Shining Light: The Call to Christian Action in Dark Times

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28and now the Hamilton Corner. The future of America depends on the Christian training of young people.
11. 0:37Alex McFarland here, guess who said that quote? That's a great quote, isn't it? The future of the
12. 0:42country depends on the Christian training of young people. It was our first president, George
13. 0:47Washington, who said that. And with that quote, I welcome you to today's edition of the Hamilton
14. 0:52Corner. Alex McFarland here sitting in for a Hamilton the third. And you may know me from exploring
15. 0:59the Word, which is the Bible teaching show we've done on the American Family
16. 1:02Radio Network for more than 16 years now. Praise God. And I've got the great
17. 1:07privilege of guest hosting on a lot of the programs. Also, we got a very important
18. 1:12show today because later on in the show we're gonna have Lauren Green from Fox
19. 1:16News in New York. You've seen the riots in France and there are threats now.
20. 1:22Arson on the Cathedral at Notre Dame. Lauren Green was there when they
21. 1:27rededicated the more than $1 billion restoration and we're going to talk about that and more.
22. 1:34But right now, oh my goodness, I've got one of my most valued friends and colleagues in
23. 1:39the ministry.
24. 1:40His name is Sammy Hudson.
25. 1:42Sammy is the visionary founder of really one of the greatest camps in America.
26. 1:47I've rented camps in, I don't know, 25, 28 states, the refuge in Aden, North Carolina.
27. 1:56down east, kind of east of Raleigh, but the refuge is just, there's nothing like it. I mean,
28. 2:02it's just one of the finest Christian camps. And we will be there next summer, July 18th through 23,
29. 2:09with another one of our youth apologetics and biblical worldview camps. And Sammy's just always a
30. 2:15very insightful brother and resource. I love to glean his wisdom. We're going to talk a little bit
31. 2:21about the youth and the worldview of our young people. He's made time to be with us now. Welcome
32. 2:27to the American Family Radio Network, Sammy Hudson. Welcome, brother. Hey, Alex. It's so good to be
33. 2:34with you and even a very cool privilege to be on the Abraham show with you this evening.
34. 2:39Yeah, indeed. Hey, before we go any farther, I want to talk about young people because you've got
35. 2:45your finger on the pulse of what America's teens believe. But give us a website, tell us about the
36. 2:51refuge. I just love that place. It's one of my favorite places in the world. But bring us up to
37. 2:58speed on all things refuge. Yes, so we're buzzing right along. The website's nc, like North Carolina
38. 3:06ncrefuge.org. And there are kids here right now, as we're speaking, Ralph's on my window. I see kids
39. 3:14canoeing and learning about God's creation through water ecology and so there's all kinds of things
40. 3:20going on here even in the outside of summer months. But we are excited about what God is doing here.
41. 3:25We're busy all the way up until our Christmas light show where we share the gospel in lights
42. 3:30for the month of December and last year we had 5,300 cars drive through to see the gospel in
43. 3:36the refuge. This is really a cool ministry in itself. But I'm excited about what God is doing
44. 3:41in our country and our youth are hungry just to say it plainly. There's a lot of
45. 3:49things going in some good directions. I know people speak negatively a lot about
46. 3:53what's going on with our teenagers, but the reality is they know they've been
47. 3:58lied to for so long by the culture. They're looking for someone to share truth.
48. 4:02We find it. Yeah I do think young people are hungry you know ever since
49. 4:10It's Charlie Kirk got shot in Utah.
50. 4:14Just days after Charlie Kirk's assassination, Sammy, we had a big citywide of Angelistic Crusade
51. 4:21in the Jackson, Mississippi area near the state capital of Mississippi.
52. 4:26We turned away people every night.
53. 4:28There were, I mean, it was standing remotely.
54. 4:30Then this past summer of 26, for the first time in 28 years of doing youth camps, I had
55. 4:38a waiting list at every camp, literally Pennsylvania, Montana, Georgia.
56. 4:45And so I guess I'd love to get your message to the adults out there and maybe the youth
57. 4:51leaders, the volunteers or Sunday school teachers.
58. 4:56How receptive are America's middle school, high school teenagers to solid biblical truth?
59. 5:05They're hungry, aren't they, Sammy?
60. 5:06They are very hungry and the hard part about it is a lot of the parents feel ill equipped
61. 5:13to teach their kids biblical worldview because the reality is a lot of churches aren't biblical
62. 5:19worldview churches.
63. 5:21They still hold on to a secular worldview of evolution and they miss the idea that the
64. 5:26first page of the Bible has to be true for the rest of it to be true.
65. 5:30Amen brother.
66. 5:32Right on.
67. 5:33It's fun to share with them. My wife and I are teaching a class now in our church
68. 5:38just about the foundations of God's Word and why it's all true and
69. 5:43What we realize is the parents the parents I've realized we've been lied to our whole life
70. 5:48And I'm excited that they're thirsty that they want to grow
71. 5:52but in order for us to
72. 5:53To have
73. 5:55Good conversations with the with the children with the youth we have to train the parents as well
74. 6:00So we just the reality is we have a not a fully biblical illiterate society in America
75. 6:05But there's a lot of people that just have not spent time in God's word
76. 6:09And so that's the real training ground
77. 6:11We certainly get excited about training the students, but if they could go home and have time with with other parents in the word it changes everything
78. 6:19It really does and you know talking about apologetics
79. 6:23For those that may not be aware
80. 6:26apologetics is the the evidence for the Bible for Christianity
81. 6:30Christianity, defending the faith.
82. 6:33I truly believe, Sammy, that youth ministry today has got to include an apologetics element
83. 6:42about why this is true.
84. 6:44We know it's true and we could talk a lot about that.
85. 6:46But in your approach, as you create the curriculum for the refuge summer camp, do you share that
86. 6:54view that apologetics is really, really significant these days?
87. 6:58Yes, in every week from our elementary weeks through our high school weeks, it's important
88. 7:03at every level.
89. 7:04And oftentimes people say, well, just share Jesus.
90. 7:06And yes, we want to share Jesus, but we have to give the reason why we need to share Jesus.
91. 7:12And so we have to start at the very beginning and walk through and train students that the
92. 7:16Bible is reliable and be able to give answers because the reality is kids are going off to
93. 7:20college and they're falling flat on their face because they can't.
94. 7:24They don't know the Bible well enough or aren't able to give answers or are not on a solid
95. 7:29enough foundation to be able to continue in their faith.
96. 7:32And they just, they fall away from church and God's word because they're intimidated by the
97. 7:38questions that the culture asks.
98. 7:40And so we have to train the students on what it is to be able to stand firm and to have
99. 7:45confidence that God's word does not fail.
100. 7:48It is secure and will never be torn down in any way.
101. 7:54You know, Sammy, in the late 80s, when I first became a Christian, I was in college and,
102. 7:59you know, I was a new believer at age 21.
103. 8:03And I just, from the get-go, I just believed the Bible.
104. 8:06But I remember I had college professors who said, well, there was no King David.
105. 8:12There never was a man named King David or the Exodus never happened.
106. 8:18And over the last 40 years, folks, the archaeological evidence, they have had a lot of evidence.
107. 8:24I have found multiple, multiple inscriptions that reference,
108. 8:29that reference Abraham, Joshua, King David, the Exodus,
109. 8:35King Solomon who had horse stables that could hold 750 horses each.
110. 8:42When I was in college, I was told that was just exaggeration.
111. 8:46Well, I have walked one of those 750 horse stables
112. 8:51that has been excavated in the Holy Land.
113. 8:54And to me, it's so exciting.
114. 8:56Yes, we believe by faith we put our trust in Jesus.
115. 9:00But over and over and over, the archeology and the history
116. 9:06has corroborated and validated what the Bible says,
117. 9:09and kids need to know this, don't they?
118. 9:11Yeah, there's so much evidence that shows up every day,
119. 9:15proving the Bible more and more true,
120. 9:17not the other way around.
121. 9:19I do believe it takes way more faith to trust the secular worldview than to trust the creation or the biblical worldview
122. 9:26Of how we got here. That's one of the biggest questions we get asked is how do we get here?
123. 9:30Yeah, kids won't know and and the bible gives a solid answer in fact
124. 9:35It gives the only answer that makes sense
125. 9:38In the world that we live in so we get excited when kids come to camp and they're thirsty
126. 9:42So whether they're in first grade or in a senior in high school
127. 9:46the gospel is shared with them from starting from the beginning and walking through and I get amazed every time when kids say the Bible really says that
128. 9:57Yes, it really says that and they get so excited when they know now they have something
129. 10:03They're more equipped when they go home. They get excited to share with their parents and parents have told me we spend hours with our kids
130. 10:08When they get home with them asking more questions about the Bible
131. 10:12And so, and I, the same thing happens with me and my wife.
132. 10:16After listening to AFR listening to you or Abraham Hamilton,
133. 10:19like we get excited about what's going on in the world
134. 10:21that we live in from the biblical worldview.
135. 10:23And we have questions and God continues to grow us
136. 10:26and nurture us in him through his word.
137. 10:29You know, folks, if you're just tuning in,
138. 10:31the voice you're hearing is Sammy Hudson,
139. 10:33long time friend and colleague.
140. 10:34He is the founder and leader of The Refuge,
141. 10:38which is a Christian camp in my home state of North Carolina.
142. 10:41and we've done a lot of events there over the years.
143. 10:43We're gonna be back there, July 18th through 23,
144. 10:47doing one of our youth camps.
145. 10:48And I know right now you're probably thinking less
146. 10:51about next summer and more about, you know, fall 26.
147. 10:56But here's the thing, summer of 27 is gonna be upon us
148. 11:00really soon.
149. 11:01And we would love for your youth group to come.
150. 11:04I'd love for you to come to my week
151. 11:05that I'm gonna be there teaching,
152. 11:07but you need to check out the refuge.
153. 11:09And let me say I've been to camps all over the place.
154. 11:13Sammy, when I was there last summer,
155. 11:15you were wrapping up one of the most beautiful chapels
156. 11:19over by this massively huge lake.
157. 11:22How did you guys finish up that beautiful chapel, brother?
158. 11:26Yeah, it should be finished by the end of the year.
159. 11:28We have our first wedding planned to be in there
160. 11:30on March the 4th.
161. 11:32And so it needs to be ready by the end anyways.
162. 11:36And here with you, we have begun construction
163. 11:38on the seed company, which is where we are going to share the hope of Jesus every day.
164. 11:44So we're excited about that.
165. 11:45Well, at the refuge, I love it because what you've done, you've gotten all these historic
166. 11:51buildings like, kind of looks like Victorian houses.
167. 11:56Folks, everything about it is top drawer.
168. 11:58There's a really, really, really big outdoor swimming pool.
169. 12:02There's a lake.
170. 12:03There's horseback riding.
171. 12:05Oh my goodness.
172. 12:07And besides all the great Bible teaching, but I'm going to tell you, Sammy, if you would
173. 12:12describe, and we always do this on the final day after dark, we walk to the other side of
174. 12:18one of the lakes and go to the cross.
175. 12:22And that's pretty, pretty meaningful, isn't it?
176. 12:26Yeah, we call it our lantern walk.
177. 12:29We have lanterns set up around the cross and kids, we share the gospel and they have a chance
178. 12:33to walk to the cross in their own time, in their own space.
179. 12:36We break them up as a group. They journey the cross by themselves and spend time with the Lord and they leave with a lantern kind of signifying
180. 12:43Rebirth or the Holy Spirit walking with them being a lamp unto their feet
181. 12:48But it's a time for students to recognize that they can speak to God. They can spend time with him. He's very personal
182. 12:53He wants to know them. It's a very emotional time even though our faith is not emotional
183. 12:59It can be but but accepting Christ is not an emotional thing. It's it's a true thing God
184. 13:03give us hope through Jesus. And so that moment is really powerful to watch the
185. 13:09lanterns walk back around the lake in each of these hands realizing that they
186. 13:15just encountered the God that created everything out of nothing in a new way.
187. 13:20And he hears them when they speak just the same way he hears us. And he wants to
188. 13:26know us intimately. He already does. The question is do we want to know him
189. 13:30intimately. And so that door is open. So we allow students to have that space and we, our counselors
190. 13:36spend time waiting there, ready to pray with them and to hang out with them and to love on them.
191. 13:40And so it's a very powerful moment for sure. Thanks for asking about that.
192. 13:46Well, yeah, because you and I both, I speak, you speak, we've got, you know, great speakers,
193. 13:53including some AFR personalities that we've had there. But on that last day, I mean, we really
194. 13:58call the youth to a commitment. About two weeks ago, I haven't told you this, but I was on the road.
195. 14:04And whenever I'm in the mid-Atlantic regions, you know, I meet people that have been to the refuge.
196. 14:09And I met a young person who said, I'm really walking with Jesus. And I said, how'd you
197. 14:16commit to Christ? And they said, the final night of my time at the refuge made that walk to the cross
198. 14:23and they're living it. Hey, we got to take a break. Sammy, I hear some music. Before we take a
199. 14:28brief break give your website please. NCrefuge.org you can find out about us there. NCrefuge.org
200. 14:38I'll be there July 18th through 23. We've got more with Sammy Hudson plus Lauren Green from Fox News.
201. 14:44Alex McFarlane here stay tuned that AFR network is back after this brief break don't go away.
202. 15:00Hello I'm Abraham Hamilton the third. Did you know that this content is listener supported?
203. 15:05Without people like you, this podcast would not exist.
204. 15:08That's why we need you.
205. 15:10A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio,
206. 15:13and specifically this podcast.
207. 15:15Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today
208. 15:18by visiting aFR.net slash GIF.
209. 15:21That's aFR.net slash GIF.
210. 15:34Shiting, light into the darkness.
211. 15:37This is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
212. 15:41Welcome back to the program, Alex McFarland here.
213. 15:44always an honor to be sitting in for Abe Hamilton. He is the host of the Hamilton Corner. And I get
214. 15:50great privilege of subbing for him sometimes when he's traveling. And so by the way, if you like Bible
215. 15:58teaching, we are on exploring the word three to four p.m. Central, four to five, four to five
216. 16:04Eastern Monday through Friday. Right now we're wrapping up the book of Matthew. And in the last 16
217. 16:10years I think Bert Harper and I have taught through the complete Word of God like three
218. 16:15times like every single verse. And so check out Exploring the Word and all the good programming
219. 16:22on the American Family Radio Network. By the way my website is just my name AlexMcFarlane.com.
220. 16:29We've got a lot going on. One of the things that I've got next summer we're doing a tour
221. 16:34called Revive US and we've got a big big event in Florence Alabama that's right
222. 16:40near Huntsville Alabama, Rocket City if you know where Huntsville is and will
223. 16:45be in the Florence Lauderdale Coliseum that's August 567. I'll be there with
224. 16:52E.W. Jackson a whole lot of things going on. We'll be in Bentonville, Arkansas at
225. 16:58doing one of our Revive US tour events and all over the country and so if you're
226. 17:03interested. All of our deal, and I know Sammy Hudson would concur, we love to see the body
227. 17:09of believers work together, no matter your denomination, but look, if you're a friend
228. 17:15of Jesus, we're family and we need to pray together, work together, bring people, especially
229. 17:21young people under the sound of the gospel. If you want further information about all that
230. 17:27I feel God has called me to do to travel America and stir up the body of Christ, you can
231. 17:33reach me through AlexMcFarlane.com. But Sammy, the refuge, you're correct me if I'm wrong,
232. 17:41but I would say interdenominational, solidly Christian, solidly biblical, but Christians
233. 17:48of all strata come to the refuge, don't they?
234. 17:51Yeah, from all walks of life, they come with strong faith, they come with no faith, but
235. 17:56we want them to hear about Jesus when they come to camp. And so we welcome anybody who
236. 18:02wants to learn and grow in their faith. And that's what we're here for. Our mission is
237. 18:06to share and model the hope of Jesus. And that's who we are at our core. And so yes, we have
238. 18:10different denominations that come in, they're part of what we do, some non-denominations.
239. 18:14So it's really not about the divisions that we create on earth. It's about the unity of
240. 18:18the body of Christ together. And so that's what we all forget the refuge.
241. 18:22Amen. When did you start this camp?
242. 18:26Yes, my wife and I stepped out in faith in 2007. So this is our 20th year coming up.
243. 18:32So we're excited about that.
244. 18:34And believe it or not, the 165 acres we sit on
245. 18:37was the unofficial trash dump of our county.
246. 18:40Oh, really?
247. 18:41And so I'd redeem this land,
248. 18:43and then we moved old farmhouses out here
249. 18:45off of an old foundation and put them on a new foundation
250. 18:47here at the refuge.
251. 18:48So he redeems the buildings that kids stay in
252. 18:50so they can bring kids here and introduce themselves
253. 18:53so they can become a new creation in him.
254. 18:55So this whole place is a story of redemption for Jesus.
255. 18:59And so it's it, that's why it's a special place
256. 19:01because it's something that only God could put together.
257. 19:04Exactly.
258. 19:05And I've known you a few years.
259. 19:09For one thing, I admire you for,
260. 19:11well, you stand on the Bible unapologetically
261. 19:14and you're zealously teaching God's Word.
262. 19:17I think that's how you and I got to be kind of brothers
263. 19:19in arms, but you got a work ethic that I admire.
264. 19:25And I just appreciate that.
265. 19:26Do you ever look back at you and your wife started this camp
266. 19:29and you've got staff and you've got counselors every summer,
267. 19:32but do you ever look back and say,
268. 19:35what was I thinking?
269. 19:37Well, a lot of times, for sure.
270. 19:40But then we have those moments like my wife and I
271. 19:42come over in the evening after campers have gone on
272. 19:44and we watch the sunset across the lake
273. 19:46and we just look at each other and we're so grateful
274. 19:49that God called us to be a part of this together.
275. 19:52And because it really has been an incredible journey,
276. 19:55I am totally not adequate to do what God has done here
277. 19:59through me, but he calls people that just don't feel equipped to do things that only
278. 20:04he can do.
279. 20:05So it's been a joy.
280. 20:06Well, you wrote a book about that.
281. 20:09And by the way, I don't feel adequate either.
282. 20:12But how God takes our humility and our inadequacy, and he works through us, doesn't he?
283. 20:20Yes, every day.
284. 20:24So here's my, I want to throw this to you.
285. 20:27People are listening all across America, and look, they're unsaved people, they're youth
286. 20:32that need direction, they need Christ, they need to build their life on the unshakable
287. 20:36rock of God's holy word.
288. 20:39What do you say to the person listening who's somewhere in America?
289. 20:43And they say, okay, sure, God had a vision for Sammy Hudson, but what about me?
290. 20:49Does God have assignments for every believer, Sammy?
291. 20:52Yeah, he's prepared good works and advanced for us to do.
292. 20:57So the reality is, if you're not feeling that you're in the middle of that calling, he's
293. 21:02preparing you for that calling.
294. 21:05And so be aware that God is in your circumstances, whatever they may be at that moment, he's preparing
295. 21:11you for something that he has planned in advance for you to do.
296. 21:15And it's not always the grand things here on earth.
297. 21:18We all the time we think, hey, it's gonna be some big grand thing that in the scheme of things.
298. 21:22But we mention that by earthly standards and God's standards are very different.
299. 21:26So it may not be something that we see as a huge deal on earth, but it's a huge deal in heaven.
300. 21:31And so we're following the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
301. 21:35And he's in the middle of preparing you for something that is grand in eternity.
302. 21:40And so...
303. 21:41Yeah, go ahead. Grand in eternity.
304. 21:44Yeah, yeah, I heard somebody say that, you know,
305. 21:47Everybody like we like to think we would do great things for God. Oh, I would do magnificent great things for God
306. 21:53But I think we need to think about doing the quote unquote little things for God
307. 21:57You know be there on Sundays at a good Bible believing church help set out the chairs for Sunday school
308. 22:06be a part of a prayer team and
309. 22:09You know Sammy you and I both have been privileged to do some kind of
310. 22:13visible thing, public things.
311. 22:17But I read Matthew 633 and folks listen to this.
312. 22:21It says, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness
313. 22:26and all these other things will be added to you.
314. 22:29I think number one, we got to every day say,
315. 22:31look, I'm gonna walk with Jesus.
316. 22:33I'm a disciple.
317. 22:35I'm gonna serve the Lord.
318. 22:36I'm gonna love my spouse and family.
319. 22:39I'm gonna be a part of a church.
320. 22:41And before we do the quote unquote great things,
321. 22:43We got to be obedient in the everyday things, the little things, don't we?
322. 22:48Yeah.
323. 22:48And you and I are both blessed with great brides.
324. 22:51And my wife, you know, she would see her ministry and to our kids and, you know,
325. 22:58to the homeschool groups and stuff she's a part of.
326. 23:00It's her greatest ministry.
327. 23:01But the reality is her greatest ministry is the day to day things that she does for me
328. 23:06and that she doesn't get applauded for most of the time.
329. 23:09Cause I don't, I don't jump and shout for joy as much as I should.
330. 23:12but we're both blessed men because of all the little things, the day to day things that
331. 23:17our brides do for us and hopefully we return back to them.
332. 23:21And so yes, it's even the refuge.
333. 23:24It's not a grand thing.
334. 23:26I believe it's a big and a grand camp, but it's every day walking the journeys, little
335. 23:31things every day that add up to something that the only God can do is reality.
336. 23:37Well, I want to commend you. I've been there many, many times. When we drive onto the premises,
337. 23:45I feel the presence of the Lord. I really do. And I know there's been a lot of prayer bathed
338. 23:52over those acres, which is 165 acres, something like that.
339. 23:57Yes. Yeah.
340. 23:58So, listen, folks, we're talking about passing the baton of faith to the next generation. I
341. 24:04I want to encourage you, even if you've got one or two or three,
342. 24:08be a part of Sunday school with children and youth.
343. 24:11Consider coming to one of our summer camps,
344. 24:14but go to the website, ncrefuge.org.
345. 24:18And by the way, Tim Wildman,
346. 24:19the president of the American Family Association,
347. 24:22he knows about our camps and all that we do.
348. 24:24And he told me we were on radio about, I don't know,
349. 24:27three weeks ago, he said, look, you have my blessing.
350. 24:30You promote, promote, promote those youth camps.
351. 24:33So that's what we're doing.
352. 24:34But hey, man, we're keeping you in prayer.
353. 24:37I know you got a lot going on.
354. 24:39So we'll be talking and Sammy Hudson of the Refuge.
355. 24:43Thank you for what you're doing for God and country.
356. 24:47God bless, Alex.
357. 24:48You have a great evening.
358. 24:49God bless you.
359. 24:50Thanks very much.
360. 24:51Alex McFarland here.
361. 24:52This is the American Family Radio Network.
362. 24:54And we are on the Hamilton Corner.
363. 24:58I'm going to shift gears just a little bit.
364. 25:00Another colleague in the work is Lauren Green of Fox News.
365. 25:05She was at the rededication of the Cathedral at Notre Dame
366. 25:09a couple of years ago.
367. 25:10And I want to talk about that because there's been,
368. 25:12as everyone knows, a lot of rioting
369. 25:15and just dangerous stuff going on in France.
370. 25:19We'll get to that.
371. 25:20But first of all, I want to say Lauren Green,
372. 25:21thanks for making time to be with us.
373. 25:23Good morning.
374. 25:24Good morning to you.
375. 25:25Thank you so much for asking me.
376. 25:27Well, thank you.
377. 25:28on very short notice, but I appreciate you very much.
378. 25:32A lot of news of the day that I want to talk about,
379. 25:35by the way, Lauren and I will be at the Cove next summer,
380. 25:39the Billy Graham Training Center in Western North Carolina.
381. 25:43And Lauren will be talking about Biblical worldview
382. 25:46and very honored that you are one of the speakers.
383. 25:49But congratulations on an incredible career
384. 25:53still in process with Fox News.
385. 25:56Oh, thank you so much.
386. 25:57I can't believe we've been here 30 years.
387. 26:01It's just been an amazing journey.
388. 26:03And of course, I started here when I was 10.
389. 26:06So yeah, exactly.
390. 26:08Exactly.
391. 26:09So well, a couple of weeks ago, I was on the road in,
392. 26:13I was in like five states in about three days.
393. 26:17And it seemed like every hotel lobby
394. 26:20that I was going through or every airport,
395. 26:23there were monitors talking about 30 years of Fox News and most of it showed you.
396. 26:30Tell us about that because you were were you the first on air anchor?
397. 26:36It was the first on air person hired for Fox News channel and I still remember the interview
398. 26:41today because I had come to New York to from Chicago. I was working in Chicago. I'm from Minnesota
399. 26:46but I was working in Chicago and I really wanted to kind of work in New York because of my interest
400. 26:52in the arts, you know, my pianist, so art is really big. So I had a couple of interviews set up,
401. 26:58my agent had interview set up, you know, the normal, you know, networks. And while I was in town,
402. 27:04he said, oh, by the way, Fox would really like to get an interview with you because
403. 27:10they're starting this cable network. And I was like, oh, cable, oh my goodness, you know, because
404. 27:15it was such a, you know, the ugly, you know, the poor stepchild of the TV business.
405. 27:22So, um, and but he said, you know what, the people who are putting this together, you've got,
406. 27:27you know, Rorodok, Roger Ailes is amazing. And she said, you know, you really need to talk with
407. 27:32these people. And so I went into the interview and we had a great conversation. And, um, and that
408. 27:38was, that was it, you know, I got hired. So I was really excited to come to New York.
409. 27:45Well, and you know, I remember those days, see that there was the big three ABC, NBC, CBS.
410. 27:50And 30 years later, I mean, it's the absolute inverse of that cable is isn't it right?
411. 27:58I mean, I think the networks are still very much prominent in the news business, but they all have some kind of cable, you know, network going as well. I mean, I think what was ABC is still, you know, there's tentacles into ESPN and, you know, the streaming of that.
412. 28:18And of course, NBC has MSNBC, CBS has something too, I work out with it.
413. 28:25But I mean, they're all kind of in that streaming cable network because that's really where people
414. 28:29are getting their news and their information and their entertainment really too as well.
415. 28:35What are some of the most unforgettable stories that you've covered in the journey so far?
416. 28:41Well, it has to be all of the the Conclaves in Rome.
417. 28:46is conclave now that elected Pope Leo, the 14th is my third conclave.
418. 28:53I was there for Pope Benedict and then Pope Francis and then Pope Leo.
419. 28:58So the sadness of all of those events is usually a pope dies.
420. 29:03In the case of Benedict, of course, he didn't die, he resigned.
421. 29:06So that was a very odd kind of conclave.
422. 29:09But in terms of Pope Francis, you realize the journey of life when you're there, when the
423. 29:18Pope is elected, and then you're there when he dies, and you're there when his successor
424. 29:24is elected.
425. 29:26And it just shows this process of life and how the journey of the church keeps going no
426. 29:31matter who's in power, no matter who's in the seat.
427. 29:36And that's true of all the faith, not just Catholicism.
428. 29:41Did you meet Benedict the 16th?
429. 29:44I did.
430. 29:45I did meet Benedict the 16th, but when he was retired, he was an emeritus pope.
431. 29:51I actually played the piano for him in a concert at the Vatican.
432. 29:55I was one of three artists in a private concert.
433. 29:58I was the only pianist.
434. 29:59There was an opera singer, vocalist, and then a violinist and me.
435. 30:05And so we performed for the Pope, probably about a 45 minute concert in honor of his brothers
436. 30:14Monsignor Ratzinger's 90th birthday.
437. 30:17And so I still have the picture in my office of when he came up afterwards and thanked me
438. 30:24and he was very, he was just so complimentary for my playing and I always remember that
439. 30:31moment.
440. 30:32Yeah, you know back in the 80s, he contributed, well 80s and early 90s to some apologetics
441. 30:38books.
442. 30:39A lot of people don't know that the man that will become Pope Benedict the 16th.
443. 30:44Well he considered really, I mean in terms of the Catholic Church, probably one of the
444. 30:49greatest theologians ever on the same line as Aquinas, you know, and the doctors of the
445. 30:56And that was a great for John Paul II is that he was the theological mind behind John Paul II
446. 31:04So I think when John Paul II died
447. 31:09the Cardinals were just of course wanting to
448. 31:13Preserve that theological mind in in insight through
449. 31:18Cardinal Ratzinger who became Pope Benedict XVI then he wanted to retire
450. 31:22He just wanted to go back home to Regensburg and do what he always did, which is write the
451. 31:27Elantical books.
452. 31:28Indeed.
453. 31:29Indeed.
454. 31:30We're talking with Lauren Green of Fox News.
455. 31:32We're going to talk about France and the fire.
456. 31:35And I want to talk a little bit about the Cathedral at Notre Dame in April of 2019.
457. 31:40It was a devastating fire.
458. 31:43And yet the Cathedral was rebuilt.
459. 31:46And you were there at the rededication, weren't you?
460. 31:49I was, you know, it was such an emotional moment to be there at the rededication of this
461. 31:55grand-domb, you know, this cathedral, even though it's part of Roman Catholicism, it is part of Christianity's
462. 32:02landmark heritage. And, you know, early on, of course, there was this feeling that, oh,
463. 32:08the fire, oh, it must have been set by, you know, Islamic extremists, but it turned out to be...
464. 32:13We've got a break. Lauren, forgive me. We've got to pull away for a break. We've got a brief break.
465. 32:17we're going to come back on the American Family Radio Network with Lauren Green talking about
466. 32:22the danger of arson in France. So stay tuned, we're back after this.
467. 32:34Well Fred, it is today's three weeks away from the election, mid-term election, and a lot of talk
468. 32:41about how this is going to go for Republicans especially, probably going to maybe lose the house
469. 32:47and the Senate. There is always talk at election time that Christians should stay out of the
470. 32:53political process, just be spiritual and win-lossals, all that is important. What would you say
471. 33:00to people who are wondering whether they should go out, get registered if there's still time
472. 33:05and a vote in three weeks?
473. 33:07Well, political issues are Christian issues when we talk about things like abortion. When
474. 33:13When we talk about men who say there are women and want to go into women's restrooms
475. 33:19and play in women's sports.
476. 33:21I mean, that's not just a political issue.
477. 33:23It is a Christian issue.
478. 33:26And I've been reading some interesting articles in Decision Magazine, Franklin Graham talking
479. 33:33about this, a gentleman from the Colson Center.
480. 33:38Socialism is a Christian issue.
481. 33:41is about making man God. The system that America has made America success is obedience to God's
482. 33:51Word. Yes, there are problem areas. But there is a huge difference and it is a spiritual issue
483. 33:58because when socialism comes in, it's man-celebrating man. Man becomes God. Man oversees everything.
484. 34:07And I'll tell you what, we just have to look at other countries that have tried socialism.
485. 34:12They basically want to chase Christianity at the end of the scene.
486. 34:17That's right because it's a competing ideology.
487. 34:21I heard Dr. Ray Prichard say that yes, we all understand as Christians that government
488. 34:26can't save our nation, but it sure can't hurt our nation and can do a lot to damage the church
489. 34:33and to become an obstacle to the preaching of the gospel, which of course is the most important.
490. 34:39But Jesus says to be salt and light, and I think it's fair to say that voting and standing up for
491. 34:44biblical values is at least part of that in a country where you're free to vote. And we will
492. 34:49be covering here at American Family Radio Election Night. On November 3rd, you'll be able to tune in
493. 34:55to American Family Radio, and we'll have staff from AFR, from our news team, and special guests
494. 35:02talking about the election and what those results mean for the next two years as we prepare for a
495. 35:08presidential election in 2028. The Hamilton Quarter podcast and One-Bitted Commentaries are
496. 35:23available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio. Welcome back to the program
497. 35:32Alex McFarland here subbing for attorney pastor broadcaster Abe Hamilton the third always honored to
498. 35:38to be on. We're talking with Lauren Green of Fox News. And by the way, Lauren and I will
499. 35:45be at the Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center in Western North Carolina, July 12th through
500. 35:5016th next year, teaching on biblical worldview. And if you've never heard Lauren Green speak
501. 35:56in person, I urge you to be there. By the way, the Cove is phenomenal, five-star chef,
502. 36:03and we think some pretty relevant teaching,
503. 36:08and so the website is thecove.org.
504. 36:11T-H-E-C-O-V-E, thecove.org.
505. 36:16And it always fills up.
506. 36:18I've been so blessed to be there for like 21 or 22 summers,
507. 36:21and also there Dylan Burrows,
508. 36:24who is with the Colson Center.
509. 36:26Dylan Burrow, Dr. Dylan Burrows is a scholar.
510. 36:29He helps out on exploring the word very often,
511. 36:32fantastic young thinker and he's going to be their prolific author as well.
512. 36:38But you might want to next summer come to Western North Carolina and get some
513. 36:42great Bible teaching, biblical worldview content.
514. 36:45And you'll have the privilege of hearing in person Lauren Green and more.
515. 36:50But before the break, Lauren, I kind of ran over the top.
516. 36:54I apologize.
517. 36:55Stop.
518. 36:55Serve at the club is really fantastic too.
519. 36:58Oh, it's real.
520. 36:59There's a yoga machine.
521. 37:02Now, here's the secret hack.
522. 37:06Get some soft serve and then top it off with hot chocolate.
523. 37:10It's phenomenal.
524. 37:12But anyway, Lauren, before the break,
525. 37:16I was talking about the fact that in,
526. 37:19I believe it was December of 24,
527. 37:22you were at the rededication of the cathedral.
528. 37:25So Sunday night, a couple of days ago, I was on the road
529. 37:28and I want your commentary on the rioting in France,
530. 37:32maybe, maybe as many as 800,000 people, very historic courthouse was burned. And there were threats
531. 37:40to burn Notre Dame, which I believe would be a global tragedy. Just your thoughts on the
532. 37:48accommodation of Marxist, Muslims, insurrectionists, political messaging set forth by looting and
533. 37:56and vandalism, your thoughts, Lauren Green.
534. 38:00Well, my thoughts always go to the spiritual element,
535. 38:03and I always talk about even if they're in six,
536. 38:06we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
537. 38:08but against spiritual forces of evil and the heavens and realms.
538. 38:10I mean, you're really wrestling against spiritual forces
539. 38:13behind this, and I can't help but think.
540. 38:15You see, Pope Leo was in France, in Paris,
541. 38:19and oversaw mass for like 800,000 people,
542. 38:27assembled in the Shonsilese, the major thoroughfare for Paris, and it was amazing.
543. 38:34All of these young people just so excited about their faith, and I see this sort of spiritual
544. 38:40movement happening in the Catholic Church, and then the Pope leaves, and not long after that,
545. 38:46you've got these riots.
546. 38:47What is this about?
547. 38:49So the spiritual forces, and I'm thinking from a spiritual point of view, you've got the
548. 38:54devil who's very angry at this at the at the rise of Catholicism, the rise of
549. 39:00of Christianity and the rise of people devoted to Jesus, you've got the devil kind
550. 39:06of really upset. So what can I do to get into the minds and the hearts of people
551. 39:10to upset this? Well, in my mind, okay, it's it's are these riots. Now, let's bring it
552. 39:17down to more of an earthly kind of level. And now you've got people who are upset
553. 39:23about the schools. You've got students protesting, but now from the evidence that we've seen,
554. 39:29and Fox Digital has done this, okay, there's like 36 or 56 groups of those. Maybe there
555. 39:35are about 16 student groups. The rest are just people glotting on to the opportunity
556. 39:43to loot, to steal, to upset the Western values that France really stands for, to upset Christianity,
557. 39:55because the greatest enemy of Islamic extremists is Christianity, because you go for Christians
558. 40:03and you really get the Jews as well, or you can start using go to Christians. Either way,
559. 40:09they are the big enemies of Islamic extremism. And you know, this is not to say that all Muslims
560. 40:16are like this, right? But one of the things you and I understand, and I, and this is one of the
561. 40:21things that's very hard for Western people kind of, growing up in the basking, in the
562. 40:28ambassador of the enlightenment is that, you know, people are equal, but ideas are not,
563. 40:33not all religions are equal and valid paths to God. Amen. This is a reality that modern people
564. 40:41just have to face up to. I love my Muslim neighbors. I love my Hindu neighbors. I love
565. 40:49every person, whatever their belief is. I love that person, but what they what their religion is
566. 40:56not an equal path to God. It can't be. Jesus said, I'm the way the truth in the life and no one comes
567. 41:02to the Father but through me. Now, you cannot believe it, but make no mistake. Jesus is very
568. 41:08sure about who He is and what He came to do. Now, you've got to make a decision about whether
569. 41:13you're going to believe that and worship that or believe something else. Amen. Well said. People
570. 41:19are equal, but ideas, philosophies, religious statements are not all equal. You know, Richard
571. 41:28Dawkins, famed atheist. He and I have emailed back and forth. But even Richard Dawkins, Easter of 25,
572. 41:37he said that he was taking a walk in London on Easter morning and he didn't hear the church
573. 41:44bells of Christendom. He heard the minarets and he said there was almost a fear that went through
574. 41:49him. And suddenly here's this arch atheist, Richard Dawkins, who said, and I quote, he said, I miss
575. 41:56Christianity, because among other things, the Christian DNA of the British culture held
576. 42:06back other worldviews and cultural trends.
577. 42:10And Lauren, do you think in the seats of cultural leadership with the rise of Marxism,
578. 42:18the rise of insurrection and lawlessness, the rise of jihadism, are leaders beginning to
579. 42:24to see what happens in the vacuum that was once occupied by Christianity, but now Christianity
580. 42:31is not there as it once was. Are people saying, uh oh, not good here?
581. 42:37Well, a couple of things I really have to say about this. There are a couple of people
582. 42:41that I want to bring up. First of all, though, I want to talk about why I think it's so important
583. 42:48to evangelize to just everyday Christians, because most Christians, if they're sort
584. 42:53as David W. Miller talked about breathing the air of Christianity,
585. 42:58they're more willing to acquiesce and bend to sort of the whims
586. 43:03of a secular age because they don't understand their own faith.
587. 43:07And I bring up David W. Miller, who was just retiring
588. 43:10from Princeton University, who created the works,
589. 43:16faith and works department at Princeton.
590. 43:19And he's retiring and they're not replacing him
591. 43:21or the department, as far as I understand.
592. 43:24But the idea is that when you've got in the 50s and 60s,
593. 43:28the whole community, the whole country
594. 43:30was infused with Christianity.
595. 43:33We said Christmas vacation and Easter vacation,
596. 43:36not winter vacation and spring vacation,
597. 43:37these vacations were created
598. 43:41around the Christian holiday of Christmas and Easter.
599. 43:45So you've got a Protestant kind of led church
600. 43:50that in the 50s and 60s sort of demystified the faith.
601. 43:55They sort of took the miracles out.
602. 43:57Well, Jesus was a great teacher of love.
603. 43:59And I can be good without going to church.
604. 44:04There's another person that I want to bring up is Jay Warner Wallace.
605. 44:07I know you know Jay Warner Wallace, who's a cool case
606. 44:11Christianity.
607. 44:11One of the things he said, because I interviewed him.
608. 44:15And he's in the new book that I'm writing and coming out in spring.
609. 44:18He talked about when you have,
610. 44:20he didn't talk about the difference between Islam and whatever
611. 44:23that but he says the difference is when you have a religion
612. 44:25that is a works based religion,
613. 44:28that makes all the difference in your worldview.
614. 44:31And a works based religion is saying,
615. 44:33I am good by doing the certain things,
616. 44:37by saying these prayers, by helping my neighbor
617. 44:41or it can be really good things.
618. 44:44But the idea is that I'm saved by what I do and not what, but what somebody else has done for me.
619. 44:51And then Christianity is totally unique in that way.
620. 44:55It is the only religion that says you cannot earn your, your, your, your, your, your salvation
621. 45:02because Jesus already has paid that price.
622. 45:04Yeah.
623. 45:05This is, this is, this is such a different thing.
624. 45:08So when you look at religion from that point of view, then you understand that
625. 45:14Yeah, on a certain level, there are some very good similarities.
626. 45:18But on another level, they're very different.
627. 45:21And I get mad at churches.
628. 45:23I get mad at church.
629. 45:23In fact, the Catholic church, the Catholic bishops and friends just came out
630. 45:28with this statement about what's going on in France, about how we need to understand
631. 45:32what's going on, how we need to, you know, sort of understand what young people need.
632. 45:37And yes, there are a few people who were upsetting the apple card here, but no,
633. 45:40we need to understand.
634. 45:40It's like, no, you need to preach the gospel.
635. 45:43Amen.
636. 45:43That's what you need to be doing.
637. 45:45Amen.
638. 45:46I mean, that's the only thing that's happening is that they're losing sight of the gospel
639. 45:49instead of praying for different things, instead of praying, you know, and being at the city
640. 45:55council or the government seats and actually praying for them to make better decisions,
641. 46:00they are destroying their own environment.
642. 46:05Do you know, Eric Metaxas, longtime friend, oh my goodness, very close colleague, and I'm
643. 46:12I'm sure you've interviewed Eric many times.
644. 46:14Yeah, yeah.
645. 46:15Yeah, he's brilliant.
646. 46:18And just, he is so real.
647. 46:21Let me say this, Eric Metaxis is as authentic a Christian leader as it gets.
648. 46:28He put out a tweet yesterday.
649. 46:29He said, what's ruining the American church is the American pulpit.
650. 46:34And listen, I love the church.
651. 46:35I've spoken in 2,200 American churches over nearly 40 years.
652. 46:40I love the church.
653. 46:41I'm not bashing the church necessarily, but Eric is right about something and believe
654. 46:45me, I've been to the rodeo and back.
655. 46:49Eric said the American pulpit is ruining the American church.
656. 46:53These sermons that are just motivational talks, there's no call to the gospel.
657. 47:00Follow Jesus.
658. 47:01He rose from the dead.
659. 47:03And I hear what you're saying, like these bishops in France, they need to say, look, this
660. 47:06is wrong.
661. 47:08There is objective morality looting, rioting violence.
662. 47:12This is objectively evil.
663. 47:14I've got an example for you.
664. 47:17I've got a much better example for you.
665. 47:19I just heard last Wednesday evening, I believe, the Rowan Williams, who was the former Archbishop
666. 47:26of Canterbury, the Cambridge Archivist of Cambridge.
667. 47:31At the head of the Anglican Church, they had the Church of England.
668. 47:34He was the former Archbishop.
669. 47:37He came to speak at St. Thomas Church in connection with the 911, 25th year of the 911 attacks.
670. 47:46And I was very excited to hear him speak.
671. 47:48He was speaking at solidarity and some other things.
672. 47:51And then I realized through his entire speech, 30, 40 minute speech.
673. 47:56He mentioned Jesus maybe three times.
674. 48:00And it was in passing, not as a center-vote piece of his talk.
675. 48:09Now this is the former Archbishop of Canterbury.
676. 48:12I mean, this is the guy who's in charge of the Anglican Church in England.
677. 48:18And then I realized this is why Christianity is waning in places like the United Kingdom
678. 48:24because they don't preach the gospel.
679. 48:26They preach school justice.
680. 48:29they preach, preach, you know, you know, political diplomacy.
681. 48:35They don't preach the gospel.
682. 48:38I got a quote for you.
683. 48:40And by the way, folks, the voice you're hearing is that of Lauren Green, longtime anchor of
684. 48:44Fox News, just one of the great figures in American journalism and an unapologetic follower
685. 48:51of Christ.
686. 48:53In 1908, Lauren G.K.
687. 48:55Chesterton wrote a biography of Thomas Aquinas.
688. 48:58It's a great book.
689. 49:00And in the introduction,
690. 49:02and here's what I'd like your response to,
691. 49:04this is a hundred years ago,
692. 49:06Chesterton says,
693. 49:07as much as we need to win the loss to Christianity,
694. 49:11more and more we need to win the Christians to Christianity.
695. 49:16Amen to that.
696. 49:18Amen to that.
697. 49:19Well, I talked to a lot of Christians at church
698. 49:24and around town and various places.
699. 49:28And one of the things that's very apparent is that they do,
700. 49:32well many of them treat their faith as sort of an accessory.
701. 49:37Not the center of their faith, not the center of their lives.
702. 49:42It's kind of an accessory, it's sort of a talisman, it's a good luck charm.
703. 49:46And that is not what Christianity is, and not only that,
704. 49:49it's not what any religion is.
705. 49:51Because when you understand what religion actually is, it's your fundamental trust.
706. 49:57What is it you're worshiping every single day of your life?
707. 50:01Are you saying prayers to God?
708. 50:02Are you just saying these, you know, sort of, you know, flying the sky kind of prayers
709. 50:08to, you know, for good fortune, for blessings?
710. 50:11Or are you really exploring the word of God?
711. 50:15I mean, you know, we know that there are two different, there are two different books of
712. 50:18God.
713. 50:19nature which is you know sciences and all that and then there's the holy
714. 50:23scriptures so are you exploring as well they these things really agree are you
715. 50:29exploring as well as there's something else becoming your fundamental trust and
716. 50:32I think the key here go ahead I know you want to go ahead we're almost out of
717. 50:36time we got to have you back on when your third book is released in the meantime
718. 50:40I am assuming people can find you at Fox News dot com our guests Lauren Green
719. 50:45thank you very much and folks pray for France not only for the the unrest to be
720. 50:51smoothed out but for Christianity to be restored. The views and opinions expressed
721. 50:57in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family
722. 51:00Association or American Family Radio.