry is being an apostle
  467. 39:14in that sense.
  468. 39:15We're going to go to Oklahoma, Carolyn in Oklahoma.
  469. 39:20Carolyn, thanks for holding and welcome to the program.
  470. 39:24Thank you.
  471. 39:25I'm a first time caller and I appreciate you taking my call because I listened to you quite
  472. 39:29often but never gotten through.
  473. 39:31So I have a grandson that is in his 20.
  474. 39:40He attended church with us, his grandparents, a lot of it when he was a boy and was saved
  475. 39:46baptized as a young, as about 11-year-old boy. And so he,
  476. 39:52the violent way, when he was about 17, I guess you might say he got involved through a friend with
  477. 40:06LDS Church. And so for a few years, he was involved with LDS and not to be critical, but just to say,
  478. 40:16I think he was searching for a way to try to save his dad, you might say, because his dad was not a
  479. 40:22Christian and you know in their church it seems to me from what he explained to us
  480. 40:27was that it could be baptized for his ancestors who were not saved and so he
  481. 40:33was baptized twice once for himself and once for his ancestors I guess and I
  482. 40:38think that was his way of trying to save his dad maybe I'm not sure but anyway
  483. 40:44after a few years he pulled out of LDS and he has not come back to any Christian
  484. 40:51church as his grandparents and and he was never disrespectful. He has a full-time job
  485. 41:02is working on his education and all those things but he has a distance from any kind
  486. 41:09of faith based organization and you know we so during those three years you know we tried
  487. 41:18we didn't nag him but we tried to get him involved with our church and that kind of thing but we
  488. 41:23always just, you know, he always sat down and was very respectful. We had
  489. 41:27supper time and, you know, all of those things. So don't really know
  490. 41:32he's living on his own now and, you know, taking care of himself and all those things.
  491. 41:37I just really don't know how to reach him as far as his faith is concerned.
  492. 41:44You know, thank you. Thank you for calling in. And I think about
  493. 41:49a young man that I had the privilege of leading to Christ
  494. 41:54some years ago in North Carolina, he was raised by his grandfather and his grandfather died,
  495. 42:01and they weren't sure that his grandfather was saved. And so he became an atheist. And I
  496. 42:08was sharing with this young man, I said, the idea that your grandfather is not in heaven
  497. 42:13is just so intolerable. So you've become an atheist because at least you're telling yourself,
  498. 42:19well, if there's no God, there's no afterlife, and if there's no afterlife, there's no
  499. 42:23a possibility that my grandfather who I loved is not in heaven. I'm going to say this and
  500. 42:30I'm going to bring you an Tony Cook. Very often emotional pain can lead to intellectual skepticism.
  501. 42:39And it sounds like there was something appealing, the LDS have this baptism for the dead thing,
  502. 42:46which is not biblical. But I'm glad he came out of it. Now we need to pray and I'm praying
  503. 42:52that God will use you to help bring Him back to the solid ground of following the Lord Jesus Christ.
  504. 43:00But Tony, I want you to weigh in on this very often the painful things of life. And I would say this,
  505. 43:08the thing about, okay, his father died and his father was not a Christian, but the only person's
  506. 43:16heart that we can truly speak authoritatively on is our own. And it can be very dangerous
  507. 43:23and unhealthy to obsess about the spiritual fate of someone who we just don't know. The
  508. 43:30only one I can really speak about is my own heart. But Tony, you're not only a scholar,
  509. 43:37I know you're a shepherd and you're a pastor. How would you begin to minister to a young
  510. 43:43man in such a situation.
  511. 43:45Yeah, well first of all, I want to commend Carolyn's care and concern, you know, for this young
  512. 43:53man and her desire that he comes full circle and comes back.
  513. 44:01And Carolyn, you mentioned that he did get saved and baptized.
  514. 44:05Did you say when he was 11?
  515. 44:11But at a certain age, he did get saved.
  516. 44:14So our faith is that that seed that got planted in him,
  517. 44:20the Word of God and the Holy Spirit,
  518. 44:24that God will bring him back around full circle.
  519. 44:29I think, Alex, what you said about the emotional pain,
  520. 44:33creating not only skepticism,
  521. 44:36but maybe other buffers and looking for solutions,
  522. 44:41solutions, even if they're not founded in scripture, you know, people just so desperately
  523. 44:48want, you know, to be able to do something and, you know, maybe that could be going into
  524. 44:53indulgences, you know, trying to get a loved one, you know,
  525. 44:59by somebody out of purgatory.
  526. 45:00Yeah.
  527. 45:01Yeah, but you know the practice of baptism for the dead is never
  528. 45:11Prescribed in scripture. It is
  529. 45:14described and Paul really just mentioned it in passing in
  530. 45:191 Corinthians chapter 15 and he did not refer to it as a Christian
  531. 45:26He said about why are they
  532. 45:29baptized for the dead if there is no resurrection. He didn't say why are we
  533. 45:35baptized for the dead. He was referring to a pagan practice. And so we kind of
  534. 45:42have to balance out here the desire to be very compassionate and very sensitive to
  535. 45:48somebody who's hurting versus our commitment to biblical truth. And you know,
  536. 45:57So we want to walk compassion, we want to walk tenderly.
  537. 46:02But my heart goes out to this young man.
  538. 46:06We can be sincere, but we can be sincerely wrong.
  539. 46:10And my prayer is that he will find his peace in the scripture.
  540. 46:17And part of that means there are some situations.
  541. 46:21We just have to leave it in the hands of God.
  542. 46:24And like you said, Alex, there are some things.
  543. 46:27we don't know. We are not omniscient. The Bible says that we know in part and we prophesy in part.
  544. 46:36But thank God for the part that we know and thank God for the part that we can prophesy or
  545. 46:42preach or teach or share. And I don't share this to be traumatic to anyone, but if there's somebody
  546. 46:50listening and they've lost a loved one and they think, man, that reminds me. I don't know if this
  547. 46:56person that I knew was even saved. We have to commit their soul to the hands of a kind
  548. 47:05loving but righteous God. If we're looking for some factual, even though we may not want
  549. 47:13facts, because the facts may bother us a little bit, but I think of the rich man who died in
  550. 47:20Luke chapter 16 and Jesus gave this description of this individual who missed Eredice and his
  551. 47:31one desire of not being in Eredice, not being in the place of comfort was that those he loved
  552. 47:41and left behind would not experience the same situation.
  553. 47:50And so I think we can very confidently say that there's someone we loved and cared about
  554. 47:58who perhaps did not make heaven.
  555. 48:01Their one desire is that we make heaven.
  556. 48:05So one of the ways to honor their life, whether it was everything it could have been or should
  557. 48:12have been, is that we want to make sure that our hearts are right with God, and that would
  558. 48:20be their great desire as well.
  559. 48:23Tony Cook, that's a good word and sister, we are praying for you as you are used by God
  560. 48:28to bring this young man back to Christ.
  561. 48:32Folks, the greatest thing in the world is to know Jesus and then, whoever you are, whatever
  562. 48:37your station in life, to invest yourself in his great commission.
  563. 48:42That counts for eternity.
  564. 48:43Thanks for listening.
  565. 48:44Thank you, Dr. Tundee Cook, for being on with us.
  566. 48:46Bobby Rosa, Jeff McIntosh, Marty Sparks, all the great folks helping us do the programming
  567. 48:52for AFR.
  568. 48:53Thank you one and all.
  569. 48:54Tell somebody about the American Family Radio Network, but tell everybody about Jesus.
  570. 49:07The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
  571. 49:12Family Association or American Family Radio.

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