Dr. E. Cal Beisner returns to “The Corner” to invite you to Heaven and Earth: The Struggle for Faith and Science in the Public Square.

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:23Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28and now the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:33Good evening everyone.
12. 0:35What a week.
13. 0:36What a time to be alive.
14. 0:39If you haven't recognized it yet,
15. 0:40we are living in pivotal, pivotal times,
16. 0:46civilizational shaping times.
17. 0:53I truly believe that there is a major
18. 0:55rebalancing happening in our world.
19. 0:59I think that some of the chaos now will be seen a bit more clearly as the dust settles.
20. 1:11I would urge a combination of calm and clinging to God's word and the calm, actually I should
21. 1:18do it in the opposite order, cling to God's word which will produce a calm.
22. 1:27I'm saying that because when Jesus calmed the storm, or should I say not even when he
23. 1:31in the cornerstone, but when the storm was raging,
24. 1:33Jesus is able to be asleep in the boat
25. 1:36because the reality of being the God-man
26. 1:39produces a supernatural quotient of peace.
27. 1:47And as a result of being his people,
28. 1:48he is the Prince of Peace and he indwells us.
29. 1:51And he says his peace will be with us always.
30. 1:56Thank you for tuning in to the program.
31. 1:58You listen into the Hamilton Corner
32. 2:00or watching the Hamilton Corner.
33. 2:01name is Abraham Hamilton the third I am the host of this program joined by the
34. 2:06always dapper mr. J. Mac ladies and gentlemen he didn't have his hood on today
35. 2:10but uh he's always dapper you know you might find us on the road quite a bit
36. 2:17with that an intensification of the travel season is right up right around
37. 2:21the corner will be doing a lot of broadcasting remotely on site on location
38. 2:27as we're traveling and ministering in different events so if you're there
39. 2:31Here's another perk to coming to the events you get to meet J. Mac in person.
40. 2:36I probably shouldn't have said that Jeff, you may.
41. 2:39You'll have a line now brother.
42. 2:42A line of a particular sort I might have had.
43. 2:48At this very moment many of you have not most of you are making your transition from your part
44. 2:52time jobs to your full time jobs.
45. 2:55And as you're doing so I want to remind you to do so with intentionality, understanding
46. 2:59the primacy that God has placed on the family and welcoming that primacy to govern, to guard,
47. 3:07and to guide your engagement.
48. 3:11We will never, as a society, outpace the deficiencies that are bound in the home.
49. 3:16We won't outvote it.
50. 3:17We won't out-pollinate it.
51. 3:19We won't save America, act our way out of it.
52. 3:21We must be salt and light, and it must start in the home.
53. 3:26It must start in the home.
54. 3:29And as we batten down the hatches at home, we work outward from there into our communities,
55. 3:35into our cities, into our churches.
56. 3:39And as we welcome the Lord to transform us inside of our homes, there's no question as
57. 3:43to what will and can transpire in our societies.
58. 3:47But we must, we must, we must embrace our King's commission.
59. 3:51We must understand that the family is God's primary mission stations.
60. 3:55The first institution that he established is the one that he's given
61. 3:59ultimate responsibility and accountability with the father as the head of the family for the
62. 4:04pidea and nuthizia of the children that God entrusted to our care. We have to take that seriously because
63. 4:13the failure to do so is in many ways, I believe that's what we were experiencing. And I'll often say
64. 4:21that we talk about some of the deficiencies that are present in young people, but I like to remind
65. 4:25folks that young people all come from somewhere. They didn't just pop up, you know, they didn't
66. 4:32just spring forth, X knee hello. They've come from somewhere and we will either affirmatively invest
67. 4:39in what God has called us to or will have a byproduct that's the result of seeding our
68. 4:45responsibility and authority to someone else. The scripture teaches Jesus that specifically
69. 4:50himself, the student when fully trained will be like his teacher.
70. 4:55That should cause us to soberly reflect on who we allow to do the teaching.
71. 5:01Alright?
72. 5:04And the reality is that discipleship is a constant.
73. 5:06It is going to take place.
74. 5:07The question is who's going to do it and what is the qualitative form of that discipleship
75. 5:16because disciples are being made in America, they simply are being made in an anti-Christ
76. 5:21ideology, but we can reverse that trend if we will reverse that trend. And the only way forward
77. 5:30is through discipleship. To the word of God we go, would you say, Jeff, what kind of
78. 5:34sort of people will be lining up to see you on the road? What'd you say? Oh, you didn't say that? Oh,
79. 5:40okay. Inquiring minds want to know. Romans chapter one is what we're going to go, ladies and gentlemen.
80. 5:47Romans one versus 18 through, let's see, 23. We're also looking at verse 25, not skipping over
81. 5:54I'm over, I'm over, read 24, but 25 is something I want to highlight as well.
82. 6:01This is an epistle written by the Apostle Paul to the saints of God in Rome.
83. 6:06Verse 18 reads,
84. 6:06Thusly, for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness
85. 6:13of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident
86. 6:22within them.
87. 6:23For God made it evident to them.
88. 6:26For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature
89. 6:33have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made so that they are
90. 6:38without excuse.
91. 6:41For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they
92. 6:47became futile in their speculations and their foolish heart was darkened.
93. 6:54to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image
94. 7:01in the form of corruptible man and of birds and forefooted animals and crawling creatures.
95. 7:15When we read Romans 1, oftentimes, and I think this is because of Hellywood and media, social
96. 7:21media and other things, there are certain aspects of Romans 1 that are highlighted which
97. 7:26rightly to be highlighted to things like the sexual deviancy, abusing one's bodies or one another,
98. 7:35doing, working that which is unseemly the Bible says. Homosexuality, lesbianism, idolatry, all of
99. 7:44those things are right to be pointed out. But I think we fail sometimes to recognize what the
100. 7:51The Lord is trying to help us to see as the most egregious indictment in Romans 1.
101. 7:58I often refer to Romans 1 as God's case against mankind.
102. 8:03All right.
103. 8:05God's indictment, the most egregious portion of this indictment against mankind, the most
104. 8:18egregious portion of this indictment is actually verse 21.
105. 8:25And it reads, for even though they knew God, even though they knew God, they did not honor
106. 8:34Him nor were they thankful.
107. 8:42The reason why I'm saying this is the most egregious component of this indictment is because
108. 8:48Paul explains that there is clarity in terms of insight, there is understanding, concerning
109. 8:58what and who is being refused, yet they persist in the rejection and the refusal nonetheless.
110. 9:07Although they knew God, they did not honor Him because the implied presumption is that when God
111. 9:18is revealed, when He is beheld, there is truly only one appropriate response. That is to honor Him.
112. 9:28that is to be thankful. When we behold him as he is to be seen, as he is to, as we
113. 9:38are to behold him, thankfulness, gratitude, and honor to him are the
114. 9:46inevitable, inevitable, reasonable responses. But when there is a volitional
115. 9:54rejection of him in that fashion, the remainder of the indictment are the by
116. 9:58product of that initial egregious phenomenon. Beholding him yet refusing him. Be holding
117. 10:06him yet refusing to honor him. Be holding him yet refusing to be grateful to him. He's
118. 10:14no surprise in our society. One of the most traded currencies is the currency of entitlement,
119. 10:23social currency of entitlement. Isn't it amazing that all kinds of chicaneary and wickedness
120. 10:30is foisted and thrust it forward with the engine that is,
121. 10:36well, I deserve that.
122. 10:39And so then the indictment proceeds
123. 10:41because man Khan refused to honor God
124. 10:44and refused to be thankful.
125. 10:46The most immediate byproduct
126. 10:48is that they became futile in their reasoning capacity.
127. 10:51The intellectual capacity deteriorated.
128. 10:58When we look around, you know,
129. 11:00this is embarrassing to say,
130. 11:02but some of you might have saw the video circulating
131. 11:04social media when you had kind of a man on the street kind of interview and the issue
132. 11:10was presented forward that President Trump is leading a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz
133. 11:17and there was a young lady responding, well why is he always concerned about the straits
134. 11:20of Hormuz?
135. 11:21What about the gaze of Hormuz?
136. 11:26It would be one thing if that was a unique phenomenon.
137. 11:34But many of you, as I have experienced, that we are living in an age where it's not only
138. 11:40a prevalent, I'll say it this way, reasoning futility, but it seems to be ubiquitous.
139. 11:50It's so widespread.
140. 11:53I want to submit to you that this is not merely an intellectual phenomenon.
141. 12:00I would submit to you that it's a spiritual phenomenon, that the refusal to honor God
142. 12:07God as God and a refusal to be thankful to Him as God has resulted in widespread futility
143. 12:14in our reasoning capacities.
144. 12:16Then that is compounded by foolish hearts that are darkened, compounded even further by the
145. 12:22same people that are reeling from this futility in the reasoning capacity and reeling from the
146. 12:29darkened heart that is compounded from the endemic darkness that is inherited in the
147. 12:33sin nature, yet these same folks profess to be wise.
148. 12:39Will mock faith?
149. 12:41Will have statements like, what do you believe that?
150. 12:46I'll never forget Joel Rogan's expression.
151. 12:48When he was describing Charlie Kirk,
152. 12:50give me to tell me that a man as smart as he is
153. 12:53is a Christian, like he believes Jesus resurrected?
154. 13:02Yeah, but our society has people that profess to be wise
155. 13:05who reject the objective truth of the resurrection.
156. 13:10And then the additional compounded reality
157. 13:13in the exchange, the glory of the incorruptible God
158. 13:18for an image in the form of corruptible man.
159. 13:20And I highlight that because we often think about,
160. 13:22you know, earth worshiping, you know.
161. 13:25I'll never forget I was in Washington with my friend,
162. 13:28Jay St. John and Heidi St. John, Heidi St. John,
163. 13:31Jay St. John, and there are portions of Washington state
164. 13:35where you have people, sometimes people who are impoverished,
165. 13:37but they own land and they have timber on their own land.
166. 13:39but the state government will not allow them
167. 13:41to harvest a timber on their own land
168. 13:44because they're trying to preserve a habitat
169. 13:46for a particular owl.
170. 13:47I forgot the specific owl.
171. 13:49I'm saying, so y'all would rather have people
172. 13:50to be dependent upon government welfare
173. 13:54than to be able to use their own natural resources.
174. 14:00It's absurd, but before you got to the worship
175. 14:03of the creatures, the scripture says
176. 14:07that the exchange of glory of the incorruptible God
177. 14:09for an image in the form of corruptible man.
178. 14:11The creature worship follows man worship.
179. 14:18In the verse 25 tells us,
180. 14:19for the exchange the truth of God for a lie
181. 14:24and worshiped and served the creature
182. 14:27rather than the creator who was blessed forever.
183. 14:30Amen.
184. 14:31Guys, we are witnessing what the Bible told us would occur.
185. 14:34We're witnessing that play out before our very eyes.
186. 14:40And the only way to press forward is to repent
187. 14:46is to turn metanoia. It has to transpire and the people of God must have the boldness and
188. 14:54the love of Christ and our hearts sufficient to compel us to tell this truth.
189. 15:18The roof of that is in our founding documents and in the U.S. Constitution itself.
190. 15:24Because our founders recognized for the first time in world history that our rights come from
191. 15:31God our Creator, not our government.
192. 15:33AFA Stream is a vital step that we are taking to fulfill our vision to be a leading organization
193. 15:40in Biblical worldview training for cultural transformation.
194. 15:44You'll find top-notch resources that address the issues of our day related to marriage,
195. 15:49family, the sanctity of life, and many others.
196. 15:53Start streaming today, stream.afa.net.
197. 15:55Live into the darkness.
198. 16:07This is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
199. 16:11Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III.
200. 16:13Here I'm delighted to have on the program with me now, a man who is a friend of the program,
201. 16:20who is a friend of mine, personally a man who I respect,
202. 16:24who has been able to share insights with me
203. 16:27that has aided me, frankly, in being able to rightly
204. 16:30divide the word of truth and to apply God's word to culture
205. 16:34in an even more appropriate fashion.
206. 16:39I'm speaking of none other than the Dr. E. Cow Biesner,
207. 16:42the founder and president and national spokesman
208. 16:44for the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation,
209. 16:48which is a network of Christian theologians,
210. 16:50natural scientists, economists, and other scholars
211. 16:53educating for biblical earth stewardship.
212. 16:57Economic development for the poor and the proclamation
213. 17:00and defense of the good news of salvation by God's grace,
214. 17:04by God's grace received through faith
215. 17:05in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.
216. 17:09He was an associate professor of history and theology
217. 17:11and social ethics at Noxtheological Seminary.
218. 17:14He was also in interdisciplinary studies,
219. 17:17and oh, I missed it.
220. 17:20Interdisciplinary Studies focusing on application of a biblical worldview theology and ethics to econ economics government and public policy at
221. 17:28Covenant theology sorry at Covenant College
222. 17:32He's an author of 15 books. He's contributed to
223. 17:36235 over 35 books. He's edited over 30 books published thousands of articles popular and scholarly has lectured at
224. 17:44at university, seminaries, conferences, and churches in North America, Europe, Africa,
225. 17:49and Asia.
226. 17:50Dr. Biesner, thank you for joining me again here on the Hamilton Corner.
227. 17:53Come on, Abe, that's way too much.
228. 17:56Too much time.
229. 17:57Well, thanks very much for all of that.
230. 18:00Well, it's all true.
231. 18:01I'm glad to be back with you.
232. 18:02Yes, it's all true.
233. 18:03And I wanted to make sure everybody understands why they need to pay attention when you speak.
234. 18:08So without further ado, I want to begin our conversation because
235. 18:14because you are hosting a profound conference
236. 18:19May 1st and 2nd in Memphis, Tennessee
237. 18:22at Union University in its main chapel.
238. 18:26It's titled The Heaven and Earth Conference,
239. 18:29The Struggle for Faith and Science in the Public Square.
240. 18:33Where you just share a little bit of what is your heart
241. 18:36behind this conference and why is this necessary to have now
242. 18:40and why should people come?
243. 18:43of different things that are going to be addressed in this conference, Abe. And I think the primary
244. 18:50thing that we want for people to take away from this is a confidence that what the scriptures
245. 18:57teach us about science, about the earth itself, about creation, about family, about government,
246. 19:08about our community life, all of these things.
247. 19:12This is all true, and if we live by the Scriptures,
248. 19:19we will promote a larger society, even for unbelievers.
249. 19:25That is one that thrives much better.
250. 19:29We're going to be addressing some of the basic myths
251. 19:32of our age.
252. 19:34For instance, the myth of catastrophic manmade,
253. 19:37global warming and the notion that we need to substitute wind and solar energy for the
254. 19:43abundant, affordable, reliable energy that we get from fossil fuels, let alone the tremendous
255. 19:49benefit that we have from nuclear energy. We'll be looking at the evangelistic value of creation's
256. 19:54stewardship in a scientific age and at the apologetic value of beauty in science and a
257. 20:02a variety of other things that we can get into as we progress in today's program.
258. 20:09But we're excited about this and people can register at cornwallalliance.org slash conference.
259. 20:17That's cornwallalliance.org slash conference.
260. 20:23We'll have a link to that in our show notes for today's program as well.
261. 20:27Great, thank you.
262. 20:28Yeah, and I told you this is a conference.
263. 20:30everybody should attend because you're speaking to the issues from a biblically clear and sound
264. 20:38perspective. And I would say equally, well not equally, but I would say in addition to that,
265. 20:44you're speaking to issues that are prevalent right now. People need to understand how we
266. 20:49navigate these issues right now. So when you talk about confronting the lie of catastrophic
267. 20:57of climate alarmism, would you just expound on that
268. 21:00a little bit more, and obviously I don't want you
269. 21:02to give away the entirety of the conference,
270. 21:04but this is something people may not be aware
271. 21:07that they need to be able to have a cogent response to
272. 21:10because ready or not, it's all around us.
273. 21:13The vernacular is all around us,
274. 21:14the reasoning is all around us,
275. 21:15and we need to be able to give a reasonable answer
276. 21:18as to why we can cling to God's word
277. 21:19and respond to this as an issue.
278. 21:21Yeah, and as I say, that will be just one piece
279. 21:24of this conference.
280. 21:25By the way, the conferences may 1 and 2 Friday and Saturday may 1 and 2 here in Memphis.
281. 21:30Yeah, the climate catastrophism has become an excuse for all kinds of increases in government
282. 21:36control over people's lives, as well as for forcing the switch from abundant, affordable,
283. 21:43reliable energy from fossil fuels to not abundant, definitely not reliable, and very unaffordable
284. 21:52energy from wind and solar.
285. 21:55all sorts of reasons why that is the case, but it's hurting people. And, you know, from
286. 22:01my perspective as an American, we live in a very wealthy country, you know, the poorest
287. 22:07of us will be badly hurt by this kind of thing. But frankly, we're less vulnerable than people
288. 22:14in the developing world, people in places like Sub-Saharan Africa and many parts of Asia and
289. 22:20Latin America. For them, this makes the difference between rising and staying out of poverty and staying
290. 22:27in it or even falling farther back into it. And so that's one reason why we're addressing this so much.
291. 22:35This is actually a part of an ongoing effort of the Marxist socialist movement toward global
292. 22:43control over people's lives, which is why another of our talks will be addressing the
293. 22:51the issue. Marx is back in green. So now, you know, we'll have Patricia Engler, who is with
294. 22:59the answers in Genesis ministry. She's author of the book, Modern Marxism, a guide for Christians
295. 23:04in a woke world. She and Vijay Jayaraj, Vijay is an Indian Christian climate scientist,
296. 23:13works with the Cornwall Alliance as our research associate for developing countries.
297. 23:19Vijay is going to be speaking on freeing the two-thirds world from Western climate colonialism,
298. 23:25because that's really what's happening. We've got a bunch of frankly
299. 23:28really Marxists, whether hard Marxists or soft Marxists in Western countries, rich Western
300. 23:36countries, telling people in poor developing countries, you can't use the most abundant,
301. 23:44affordable, reliable energy sources to rise out of poverty.
302. 23:48You're just stuck.
303. 23:49Well, that's a colonialist attitude and totally oppressive, and we want to help people understand
304. 23:55how to free people around the world from that kind of stuff.
305. 23:59Mm.
306. 24:00You mentioned something just now, and I have actually two questions, but I do one at a
307. 24:05time.
308. 24:06You mentioned Marx is now, did you say dressed in green?
309. 24:13Back in green, yeah.
310. 24:14Back in green.
311. 24:15What do you mean by that?
312. 24:16I think I know what you mean.
313. 24:18I'm pretty sure I do.
314. 24:20Yeah.
315. 24:21But what do you mean by that?
316. 24:22Yeah, well, you know back in the 1960s it became very very clear that communism
317. 24:29could not compete with the free market with capitalism in
318. 24:34Lifting people out of poverty and keeping them out of poverty. It couldn't create wealth the way capitalism does
319. 24:41So what happened then was that in the late 60s and throughout the 1970s in the early 1980s an awful lot of
320. 24:48of adherents of communist ideology around the world,
321. 24:53thought, okay, we can't persuade people to embrace
322. 24:57our Marxism by telling them that we'll make them richer.
323. 25:02What we have to do is tell them,
324. 25:04well, okay, capitalism makes more wealth,
325. 25:07but in the process it destroys the planet.
326. 25:09And so you need to embrace communism.
327. 25:11You need to embrace Marxism, socialism,
328. 25:14in order to protect the natural world.
329. 25:17So they started the green parties around the world,
330. 25:21starting off in Europe,
331. 25:24but then expanding to North America, to New Zealand,
332. 25:27to Australia and other places.
333. 25:29These things are basically Marxism disguised
334. 25:32as environmentalism,
335. 25:34which is why so much of the environmental movement
336. 25:37is actually hostile to human thriving.
337. 25:41And by the way, hostile to the biblical worldview,
338. 25:44theology and ethics,
339. 25:45and in environmentalism, most of it's either materialist,
340. 25:49naturalist, denying the existence of God,
341. 25:52or pantheistic, that God is the universe.
342. 25:56So we need as Christians to be able to recognize
343. 25:59that the uniting of the environmentalist movement,
344. 26:03with the Marxist movement, and to see what's wrong
345. 26:06with both aspects of that.
346. 26:08And that's what we are really excited to be hearing Patricia
347. 26:14angler talk about for us.
348. 26:17You also mentioned about the contrast between the reliable
349. 26:21renewability, I'm sorry, the reliability, the enduring
350. 26:25nature of energy that's derived from what's commonly described
351. 26:27as fossil fuels contrasted with things like wind,
352. 26:30solar, and things of that nature.
353. 26:32Because I know you, I know you are queued in in listening
354. 26:36when those wonderful folks at the world, economic forum,
355. 26:38all of a sudden announced, hey, by the way, we have these
356. 26:42data center things that we need to power AI.
357. 26:44So how about we are now going to embrace the necessity
358. 26:49for utilization of fossil fuels and things of that nature?
359. 26:51First, did you notice that?
360. 26:53And second, why do you think that pivot has taken place?
361. 26:57Oh yeah, surely.
362. 26:58And, excuse me, what they're recognizing is that the strain
363. 27:04on the world's energy systems from AI data centers
364. 27:08is enormous.
365. 27:10that's going to probably within a decade, triple,
366. 27:14all by itself, triple,
367. 27:16the total amount of electricity demanded
368. 27:19just in the United States, for example.
369. 27:22So they're realizing, hey, wind and solar
370. 27:24won't cut it for all of this.
371. 27:26Nevertheless, they still see their long-term goal
372. 27:31as transitioning from fossil fuels to wind and solar.
373. 27:36That's gonna be disastrous.
374. 27:38But I think they saw the handwriting on the wall when the Trump administration reversed
375. 27:43the 2009 carbon dioxide endangerment founding finding, which was the basis of all U.S. regulation
376. 27:51of CO2 emissions around our economy.
377. 27:54They saw the handwriting on the wall and realized, okay, we've got to at least look like we are
378. 27:59going along with this.
379. 28:01And I think frankly they're waiting for a change in administration to try to get everything
380. 28:07back the way it was, which is a good point to realize, you know, executive orders are
381. 28:13wonderful and changes in regulation by agencies can be wonderful. But unless we see Congress
382. 28:22adopting real legislation to further these things, they can all be overturned within, you
383. 28:30know, a few weeks of a new administration coming in.
384. 28:34And this is a lesson we should have should have learned first and foremost in civics.
385. 28:38But secondarily, we saw it most most immediately with the contrast with the policies concerning
386. 28:43our own southern border as it pertains to illegal immigration, how the Trump policies
387. 28:48of the first term were with a blink of an eye and a snap of the finger immediately rescinded
388. 28:53when the Biden administration took office thereafter.
389. 28:56And then how it switched back so quickly, once again, so quickly, executive orders are
390. 29:01not a means for enduring governance. And that's something that you know we talk about consistently
391. 29:07here on this on this program. Now I also wanted to mention and you alluded to this earlier there's
392. 29:12a presentation that's going to be made at the Heaven and Earth conference. Again it's going to be
393. 29:15May 1st and 2nd in Memphis, Tennessee at Union University's main chapel was formerly Mid-America
394. 29:22Mid-America, Baparstheological Seminary, but it's Union University. May 1st and 2nd you can get all
395. 29:28of the information at the cornwallalliance.org, the website cornwallalliance.org.
396. 29:34It's heaven and earth, the struggle for faith in science and the public square.
397. 29:37There's going to be a presentation concerning the evangelistic value of creation's stewardship
398. 29:43in an age of science. That title alone intrigues me. Would you just share a bit about that?
399. 29:51How can we understand that there is a value towards evangelistic offering as a result of a
400. 29:58proper understanding of creation stewardship in this scientific age?
401. 30:02Yeah, well, you know, clear back in 1967, a medieval historian, not a biologist, not a scientist of
402. 30:12any sort, a medieval historian by the name of Lynn White Jr. published an article in Science
403. 30:18Magazine called the historical roots of our ecological crisis. And in that he blamed Judaism and Christianity
404. 30:27based on Genesis 1, 28, where God tells us to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and
405. 30:32subdue it. He said Judaism and Christianity are to blame for all the environmental devastation in
406. 30:38the world. Now that was crazy anyway in terms of the meaning of that verse in the Bible. It doesn't
407. 30:44mean that at all. But also it was crazy in terms of basic history. You can look all over the world
408. 30:49and the places that have been best stewarded in terms of nature are the places that have been most
409. 30:56influenced by Judaism and Christianity. The worst have been the places influenced by Hinduism,
410. 31:02Buddhism, Islam, Taoism, and especially communism, which is another religion, by the way, not just
411. 31:08a political idea. So in looking at this, what we can do is address the many people who are concerned
412. 31:19about environmental degradation. And there is plenty in the world around us, although I'll tell you a
413. 31:24little secret here, over long haul, the environment is actually getting better and better. That's
414. 31:32a different subject. But if we can help people to understand that it's actually the Christian faith,
415. 31:39the Christian worldview, the Christian understanding of God's call for us to be good stewards of his
416. 31:45world, that is what gives the promise of better environmental quality, of reversing environmental
417. 31:55degradation where it is.
418. 31:56So there are people who have rejected Christianity because they think it's an enemy to the environment,
419. 32:03we can answer that by showing how it is in fact a friend to the environment.
420. 32:09That means that creation stewardship has an evangelistic value.
421. 32:15I would put it this way.
422. 32:16When we really understand Genesis 128,
423. 32:19what it calls for is for us to enhance the fruitfulness
424. 32:26and the beauty and the safety of the earth
425. 32:28to the glory of God and the benefit of our neighbors,
426. 32:31which means we're addressing the two great commandments,
427. 32:33to love God and to love neighbor.
428. 32:35When I put it that way,
429. 32:37the critics of Christianity suddenly go,
430. 32:39oh, wait a minute, is that what it's really all about?
431. 32:42That sounds good to me.
432. 32:44Amen. It sounds good to me too. You're listening to the Hamilton Corner.
433. 32:48My guest is Dr. Cal Beisner, founder, president, and spokesperson.
434. 32:52Spokesmen with a Cornwall Alliance stay with us as we round out this program.
435. 32:57When dad passed away in 07, he left an inheritance and they had saved and saved through the years.
436. 33:09I was just wondering what I could do with that money, invested, or whatever.
437. 33:14I knew that I would like to help the Lord somehow in his work, and then I kept hearing
438. 33:20about the charitable gift in Newity, and I thought, well, that really sounds good.
439. 33:25And I knew that AFR would just be the best because they're in my home all day, all day
440. 33:32long.
441. 33:33And I kind of wanted to partner with the Lord through AFR and AFA and give back.
442. 33:39And I just felt like I knew that's what I wanted to do.
443. 33:43Like I say, it's just so easy.
444. 33:47I would just highly recommend the foundation.
445. 33:51Hamilton Corner Podcast and One-Bitted Common Terrets are available at EFR.net.
446. 34:10Back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
447. 34:14Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III.
448. 34:17Here, my guest is Dr. Cal Biesner, founder, president, and national spokesman for the Cornwall
449. 34:23Alliance.
450. 34:24There's a conference coming May 1st and 2nd titled Heaven and Earth the struggle for faith and science in the public square
451. 34:31I didn't even mention one of your speakers is going to be Meg Basham
452. 34:34Megan Basham the author of Shepherds for sale and actually in her book Shepherds for sale
453. 34:40She gives you a shout out directly the Cornwall Alliance, but you by name in
454. 34:46Her book
455. 34:47She says if you don't mind I'll read a little bit of the quote that she did she said quote the quote
456. 34:52The coast is almost embarrassing,
457. 34:53eh?
458. 34:54Well, you know, just just blush.
459. 34:56And you can blush in silence.
460. 34:57And I'll take it from here for about 10, 15 seconds.
461. 34:59The Cornwall Alliance is what Megan Basham wrote.
462. 35:01The Cornwall Alliance is well known, well respected,
463. 35:04and virtually the only evangelical game in town
464. 35:07when it comes to offering a counter view
465. 35:08to climate change alarmism.
466. 35:10Like Moses facing down Pharaoh's magicians
467. 35:13or Narnia's puddle glums stomping his marsh wiggle foot
468. 35:16on the witch's fire.
469. 35:17The truth referring to Cornwall Alliance president,
470. 35:20Calbyzner spoke, the truth by us spoke dumped the massive bucket of ice water on the spell
471. 35:26that all Christians sloganeering that all that all Christian East slow, sloganeering was casting.
472. 35:32Biesner destroyed the arguments raised against the knowledge of God by clinging to the word,
473. 35:37no matter who might accuse him of being foolish. People woke up. Biesner's courage gave them courage.
474. 35:43Biesner's wisdom gave them wisdom. That's a quote from Megan Bassman's book about the Dr.
475. 35:50Cal Byzner. Well, and we are tremendously grateful for Megan's coverage of our work,
476. 35:56and we're grateful to be able to have her come and speak for us. You know, there was a time when
477. 36:01because of her cancer, it was really questionable whether she'd be able to make it. Looks like
478. 36:06everything's going to be just fine, and we are very excited to have her speak for us.
479. 36:12March May 1 and 2 here in Memphis. Praise God. Praise God. Now, before we came on the program,
480. 36:18I mentioned a long time no see because you and I were both together in Fort Lauderdale
481. 36:22About maybe three or four weeks ago now and while we were there you had an opportunity to present to the attendees a
482. 36:30Project that you're working on titled the whole council project. You're also planning to have a presentation
483. 36:36Concerning the whole council at the conference may first and second
484. 36:41But for our audience here, what is the whole council project? Well, you know
485. 36:48America is just increasingly deeply divided over cultural and political and moral subjects,
486. 36:56and many of the issues about which there once was broad consensus, marriage and family, religion,
487. 37:01and its role in the public square. Sexuality, economic order, the reach and legitimacy of government,
488. 37:08policing, immigration, human life and dignity, all of these things. These once were areas of
489. 37:14of pretty constant consensus among us, but now they've become major culture war flashpoints
490. 37:21over the past five, even ten decades, with accelerating disintegration of that consensus.
491. 37:31But A, Christians who pray for God's kingdom to come and his will to be done on earth
492. 37:37as it is in heaven.
493. 37:39Christians who are committed to making disciples of all nations by teaching them to obey all
494. 37:44that he is commanded. Christians who believe that God breathed scripture can train men,
495. 37:51women, and children in righteousness so that they are equipped for every good work. Such
496. 37:58people should recognize the need for the Church of Jesus Christ to speak knowledgeably, clearly,
497. 38:05and confidently to such issues in a way genuinely shaped by Biblical worldview, theology, and
498. 38:12but very few Christians, even pastors, are well equipped to do that.
499. 38:18And so what whole council is designed to do is to equip pastors especially,
500. 38:26because they're the ones who see their flocks every week, week in and week out,
501. 38:31but also other Christian educators and parents, to equip them to teach and to preach
502. 38:39What we're framing as the whole counsel of God from the whole word of God to the whole people of God for the whole of life.
503. 38:50Not just a narrow, let's get them into heaven, sort of a gospel, which that's the primary gospel and it's absolutely important.
504. 38:59It needs to remain central.
505. 39:01But also the Gospel of the Kingdom.
506. 39:04In the New Testament, the word Gospel is more frequently used related to the Kingdom of God
507. 39:09than to individual salvation. We need to be teaching and preaching the whole Council of
508. 39:15God, the Gospel of the Kingdom to our people. And so our aim is to help facilitate the equipping
509. 39:23of pastors, teachers, parents, and others in the Christian community to do this, to teach
510. 39:30the whole counsel of God from the whole word of God to the whole people of God for the whole of life.
511. 39:37As you've rightly diagnosed this in the deficiencies in terms of the whole counsel of God being
512. 39:42proclaimed, there has over time there have been concerted efforts to produce a kind of truncated
513. 39:50understanding of the gospel. What are the sorts of things that you have discerned that have kind
514. 39:58kind of an effective broadside against the full counsel of God's word being proclaimed
515. 40:02and being comprehended and being applied, what are some of the things that have occurred
516. 40:06that have kind of truncated the full counsel of God's word being proclaimed to his people?
517. 40:13Well, one of them is I think a very understandable objection, especially that will come from pastors.
518. 40:20That is, hey, I'm not an expert on economics.
519. 40:24I'm not an expert on international relations.
520. 40:26I'm not an expert on law enforcement, et cetera, right?
521. 40:31That's understandable.
522. 40:33But imagine for a minute that a pastor devotes, say, three hours a week, just three hours a
523. 40:39week to studying one particular topic, say economics, right?
524. 40:45Fifty weeks out of the year, so he takes two weeks off, right?
525. 40:48And he does that for three years, pardon me.
526. 40:52That means he's got 150 hours of study.
527. 40:56roughly three times the hours required, the credit hours required, for a normal master
528. 41:02degree. Now that doesn't mean he is an absolute expert, but it does mean that he can speak
529. 41:09credibly to that and to how the Bible itself addresses that. We could multiply that times
530. 41:16many different topics. And you know, suppose you've got a town where there are 200 pastors.
531. 41:22If five pastors took on one subject and five pastors another subject and five
532. 41:30pastors another subject, in three years you'd have pastors there prepared to
533. 41:36speak credibly to 40 different topics that all of them used to think, well I
534. 41:41can't speak to that, that would be wonderful. So we want to try to promote
535. 41:45the collaboration, the cooperation among pastors and other educators to
536. 41:52You make people not necessarily experts, but credible in addressing such things.
537. 42:00That makes me think two things immediately.
538. 42:02First, it makes me think of 1 Corinthians 12 when the Lord through the apostle Paul explains
539. 42:06that the body of Christ is comprised of multiple members, but one body.
540. 42:12We can avail ourselves in the hypothetical you presented.
541. 42:15For example, there's a pastor who may not be conversant in the discipline of economics,
542. 42:20investing in studying that particular way, we can avail ourselves of another portion of the
543. 42:25body of Christ who is equipped in the economic sphere and glean from them in order to build our
544. 42:31competency. And as you mentioned, not necessarily to be for expert level comprehension, but to become
545. 42:39competent sufficiently, to be credible within the discipline. And the second thing immediately
546. 42:44makes me think about Second Peter chapter one, you know, when Peter warns the body of Christ that if
547. 42:48If these qualities are yours and they are increasing,
548. 42:51they're abounding, they will fortify you against being useless
549. 42:54and unfruitful in your knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
550. 42:57And one of the things he highlighted was knowledge.
551. 42:59Knowledge is one of those things that will fortify.
552. 43:02Y'all often said the second strategy is too strong
553. 43:04to keep as many people as possible from receiving the gospel
554. 43:07and being regenerated, being born again as a result of it.
555. 43:10And the second problem is to cost a Christian
556. 43:12to be barren and unproductive in our knowledge
557. 43:14of the Lord Jesus Christ.
558. 43:15So that our faith doesn't impact anybody else.
559. 43:18And so what you seem to be presenting is that the whole
560. 43:20council project is promulgated to help us in that aspect of
561. 43:24developing competencies to be increasingly effective in the
562. 43:29kingdom assertion that you're describing that was proclaimed
563. 43:32in a new testament.
564. 43:32Is that accurate?
565. 43:34Yeah, it is.
566. 43:35And what we want to do is we want to identify the resources
567. 43:39that are already out there that do this well and help more and
568. 43:42more people become aware of those.
569. 43:44We also want to identify the topics where there are not
570. 43:47already good resources, and then identify the people who have the capacity to address those
571. 43:53well and to provide for them the encouragement and perhaps even the financial support that
572. 43:59they need to dedicate some of their lives to going ahead and writing that book on a Christian
573. 44:05understanding of immigration or going ahead and writing that book on a Christian understanding
574. 44:10of energy policy.
575. 44:14This is the kind of thing that we want to do.
576. 44:16And we believe this is important because as the great Dutch theologian Abraham Kuiper
577. 44:22put it, there is not one square inch of all reality over which Christ does not say,
578. 44:31mine.
579. 44:32Amen.
580. 44:33We as his servants need to be prepared to take every thought captive to the obedience
581. 44:40of Christ.
582. 44:42the job of whole council. Oh man, this excites me. This excites me. So what shape will this
583. 44:52take as you continue to build it as God is leading you to do so? Some of our listeners
584. 44:58and viewers right now may be familiar with Francis Shafer's Lebere, for example, during
585. 45:03his time period. What shape do you envision this taking place? What shape do you envision
586. 45:08this taking in terms of your development of the whole council project?
587. 45:13Well, as I said, at this point, it's pretty much in the visionary stage.
588. 45:17Yeah.
589. 45:18We haven't really mapped out a lot of the practical steps.
590. 45:21But what we foresee is, for one thing, developing a whole series of short books as in 30 pages,
591. 45:32something like that, right?
592. 45:33So few people have the time to read big fat books anymore.
593. 45:36But if we can develop a series of short books like 25 30 pages a piece
594. 45:42addressing all of these different topics that are so
595. 45:47full of controversy in our world right now from a biblical worldview perspective and with real knowledge of the
596. 45:56you know the
597. 45:59Research that's been done on them already around us if we can if we can produce that or if we can find things
598. 46:06already existing and then use frankly one of the things we're looking forward to is a series
599. 46:14of pastors seminars and teachers seminars in various metro areas where you can bring together
600. 46:2340, 100, 200 pastors and expose them all to this good information, to this usable information,
601. 46:32This step by step, here's how you do this kind of information, not just kind of inspiration,
602. 46:38and then you go away and say, well, but what can I do? This is the kind of thing that we have in mind
603. 46:45down the road. We have to see how the Lord blesses this. It's in very much the initial thought stages.
604. 46:54If the Lord blesses it, it'll be wonderful. If he doesn't, we don't want to keep working on it.
605. 46:59we want only to do what he blesses.
606. 47:01Amen.
607. 47:02This is, and I alluded to Francis Shaver's
608. 47:05Lebri.
609. 47:06Some people, as I mentioned, may be
610. 47:08familiar with that.
611. 47:11How would this be similar or contrast from
612. 47:15Francis Shaver's efforts that have been,
613. 47:17you know, it's impacted me, so I know it's
614. 47:20had enduring impact.
615. 47:21Well, you know, Lebri was one particular
616. 47:25place to which people could go.
617. 47:26Now, of course, there are a number of
618. 47:28of the breeze in various places around the world, but not a lot.
619. 47:32And none of them is really big.
620. 47:34They don't have a lot of people every time.
621. 47:36What we're looking forward to is being
622. 47:39able to have people collaborating, working together, who live
623. 47:44far from each other.
624. 47:46And they don't necessarily have to all be gathered into one place.
625. 47:50But to be able to take the message and to bring those scholars who
626. 47:54working in this to this city at this time and that city at that time and so on, that I think
627. 48:02will allow us to reach out very widely. There are also some earlier sort of models for this
628. 48:08kind of thing. The International Council on Biblical Inerrancy developed its Chicago Statement on
629. 48:14Biblical Inerrancy and its Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermonautics. The Coalition on Revival
630. 48:19developed its essentials of the Christian worldview and then 17 different documents addressing how
631. 48:26you apply that worldview to various different spheres of life. We have those models. We have
632. 48:32the Ratsuo-Christi, the ministry that works on university and college campuses all over America,
633. 48:41presenting basic Christian understanding of a wide variety of different issues in an apologetic way.
634. 48:47Right.
635. 48:48So there are those models and we can incorporate bits and pieces of the different models.
636. 48:55I love it.
637. 48:57The whole Council of God, from the whole Word of God to the whole people of God for the
638. 49:04whole of life.
639. 49:06This is Matthew 28 all day long and twice on Sunday.
640. 49:10For me.
641. 49:12Dr. Meissner, thank you so much guys.
642. 49:14You need to stay up with all that the Cornwall Alliance is doing.
643. 49:18They are my go-to for all things, biblical earth stewardship, climate, energy.
644. 49:24They are my primary resource.
645. 49:25I encourage you to go to their website, www.HorneWallAliance.org.
646. 49:29If you can't be in Waco at the Intrusted Homeschool Conference on May 2nd, then you need to be
647. 49:33in Memphis at Dr. Bisoner's Heaven and Earth Conference to struggle for faith in science
648. 49:38in the public square.
649. 49:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those
650. 49:44of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.