Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Founder of Reasons for Hope, Carl Kerby

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:31Well, good evening folks.
12. 0:34Alex McFarland here sitting in for attorney, pastor, broadcaster, A.
13. 0:38Hamilton III.
14. 0:39This is the American Family Radio Network.
15. 0:41And I'm very honored to have you listening tonight.
16. 0:44And we're going to talk about a number of topics.
17. 0:48But broadly speaking, I want to address really the spiritual skepticism that seems to be very,
18. 0:55very, you know, pandemic in our times.
19. 0:59And I want to get to the root of why so many younger people
20. 1:03are skeptical, not only skeptical of the Bible,
21. 1:07skeptical about the Lord Jesus,
22. 1:10but even skeptical about morality and that truth exists.
23. 1:14And let me lay a little foundation about this
24. 1:17because well, let me throw some names out here.
25. 1:19Do you know who Pyro and Carnia D's is,
26. 1:24and Cicero and Arcessalus, you say, who in the world are those people? Well, those were
27. 1:31ancient Greek skeptics more than 2,000 years ago. And would you believe that skepticism
28. 1:38and doubt questioning everything, it's really nothing new? And I want to give you a quote
29. 1:45here from 1600 years ago. Now, just hang with me and then I'm going to bring on a very special
30. 1:51expert voice on this subject, but Augustine.
31. 1:56One of my favorite people from church history, brilliant, I mean honestly, I believe one
32. 2:01of the most brilliant people that ever lived.
33. 2:03Augustine lived 354 to 430 AD, and even in his time, 1600 years ago, Christians were trying
34. 2:12to persuade people who didn't want to be persuaded.
35. 2:17Now there's some kind of lofty language here, but we'll go back and unpack it a bit.
36. 2:21Augustine talking about presenting the gospel and presenting the evidence for the Bible.
37. 2:28He said, and I quote, what then can we do to convince those who refuse to believe?
38. 2:37They either refuse to believe these facts unless we can show them or if we are in a position
39. 2:43to prove by ocular demonstration or by adequate testimony. And yet they say, not this, not this.
40. 2:54Now let me explain. Augustine, 1600 years ago, there are people that refuse to believe and
41. 3:01they demand what he called ocular demonstration. O C U L A R in other words, give me something
42. 3:07I can see or persuade me." And Augustine lamented. He said, and yet when we do show them, they
43. 3:15say, not this, not this. Now I've been at many a university campus. I've had students
44. 3:22ask me, they'll say, well, you know, where did the Bible come from? And I'll say, okay,
45. 3:27let me show you and explain where the manuscripts came from. Well, preacher, what about this?
46. 3:33you answer that question. And you know, I guess it's human nature rather than humble oneself before
47. 3:41God and admit that we're sinners and that God created us, God gave us the wonderful gift of life
48. 3:48and yet we need to bow before the Lord and say, Dear Lord, please forgive me of my sins.
49. 3:53And then we are to live morally and as disciples and citizens, we're to not be just doing whatever
50. 4:01we want to do, but you know, there are the laws of man, but even written on every human heart,
51. 4:07there's the law of God. It's just, I guess, that old stubborn, rebellious spirit where people push back
52. 4:15rather than admit God is the Lord of all. We want to be our own God. And there is a philosophy,
53. 4:23more recently than 2,000 years ago, there's a philosophy that I believe more than any other
54. 4:29thing in the last, well since the Reformation, the last 500 years, I think the most detrimental
55. 4:36philosophy that threatens not only America and the West, but frankly threatens the, threatens
56. 4:44the souls of many people. And we're going to talk about this philosophy that is contrary
57. 4:49to God and his word. And to help us weigh in on these and other topics, longtime friend
58. 4:55and colleague Carl Kirby. Carl is the founder of Reasons for Hope, an internationally known
59. 5:01ministry, and I'll let him tell you about that. But for a number of years Carl and I
60. 5:06have collaborated on summer youth camps called Equip Retreats. And we have hundreds of young
61. 5:13people to hear about Jesus, hear the evidence for the Bible, and so much more. But he's a
62. 5:19brother, a colleague, and a friend. It's Carl Kirby. Carl, welcome to the American Family
63. 5:24radio network
64. 5:27alexa toy the blessing be with you thank you for the consideration
65. 5:30well it's good to have you and uh... thanks for making time to be with us
66. 5:34have got to ask you carl
67. 5:36uh...
68. 5:36your
69. 5:37a christian
70. 5:38and you're a christian leader but were were you ever a skeptic
71. 5:43i'm still a skeptic
72. 5:46uh... and what do you mean by that
73. 5:48yeah i was going to say what i mean by that is i think
74. 5:51questioning is a good thing
75. 5:53matter of fact i came up with a saying you're not too long ago as i was working
76. 5:56with young people saying that if you can't question, it's not Christianity, that's a cult.
77. 6:02As a Christian, God tells us to come, let's read it, let us reason together.
78. 6:08We need to be reasoning together and this process of learning is going to involve questioning.
79. 6:13So I literally question the things that I believe on a regular basis when I get challenged
80. 6:18to make sure that what I'm believing isn't just some sort of, you know, I had some bad
81. 6:23pizza one day or something like that, that's the legitimate, that it will withstand the
82. 6:28rigors of scrutiny.
83. 6:30And so I am skeptical.
84. 6:32I still am.
85. 6:33I questioned everything.
86. 6:34I see something in the news.
87. 6:36I'm the guy that's going to go look at two or three different sources before I'm even going
88. 6:39to even give it a moment of light.
89. 6:43So I don't think that that's a bad thing.
90. 6:46There's good ways to question, then there's bad ways to question.
91. 6:49And if your question was an open honest genuine heart of wanting to grow and wanting to learn,
92. 6:54I think good things will come from that.
93. 6:55God will honor that process.
94. 6:57Absolutely.
95. 6:58You know, Carl, when I became a Christian in the late 1980s, and I was midway through
96. 7:04my undergrad degree at a state school in North Carolina, back then, as far as I was worried,
97. 7:11there really wasn't a lot in the realm of apologetics.
98. 7:16Amen.
99. 7:17Amen.
100. 7:18I remember being in biology class and science classes at the University of North Carolina
101. 7:24at Greensboro and it didn't take me long as a brand new believer, 21 years old, and I realized,
102. 7:31wait a minute, what I read in my Bible that God created and God made man in his image and
103. 7:40in the image of God we were created.
104. 7:43And that soundly conflicted with what I was being told in science class at the university
105. 7:51that we, you know, two cells came up out of the primordial soup and all plants, animals,
106. 7:58mammals, humans came out of a purposeless, undirected design.
107. 8:03And Carl, I instinctively, I trusted the Bible, but I had no apologetics or anything like
108. 8:10that.
109. 8:11uh...
110. 8:12you know let me ask your opinion in in the forty five years
111. 8:16since
112. 8:17you know that the nineteen eighties
113. 8:19how compelling
114. 8:22in your mind
115. 8:23is the evidence that's come out for
116. 8:25what you and i would call biblical creation
117. 8:29overwhelming is a supportive i mean you and i both know a good guy
118. 8:33by the name of dr gerry haber mass who
119. 8:36will just take the issue of the resurrection alone and write three books of
120. 8:39over eleven hundred pages each right
121. 8:42using evidence from not just Christian sources but sources that even non-Christians will accept.
122. 8:48The same to me is true.
123. 8:50We just had here recently within this last week, Yale professor that is throwing Darwinism through
124. 8:56the curb, is kicking it to the curb.
125. 8:58It doesn't make any sense.
126. 8:59People are saying this, but here's the problem.
127. 9:01If not an evidential issue, it's a spiritual issue.
128. 9:04And you are so much further along than me because Alex, I was in the same class as you.
129. 9:09We're pretty close to the same age.
130. 9:11I think I'm a little bit older than you, but the same thing was going on.
131. 9:15But I didn't, I was in church and I was hearing Bible stories, which I think is the biggest challenge
132. 9:22is that when you grow up learning the Bible as a storybook and not as historical actual
133. 9:28occurrences, it prepares you to be just overwhelmed by the world.
134. 9:34And that's what happened to me.
135. 9:35I was like, yeah, I'm in church and I'm a Christian, but this is science and this is
136. 9:39the church and you kind of separate the two and the world had more of a draw on me.
137. 9:44So you praise God were much better than I because you turned to God but I didn't.
138. 9:49I turned to man and I turned to flesh until I was 26 and then wow.
139. 9:54It was like this mind-blowing experience where all of a sudden the word of God, this is real,
140. 10:01this is trustworthy.
141. 10:02It's not just good spiritual and moral things as I had been taught.
142. 10:05And so to me, that's the real key is that we've laid a foundation that is distrusting of truth,
143. 10:13that is distrusting of an absolute authority, i.e. the Word of God, Jesus Christ himself.
144. 10:19And so, yeah, I think that it's overwhelming now.
145. 10:23More and more, every time we turn around, I've been putting this up on a regular basis.
146. 10:27Sorry, this is a long answer, Alex.
147. 10:29I've been putting this up on a regular basis.
148. 10:31We found this rock, changes everything we know.
149. 10:33It's going to change everything we've known.
150. 10:35so i keep putting this up
151. 10:37take a bit this way how strong is your position
152. 10:39that everything you've known to be true for a hundred fifty years is no longer
153. 10:42true because you found an inch long piece of rock
154. 10:45the changes everything
155. 10:46that's no longer true that this is true until you find another piece of rock
156. 10:50that says that this is not no
157. 10:52we have a rock the word of god the fact that she the cheap cornerstone
158. 10:56we don't have to change every time something new comes along
159. 10:59our position is solid and the the evidence is backing it up
160. 11:03Let me give you a quote.
161. 11:05I know you've probably heard this.
162. 11:06There was a man named Niles Eldridge.
163. 11:08He was a world-class expert on fossils,
164. 11:12but Niles Eldridge kind of summarized the failure
165. 11:17of the fossil record to support evolution.
166. 11:20He said, quote, no wonder paleontologists
167. 11:23shied away from evolution.
168. 11:25It never seems to happen.
169. 11:27And he said, assiduous collecting of samples.
170. 11:31In other words, the aggressive, the voluminous collecting of fossils yielded no definitive
171. 11:40transitional sources.
172. 11:42In other words, they said the fossils would speak, but honest paleontologists basically
173. 11:50said the fossils did not speak.
174. 11:53At least they did not speak in favor of Darwinian evolution, did they Carl?
175. 11:58Amen.
176. 11:59and I had a number of those quotes,
177. 12:01but what I do even, that I think is even more powerful,
178. 12:04Alex, is I take the secular charts.
179. 12:07I do a whole class, if somebody wanted to watch this,
180. 12:09if they download our app, just look for R-F-O-R-H,
181. 12:14R for H, on the App Store, look for the blue
182. 12:17asterisk black background, it's usually the second one
183. 12:19because there's somebody that pays to be ahead of me,
184. 12:21and I'm not gonna pay the market, download it,
185. 12:24and you'll see at the bottom speakers,
186. 12:25hit the speaker tab, you'll see my picture,
187. 12:27Carl Kirby, great for getting mice out of the pantry.
188. 12:30Hit that full link talk.
189. 12:31Go down and look at fossils.
190. 12:33I show the actual phylogenetic charts,
191. 12:36the family trees that supposedly depict how you came
192. 12:39from those cells that you talked about
193. 12:41and eventually turned into every life form on the planet.
194. 12:43And I point out over multiple charts, secular charts,
195. 12:48not Christian charts, look at what they have
196. 12:51and look at what they don't have.
197. 12:53And when you start teaching people how to look
198. 12:55those things, every one of them scream that the biblical account is true because what you
199. 13:00find is that one thing stayed one thing never changed from or into anything else and that's
200. 13:05exactly what we should find if God did what he said that he did the way that he said that
201. 13:09he did it when he said that he created kinds and genesis and that's what we find in the
202. 13:13fossil record are kinds, dog kind, cat kind, people kind.
203. 13:18You do not find as Niles Eldridge said one thing turning into another thing, there's a few
204. 13:23things that they'll try and throw at you, but when you go dig deeper on them, we have
205. 13:26nothing to be afraid of.
206. 13:29Carl, and we've got a break coming up, so I'm going to throw this out there and I'm
207. 13:32sure we'll have to come up on the other side of the little intermission that will elaborate
208. 13:37further. But is there a philosophy behind science? I mean, Carl, I think people probably,
209. 13:45the street level, they assume science is neutral, unbiased. But is there a philosophy
210. 13:54behind science and various scientists? Yeah, I mean, we've all got a worldview and we've all
211. 14:02got a bias and we've all got our presuppositions and that's the problem is that we think that
212. 14:07evidence in and of itself, as you said earlier, the fossils who speak for themselves, not true.
213. 14:12Evidence does not speak for itself. Evidence is always interpreted in light of a worldview.
214. 14:17So the person that's looking at the evidence, depending on what they believe about where they
215. 14:21come from and how we got here, will look at the exact same fossil, the exact same evidence,
216. 14:26and come to two totally different conclusions. It's not an evidence problem, it's a spiritual problem.
217. 14:32Paul that thought Carl, great, and not an evidence problem, a spiritual problem. Alex McFarlane
218. 14:38here along with our very special guest Carl Kirby.
219. 14:40Reasons for hope.
220. 14:42We collaborate annually on the equip youth camp,
221. 14:46so we'll tell you more about that.
222. 14:47Got a brief break?
223. 14:48More of the Hamilton Corner on AFR after this break.
224. 14:51Stay with us.
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236. 15:59Shiting light into the darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
237. 16:10We are back, Alex McFarland here along with Carl Kirby, talking about worldview and
238. 16:17really responding to skepticism. You know, in God's Word in 2 Peter chapter 1 verses
239. 16:2516 through 21, one of my absolute favorite passages of scripture. You know,
240. 16:30regarding the gospel it says, for we have not followed cleverly devised fables
241. 16:36when we made known under the power and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I
242. 16:41I would encourage you to read that.
243. 16:422 Peter 1, 16 through 21.
244. 16:45And it references really what we would call the historicity
245. 16:49of the gospel, that yes, a man named Jesus
246. 16:53really honestly did live in time and space history.
247. 16:58And we put our faith in Jesus and the Greek word for faith
248. 17:02or belief, it really means trust.
249. 17:06But I will say this, and I'm sure Carl Kirby
250. 17:09would concur, you can trust what the Bible says.
251. 17:14Now, it comes to us through manuscripts,
252. 17:18through eyewitness testimony,
253. 17:20through a number of compelling lines of evidence.
254. 17:23But Carl Kirby of Reasons for Hope, our guest right now,
255. 17:28I believe we are on every bit as solid ground,
256. 17:33believing in Jesus and the historical record
257. 17:36the New Testament as we are that Washington crossed the Delaware, Shakespeare wrote plays
258. 17:45and Lincoln spoke at Gettysburg.
259. 17:48I mean, by historical measurements, we have every bit as much reason, yes, to believe the
260. 17:53record of the Gospels and the Bible as well.
261. 17:58It's trustworthy, isn't it?
262. 18:00Oh, amen.
263. 18:02You know, I wanted to point one thing out, Alex, you were talking about earlier that this is
264. 18:06a battle that goes way back you were quoting some very early on folk well guess
265. 18:11what the earliest and this is just off the top my head the earliest apologetic
266. 18:15book that was written because the faith has been under attack from very very
267. 18:19early on right I mean from the literally from the beginning but the earliest
268. 18:24apologetic book that we have really anything left of people might be shocked
269. 18:29by this it dates all the way back I mean this goes all the way back to like 125 to
270. 18:34140 AD, right? So this is not a new battle. I tell people like this, the tools are going
271. 18:43to remain the same and the big tool that they're going to use is the same tool that Satan used
272. 18:47in the very beginning, which was doubt. Did God really say that? Very simple question.
273. 18:51Adam and Eve, they were told the truth by God, but then they were given the opportunity
274. 18:56to make a decision, receive a reject, and they did. And so we're suffering the consequences
275. 19:01of those rejections. So doubt is the tool the Satan will always use. The questions will
276. 19:06change. So being in ministry now for over 20, I guess, seven years now, what I have found
277. 19:12is that I don't get asked the same question that, you know, like you and I when we do our
278. 19:17camps and we put the cards out, what are the questions keeping you from selling out. The
279. 19:20questions that we're getting today, there are some that are the same such as death and suffering,
280. 19:26what makes your book better than their book and those types of things. But I'll tell you
281. 19:30What, at least 70% of the questions we get now are not the same questions that we got
282. 19:34asked five years ago.
283. 19:36So yes, skepticism is rampant, but you know what that means?
284. 19:43That means the darker it gets, the brighter we should shine.
285. 19:46And when we have a firm foundation to stand from, as you said, we can trust the book, the
286. 19:50Word of God, as much more so than many other books.
287. 19:55When you can do that, and then you can articulate why you believe, not just what you believe,
288. 19:59why you believe it's amazing the response that we see from the young people.
289. 20:03They're looking for something that is rock solid.
290. 20:05We have it.
291. 20:06It's Jesus Christ and it's his word.
292. 20:09Amen.
293. 20:09Folks, the voice you're hearing is Carl Kirby, founder of Reasons for Hope, longtime
294. 20:14friend and colleague, just a very valued and trusted colleague in the ministry.
295. 20:21And before we continue our conversation about a worldview and creation, evolution, skepticism,
296. 20:28I do want to mention our camps.
297. 20:31We do for a number of years, really, since the 90s, I have led camps Carl and his staff
298. 20:37have led camps.
299. 20:38And I guess shortly before COVID, we decided to collaborate and the equip retreats.
300. 20:46They go on every summer.
301. 20:47We're in beautiful places like Montana.
302. 20:51Carl, I said this.
303. 20:53If heaven has a satellite office here on Earth, it's probably got to be.
304. 20:58Montana. That is so beautiful. And we're up there. I believe it's Shilah. No
305. 21:05trails in ranch it's called. And we do horseback riding. And we have every
306. 21:12summer have kids get saved. We're in places like upstate New Jersey, beautiful
307. 21:18parts of America and Georgia. And the website, Carl Kregm, if I get this wrong,
308. 21:24It's the equipretreat.org.
309. 21:27Equipretreat.org.
310. 21:30Yeah.
311. 21:31Now, folks, here's what we do.
312. 21:32I mean, we do all the fun camp stuff.
313. 21:35We roast marshmallows and we hike and, you know, all the activities.
314. 21:40But what we do, and the kids love it, I mean, they do, middle school, high school, we drill
315. 21:45down deeply into the Word of God.
316. 21:48And Carl has got two and a half decades plus of ministry.
317. 21:52So do I.
318. 21:54You know, I, back in the day when I was youth pastor for 11 years and I brought Josh McDowell
319. 22:00to town and then I would bring Gary Habermas and Lee Strobel and Norm Geisler, John Ankerberg,
320. 22:08Ravi Zacharias, every major of colleges.
321. 22:11Come on, man.
322. 22:12Yeah.
323. 22:13Why didn't I get to come to some of those camps to hear?
324. 22:15I want to hear those guys.
325. 22:17Well, you know what?
326. 22:18It was amazing.
327. 22:19Well in the late 90s and early 2000s, you know, we were renting the Greensboro Coliseum
328. 22:26in North Carolina.
329. 22:27The homeschool network got word and I mean we would have 5,000 teenagers come out to sit
330. 22:36for eight hours and listen to me, Josh McDowell, Frank Turic, all these people.
331. 22:42We brought Ken Ham to Greensboro of answers and Genesis, David Barton and folks, what I'm
332. 22:48saying is this, at the equip retreat, 30 years of apologetics and biblical worldview training,
333. 22:56the very training that I did when I was working for James Dobson, focus on the family, I was
334. 23:03working on the Truth Project, God's allowed me to write 21 books, Carl has written, what
335. 23:10What we do, Carl Kirby, myself, an incredible speaker named Frank Figueroa, Dave Glander.
336. 23:18So many people, we spend a week out of the summer with your teenagers.
337. 23:25And I challenge parents to invest a week that will count for a lifetime.
338. 23:30And Carl, again, the website is equipretreat.org.
339. 23:35It's very, very affordable.
340. 23:37And I just, the time to plan for summer of 26 is now.
341. 23:43And so, Carl, part of what we do, you and I do it, you're traveling the country, I'm traveling
342. 23:49the country, we do these summer camps every year.
343. 23:53You know, heaven forbid that a young person, they come up in a Christian home or they go
344. 23:59to church, they make a profession of faith, but they graduate high school and they graduate
345. 24:05from God.
346. 24:06or they go away to college and they become an atheist.
347. 24:10And I really believe the camps that you and I do is one of the best things we could do
348. 24:16to inoculate with truth against that.
349. 24:22Amen.
350. 24:23And I can back that up with actual, factual evidence because we have letters and I just
351. 24:28received one within the last month and a half of a young person that went off to college
352. 24:32and started one of the uh... turning point club that the college at the
353. 24:36college at the rottom is very right now
354. 24:38secular college
355. 24:39and he said the only reason i'm where i'm at today is because when i was
356. 24:43uh... young person in high school and i went to the equippity treats
357. 24:46and it is solidified my faith
358. 24:48i've got numbers of those young people so it actually does
359. 24:51uh... work we know that we've got the actual sub uh... evidence from real
360. 24:55young people that are now raising families that are now some of them are
361. 24:59now bringing their
362. 25:00families to do things and
363. 25:02And by the way, one that you didn't mention, Alex, we've got two new ones.
364. 25:05We're going to be in Florida, North Carolina this year as well.
365. 25:08Those are new places and that's in July and August.
366. 25:10So I hope that we can get folks to join us.
367. 25:12I've got some people coming from Hawaii that are going to join us in Montana this year.
368. 25:17Yeah.
369. 25:18And, and you know, folks, whether the issue is creation or evolution or does God
370. 25:23exist or is this an atheistic universe?
371. 25:27And what about Jesus?
372. 25:28How do we know that the Lord Jesus is the one and only Savior?
373. 25:32Or the Bible?
374. 25:34Is the Bible trustworthy?
375. 25:35Is the Bible still the authority on matters of morals,
376. 25:40gender, sexuality?
377. 25:42And even things like marriage and family,
378. 25:46we go over all of the topics,
379. 25:50the issues that not only God's word does speak to,
380. 25:54but kids are hungry to hear it.
381. 25:56Carl, Carl, I got to tell you this. Last November, it was kind of our last big youth thing of the year.
382. 26:03We did a youth weekend on the North Carolina coast at Fort Caswell.
383. 26:08It's a 150 year old fort that the North Carolina Baptist operate on the coast
384. 26:15right beyond Wilmington. Well, it was the 75th anniversary of Fort Caswell,
385. 26:21And I publicized it pretty hard.
386. 26:24Well, we had 1,100 youth and 185 adult chaperones.
387. 26:29Fort Caswell said it was the biggest event
388. 26:31they'd ever had of any kind in their 75 year history.
389. 26:351,100 kids.
390. 26:36And many of these kids, I mean, I would say dozens,
391. 26:40came up and they said, Mr. McFarland,
392. 26:42I was at the equip camp and I wanna hear more,
393. 26:45I wanna learn more so we came down to this youth weekend,
394. 26:47Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
395. 26:49couple of weeks before Thanksgiving.
396. 26:53Here's the thing called, check this out.
397. 26:55On Saturday night, about nine o'clock, we finished.
398. 26:58We had a big altar call, had over 220 kids,
399. 27:01make a salvation decision.
400. 27:03And they had like two hours of free time,
401. 27:06lights out at 11 p.m.
402. 27:08All right, I said, you know, great,
403. 27:10it's been a wonderful day,
404. 27:12but you have two hours of free time.
405. 27:15I'm gonna stay around and do just open Q and A
406. 27:18if you want to, but you can go play volleyball, play in the, you know, the nine square. Well,
407. 27:27we had just over 500 kids stay for two hours of Q and A. I mean, it was their free time,
408. 27:37but half the group, 500 plus teenagers stayed to hear just open Q and A. I guess my point
409. 27:44is kids are hungry hungry for truth aren't they
410. 27:48amen when somebody tells me that they'll tell me that kids are just they're not
411. 27:52interested in any spiritual things like no
412. 27:55that's not true because i can show you that they are
413. 27:59uh... we have the same thing we've seen that the camps i i do not just equip i
414. 28:03speak at other camps as well
415. 28:05and a funny thing happened out of that this big camp and they only want to speak
416. 28:08once in the morning once in the evening
417. 28:10and unlike man this is
418. 28:11this is my life i'm out of you i'm out here for eight hours and i'm just
419. 28:15speaking twice a day
420. 28:16making me crazy because i wanna
421. 28:18i want to pour into people when i'm out someplace if i'm going to be away from
422. 28:21my family i want to do ministry right
423. 28:23so i said would you give me an extra session after lunch during free time
424. 28:27and the camp said well nobody will come as a that's fine if only one kid comes
425. 28:31i'll be great with it
426. 28:32we were getting more than fifty percent of the kids
427. 28:35uh... coming back to just the voluntary q and a just like you had
428. 28:39because they
429. 28:41want something and so uh... folks that are out there please
430. 28:45don't sell the young people short
431. 28:47there's hope
432. 28:48his name is jesus and when you can when you can take and show this younger
433. 28:52generation that look what we're talking about is real it makes sense in the world
434. 28:56we live in
435. 28:57uh... let point out the inconsistencies at the world stone actually because as we
436. 29:01started this whole thing off it is not an evidence problem it's a world view
437. 29:05problem world views will impact
438. 29:07How strong we are willing to stand in something and when we can show somebody that they can stand firmly on the word of God
439. 29:13It changes everything and that's what we need in our culture right now
440. 29:17People who are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ who will open their mouth and I don't care where you are you're not you're not a
441. 29:25Christian here and not a Christian here. No more undercover Christianity
442. 29:28We need people willing to stand firm in the face of the craziness in our world today speaking the truth in love
443. 29:34That's just what it's going to take
444. 29:36Amen.
445. 29:37Amen.
446. 29:38Carl, in the news this week, there was a report of a new fossil that said it might
447. 29:47rewrite what we think about Lucy and early humans and things like that.
448. 29:54Before we dive into this too much, what is Lucy?
449. 29:56Yeah, that's what I referred to earlier when I said they just found this new two-inch long
450. 30:02bone that changes everything they've known to be true for the last 150 years.
451. 30:06It's a piece of a jaw.
452. 30:07It's not even a full jaw.
453. 30:08It's a piece of a jaw and it's going to change everything that we've known to be true.
454. 30:13How strong is your position?
455. 30:15Now to answer your question, Lucy is supposedly our evolutionary ancestor and for folks that
456. 30:21kind of grasp this, don't use the line anymore that, well, if you believe we evolved from apes,
457. 30:26how can we still have apes?
458. 30:28Because the evolutionary model doesn't teach that we evolved from apes anymore.
459. 30:31It teaches that apes and humans came from a common ancestor.
460. 30:36Lucy for a number of years has been the strongest candidate for that missing link, something that
461. 30:42looks like an ape but walks like a human.
462. 30:45And so Lucy supposedly is that thing from which both apes and humans came from.
463. 30:51But when you go dig deeper, oh my, it is not anything that we need to be afraid of.
464. 30:56Matter of fact, as I told people earlier, if they downloaded the app, they'll see a merch
465. 31:01section, go to the merch section and you'll see PDFs. If you hit PDFs, there's a booklet
466. 31:08inside there called Lucy Unlinked. And it has nothing but secular sources showing you
467. 31:14exactly what they have. And when you get done looking at that, it will blow your mind.
468. 31:19Now it's a sale thing on there, Alex, and I'm not trying to sell anybody on that. So just
469. 31:24when you, if you put it in your store and you check out, type in the gift code CARLSGIFT.
470. 31:30C-A-R-L-S, get Carl's gift and it'll be absolutely free and you can download it.
471. 31:37But Lucy was nothing, it was nothing to be concerned though, I can tell you that right
472. 31:43now.
473. 31:44Yeah.
474. 31:45You know what, and this might be a little bit of a silly analogy, but Carl, do you remember
475. 31:51that show, Frasier, Comedy Show years ago, Kelsey Grammer, Frasier?
476. 31:56Yeah.
477. 31:57He and his brother in this sitcom,
478. 32:00they were always getting into circumstances.
479. 32:03Well, they went to their boyhood home
480. 32:06and they saw something on the floor, I forget.
481. 32:10And they just extrapolate and they said,
482. 32:12oh, there's been a murder.
483. 32:13Well, they just got all riled up and it was nothing.
484. 32:16They inferred things that were completely false.
485. 32:20When I read about these fossils
486. 32:22and they'll find like a shard of bone
487. 32:25And they'll say, oh, this was our ancestor 3.2 million years ago.
488. 32:28They extrapolate.
489. 32:30They build up this whole narrative.
490. 32:33They're really extrapolating, jumping the gun.
491. 32:36We're going to come back.
492. 32:37Alex McFrawn here, Carl Kirby of Reasons for Hope,
493. 32:41our summer camps coming up, the equipretreat.org.
494. 32:46We'll talk about skepticism, worldview,
495. 32:49and the future of our youth.
496. 32:50Stay tuned.
497. 32:50We've got a brief break.
498. 32:51We'll be back after this.
499. 32:53They'll go away.
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506. 33:18But by God's grace, Preborn's network of clinics
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508. 33:23I'm Bert Harper of Exploring the Word,
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515. 33:49Go to AFR.net or call 877-616-2396.
516. 33:55That's 877-616-2396.
517. 34:04Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Bitted Common Terrets are available at AFR.net.
518. 34:10Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
519. 34:15Welcome back to the program.
520. 34:17Alex McFarland here.
521. 34:18Very honored to be sitting in for Abe Hamilton.
522. 34:21If you recognize my voice, it might be from a show called Exploring the Word.
523. 34:26Now in its 16th year on the American Family Radio Network, we are heard three to four
524. 34:31central time every day, Monday through Friday, four to five Eastern time.
525. 34:36And we explore the word.
526. 34:38You know, my co-host and I, Bert Harper, and I have a brand new book out called 100 Bible
527. 34:43Questions on Prophecy and the End Times.
528. 34:47We go through Daniel in Revelation, some fresh research on AI and the global system of cryptocurrency
529. 34:56and the web and just the surveillance state that the world has become.
530. 35:03But we talk about what the Bible truly says about the last days and the return of Christ.
531. 35:08It's available to the American Family Association resource store and it's at Barnes and Noble
532. 35:14bookstores everywhere.
533. 35:16So if you would check out the book, 100 Bible Questions and Answers on Prophecy and the End
534. 35:22Times, my travel schedule, and I'm on the road everywhere, every weekend, but it's at
535. 35:28AlexMcFarland.com.
536. 35:31My friend here, Carl Kirby, Carl, let me ask you this.
537. 35:34What are some of the latest resources that you and your staff have put out?
538. 35:39Is your speaking schedule available online?
539. 35:42And if so, what is that URL?
540. 35:44Well, thank you.
541. 35:46Our F-O-R-A-COM is our website.
542. 35:52And if you just do that, our F-O-R-H, that will be our app as well.
543. 35:56And the events calendar is on both of those.
544. 35:59And it's not just me speaking.
545. 36:01I've got Juan Valdez with me, a wonderful, wonderful phenomenal speaker.
546. 36:04Frank Figueroa is a great speaker.
547. 36:08Each of us have different giftings and different areas.
548. 36:11But man, it's wonderful to see the body of Christ come together and do that.
549. 36:15frank and i actually going to be down in alabama coming up here pretty quick
550. 36:18we're speaking not doing an impact conference we just finished up in
551. 36:20whole white
552. 36:21uh... like three three four days ago
553. 36:24i'm going to be in kentucky here pretty soon ohio
554. 36:27uh... and and my schedule just bouncing all around but you can see it
555. 36:31like i said are four f o r h dot com
556. 36:34look under the event tab
557. 36:36and you'll see all of our speakers tabs of speaking to under that tab i should
558. 36:39say
559. 36:41you know uh... folks
560. 36:43Fallacies are faulty ways of thinking.
561. 36:48And if we fall for a fallacy,
562. 36:51we're gonna draw conclusions that aren't true.
563. 36:54And one of the more common fallacies,
564. 36:57whenever I teach logic or critical thinking skills
565. 37:02at universities, there is a thing called a non sequitur.
566. 37:07Now that's Latin for not sequential.
567. 37:10In other words, it doesn't necessarily follow at all, right?
568. 37:15And Carl, the reason I bring that up is when I was in college, you know, 35 years ago,
569. 37:20and even now, you know, it seems like in the secular press,
570. 37:26they'll find a tooth or a fragment of a bone and they'll have pictures of a whole
571. 37:31village and they'll have this whole backstory.
572. 37:34Like, you know, we're talking about Lucy that was long thought to be our common
573. 37:39ancestor and
574. 37:41You know, I remember I used to in college and graduate school. I would kind of like you know scratch my head
575. 37:48I'm like you don't know that you got a you got a piece of a bone
576. 37:53And you've got this whole narrative about the last three million years and by the way, I don't believe the world
577. 37:59You've gone you've gone solid. I can't hear
578. 38:02Oh, okay. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now Carl?
579. 38:06Carl are you there?
580. 38:08So, Alex McFarland here, we're talking with Carl Kirby, and a non-sequitur is something
581. 38:17that doesn't necessarily follow.
582. 38:20And when they come to the table presupposing the truth of Darwinian evolution, that presupposing
583. 38:30that we trust Darwin from 1859, rather than the book of Genesis from, you know, well, the
584. 38:39events in the book of Genesis are 4000 B.C., although Moses wrote it in about 1400 B.C.
585. 38:49during the time of the Exodus, God gave Moses the first five books of the Bible. By the
586. 38:53the way we call that the Pentateuch, P-E-N-T, the prefix pent means five. Well, Genesis, Exodus,
587. 39:01Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, those are the first five books of the Bible. And my point
588. 39:08is folks that there have been few worldviews as influential as the Darwinian evolutionary
589. 39:17world view. Now, it's interesting how the pro-evolutionists, the anti-creation, really
590. 39:24anti-creation, anti-God, anti-moral voices, they don't use the term Darwinism like they
591. 39:34once did because, you know, Charles Darwin made some statements that really, frankly,
592. 39:40were racist because he assumed various ethnicities were inferior to others.
593. 39:50So he had, and evolution theory is inherently racist.
594. 39:56But so they don't use his name as much as they used to.
595. 40:00However, they definitely use his theory.
596. 40:02The idea that we purposely, purposely, just randomly evolved, undirected, time plus chance,
597. 40:12plus prime, you know, inanimate matter.
598. 40:15But that doesn't answer so many questions like the origin of consciousness.
599. 40:21How did inanimate matter like the primordial ooze develop consciousness?
600. 40:27But Carl, speak if you would about the fact that you can't just get world history from
601. 40:35a bone fragment.
602. 40:37It doesn't necessarily follow, does it?
603. 40:40No, it's exactly like we were talking earlier that bones and fossils don't evidence to speak
604. 40:46for itself.
605. 40:47It's always interpreted and whoever's doing the interpreting is going to have some worldview,
606. 40:52some approach to doing these things.
607. 40:54I'll give you a perfect example.
608. 40:56I take people out and we dig dinosaur bones sometimes and we were in Glendive, Montana
609. 41:00and I found a toe bone.
610. 41:01It did, Montessoris toe bone.
611. 41:03I didn't know what it was at the time and we were looking at it.
612. 41:06It was like 90 to 95 percent complete but there was one break that went straight across
613. 41:11the bone and there was just this little tiny bit of material missing.
614. 41:17So we're trying to figure out, okay, what does this belong to?
615. 41:20And the way that I put the two pieces of bone together, I could have had it perfectly straight
616. 41:25Or it also fit if you had about a 15 degree angle.
617. 41:31And it was like, okay, so which way do you put
618. 41:33this bone back together?
619. 41:35We looked and finally we found,
620. 41:38because they found so many bones over the years now
621. 41:40that we can take what you find and compare it to charts
622. 41:42of what has already been found and know what it is.
623. 41:44And we found that it fit within a monosource,
624. 41:46a juvenile with monosource toe bone,
625. 41:49and it needed that little 15 degree angle.
626. 41:52But you see, I could have put it back together,
627. 41:55because now that I've put it back together and sealed it up,
628. 41:57you wouldn't be able to tell Alex.
629. 41:59You would look at this and think it's 100% complete.
630. 42:01It's not.
631. 42:02It was 95% complete, and I could have put it back together
632. 42:05straight, and it would have been something,
633. 42:07I would have made it look like it was something
634. 42:09completely totally different than what it was.
635. 42:11Here's the problem.
636. 42:12When you find pieces, just pieces many times,
637. 42:16and I mean, if people don't trust,
638. 42:18don't believe me on this, go look for yourself.
639. 42:20Some of our supposed ancestors have pieces
640. 42:24of a jawbone, pieces of a skull.
641. 42:27Lucy, the one that we talked about earlier,
642. 42:29the most famous is because she was so complete.
643. 42:32If you look at the total number of bones in a human
644. 42:34and chimp body versus what they found,
645. 42:36they'd say you've got like 80%.
646. 42:38No, you don't.
647. 42:39You've really got much less than that.
648. 42:40Less than about 40% of Lucy was found.
649. 42:43No hand bones, no foot bones.
650. 42:45But when you see the depictions of Lucy,
651. 42:47they show her walking upright
652. 42:48with human hands and human feet.
653. 42:50But the more bones that they found from that species
654. 42:53Osteopithecus effarensis, which is Lucy's species, the hand bones and foot bones that they found
655. 42:59from her species were actually more curved than a chimpanzee.
656. 43:03So they show you the images of Lucy with a human hand than a human feet, but then the
657. 43:08actual bones that belong to that species, her cousins, were actually more curved than a chimpanzee.
658. 43:13So this is not science, this is science fiction.
659. 43:17The Bible tells us, don't be turned from truth unto fables.
660. 43:22And that's what we see going on.
661. 43:23We don't have a truth problem.
662. 43:25We have a fable problem.
663. 43:27You know Carl, one of the most compelling things that I've seen, and by the way, when
664. 43:32we show videos at camp, like from 60 Minutes, the new show, you should see the faces of
665. 43:41the kids.
666. 43:43I was taught millions of years in school.
667. 43:47I always, even before I was a Christian, I questioned that.
668. 43:51But soft tissue samples in fossils.
669. 43:55And this is huge and there's a number of people.
670. 43:59But back in 2005, Dr. Mary Schweitzer, who was a paleontologist at NC State University,
671. 44:07where my father graduated from NC State, she found soft, flexible, moist tissue in over
672. 44:18300 dinosaur bone samples. Now, fossils that were supposed to be millions of years old,
673. 44:26repeatedly. It was not just a one time anomaly, but they would find blood cells, wet, soft tissue
674. 44:35preservation in hard rock fossils that they would saw open. Carl, I mean, it just stands
675. 44:48to reason that. I mean, if this thing were, you know, three, four, two to four, five million
676. 44:54years old, there still wouldn't be, you know, soft material in there. What does the, first
677. 45:04Here's what, speak to it if you would, but soft tissue, blood cells in bone fossils.
678. 45:12What do you make of that coral?
679. 45:14Look, Alex, I can give you firsthand experience on this one because I told you I'd take people
680. 45:19on dinosaur digs sometimes.
681. 45:22In Glendive, Montana, the first time I went, I found another cobone, a smaller one than
682. 45:27the Admonosaurus before.
683. 45:28I took that cobone down to Texas and took it to a place where they have three electron
684. 45:34They cut off very, very fine slices of this bone.
685. 45:39I think it was like five micron slices.
686. 45:42They put the bone that I discovered personally in sediment,
687. 45:46sediment that the evolutionists would date anywhere from 68 to 75 million years,
688. 45:53anywhere in that time frame.
689. 45:55I don't believe those days.
690. 45:56That's just their dating techniques.
691. 45:58We need to know it and not be afraid of it.
692. 46:00I took that bone.
693. 46:01They sliced it.
694. 46:02they put it under a electron microscope and i was speaking and when i got done
695. 46:05speaking i came back they ran up to me come here come here you gotta see this
696. 46:08they took me back i have the flight i have the bone i have the images
697. 46:13inside the bone that i discovered out of this
698. 46:16sixty eight to seventy two million year old
699. 46:19they found blood clots
700. 46:22college in
701. 46:23that is organic material organic material under the best preservation
702. 46:28methods will not last even a hundred thousand years alex
703. 46:31you can cryogenetically store organic material and it will still still break
704. 46:36down that there will be nothing left after a hundred thousand years so
705. 46:40mary switzer's fine
706. 46:42they ridiculed it when it first came out the the evolution of a factor and
707. 46:46mochture
708. 46:47it's our material that got put in there by mistake and all this kind of thing
709. 46:51and now
710. 46:52what you will read if you go do any research on this it doesn't matter what
711. 46:56phone you find they are finding organic material as you said tissue red blood
712. 47:00in almost every dinosaur bone that they find, this is not something that is like, oh, wow,
713. 47:08this is a shock.
714. 47:09No, it's almost every bone that they find now.
715. 47:14So this screams that this bone is not new, it's not new, it can't be.
716. 47:19And there's a bunch of other pieces of evidence that you can use as well.
717. 47:22But to me, that's probably the most powerful.
718. 47:24It will discover magazine, wrote an article called Schweitzer's Dangerous Discovery.
719. 47:31I'm just going to say it, you comment.
720. 47:36This discovery is dangerous because it is just empirical proof that the millions of years
721. 47:43narrative couldn't be true.
722. 47:48Shwitzer is listed as the first researcher to identify and isolate soft tissue in ancient
723. 47:56fossil bones, collagen, protein, amino acid.
724. 48:02Here's the thing, Carl.
725. 48:04I would think that this would have been front page news all around the planet.
726. 48:08Oh, yeah.
727. 48:09Wouldn't you?
728. 48:10Oh, yeah.
729. 48:11Well, you know, when I do it, I do a talk on this and I show the actual clips when she
730. 48:14She went on 60 minutes and it was shocking how much vitriol she received from her peers.
731. 48:23It wasn't because of necessarily the evidence because the evidence was solid.
732. 48:29The evidence is what it is.
733. 48:30That's all there is to it.
734. 48:32But it was because she was willing to even show it.
735. 48:35They were upset because here's the implications.
736. 48:37You're giving creationist tools now to fight against evolution.
737. 48:42What?
738. 48:43Science literally means knowledge.
739. 48:45How do you gain knowledge through the scientific method?
740. 48:48What is the scientific method?
741. 48:49You use your five senses in the present,
742. 48:51you make an observation, you test your observation,
743. 48:54you come up with an hypothesis,
744. 48:55and you go through this whole process.
745. 48:57And regardless of where that result leads,
746. 49:01is the way that it's supposed to be.
747. 49:02This is the evidence.
748. 49:03Here's what we did.
749. 49:04We went through the process.
750. 49:05We are finding soft tissue.
751. 49:08We are finding red blood cells,
752. 49:09collagen and bones that are dated this old.
753. 49:12Well, that therefore shows that this stuff can't be that old.
754. 49:14No, we can't do that because now you have undermined the entire worldview that we've been talking about, that there is a God.
755. 49:24Almost out of time.
756. 49:24I'm going to get rid of that worldview.
757. 49:26Yeah, Carl, give your website one last time.
758. 49:28We're almost done.
759. 49:30I am so sorry.
760. 49:31Our f o r h dot com.
761. 49:33Don't be ashamed.
762. 49:34Stand firm.
763. 49:35God bless you, folks.
764. 49:36Thanks for listening.
765. 49:37We'll see you soon on AFR.
766. 49:38The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
767. 49:45Family Association or American Family Radio.