Dr. Renton Rathbun has returned to “The Corner.”

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force. Simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
2. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
3. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
4. 0:15Delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
5. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
6. 0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
7. 0:24Even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.
8. 0:28And now the Hamilton Corner.
9. 0:33Good evening everyone.
10. 0:34Welcome to the Hamilton Corner here on American Family Radio.
11. 0:37I am your host Abraham Hamilton III, broadcasting again live from beautiful downtown Greenville,
12. 0:44South Carolina as we have been enjoying these last few days, the BJAU Press Foundations Summit.
13. 0:50It has been an amazing time here.
14. 0:54As you know, at this very moment, many of you are making your transition from your part-time
15. 0:58jobs where you generate your income to your full-time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
16. 1:03And as you do so, I want to remind you to do so with intentionality, understanding the
17. 1:07primacy that God places on, family, recognizing that what goes on in your house is far more
18. 1:14important than what goes on in the White House, far more important than a buffoonery on display
19. 1:20during the State of the Union address, far more important not because those things are unimportant,
20. 1:26because 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is unimportant, but it's simply because you and I are directly
21. 1:32accountable and responsible for what we have immediate access to and the jurisdiction that
22. 1:37God has given us. Far too often, we allow things that transpire on the global level, international,
23. 1:47level national media headlines and things of that nature to intrude upon our province and
24. 1:51to cause us to be either disconnected,
25. 1:54neglected, or alternatively,
26. 1:58inordinately obsessed with national media.
27. 2:01And then what happens?
28. 2:03Our kids are having conversations with chatbots.
29. 2:05We don't even know what's going on.
30. 2:07With their newest iOS update.
31. 2:10That is exceedingly, exceedingly problematic.
32. 2:13And so I offer this recalibration daily,
33. 2:17simply for that purpose, to get us thinking differently.
34. 2:20Yes, we're all people.
35. 2:21We have obligations.
36. 2:22We have families that we need to provide for but what we do to generate revenue is not our full-time gig
37. 2:27It's what we do out of necessity that enables us to engage with its full-time and for every single believer
38. 2:33We have to understand this every single believer is called to ministry every single believer is called to
39. 2:40Execute our Lord's Commission and so as you are making your transition
40. 2:43I want to remind you to do it with intentionality of the human institutions God established
41. 2:47Civil government, God established it.
42. 2:50The New Testament Church, God established it.
43. 2:52But the first of his institutions was the family with marriage at the center.
44. 2:56And just because a politician discusses God's ideas,
45. 3:01that discussion does not inherently reclassify God's ideas to political conversation.
46. 3:06And so we need to remember that and be mindful of that.
47. 3:09So as you're making your transition, let's be about the Father's business today.
48. 3:14You guys know how often we talk about the necessity of discipling our children as parents who are invested in their children's lives
49. 3:22Grandparents the scripture has room for you. You have a role to play in that as well as you're making your transition
50. 3:29Let us do so with intentionality if you have been
51. 3:32Laboring faithfully and God's harvest field field praise God. Let us not become weary in
52. 3:38Well-doing if you're listening to me and some of you have sent me messages because I know you let you you think about this
53. 3:44It's a man, Abe, I understand what you're saying,
54. 3:46but I'm gonna do it tomorrow.
55. 3:47Let today be the day.
56. 3:48As you make your way home, let today be the day
57. 3:52where you plant your feet solid on the ground,
58. 3:54ten toes down and say today will be the day
59. 3:57where we transform our dinner table or our living room
60. 4:00or wherever it is, whatever space you have access to,
61. 4:03to an altar to worship the King of glory.
62. 4:05What you do in your homes.
63. 4:08And I've shared my prayer and my own family, Lord,
64. 4:11May my life be a runway for my children to come to know you
65. 4:15and then to follow you as opposed to being an obstacle course
66. 4:18where my children have to overcome my life,
67. 4:20witness an example in order to meet the Lord.
68. 4:23And I pray that you would adopt that,
69. 4:24take it, use it, however you wanna use it.
70. 4:26But that is what we need.
71. 4:27And if God, if we would welcome the Lord to get a hold of us
72. 4:31in our families first, in our families first,
73. 4:35there's no question as to what would and could transpire
74. 4:39in our communities.
75. 4:40Now having said that, if you're new to the program,
76. 4:42we start every show by turning to God's word first,
77. 4:45because it's vitally important that we refuse to shelve
78. 4:49the Lord's word and then attempt to do life.
79. 4:52But that we understand that the Lord's word
80. 4:54is truly a lamp unto our feet and a light into our past.
81. 4:57And the only way we will be able to engage
82. 5:00appropriately and successfully in the life
83. 5:02that God has given us is if we do so,
84. 5:04as the Lord empowers us by his grace,
85. 5:07being anchored in the truth of his word
86. 5:09as he has articulated it and revealed himself to us
87. 5:11through his holy word.
88. 5:13So today we're gonna do something a little differently
89. 5:15where I've invited my friend and the guest
90. 5:18who will be on the show with me
91. 5:19for the duration of the program.
92. 5:21This is really for my own benefit by the way
93. 5:22because this is what I need.
94. 5:24It's none other than Dr. Renton Rathbin,
95. 5:27who, man, who, where do I start?
96. 5:30Scholar, theologian, now pastor,
97. 5:33we'll get to that later in the program,
98. 5:35but I've invited him on with me
99. 5:38to talk through a bit, walk through a little bit of Paul's
100. 5:42Epistle to Timothy 1 Timothy chapter 3 verses 14 and 15.
101. 5:46And if you're new to the program, as I said earlier,
102. 5:49we never want to be the types of people who have Bibles.
103. 5:54We must be the type of people who use Bibles.
104. 5:58And as we use the Bibles, we use the Bibles to read them.
105. 6:03But in reading the Bibles, we welcome the Lord
106. 6:05to read us by His Spirit.
107. 6:07And so as we do that, it puts us in a position where we then have our minds fit appropriately,
108. 6:13our hearts anchored appropriately to be able to be salt and light and be effective ambassadors
109. 6:18of the Lord's eternal kingdom.
110. 6:20And we do life from heaven down.
111. 6:21The eternal reality is what informs our temporal engagement.
112. 6:25So today I want to turn our attention to 1 Timothy chapter 3, verses 14 through 15.
113. 6:31Timothy chapter 3 verses 14 through 15 and the apostle Paul writes this in
114. 6:37addressing Timothy. He says, I'm writing these things to you, hoping to come to you
115. 6:43before long, but in case I am delayed I write so that you will know how one ought
116. 6:48to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living
117. 6:53God, the pillar and support of the truth or some translations will say the pillar
118. 6:59and ground of the truth. This is a portion of scripture that we've delved into on the program
119. 7:05before, but I wanted to invite you, Dr. Rathbund, past the Dr. Rathbund, how many more superlatives
120. 7:10can offer to share a bit of what the Lord's people should understand that God is revealing
121. 7:18to us of himself and concerning his church in these few verses.
122. 7:24You know, our congregation, we're going through the book of Ephesians right now.
123. 7:30And the whole focus of Ephesians is that the Father has a vision for his Son, and that is for the Son to have a body.
124. 7:41And we are the Church, we are His body.
125. 7:46And so when it talks about here in 1 Timothy, when Paul is instructing another pastor,
126. 7:53you know, how are we to understand the body of Christ, we see that part of that work is
127. 8:02being grounded and being the ground of truth, not just for each other but in the world.
128. 8:11you know, we see so much power everywhere. We see power in politics. We see power in the university,
129. 8:19you know, and the power of professors. And we see power in talking heads and podcasts and fame.
130. 8:29And that's where we see power. And the very last place we really think there's power
131. 8:34is Christ's body, the church.
132. 8:39And that's exactly where,
133. 8:41and this is how the Father is glorified.
134. 8:44It's in the body that this power is focused
135. 8:49on that which grounds truth through the power
136. 8:52of the Holy Spirit because of the work of the Son
137. 8:55all because the Father,
138. 8:56and this is what's so interesting about Ephesians,
139. 8:59because the Father loved us.
140. 9:01And in that love, he said, I want you to be the body of my son.
141. 9:07And in that, we see great responsibility that's placed on the church, which starts with this
142. 9:14whole idea of truth.
143. 9:16And it bears down on the pastor, it bears down on other teachers in the church, and it bears
144. 9:23down on our congregation, that they're not there just to observe and sit around.
145. 9:27they're there to be part of the work of grounding truth
146. 9:31in their community and society at large.
147. 9:37Oh man, it's so profound and so true.
148. 9:41It's one of the things that I reflect on
149. 9:44and I endeavor to communicate accurately about,
150. 9:48which is that the church's role is to be that
151. 9:52within the body of Christ,
152. 9:53but also to serve in that function in the world,
153. 9:57and God and his divine providence could do whatever he wants to do,
154. 10:01however he wants to do it, whenever he wanted to do it.
155. 10:05But he's divinely designed his church to play an outsized role and what transpires.
156. 10:14And I'm thinking about if he's a step to the reverse thing right now,
157. 10:17the Lord literally says that through his church, his manifold wisdom would be made
158. 10:21known, you know, he has it within himself.
159. 10:24but the public demonstrability and accessibility to that wisdom,
160. 10:29God is designed for that to come through his bride.
161. 10:32Yet what we see more often in our own experiences,
162. 10:38and there are always exceptions,
163. 10:39I don't want to be over-broad in my speech.
164. 10:41But largely in our country,
165. 10:43what we see is the professing church attempting to catch whatever wave the world is distributing.
166. 10:50You know, it's almost like the social equivalent of crowdsourcing.
167. 10:56We want to, we want to crowdsource what is popular and then interpolated into a church
168. 11:04context and put a standpoint and say, sound and let's see.
169. 11:07Now this is the sanitized version of these things and what ends up happening, salt loses
170. 11:13its savor.
171. 11:14Yeah.
172. 11:15And what you see even in Ephesians chapter four is this warning of I don't want you to,
173. 11:21to think like the Gentiles think,
174. 11:24because you're gonna be cast back and forth
175. 11:26at every wind of doctrine like a child would.
176. 11:29I mean, think about how insulting that might sound
177. 11:32to a church that's well-seasoned,
178. 11:34and I mean, even in Ephesians he talks about how,
179. 11:37at the beginning, how it's clear you guys love each other,
180. 11:40it's clear you've been grounded in the truth
181. 11:42and all that's great, but don't act like a child,
182. 11:45that you're gonna be tossed back and forth
183. 11:47by some new thing that some shiny idea that someone has
184. 11:52that you want to put into your church
185. 11:53so you can be more effective.
186. 11:55Your effectiveness of being a pillar of the truth
187. 12:00is gonna be through something you can't see.
188. 12:02It's gonna be through the work of the Holy Spirit.
189. 12:05And this is, and of course,
190. 12:07no one wants to talk about that.
191. 12:10No one wants to talk about the Holy Spirit.
192. 12:11I do.
193. 12:13All right.
194. 12:14I do.
195. 12:15I mean, you think about it, it's like,
196. 12:18when you see the beginning of Ephesians,
197. 12:20it says, I want you to see the hope of your calling.
198. 12:23I want you to see that the Father has this inheritance
199. 12:28and that inheritance is gonna be the body of Christ.
200. 12:31It's you, and I want you to see the power.
201. 12:35And that's the third thing you want some to see,
202. 12:36is the power.
203. 12:37And when you get to a first Timothy,
204. 12:40and you're start talking about this pillar of truth
205. 12:44that is the ground of truth for the world,
206. 12:48you see, well, how are we gonna do that?
207. 12:50I mean, we're just a church.
208. 12:52And I have, my church is small.
209. 12:54And so small churches always think,
210. 12:56well, that's probably gonna be one of the bigger churches.
211. 12:59The guy that he wrote a book,
212. 13:01and they have a better building,
213. 13:04and they have all these programs.
214. 13:05Our tiny little church won't make a difference.
215. 13:08But your tiny little church has the power
216. 13:11of the Holy Spirit.
217. 13:13that is able to do exceedingly and abundantly
218. 13:18far beyond what you ever thought could ever happen.
219. 13:21Because you have all the tools,
220. 13:25but you also have all the power.
221. 13:28And when you don't see that,
222. 13:29you start looking for power somewhere else,
223. 13:32and it's always disastrous.
224. 13:36Man, with that provokes in my mind,
225. 13:41is that concept is almost like an ecclesiastical Napoleon complex, you know.
226. 13:46But that would provoke really what is a deficiency in worship because the only way that those who profess to be redeemed by the potent grace of God
227. 14:00that they can see that as being limited is if you begin to diminish your perception of God's capacity
228. 14:06in view of, in contrast to what you see as alternative sources of potency.
229. 14:12Which kind of reveals a little bit of idolatry.
230. 14:18That there's power there, there, there, there, there, there.
231. 14:22But what we can't do anything, so maybe they'll do it.
232. 14:27And what leads to, and the music is disrespectful, I know you can hear it.
233. 14:31Darkness is not an affirmative force, but it does reoccupy the space vacated by the light.
234. 14:37And what's largely happening in our country is that the Christ follower has retreated on various fronts.
235. 14:45So the ubiquitous advertising campaign of darkness has run amok.
236. 14:49Yeah, that's right.
237. 14:50We'll be right back after this break.
238. 14:59A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
239. 15:02Life is not a beach, nor is it a park. Life is a battlefield.
240. 15:06Our goal is to be believers that are well equipped on the battlefields of life to go out and build the Kingdom of God
241. 15:13and tear down the kingdom of darkness.
242. 15:15Remember our goal is not just to hold ground.
243. 15:18Our goal is to build the kingdom of God
244. 15:21and tear down the kingdom of darkness.
245. 15:23Every day we can be instruments through which the spirit
246. 15:26of God can use to reach out to the world.
247. 15:28How do we build the kingdom of God?
248. 15:30By simply living a life where we're hearing God's word
249. 15:33and obeying it every single day.
250. 15:35Every day is a day for us to be bright,
251. 15:36shining witnesses for Christ everywhere we go.
252. 15:39Yes, we're wise to be believers that carry gospel tracks
253. 15:43wherever we go and give them out as the Holy Spirit would direct us to.
254. 15:46Yes, we're wise to be believers that daily are ready to share our testimony in any context.
255. 15:52The Holy Spirit literally gives us tasks and missions daily.
256. 15:57Shiting light into the darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
257. 16:09Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III here.
258. 16:13My guest is Dr. Renton Rathbin.
259. 16:16I'm glad to have you on the program with me, sir.
260. 16:19I have to mention and I've been announcing this now March 27th through to 29th.
261. 16:24I will be with the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church family in Fort Lauderdale, Florida at
262. 16:30their Kingdom Come conference.
263. 16:33You can go to their website to get all of the information.
264. 16:36I'm looking forward to that.
265. 16:37Oz Guinness will be ministering there.
266. 16:40Rosaria Butterfield will be ministering there.
267. 16:42David bombson will be there.
268. 16:44Bill Federer will be there.
269. 16:46Host of other people these are people that just remember who will be there
270. 16:50I think Eric Metaxas will be speaking there as well. I was going to be an amazing time looking forward to that
271. 16:55I don't know why they invited me
272. 16:58But they did yeah, so so we'll be there
273. 17:02In Fort Lauderdale if you're in the area willing to come to the area
274. 17:06I'd love to meet you to shake shake your hand hug some next
275. 17:09The the conference is the Kingdom come conference
276. 17:12subtitled the Christian Citizen. And so I'm looking forward to that. Like I said, if
277. 17:19you're in the area willing to come to the area, it'll be a great time to meet
278. 17:22Huxham next and have some in-person communication, which is one of my favorite
279. 17:26things to do. Because you get a little bit of down payment on what we're going to get
280. 17:29to enjoy an eternity forever with the body of Christ. So that is coming up. Now
281. 17:34back to my guest Dr. Rathbend. And I said this at the beginning of the first
282. 17:39segment, your journey through academia and being a college
283. 17:46professor and then biblical worldview training and then
284. 17:51developing resources for homeschool families. I know you and
285. 17:56your wife, April, you missed you, you homeschool your lovely
286. 18:01children. And to now the latest stage in your trajectory is to
287. 18:07take on the role of a pastor.
288. 18:09How did you come to make that decision?
289. 18:13Oh boy.
290. 18:14Yeah, so I was a professor for a long time.
291. 18:22I taught philosophy and things like that, logic.
292. 18:25And I almost became, I almost got a PhD in philosophy
293. 18:31because I had applied to University in Nebraska
294. 18:36and they had accepted me, and I was all excited about going.
295. 18:39And this was gonna be the trajectory of my life,
296. 18:43but then the Lord got ahold of me and changed everything.
297. 18:47I stopped playing the part of a Christian,
298. 18:50and I came to know Christ, and that knowledge of him
299. 18:55was very different than just knowing about him.
300. 18:58And so it changed everything.
301. 18:59So my wife said, we can't go to Nebraska.
302. 19:02It's, first of all, I mean, it's Nebraska.
303. 19:05I was no offense Nebraska listeners.
304. 19:08I was born in Omaha, so I know how it goes.
305. 19:12But she said, you're gonna be frustrated.
306. 19:15You're gonna be frustrated the whole time
307. 19:16because you're gonna want to talk about the Lord
308. 19:19and you know they're not gonna let you.
309. 19:21And so I ended up pursuing a THM at Puritan,
310. 19:27and then we ended up at Westminster with my PhD.
311. 19:30And during that time, the Lord really got a hold of my heart
312. 19:33thinking about how the Lord is going to use me.
313. 19:37And so as we were working at a Westminster,
314. 19:43I started to think about the ministry.
315. 19:47And we had elders that also believed
316. 19:49that there was a calling there.
317. 19:51And so we just kind of put that in our back pocket.
318. 19:53Let's finish this terrible PhD that ruins people's lives.
319. 19:59Get that done.
320. 19:59And then we'll see what the Lord has.
321. 20:01And we did.
322. 20:02We got it done, we did all that, and the Lord, you know, I was still a professor, I was still
323. 20:07doing stuff like that.
324. 20:10And I went under care that's the Presbyterian's way of, you know, making sure you're called
325. 20:16and that they can control the whole thing.
326. 20:18And because, you know, we like control.
327. 20:22And so, and so we, you know, I started to go through that process and the Lord just didn't
328. 20:29open any doors.
329. 20:30I could have pushed it.
330. 20:32I could have just like, no, I'm gonna do this
331. 20:34and I'm gonna quit my job and just trust the Lord.
332. 20:37Maybe I should have, I just don't have that kind of faith.
333. 20:39So with the Lord opened the doors other places.
334. 20:43And so I just thought, okay, let's just pursue
335. 20:46what's up with the Lord opened up.
336. 20:48And so eventually I was an elder at a church
337. 20:55for a long time.
338. 20:56And for whatever reason, I can't remember what it was,
339. 21:00I just started praying to the Lord,
340. 21:02would you open a door?
341. 21:05Somewhere right here, let us just start working for you.
342. 21:11Not that I wasn't in the ministry,
343. 21:13I mean, we're all in the ministry,
344. 21:14but I just really, that burden came back.
345. 21:17And I just started praying,
346. 21:18and it was one of the few times in my life
347. 21:20where I pray with faith.
348. 21:24I know that sounds terrible, but I just, you know.
349. 21:26It does sound terrible.
350. 21:28The Lord is very patient with me.
351. 21:30And I'm really good at praying prayers
352. 21:33that I'm pretty sure already are taken care of.
353. 21:35It's really hard for me to pray for something
354. 21:38that just says I have no basis for it.
355. 21:41And I just, there was nothing available.
356. 21:44I mean, it was insane.
357. 21:45It's hard enough to find a pastor at these days,
358. 21:48you know, a million miles away, let alone just saying,
359. 21:50Lord, can you open up something here
360. 21:52that I might be able to start working full time for you?
361. 21:57So it's an insane thing to ask.
362. 22:00But I just started asking the Lord.
363. 22:03And another thing that I'm not good at is I was consistent
364. 22:08with it.
365. 22:08Every day I was starting to pray this prayer.
366. 22:11And I just thought, you know, maybe we'll see what the Lord does.
367. 22:15And literally, and this is, okay, listeners,
368. 22:18I know you're thinking, you know, of course,
369. 22:21out of nowhere someone comes up to you
370. 22:23and it was the Lord's will.
371. 22:25And I hate hearing those stories
372. 22:27because that never happens to me.
373. 22:29I've heard those stories of these people that are like,
374. 22:31well, we prayed to the Lord and we opened up the mailbox
375. 22:35and there was a check for $1,000.
376. 22:38I'm like, okay, good for you buddy, that doesn't happen to me.
377. 22:44So I do get kind of tired of those kind of testimonies,
378. 22:47but I will say this, just praying over this thing
379. 22:51and out of the blue, someone came up to me and said,
380. 22:54look, we're from Blue Ridge Presbyterian Church
381. 22:58And we would like for you to consider maybe having a ministry here and maybe being our
382. 23:05pastor.
383. 23:06Now, this is a big deal because I wasn't ordained and so it's going to be a big hairy
384. 23:12deal to do that.
385. 23:13And so, you know, in the Presbyterian world, if you want to be ordained, man, you got to
386. 23:17go through a thousand tests and a thousand oral tests, a thousand written tests and then
387. 23:23you got to be checked.
388. 23:24got to be humiliated in public a few times.
389. 23:26And then, and then, you are finally qualified
390. 23:30to take further tests that you will have to pass
391. 23:34and then be humiliated a little more
392. 23:36and then you get to be ordained.
393. 23:38And so, what they were asking is we are willing,
394. 23:44if you consider this, we're willing to go through
395. 23:46all that stuff for you.
396. 23:49And so that was very humbling.
397. 23:51And so I thought, well, I need, you know,
398. 23:54so I went to my wife and of course she's like,
399. 23:57well, I've been telling you you need to be a pastor
400. 23:58your whole marriage.
401. 24:00So of course you should pursue this.
402. 24:02Oh, wow.
403. 24:03And so we pursued it and they had other candidates
404. 24:08and that were probably more skilled
405. 24:10and better looking than me.
406. 24:12But in the end, the Lord called me there and they called me.
407. 24:17And it was 100% call.
408. 24:22Everyone, it's not a huge church,
409. 24:24but it's big enough that a no would be pretty visible.
410. 24:27Yeah.
411. 24:28But yeah, everybody, it was 100% yes call,
412. 24:32and so I answered that call.
413. 24:34And we're still going through all the process
414. 24:36of the denomination, all that stuff.
415. 24:37But we are, but I've been there since September
416. 24:42preaching there, and it has,
417. 24:46It has just from September to now has changed everything about my life and about how I think
418. 24:53about life and even how your life is on display as a pastor.
419. 25:02I mean you know this.
420. 25:04You go from being pretty anonymous to everyone's watching and we've had the congregation over
421. 25:11our house twice now, the whole congregation.
422. 25:14And you're like, oh man, we have a TV.
423. 25:17Is that going to be a problem?
424. 25:18Is it going to be a work?
425. 25:19And you wonder about every little thing.
426. 25:21We have a TV and we have the internet.
427. 25:25Should I not have the internet?
428. 25:27Should I live like an Amish person?
429. 25:28What should I do?
430. 25:29You're just really paranoid about all that stuff
431. 25:32because you're out there.
432. 25:34And yes, and you should be on display
433. 25:36because there is incredible, incredible weight on you,
434. 25:42that you can't mess this up.
435. 25:46There's a lot of jobs you can kind of mess up and be okay.
436. 25:49This isn't one of those,
437. 25:50and because the Lord has a special judgment for those
438. 25:53that fail at this.
439. 25:56And so that has been on my mind a lot
440. 26:00since we started now.
441. 26:03Man, wow. So you mentioned that you were already involved in ministry and it's true.
442. 26:11We're all in ministry. Not everybody though has the opportunities that you've had even
443. 26:16prior to entering the pastorate, you know, with teaching at the collegiate level and
444. 26:23traveling the country, if not the world, speaking in different places, being a very,
445. 26:27won't say this, but I will quite, first of all, excellent. I mean, excellent speaker,
446. 26:35excellent, and being in demand for that, some would say you already had a full plate in terms
447. 26:42of ministry. So why would you want or seek something in addition to that? And then two,
448. 26:53Do you see as being viable through the local church that may not have been viable in those
449. 27:00other avenues that you're already functioning in?
450. 27:03So you're right.
451. 27:05I have been very blessed to be able to go out and speak and not have to really sell anything
452. 27:12or talk about something that I just don't really believe in.
453. 27:17I've gotten to talk about the Lord and of biblical worldview and what that means.
454. 27:24And I mean, I could have been quite comfortable doing that because the weight of a congregation
455. 27:35and their souls are not tied to you.
456. 27:39And so what you're asking, and this is something a lot of people don't think about, because
457. 27:47My brother died last year and the Lord brought cancer upon him to kind of bring him back to
458. 27:58himself.
459. 27:59But when my brother was away from the Lord, he had a congregation and he failed and he
460. 28:09knows he did and he believed that the Lord was merciful to even bring him back to himself.
461. 28:17before he died.
462. 28:19And I think about that a lot.
463. 28:22I think about how the repentance of my brother's heart
464. 28:28with such sadness on how he saw himself
465. 28:32treating the body of Christ.
466. 28:35And so that I think about that every time
467. 28:38because it's not just a side gig.
468. 28:42It's not just, oh, I'll try this for a while
469. 28:45and see how that goes.
470. 28:46The souls of people that are in the image of God
471. 28:51that have been bought by the blood of Christ
472. 28:54are now depending on you.
473. 28:57They're depending on you,
474. 28:59both as a leader, to help them know what to do
475. 29:04and help them know how to navigate even the conflicts
476. 29:08that they have within themselves,
477. 29:09but they're also relying on you
478. 29:12to say what the Lord has for them to hear.
479. 29:15Because we're not just giving a little devotional.
480. 29:19Preaching is not a devotional in a formal sense.
481. 29:24Preaching is actually a way of speaking God.
482. 29:29God's voice, what God has to say to these people through you.
483. 29:34And so there is a higher level.
484. 29:38It's why we're all, there's so much debate on what the leadership should be.
485. 29:45This is why first Timothy that you read from today, first Timothy is so important because it gives the structure of how
486. 29:53leadership should be, how the church should be,
487. 29:56because if we don't get that right, there's something, this isn't just a Bible study.
488. 30:01This is the body of Christ in its formal governmental self and
489. 30:08and how we will be judged how we deal with that.
490. 30:13We will be judged how seriously we took God's word.
491. 30:16We'll be judged how we treated Christ's body,
492. 30:20the body of Christ.
493. 30:21And so when you think about that, you're right.
494. 30:25It's a good question.
495. 30:28Why would you go into something that has that kind of weight?
496. 30:32And I think that's what the call is.
497. 30:34The call is a desire to do something
498. 30:36that actually if you really thought about it,
499. 30:39you would probably not do it.
500. 30:40If you really believed what scripture says about,
501. 30:43there's extra judgment on the pastor,
502. 30:47if he treats Christ's body poorly,
503. 30:51that the weight of these souls are on your shoulders.
504. 30:56Not too many people would actually do it
505. 30:58if they really believed that.
506. 30:59And so there is a real calling to say yes to that.
507. 31:05Man, I'm thinking so many different things.
508. 31:07I've shared this on the show before.
509. 31:14The way that the Lord kind of drew me a long time ago, my church in New Orleans where I grew
510. 31:21up, my pastor discerned that the Lord was calling me to some form of ministry.
511. 31:29So I did kind of a ministry internship and my assignment was to the sick and the shut
512. 31:35in. You know and so through that process the Lord has just given me a great affinity for
513. 31:41what I call a season saints. You know people who have been who've lived lives and the latter
514. 31:48years remain faithful to the Lord. I just have a special place in my heart for them but in
515. 31:55contrast recently we've seen scores of ministers fall publicly. In light of that and we're
516. 32:07We're about to hit to the break, but I'll set my question up for you now and just welcome
517. 32:12you to answer it on the other side of the break.
518. 32:14When you think about that and you're aware of those things happening, is there anything
519. 32:19in particular about that that kind of resonated with you to a degree and impacted your decision
520. 32:25in any way, however, to respond to God's call to enter the pastor?
521. 32:30That's the question I have.
522. 32:34I asked the question, but the music is still disrespectful.
523. 32:37You listen into the Hamilton Corner, my guest is Dr. Renton Rathbin.
524. 32:41We're talking about really at this jump to the gravity of the call to be a Shepherd and
525. 32:45God's flock.
526. 32:46We'll continue this conversation and unfortunately it's the last segment when we get back from
527. 32:51this break.
528. 32:52We'll stay with us.
529. 32:53If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic humanistic society.
530. 33:06Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildman and how he went head to head with
531. 33:11Hollywood, Playboy, the homosexual agenda, and the Disney Empire.
532. 33:17The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and
533. 33:21righteousness in a hostile culture.
534. 33:25Watch Culture Warrior today for free.
535. 33:27Visit CultureWarrior.movie.
536. 33:30Over the last ten years, young people have been deconstructing their faith, or more accurately,
537. 33:35decrystionizing.
538. 33:36The first great awakening was a supernatural move of God that happened in the American colonies
539. 33:41just before the American Revolution.
540. 33:43How we need another great awakening today.
541. 33:46Please help spread the sparks of revival by supporting AFA with a gift, and we'll send
542. 33:51you a free copy of the DVD Desperate for More, The First Great Awakening.
543. 33:56Go to AFA.net slash revival today.
544. 34:00Untethered Empathy This is David Wheaton, host of The Christian World
545. 34:04View.
546. 34:05While sympathy is a biblical virtue, there is a corrupted form of empathy today that
547. 34:10It ignores moral truth and negative consequences because the object of their empathy holds an
548. 34:16idolized status of being oppressed.
549. 34:19This explains why protesters interfere with ICE agents, detaining criminal illegal immigrants,
550. 34:24or why women support boys who identify as girls competing in girls' sports.
551. 34:29The Bible says that Christians should put on a heart of compassion and kindness, but God's
552. 34:34other truths of morality, justice, and obeying governing authorities should not be dismissed
553. 34:39in the process.
554. 34:40Here are most recent programs on Untethered Empathy with guest Joe Rigne at TheChristianWorldView.org
555. 34:47and then tune in this weekend as Alex Newman joins us to discuss the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.
556. 34:52Listen to The Christian World View with David Wheaton, Saturday mornings at 8th Central on
557. 34:57American Family Radio.
558. 35:04The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at AFR.net back
559. 35:10to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
560. 35:14Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third here with Dr. Renton Rathbend.
561. 35:20Pastor Renton Rathbend and I asked a question before the break and I'll just restate it for
562. 35:26the sake of those who may just be tuning in and I don't know why you're coming in so late.
563. 35:31The corner is always open but always.
564. 35:35I asked just to kind of summarize the question that we've just witnessed a spate of public
565. 35:43failings of shepherds in the Lord's flock.
566. 35:48And we've had several men who have been faithful,
567. 35:51who we've lost also, who've passed on into their eternal reward.
568. 35:58But my question was particularly about those who have fallen
569. 36:02recently in how that has impacted, if at all,
570. 36:05your perception of responding to God's call into the pastorate.
571. 36:11And if so, in what ways that may have impacted you.
572. 36:16Yeah, I just, you know, it's funny, I just read,
573. 36:19I think it was yesterday about a pastor
574. 36:21who had been caught with,
575. 36:27I think it was a five year molestation of a child.
576. 36:34He got off on bail for the court hearing
577. 36:39and then committed suicide.
578. 36:40And you just think about that.
579. 36:44I was asking my wife about it.
580. 36:45I said, what was going through his mind?
581. 36:49You know, was he a real believer that thought,
582. 36:53I just need to get out of here?
583. 36:55Or was he an unbeliever that never believed any of this
584. 36:59and used his position to molest kids
585. 37:03and then just wants out cause it's too humiliating
586. 37:06at this point.
587. 37:07You know, I, as I see all these failures happening and it's, it's almost sadly, it's almost a
588. 37:14daily occurrence.
589. 37:15If you look at the Christian post or any, any Christian outlet is, you know, that's willing
590. 37:21to talk about it, you know, has another person, another person.
591. 37:26And it affected me because that was happening back when I was praying over whether I should
592. 37:30be a pastor or not.
593. 37:34the two things I was thinking about is, number one, we have so much failure, we
594. 37:41have all these open gaps, you know, but we also have a problem with the world
595. 37:48blaspheming God now, you know, and I think that's why there's a bigger
596. 37:53punishment on pastors, because this is why David experienced the punishment he
597. 38:01experienced with, you know, when he murdered Bathsheba's husband and then took
598. 38:06Bathsheba on, she got pregnant and the Lord said, I'm going to take the life of
599. 38:12that child and David begged for his life. But you see, David caused God's enemies
600. 38:20to blaspheme and God would not relent his his wrath and so that child died. Now
601. 38:28Now there's always grace because right after that David comforts his wife and then she gets
602. 38:37pregnant with Solomon.
603. 38:41And when you know what's going to happen that Solomon's going to reign in peace and going
604. 38:45to be prosperous, there's a catharsis there.
605. 38:50But he does not relent when the enemies of God have blasphemed.
606. 38:56That has stuck in my soul as I answered the call to be a pastor that if I would ever cause the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme,
607. 39:07and the Lord's wrath would come down upon me, rightfully.
608. 39:12And I am sure I would beg him not to let that wrath come, just to let me go like David.
609. 39:19I would probably day and night beg and just lay in the dirt and beg.
610. 39:27But if I cause the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, his wrath would not recede.
611. 39:35And we see that promise that the teachers will be judged more viciously because of their position.
612. 39:46And that has made me think about why these guys are doing this.
613. 39:50you know, what happens.
614. 39:52And I don't know exactly why I don't know
615. 39:54what's going through their head.
616. 39:55I know that they surround themselves
617. 39:58with guys that are dependent on them.
618. 40:01And so especially these big churches,
619. 40:05you have these big churches
620. 40:07and the pastor obviously can't do everything
621. 40:09so he hires pastors to do a bunch of the work.
622. 40:13But those pastors were hired by that guy.
623. 40:15So they need to please that guy.
624. 40:17Because everyone knows if the head pastor
625. 40:19doesn't like, you know, Assistant Pastor so and so,
626. 40:22and Assistant Pastor so and so is gone.
627. 40:26And so, how are you to really be accountable to men
628. 40:32that are dependent on you for their employee?
629. 40:35How are you to really be dependent on other men,
630. 40:40even in your congregation, that you and the elders
631. 40:43might have to discipline one day?
632. 40:45Where are the friendships that are inherently needed in men
633. 40:50to have with other men, both for accountability,
634. 40:54but also to bear our hearts to each other
635. 40:57in ways that men bear their hearts to each other?
636. 41:03Because I know, I'm in trouble, I'm getting for this one,
637. 41:06but it's sweet when a guy who's married
638. 41:11guys, you know, who's married says, my best friend is my wife.
639. 41:15And I'm like, it's okay, it's weird, but it's cute.
640. 41:20But is that really your best friend?
641. 41:24Yes, she's she's your closest friend, I think.
642. 41:27And I, you know, as far as what that means, but there is,
643. 41:31there are roles, there's responsibility, there, there is
644. 41:34authority structures in all of that.
645. 41:38And there's, you know, there's sexual tension.
646. 41:41And, you know, so what does a best friend really look like
647. 41:45when it's free of sexual tension?
648. 41:48That's the whole point of why men have such good friendships.
649. 41:52Cause you know, you don't have to worry about
650. 41:54the sexual tension.
651. 41:55You have to worry about, you know,
652. 41:57and that's why a lot of us guys we think,
653. 42:00well, he's a really good friend,
654. 42:01but man, he's a lousy husband.
655. 42:02You know?
656. 42:04You know, and we see that happening all the time,
657. 42:08and what we need as men are men that we can rely on.
658. 42:12Men that we can say, this guy will tell me what I need to hear.
659. 42:17We need men that have read the book of Psalms
660. 42:20and read the book of Proverbs,
661. 42:22and have wisdom that they would give to us.
662. 42:25And sometimes that friendship might be a mentorship.
663. 42:29I mean, we just don't do Titus 2 churches anymore.
664. 42:33Titus 2 churches like what you were talking about before the show,
665. 42:36where the older are actually taking on the younger as mentees and saying,
666. 42:43look, this is what I've learned in my life.
667. 42:45You need to learn this before you make the mistakes I've made.
668. 42:49These are the things I've learned as being faithful to the Lord,
669. 42:53all the way up into my 70s.
670. 42:56Now it's your turn to listen to me.
671. 42:58How many Titus 2 churches do we have?
672. 43:02What we end up having are young men listening to other young men, just as dumb as they are.
673. 43:08Raya Bowen?
674. 43:09Yeah.
675. 43:10Yeah.
676. 43:11Right.
677. 43:12And you have guys need each other, but we also need mentors.
678. 43:19And what I see a guy that has fallen from ministry because he got caught up in a sin,
679. 43:27what I see as a guy that had a bunch of yes men surrounding him, he had no mentor.
680. 43:33He had no real men friends that he could say,
681. 43:36I can give you my heart and bear my heart to you
682. 43:42and we can confess our sins to each other
683. 43:44and hold each other accountable.
684. 43:46You don't see any of that in guys that have fallen
685. 43:48because a guy that has that kind of friendship
686. 43:52where he knows this guy's gonna call me on this
687. 43:55or this guy's my mentor and I wanna be just like him
688. 43:58and he would never do this.
689. 43:59Because it never starts off with, I went from being completely innocent to I have
690. 44:10bedded a woman that's not my wife. That doesn't happen. It starts off
691. 44:14with, well she sent me a DM. What are the message of whatever?
692. 44:21And so I got this message from this woman. It's very innocent.
693. 44:27You know, it's like, hey, I see you're a pastor now.
694. 44:30All that's so neat, you know, and maybe it's someone you used to date when you're in high school,
695. 44:34or someone that's just, you know, pretty or whatever.
696. 44:37And now you have a choice of either just ignoring that, deleting it, because it's just inappropriate.
697. 44:45Or you're really nice back, because you want to be a nice guy, right?
698. 44:52And being a nice guy is really what, you know, the Bible's all about.
699. 44:56And so you write back and say, yes, the Lord has blessed
700. 45:01and you say all these wonderful things.
701. 45:03And really what's going on in your heart
702. 45:06is that you're taking that first step
703. 45:09and that first step is sin.
704. 45:12And it doesn't look like sin, it doesn't smell like sin.
705. 45:14And if anyone called you on it,
706. 45:16you'd be like, it's just a message,
707. 45:18I gotta answer a message.
708. 45:22But what it is is if he had maybe friends in his life
709. 45:26says, you what, you answered that?
710. 45:28You need to confess that to your wife
711. 45:30and you need to delete that and be done with that.
712. 45:33But if you don't have that, if you have a bunch of yes men
713. 45:35and that's all you're used to is people just agreeing
714. 45:38and saying you're the best in the whole wide world,
715. 45:41yeah, you're gonna take the next step
716. 45:43and then the next step and then you will end up there
717. 45:47at a place where there's no going back.
718. 45:48And I think that is at the heart of most pastors,
719. 45:53pastors because most pastors find themselves utterly alone.
720. 46:00They have their family, so they cocoon themselves
721. 46:04with their family, but in the end,
722. 46:07they see other pastors as nice to do coffee with,
723. 46:11but really we're kind of in competition
724. 46:13because you're sucking people from my community
725. 46:17and I'm trying to suck people from your community
726. 46:19and we gotta make this work, but you're a good guy
727. 46:22and we'll have coffee, but will I bear my heart to you?
728. 46:26I mean, there's just not very many pastors
729. 46:28that have a David-Johnathan relationship with someone
730. 46:31that would be a balm to their soul.
731. 46:35They just are alone.
732. 46:37And sometimes it leaves a sin,
733. 46:38sometimes it just leads to burnout.
734. 46:40But something's gotta be done.
735. 46:43Yeah, I mean, how do we reverse that?
736. 46:45Because I'm thinking about an app I've talked about
737. 46:48on the show, because our culture likes to talk about,
738. 46:51and being visual and all these other kind of things,
739. 46:53but Proverbs is specific in pointing out,
740. 46:55be aware of the adulterous and her flattering words.
741. 46:59Like we, people talk about having covened eyes,
742. 47:02but there is a reality of having covened ears,
743. 47:05and with the scenario that you mentioned of the DM,
744. 47:09where you're not audibly hearing the words,
745. 47:11you're reading the words, but it's the flattering words,
746. 47:15that's the gateway, if you will,
747. 47:16to the problematic conduct that follows.
748. 47:19So how do we get out of this scenario?
749. 47:22And the whole concept of being in competition
750. 47:25just really grinds my gears because
751. 47:29what kind of thought is that for the body of Christ?
752. 47:31But how do we get out of this?
753. 47:33Because, you know, I weep, my wife can tell you,
754. 47:36it breaks me.
755. 47:37You know, I don't even have to know them personally,
756. 47:40but I'm a member of the Lord's body.
757. 47:43So when the unbeliever is given an occasion to blaspheme God
758. 47:48because of a public moral failure of whatever variety,
759. 47:53it impacts me because I'm a member of the Lord's bride as well.
760. 47:56Where God is in occasion has been given a blaspheme God,
761. 48:00and then my eternal family is being cast
762. 48:02in an inappropriate light.
763. 48:05It's something that bothers me.
764. 48:06So how do we get out of this notion
765. 48:09to where we kind of have these silos,
766. 48:11not silos, islands unto ourselves,
767. 48:14that create a context that makes it
768. 48:17an environment conducive to false.
769. 48:20Boy, you know, that's a big question.
770. 48:24But I think there is a pathway.
771. 48:28It involves some of us who are in denominations
772. 48:34that have high, high bars that must be passed
773. 48:39in order to be a part of that denomination
774. 48:42or a part of that denomination, that then makes you feel like you don't want to condescend other
775. 48:48denominations. They might be brothers in Christ, but you know, they're those people. You know
776. 48:56what I'm saying? And there is a pride that goes along with certain denominations. There's
777. 49:04a pride that says, you know, I don't feel like I need to go over and be a friend of this other
778. 49:12pastor. And then there's the issue of the fact that we're a little afraid to be transparent
779. 49:22to another person. Because a lot of times we do have sins that we are cultivating. And so
780. 49:34we don't want someone else involved in our lives that's going to root out the stuff that
781. 49:40we think is kind of okay to stay in our hearts.
782. 49:44So, you know, when you have that kind of relationship
783. 49:47with someone that's that transparent,
784. 49:48you know, you gotta be flush it all out.
785. 49:52Boy, that's hard, but man, do we need to do it.
786. 49:56We need each other.
787. 50:00Man, I often say that the Lord establishes church
788. 50:04to be a means of grace.
789. 50:07And there's a combination of having a low view,
790. 50:11the low estimation of God's word and also kind of a low ecclesiology, a low view of God's
791. 50:17body.
792. 50:18But in order to be the church that the Lord has established us to be, to be that pill and
793. 50:22the ground of truth, we have to rediscover what God has provided for us in His word concerning
794. 50:28what we are to be as His bride.
795. 50:31Thank you for joining me this evening.
796. 50:33Thanks for having me.
797. 50:39The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
798. 50:44Family Association or American Family Radio.