Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Bert Harper & M.D. Perkins

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:23Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28and now the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:31Generation of Royal Priesthood, a holy nation,
12. 0:37a peculiar people that you should show forth the praises of him
13. 0:41who called you out of darkness and into his marvelous light.
14. 0:46Well, with that verse, which is 1 Peter 2, 9,
15. 0:48I welcome you to this edition of the Hamilton Corner,
16. 0:51Alex McFarland here.
17. 0:53And folks, we have got a really, really special show today.
18. 0:56I've got the privilege of sitting in for attorney,
19. 1:00Pastor, broadcaster Abe Hamilton III.
20. 1:03He is traveling right now and so I'm sitting in tonight.
21. 1:07And we've got a great show we're going to bring in in just a moment, Bird Harper, my
22. 1:10co-host on exploring the word.
23. 1:12Also my co-author of our brand new book, our third book we've done together on Bible prophecy.
24. 1:19We'll tell you about that in a moment later on in the show as well.
25. 1:22Author, scholar, documentary filmmaker, M.D. Perkins, a major part of the American family
26. 1:29studios and ministry and we're going to talk about the culture war and really you and I have a role as the old song says
27. 1:38onward christian soldiers you might not
28. 1:42especially like the the idea of spiritual warfare or the nomenclature of being
29. 1:48you know a soldier of the cross but we really are and
30. 1:51And this verse, 1 Peter 2, 9, that we're a chosen generation, a holy nation, that we're
31. 1:58called to show forth the praises of the one who called us from out of darkness and into
32. 2:06his marvelous light, Jesus.
33. 2:08But let me go back to 1 Peter 2, 8, because it says, Jesus is a stone of stumbling, a rock
34. 2:17of offense to those which stumble at the Word being disobedient. Think about this, folks,
35. 2:26to come out bold for Jesus, to say, you know, I believe what the Word of God says, and culture
36. 2:33may go where culture goes, but the Word of God is forever. You might think that's a little
37. 2:40bit hard-shell these days or something like that. But understand that from time immemorial,
38. 2:46Jesus Christ, the Holy Son of God, our accountability to the Lord.
39. 2:51People have had a problem with Jesus and truth forever, and yet we are called to be faithful
40. 2:59to Christ and to present, explain, defend the truth.
41. 3:05Present, explain, and if need be, defend the truth.
42. 3:09And that's something that we must do, I would say, more than ever.
43. 3:11Well, with me in the studio is Bert Harper for, I don't know, at least 14, 15 years
44. 3:17you and I've worked together on another AFR show exploring the word.
45. 3:22And I was just in a meeting here at AFR Bert and I give God the glory.
46. 3:27And I was told that as has been the case for some years, exploring the word is among the
47. 3:33most popular shows in the broadcast day.
48. 3:37I give God the glory and I thank you.
49. 3:40I want to talk about a lot of things, but everybody knows you, but thanks for being with us on this edition of The Hamilton Corner.
50. 3:47Well, thank you for having me. It's good to be here and listen.
51. 3:50Driving home with Abe is one thing I hear about a lot.
52. 3:54I'll go somewhere and I said, I get off at five and go out and get in my car and on my way home.
53. 4:00I'm listening to The Hamilton Corner, so it's good to be on it with you.
54. 4:04Well, it's an honor, you know, Jeff McIntosh, the engineer, is very gracious.
55. 4:08A lot of times when Abe is out of the office, Jeff will call me and Jeff McIntosh,
56. 4:15and I've done a lot of radio together and people everywhere I travel say it means a
57. 4:19lot to them and same with exploring the word.
58. 4:22And I wanted to talk to you a little bit prior to your season as a radio host,
59. 4:29you pastored for quite a number of years.
60. 4:32And how long were you at West Jackson?
61. 4:35At West Jackson Street here at Tupelo,
62. 4:37I was pastor 28 years.
63. 4:39I was a staff member two years.
64. 4:41So 30 years at one church.
65. 4:46When you were a pastor,
66. 4:48and I hear everywhere I meet people around Tupelo,
67. 4:51everybody knows Bert and Jan Harper,
68. 4:53but the idea that the church was a voice of righteousness
69. 4:58and that part of the pulpit ministry of any pastor is yes to you know as Vince
70. 5:06Havener says comfort the afflicted but we're also to afflict the comfortable and
71. 5:11we're to call people to take a stand for righteousness was that viewed as part
72. 5:17of the calling when you were coming up Bert I didn't know there's anything else
73. 5:21to do I was taught to preach through the word expositorly at least textural
74. 5:28in my schooling, you had those that were topical and those that were
75. 5:33expository. Our professor taught us it's a little bit different. Expository seems
76. 5:40to go over each word in each sentence very carefully. Textually you do that but
77. 5:46you do it with an outline in a section rather than necessarily verse by verse.
78. 5:51And if you do that you're just going to absolutely get on the issues of the day.
79. 5:57eventually. You have to per I would have had to purposefully avoid them not to speak to the
80. 6:04issues and I think that's what a lot of people do. So I was just preaching I didn't know what
81. 6:10I was doing as politically correct or incorrect. Staying in the word of God if you're staying
82. 6:16in the word of God you're going to do it. But I think about the big issues of our time and
83. 6:22And as long as I've been a Christian, I've become a believer in the late 80s.
84. 6:26As long as I've been a Christian, I've heard the culture war would include standing for
85. 6:32life and against abortion, standing for true marriage and against gay marriage, standing
86. 6:41for parents' rights and not viewing children as the property of the state, standing that
87. 6:48Jesus is the one and only Savior. We do not worship the same God as Islam, right? But even
88. 6:55things like patriotism. Bert, do you think if the pastors of America 50 years ago had really used
89. 7:05their pulpit to challenge people, how you live, how you vote, would America look different today
90. 7:14if the pastors had really issued a clarion call that didn't happen 50 years ago.
91. 7:21I believe it would have made a big difference because Don Weilman, our founder, did that and
92. 7:27it has made a difference. I agree with someone who said, if you look at the Bible, you see us
93. 7:32going off of a cliff sooner or later. But you want to do it not speedily, not going 100 miles an
94. 7:40now or at least. So if the preachers would have preached, I think those issues, those
95. 7:46issues were not relevant as life was now in the 60s and 70s. You know, so-called homosexual
96. 7:54marriage. That wasn't even thought of as anything. Paneography was a big deal. And that got a
97. 8:03doctor, a Wyoming. That was really the one of the biggest deals, 7-11 selling pornography
98. 8:09on a shelf where children could look at it. That was a drive-in force. What was on television
99. 8:15was a drive-in force. So what's happened along the way, when one of those areas, pornography,
100. 8:22when that issue of whatever it might be, you lower the standard, it brings in the possibility
101. 8:29of other things because it's like water. It will seek its lowest level and seeing will seek its
102. 8:36slowest level. And so you see that dike, you know, we had, you
103. 8:41know, trying to put her fingers in the dock to keep from being
104. 8:44flooded. And but you had great preachers. Okay. Adrian Rogers,
105. 8:49man, Charles Stanley, they were preaching and they were
106. 8:52preaching righteousness. You already mentioned DJ James
107. 8:54Kennedy. Yeah. And I heard a sermon about the faith of, of
108. 8:58George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. And that's when I
109. 9:02was young. And so some of the pulpit and they were the powerful
110. 9:06pulpit's. But listen, sin is always going to be with us, but we need to take a stand.
111. 9:12You remember why they didn't say be faithful, where you're successful or not.
112. 9:16Yeah. So that was also be true in the pulpit. You preach truth, whether people want to hear
113. 9:21it or not. You mentioned Dr. Don Wollman. And with that, I want to bring in another voice
114. 9:27to the conversation. And by the way, folks, if you're just tuning in, this is the, no,
115. 9:32it's not exploring the word. It's the Hamilton Corner. It's hard to not do it when I'm
116. 9:35side by side.
117. 9:36I know.
118. 9:37And we are just a day after Sherathon and we don't completely know all the numbers, but
119. 9:43for those that have been praying for this ministry and supporting, we thank you.
120. 9:47I'm sure we'll be praising God and letting you know about Sherathon this week.
121. 9:53But your support enables us to do things like we're doing, and somebody that God is using
122. 9:59in a great way is author, filmmaker, journalist, really, M.D. Perkins and M.D., thank you for
123. 10:06being with us. There's a lot that I want you to tell people about, but Bird Harper mentioned
124. 10:14the founder of AFA, Don Wildman, and you just completed a riveting documentary on him. First
125. 10:23of all, tell people what all you do for the ministry here, M.D., if you would.
126. 10:26Yeah, I'm a filmmaker, film producer, director.
127. 10:30So projects like The God Who Speaks that you were featured in, Alex, projects like In His
128. 10:36Image.
129. 10:37I was a producer on that and then our most recent documentary, Culture Warrior, Don Weilman in
130. 10:41the Battle for Decency, which people can go watch at Culture Warrior.movie.
131. 10:45You can watch it for free there.
132. 10:47But these are the kinds of projects that AFA is really interested in because they speak
133. 10:52to the issues of the day and provide resources to the church.
134. 10:56Because each of those, if you were kind of listening, the God who speaks builds us on
135. 11:00the foundation of the authority of God's Word.
136. 11:03In his image starts to apply the authority of God's Word to issues of gender and sexuality.
137. 11:08And then the question of the culture war and Christians involvement, yes, it's a historical
138. 11:12look back, but it's also explaining why those issues mattered at the time and the context
139. 11:18of what would stir up someone like a Don Wowman to stand up and speak out on issues like a
140. 11:25abortion or pornography, homosexuality, all of these different issues afflicting us in culture
141. 11:31because Christians are called to be salt and light and that was part of what Don was calling
142. 11:36people to.
143. 11:37So I get to work on projects like that in addition to writing material that related to various
144. 11:43research projects connected with that like a book called Dangerous Affirmation, The Thread
145. 11:47of gay Christianity which I've written as well.
146. 11:51So much I want to ask both of you gentlemen about the book dangerous affirmation and by
147. 11:55the way folks if you're struggling with how to take a biblical stand and fruitful stand
148. 12:02against the LGBTQ trans narrative where can they find the book MD that you're it's a fantastic
149. 12:09book I've recommended it in many places dangerous affirmation where is it yes go to dangerous
150. 12:15Affirmation.net, dangerousaffirmation.net.
151. 12:19You can buy the book there either in a digital copy
152. 12:21or a physical copy through the mail,
153. 12:24but dangerousaffirmation.net.
154. 12:26The documentary culture warrior,
155. 12:27which is really great, and I would encourage you to watch it.
156. 12:31It meant a lot to me, MD, because I really remember
157. 12:36those years, and my parents were conservatives
158. 12:39and then conservative Christians gave their life
159. 12:42to the Lord watching Charles Stanley.
160. 12:44Oh, wow.
161. 12:45Really came back to the Lord.
162. 12:47They had made a decision for Christ as teenagers, but really I saw my mother and dad get on fire
163. 12:55for Christ till the day they died through Charles Stanley.
164. 13:00But they were very, I remember the late 70s, the early 80s, but you, how did you begin to
165. 13:09do the Don Wildman story?
166. 13:11Were you familiar with him already?
167. 13:14I grew up here in Tupelo, so my parents were supporters of AFA, so I was aware, but I didn't
168. 13:19know the depth of the history and all of the details of these battles that were fought
169. 13:24throughout the years in the culture war.
170. 13:26And so the research really began by just going through all of the old newsletters, which became
171. 13:32the AFA Journal, which became the stand as we know it today, the magazine.
172. 13:37But that documents the whole history, and we've got the archives here at the office, and just
173. 13:42reading through the details of that so I can understand the actual little pieces of what
174. 13:47he was doing as well as the big pictures of what battles mattered and what was the outcome
175. 13:53of some of those.
176. 13:54Were there any things that you came along that were especially inspiring or surprising?
177. 14:00I mean there's so many shocking things like people don't know that Don debated CBS executive
178. 14:08vice presidents and he was sued by Playboy and Penthouse Magazine and all of these kind
179. 14:14of major figures that shows the impact that he had that he was able to even shake things
180. 14:18up with some of these major movers and shakers at high levels of pop culture.
181. 14:23Hey, when you've got these major secular corporations wanting to bring you down, you're doing good.
182. 14:30I think you're doing something right.
183. 14:32This is Alex McFarland along with Bert Harper, M.D. Perkins, the Hamilton corner you're listening
184. 14:37to the American Family Radio Network. We're going to come back and learn more about the
185. 14:41culture war, some of the specific places where the battle rages and how we can be involved
186. 14:47in it. First Peter 2, 9 says, we can show forth the glory of Jesus to a darkened world. Stay
187. 14:56tuned, we've got a break, we're back after this.
188. 15:00Are people basically good? God says in Romans 3, 10, there is no one righteous, not even
189. 15:06This doesn't mean that people are incapable of doing good things.
190. 15:10It means that apart from God, our nature is bent toward self-centeredness, pride, and rebellion.
191. 15:17We don't just make mistakes. We sin.
192. 15:20And sin separates us from a holy God.
193. 15:23Read Our People Basically Good by Dr. Alex McFarland at thestand.net
194. 15:29Shiting light into the darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
195. 15:40Welcome back to the program Alex McFarland here talking about the culture war you
196. 15:46know MD I've ever since I was a young young Christian I've loved to read
197. 15:51biographies and they're very inspiring I remember when I was a young Christian I
198. 15:55read some biographies of people like Billy Graham and DL Moody and in a way
199. 16:02the documentary you made is kind of a biography isn't it of talk to us about
200. 16:07the rise of Don Wahlman and I know Bert is his wife Linda Wildman. She was
201. 16:15right there too. I mean, didn't this ministry kind of start just in their home?
202. 16:20Absolutely. Yeah. I mean it's called today the American Family Association but back
203. 16:25then the initial name was the National Federation for Decency and that gives you
204. 16:30a sense of his concern that it's about decency just in general like that
205. 16:35concept that there's a common good that we should all be aspiring toward and we used to
206. 16:40have an agreed sense of what those terms were as a society. That there was even television
207. 16:46itself was initiated to serve the public interest. That was what even some of the founding
208. 16:52documents that regulated TV content would describe it as. The public interest and Don
209. 16:58had seen a shift in society. It hit him especially hard one night in December of 1976 when he's
210. 17:05sitting down to watch TV with his family. It's been busy holiday season, you know, as a pastor,
211. 17:10you know, you're always doing stuff in the Christmas season, you know that. You can't get a quiet moment,
212. 17:16but he finally found one, his children were off from school and they sit down and they're like,
213. 17:20just let's just watch TV. You know, something fun together as a family, it's the holidays,
214. 17:25There should be something Christmas on and you know each station because there's only three networks had something objectionable on it
215. 17:32And Don just had his son turn off the TV and he sat there and he thought what has happened?
216. 17:38That this is this is just a normal weeknight on prime time TV where there's sex on one station
217. 17:44violence on another and profanity on the other and you can't get away from it and so that just
218. 17:49that hit him in a deep way and it really laid a new burden and a new calling on him
219. 17:55where he ended up leaving the past for it to start the National Federation for
220. 17:59Decency so that he could begin to be an accountability to the media networks and
221. 18:06and the larger culture and Christians everywhere to kind of speak up about the
222. 18:11ways that we had just been apathetic quite frankly as people you know you
223. 18:15just go through life you're not really thinking about what you're watching on
224. 18:18TV. Yeah, I mean, it might bother you at times, but you can just turn it off, change the channel.
225. 18:23Well, what if you can't change the channel? What if you change it and there's something
226. 18:26else objectionable on? You know, this was having an influence on society. And he was thinking
227. 18:32like even the rise of violence within culture, where the FBI had released his statistic at
228. 18:39the time in 1977, that between 1966 and 77, that you were 50% more likely to be assaulted
229. 18:48just out on the street. And so he's like, how is this not being influenced in some ways by the
230. 18:54media that we're watching, the ultra violent stuff on TV and all of these things. So that's
231. 18:59that's really what lit the fire underneath Don Wileman as a pastor. And I mean, obviously we're
232. 19:04grateful for what he was able to do because he didn't just he didn't just have his personal
233. 19:10conviction. He sought to get others involved as part of this public witness. And to build an
234. 19:15institution, an organization, the National Federation for Decency, now AFA that continues
235. 19:21the fight on even after he's gone to glory.
236. 19:23Burt, do you remember your first meeting with Don Wildman?
237. 19:28I do.
238. 19:29And it was about pornography.
239. 19:30It was about it being displayed on a chef level.
240. 19:35So kids or anyone could look at it and I went to that meeting and he was telling about the
241. 19:41I already knew the dangers.
242. 19:42I did not have to know that.
243. 19:45But okay, what can we do?
244. 19:47So I was one of those pastors says,
245. 19:48okay, what's the most effective way?
246. 19:51Yes, you can declare it from the pulpit,
247. 19:53but that just goes so far.
248. 19:55So action, what really made the difference?
249. 19:58And it's in the mission statement,
250. 20:00inform, equip, and then quote, third one, activate.
251. 20:04That's really what angered them,
252. 20:07because I would say the informant
253. 20:10had was taking place. People knew that. We had enough people to know what was being informed.
254. 20:16Equipping was a little, okay, what can they do? You know, we share the Word of God and it's
255. 20:21quick and powerful, but yet is your father. But when he added the Word, activate to get others
256. 20:26to join him like turn off the TV there for a week. Activate. That's really what put him in the cross
257. 20:35hairs of the, you know, all the network. It was the man, the
258. 20:40network loves the hate. That's sort of like Trump now, the
259. 20:44man, the president, the Democrats, love Tate. Okay. You
260. 20:47know what I mean? That was the truth because he was saying,
261. 20:51okay, we can't just sit here as as MD was saying, we need to do
262. 20:55something. He was ready to lead the charge.
263. 20:59Well, and let me say what went a world that's the enemy of God
264. 21:04and truth and holiness hates you, you're probably doing something right.
265. 21:09And I remember some of those boycotts and it speaks with really the only language that
266. 21:16corporate America responds to, which is money.
267. 21:20Now the reason I'm telling you folks to watch culture, warrior, the documentary, because I
268. 21:26find it to be inspiring.
269. 21:28Folks, if you've ever wondered, what can one person do?
270. 21:32I mean, look around.
271. 21:34I mean, there's publishing, broadcasting, a news department.
272. 21:39Right.
273. 21:40I mean, I was up in Canada, MD, on a speaking engagement at the University of Toronto.
274. 21:46I'm up in Canada and I'm at a hotel and people recognize me and they say, oh, we listen to
275. 21:52AFA in Canada.
276. 21:54Well, so you'll be inspired friends.
277. 21:57And this thing of 1 Peter 2 9 that we are called to show forth the praises of Christ
278. 22:04at the one who called us out of darkness into his marvelous light.
279. 22:09We're called to do that as Don Mom and did.
280. 22:12But speak to some of the, so you're saying some of the corporations sued him.
281. 22:19That means he must have been effective.
282. 22:21Well, you know, people say the boycotts don't work.
283. 22:24But why did people try and stop him and why did they want him to relinquish the boycott?
284. 22:30So let me tell you a great story, Alex.
285. 22:33So one of these times in the early 1990s, there was Burger King, of course, everybody
286. 22:41knows Burger King.
287. 22:42They were one of the major advertisers on these raunchy shows at the time.
288. 22:47And so Don initiated a boycott against Burger King.
289. 22:50And Burger King was so impacted by the boycott that within a matter of weeks they requested
290. 22:57a meeting with AFA leadership to try and get him to relinquish this.
291. 23:01And you know what they did?
292. 23:02They tried to buy off Don.
293. 23:04They offered him $7 million to get him to stop the boycott.
294. 23:09And he refused.
295. 23:11He said, this isn't about money.
296. 23:13This is about principle.
297. 23:14Wow.
298. 23:15And so they had to relinquish this and kind of recognize what he was doing.
299. 23:20And what he ended up getting them to do was to run advertisements in all the newspapers
300. 23:26in the country saying that we support American values and traditional values.
301. 23:32And that's the kind of stuff that we're going to promote on TV now.
302. 23:35And so, you know.
303. 23:36Well, I did not know that.
304. 23:38It's an unknown story.
305. 23:40And it's actually a special feature on the documentary.
306. 23:43didn't have time to include it in the main part of the movie. But there's just amazing
307. 23:47stories like that of one man really having an impact being used by God in these sorts
308. 23:53of ways. And all of these things, I mean, like they're little battles. This is what confuses
309. 23:57people is like it feels like, well, what's it's just Burger King. It's just one company.
310. 24:02You know, like you didn't solve the whole problem. No, but you made a difference in one spot.
311. 24:07Sure. You did what you could do in one area. And then sometimes what happens is that one
312. 24:11area causes other people to kind of back up and be a little more timid about pursuing the
313. 24:17same things that Burger King had done.
314. 24:18Well, and I know not too many years ago, AFA had a boycott of Target.
315. 24:23That's right.
316. 24:24And I can tell you, my wife never went in a Target again.
317. 24:30Now I realize there may be there have been some change on that, but Target was very
318. 24:35pro-gay and I remember going in stores, we were living in Colorado at the time and
319. 24:40I was working for James Dobson and there were some very objectionable things Target was standing
320. 24:46for and I can tell you, Angie McFarland has never set foot in one of those stores again
321. 24:53and a number of others.
322. 24:55So here's the thing folks.
323. 24:57I do think we have to exercise discernment and where we spend money and spend if we're
324. 25:03going to essentially underwrite something, you know, we don't want to be underwriting
325. 25:09things that mitigate against God, family, truth, America.
326. 25:16And folks, if you're just tuning in, Alex McFarlane here sitting in for Abe Hamilton III with me
327. 25:22in the studio is Bert Harper.
328. 25:24And not only is Bert the co-host of Exploring the Word, he and I have our third book out,
329. 25:29which is the, it was the premium gift for the Shareathon this week.
330. 25:35But you can get that book, it's 100 Bible questions on prophecy and the end times if you go to
331. 25:41afa.net.
332. 25:43We'd appreciate you to pray for the release of that book and then MD Perkins, you've got
333. 25:48resources and the book Dangerous Affirmation and I want to get to this area that is really
334. 25:57where the battle rages.
335. 25:59The battle for morals and gender and sexuality.
336. 26:02But before we leave the subject of Don Wildman, I remember when I worked for Focus on the Family.
337. 26:12Just this year, Dr. Don Wildman died earlier in 25, wasn't it?
338. 26:17Was it this year?
339. 26:18It was December of 23.
340. 26:19It was the very end of 23.
341. 26:21The end of 23 was it?
342. 26:22Yeah.
343. 26:23Okay, so it was farther back than I was.
344. 26:24Well, this year James Dobson passed away.
345. 26:27But I remember when I worked out there 22 years ago, he was routine late.
346. 26:33Dr. Dobson was routinely on the phone with either Don Wildman or Jerry Falwell or James
347. 26:40Kennedy or Bill Bright or Phyllis Laffley.
348. 26:45There were, or Adrian Rogers who was at one time, board chair of focus.
349. 26:51But what do you think about in the late 70s as America began to kind of almost lose her
350. 27:00soul?
351. 27:02God raised up leaders didn't he?
352. 27:051977 is the date and that's the founding of several of these ministries and they have
353. 27:11to do first with faith and family.
354. 27:14Okay.
355. 27:15came and they were under attack, the family severely under attack, faith under attack,
356. 27:22and these leaders that God raised up, he raises them up from a burden.
357. 27:27I used this earlier.
358. 27:29There's three calls of the prophets in the Old Testament, a burden, a vision, and a word.
359. 27:36So you put those together.
360. 27:39All of these people had a burden for the direction America was going, okay, inclusive in the world.
361. 27:45So God sees the world.
362. 27:48He doesn't have tunnel vision on America.
363. 27:50We just need to understand that.
364. 27:52But America is so significant that that was important.
365. 27:57Second then, after he gave him a burden,
366. 27:59he gave him a vision.
367. 28:01We've got to make a difference.
368. 28:03And then the word came of examples.
369. 28:06This is what you do.
370. 28:08Focus started that way.
371. 28:11National Federation for D.C.
372. 28:13American Family Association started that way and you look all the way to D. James Kennedy,
373. 28:18you find out that's where it started and the burden comes first. The burden comes and
374. 28:25talking with Don as I knew him and got to know him, that was the burden of his heart early
375. 28:31on family. You remember what he was doing? He was sitting around trying to find something
376. 28:36for his family and what did he find?
377. 28:39He found his faith was under attack
378. 28:42which would undermine the family.
379. 28:45And so those are the areas that were started
380. 28:47and yes, he stepped out in faith, got a word from God.
381. 28:51Yeah, you need to do this and he did it.
382. 28:53And now we have American Family Association.
383. 28:56MD, you wrote the book Dangerous Affirmation,
384. 28:59the subtitle, I'd like you to comment on
385. 29:02if you would the threat of gay Christianity.
386. 29:06Now, if you believe the Bible folks, you know that the term gay Christianity would be an oxymoron.
387. 29:14Yes.
388. 29:15Contradictory.
389. 29:16Yes.
390. 29:17Incompatible.
391. 29:18Absolutely.
392. 29:19And yet, it was very necessary that you create this book.
393. 29:23It's a fantastic book, very well done.
394. 29:26Tell us about the premise and the content of your work.
395. 29:30Well, that's why I put the word gay Christianity in quotes,
396. 29:34because it's not a real thing,
397. 29:36but it does describe a current movement that exists
398. 29:39within the culture and within the church
399. 29:41to try and reconcile the Christian faith
400. 29:44and homosexuality, which of course,
401. 29:46they cannot be reconciled,
402. 29:48at least if you're gonna read the Bible consistently
403. 29:50with what the Bible actually teaches,
404. 29:52but yet there are many attempts to do this,
405. 29:55and we've seen it across the mainline churches
406. 29:58have become gay affirming in their stance.
407. 30:01Even conservative churches have started
408. 30:04to embrace something called side B or re-voice ideology.
409. 30:08This concept that you can adopt a gay identity,
410. 30:11even though you're saying I'm refraining from practicing
411. 30:14homosexual behavior.
412. 30:16So it sounds good at first until you
413. 30:19start to realize that it's still embracing aspects
414. 30:22of the homosexual construct.
415. 30:24And it's still a promotion of that.
416. 30:27And then even on the more wicked side of things
417. 30:31is queer theology, which is just seeking to eradicate
418. 30:34all sorts of boundaries and borders
419. 30:36and just be transgressive and shocking
420. 30:38and really revolting to just normal people
421. 30:42in order to make homosexuality seem more palatable.
422. 30:46And so that's what I'm dealing with in the book
423. 30:49is there's a theological component of
424. 30:53how should we think about this
425. 30:55in light of what the scripture teaches,
426. 30:57and all the different questions that are there
427. 30:59from scripture, and then historically,
428. 31:01how did we get here?
429. 31:02What are some of the movements that have happened
430. 31:04in culture and society that have shaped the way
431. 31:06that people think about homosexuality, sexual orientation,
432. 31:10even that word homosexuality, kind of has a very particular
433. 31:13political motive in order to internalize homosexual feelings
434. 31:18and to make a person a homosexual,
435. 31:20rather than just someone who is acting out a certain way.
436. 31:25and all of these sorts of things.
437. 31:27To what degree is there the assumption
438. 31:31that people are genetically born gay?
439. 31:34Well, that has been disproven,
440. 31:35but it still continues to be bandied about out there.
441. 31:39Like people seem to just have this inherent assumption
442. 31:42that somehow you're born gay and that you can't change.
443. 31:44And now there's a born trans.
444. 31:47Right, even though that's the whole trans movement
445. 31:50is built on the idea that gender is fluid.
446. 31:52I don't know how you can be born trans when gender is fluid at the same time.
447. 31:57It's incompatible and that's what I'm also trying to point out in the book.
448. 32:00Folks, this is the Hamilton Corner.
449. 32:02Alex McFarland, Bert Harper, MD Perkins, his book, Dangerous Affirmation, the threat of gay
450. 32:07Christianity.
451. 32:09You must read this book.
452. 32:11I'm sorry we have to get up to speed on issues like this, but folks, we are in a battle.
453. 32:17Don Wollman knew it.
454. 32:18We are in a battle and we must take our place to stand for truth.
455. 32:22We have a brief break.
456. 32:23One more big segment.
457. 32:25Stay with us.
458. 32:26We're back after this.
459. 32:31Children of course are given to parents by God, not to the state.
460. 32:37Children don't belong to the state and we need to make sure that those lines are very
461. 32:41clearly protected and increasingly secularized culture where the government has not only tried
462. 32:49to make the church completely irrelevant, but basically replace parents.
463. 32:54Jenna Ellis in the morning, weekdays at 7c on American Family Radio.
464. 32:58The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at EFR.net.
465. 33:10Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
466. 33:15Welcome back to the program.
467. 33:16Hope you're having a blessed day.
468. 33:18I hope you're planning to be in church on Sunday.
469. 33:21Do that.
470. 33:23even if you've never been to church in a long time, find the house of God on Sunday and
471. 33:29be in church. And of course by all means if you've never asked Christ into your heart,
472. 33:34we always say this that Jesus is as close by as a prayer. He really is. And if you're
473. 33:39a believer and I hope you are, understand, and this is what we're trying to get across,
474. 33:45you have a role to play in the battle for truth. You really do. God will use you. And you have
475. 33:50have no idea how your stand for truth can influence others and nudge people to that which
476. 33:58is good and right and true. Don Weilman did that today. One man's obedience is really
477. 34:05touching America and beyond every day of the week. And we give God the glory for that.
478. 34:11MD before the break we were talking about how these assumptions, these presuppositions
479. 34:19that people are born gay that
480. 34:22you know it's amazing to me uh... in bert to the bible is so clear
481. 34:27i mean even if people were born gay which they're not and i said that
482. 34:32uh... having done a master's in developmental psychology from liberty
483. 34:36and i i had
484. 34:37uh... faculty in my master's program
485. 34:40in fact one faculty member from uc l a medical school in california
486. 34:45and we spent a whole semester
487. 34:47Now, granted, this was 29 years ago, but we spent a whole semester studying how it is abuse,
488. 34:56molestation, it is pain and trauma that cause people to mitigate toward same-sex attraction,
489. 35:06gender confusion, deviantcy, and a whole semester on ministering to the people that are tempted
490. 35:13toward deviant behaviors and it was always a result of abuse. It's not genetics, it's
491. 35:21environment. People are not born gay or born trans. It's a means of trying to deal with
492. 35:29pain. Now, is that what your research is showing these days?
493. 35:35Yes, that would be consistent with the things that I've researched as well. And there's a
494. 35:40number of studies on this and this isn't purely a Christian argument. I mean there's
495. 35:43secular scholars who are making this point like you said. But the other thing that I discovered
496. 35:49in this is that what gay activists found is that it's a very useful tool politically to
497. 35:57claim that someone is born gay because then it moves homosexuality into a civil rights
498. 36:01category. It makes a new class of person that must be protected and extolled and celebrated
499. 36:08so that certain laws can be passed,
500. 36:10certain legislation can come to the fore,
501. 36:12certain Supreme Court decisions can come down the line
502. 36:16that have long lasting implications in reshaping society.
503. 36:21So yes, even though the science completely
504. 36:24and utterly disproves it, it's still very politically useful.
505. 36:27And so it will continue to be that
506. 36:29until all of their gains are made
507. 36:31and then people will kind of devolve
508. 36:33into just living by whatever desires they have
509. 36:36and however they want to identify,
510. 36:38and the chaos will continue to kind of spill out.
511. 36:43Has the political battle, because you're right,
512. 36:45and folks, listen to this,
513. 36:47behavior in the LGBTQ trans lobby,
514. 36:54behavior is an ethnicity.
515. 36:58And this falls.
516. 37:00I mean, a man decides that he's going to identify as a woman.
517. 37:05Well, that's a mindset and a behavior, but that is not an ethnicity.
518. 37:12And so people need to understand that.
519. 37:15But the political battles, have they been lost or is there still a window of opportunity
520. 37:24to make a difference?
521. 37:25Well, we have seen some promising cultural shifts in the last couple of years because
522. 37:31quite frankly, I think you've probably seen this too, Alex, and I know you have
523. 37:34Bert. The transgender movement has really overplayed its hand because what is it
524. 37:40arguing against? It's arguing against basic biology, basic terminology, grammar, the
525. 37:46English language. I mean what people have been taught and seeped in their whole
526. 37:51life and we just inherently know that there's a difference between men and women.
527. 37:55It doesn't take long to teach. You don't have to really teach children that
528. 37:59because they sense it. If a boy is a boy, he behaves differently. He wants different things.
529. 38:07He's more energetic and all of these different things. We just don't have to teach that. We know it.
530. 38:11And so you have to receive extra levels of education in order to brainwash you out of that same...
531. 38:19You mean indoctrination?
532. 38:20Yeah, you could call it that. Yeah, exactly.
533. 38:22You know, when you hear that in creation, the Bible's about creation, and then the fall,
534. 38:28in redemption. If you had to put it in three big categories that would be it. Now
535. 38:33what happens in there's always a turning from in order for redemption to happen
536. 38:39is called we turn from our sin and turn to God in repentance. In creation we turn
537. 38:47from our true identity into a false identity. So in order for that to happen
538. 38:54they have to turn from.
539. 38:56And you guys were talking about the pain,
540. 38:58the difficulties that of homosexuality or even trans,
541. 39:02they're turning from who they are in creation
542. 39:06and turning to something.
543. 39:09And when that happens, you're going against
544. 39:12what God made us for.
545. 39:14And so that is the battle.
546. 39:16It's a true battle of identity, isn't it?
547. 39:18Yeah, well, I mean, that's Paul's point in Romans 1,
548. 39:20is that humans wanted to serve the creature
549. 39:24rather than the creator.
550. 39:25And so that statement is the precursor
551. 39:29to then the example that he uses of homosexuality
552. 39:33and going against nature.
553. 39:35So you're right there, Bert.
554. 39:36I mean, that's what it is.
555. 39:37You know, it's funny.
556. 39:40It was not funny, but ironic how much
557. 39:43the non-binary mindset has infected
558. 39:50the world when elected leaders in academics and many young people that have been very impressionable,
559. 39:57they'll say, you know, you can't define what a woman is or isn't.
560. 40:02MD, do you feel like the church has not only an opportunity but really an obligation to
561. 40:10call people back to sanity and truth?
562. 40:13Absolutely.
563. 40:14I mean, not just an obligation to call people back to truth, but also an obligation to be
564. 40:18there with compassion and the hope of the gospel.
565. 40:23I was just having this conversation with Steve
566. 40:25Jordall, one of our newsmen over here in American Family News,
567. 40:29because he had sent me a study about how those who are
568. 40:31detransitioning suddenly find themselves at odds with the
569. 40:35larger LGBTQ plus quote unquote community.
570. 40:39Even though they're saying that I'm trying to live
571. 40:43consistent with my biological sex, they're not making this
572. 40:45transition even for spiritual or ideological reasons, they've just found the dead and street of transgender
573. 40:51medicine to be a false ideology and they don't want to pursue that anymore. Why can't someone
574. 40:58pursue that and still have community within that? Well, because it's not a true community. But
575. 41:03you know, Christian should be there with the hope of the gospel for people who are detransitioning,
576. 41:08even though it's messy, even though it may not be motivated initially by spiritual reasons.
577. 41:14but we can bring the hope and healing of the gospel of Jesus Christ to bear in those sorts of situations
578. 41:19where someone is finding themselves isolated and alone. And I think there will be many such
579. 41:24refugees of the sexual revolution who are ripe for the gospel, ripe for the message and the hope
580. 41:29and healing of Christ if we are going to be ready there as the church to be Christ's hands and feet.
581. 41:36Bert, let me ask you this. You've pastored. You've met God as you so much. I've just admired
582. 41:43the way you minister. But what do you say to the people out there that they want to speak
583. 41:49truth, they want to stand for what the word of God clearly says, and frankly to advocate
584. 41:55for the best welfare of people. What advice do you have for Christians and church leaders?
585. 42:01Honestly, what you have, the truth will set you free. Now we know ultimate truth is Jesus
586. 42:06Christ, the true truths. But truths will help you get there. So what they're doing, they're
587. 42:13trying to say, yeah, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. But they, many of them are
588. 42:19refusing to deal with the truths that is taught in the Word of God, even by Jesus when he
589. 42:24said a man should leave a woman and cleave unto his wife. I mean, male and female. So listen,
590. 42:31You just the Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper and knee to a sword.
591. 42:36So man, when I was preaching, I didn't have a sermon on just what was going on, but illustrations.
592. 42:44When you talk about marriage, you do talk about it being a man and a woman.
593. 42:49But while you're doing that, you bring in that means it's not between two people of
594. 42:54the same sex.
595. 42:56Now I hear teachers talk about it,
596. 42:58but they won't dare make those kind of statements.
597. 43:01But you do it all the time on exploring the word.
598. 43:03Let me, here's one of the statements in the day,
599. 43:06let me tell you what it's not.
600. 43:08Yeah, Alex does it so well.
601. 43:11And so what you do when these are preaching
602. 43:13and you talk about your identity,
603. 43:15let me tell you what it's not.
604. 43:17If you wanna talk about marriage,
605. 43:18let me tell you what it is not.
606. 43:21And that way you're not, you are speaking truth
607. 43:25And you need to do that, but sometimes they need to hear what it is not.
608. 43:30I love this illustration.
609. 43:33You know, counterfeit money.
610. 43:34I understand that when the Treasury trains those people who are looking for counterfeit,
611. 43:41they don't look at all the counterfeits to find out what all they're doing.
612. 43:45Guess what?
613. 43:46They look at the real thing and know the quality of it so well that when they see something
614. 43:52that is counterfeit, they know it.
615. 43:55So we preach the truth in every area.
616. 43:58So that, and we are young people from young,
617. 44:01so that when they see what it's not,
618. 44:03they'll know it is not.
619. 44:05It's the same way with artists.
620. 44:07You have these people who are experts on someone's work,
621. 44:12and there'll be someone who has put up a false painting,
622. 44:15and they signed it, and they've tried to look at it
623. 44:18and make it look real because they're so good.
624. 44:20but when they have a fake Mona Lisa, okay?
625. 44:23The person who's the expert in that feel
626. 44:25can look at it and see, that's not the real deal.
627. 44:28Could I add something to this conversation?
628. 44:31Because there's another thing, I think,
629. 44:33on the pastoral side to add to what you were saying,
630. 44:35Bert, which was excellent.
631. 44:37The reality is sin is both sophisticated and deceptive,
632. 44:41and that there are sins underneath these other sins.
633. 44:44You know, you're talking about issues of identity
634. 44:47and homosexuality and behavior and desire and all that.
635. 44:50But underneath that,
636. 44:51there's root sense of bitterness, envy, pride,
637. 44:55self-righteousness.
638. 44:56And those are sins, frankly, we all struggle with.
639. 45:00However you identify.
640. 45:01And those are sins that need to be rooted out
641. 45:04just as much as homosexuality.
642. 45:06And so that's something we all go to the same cross
643. 45:09and we're all equal at the foot of the cross.
644. 45:11And we all need the same savior.
645. 45:13And we all need to repent and believe the gospel again and again.
646. 45:16That's a perfect segue to something I wanted to ask you
647. 45:19because, you know, like in first Corinthians six,
648. 45:2210 and following, well, first Corinthians six, nine,
649. 45:26and following, there's a list of sins
650. 45:29that must be repented of to see the kingdom of heaven.
651. 45:33And just like while we would call out homosexual activity,
652. 45:39we also would preach against heterosexual promiscuity.
653. 45:44And so we're not singling out a sin.
654. 45:46Now here's the question.
655. 45:47Andy Stanley and others have talked about,
656. 45:50there's a term that he's called, clobber verses.
657. 45:52Right.
658. 45:54What is that and why is that not how we want
659. 45:58to handle the word of God?
660. 46:00That's just a way to kind of silence Christians
661. 46:03whenever they want to bring the Bible into this discussion.
662. 46:05That's purely what it is.
663. 46:07It's just the passages in scripture
664. 46:08that clearly talk against homosexuality.
665. 46:12And there's several in Leviticus, there's 1 Corinthians,
666. 46:17there's one in Timothy, and in Romans one, of course.
667. 46:21It's just the handful of passages that talk about this.
668. 46:24And it's an attempt to get that out of the conversation
669. 46:27as if that's somehow inapplicable or irrelevant.
670. 46:32But the law of God is always relevant
671. 46:33because it's the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.
672. 46:36It shows us our need.
673. 46:37It shows us the perfect standard
674. 46:39and the fact that we don't live up to it.
675. 46:40So if you want to remove the law, then good luck having the gospel because you can't
676. 46:45get there without the law.
677. 46:47Let me add what you said earlier about those underlying things.
678. 46:54Depressions real, all those things they're real deal.
679. 46:57You have to deal with two things that usually those underlying things is unmet expectations.
680. 47:05And the second one is unhealed broken relationships.
681. 47:11When you apply that to the pain, when you look at the pain someone's under, it's usually
682. 47:16one of those unmet expectations.
683. 47:19They were expecting this from a spouse or a parent.
684. 47:24Those two things, and if you don't deal with that and you let bitterness come in, you're
685. 47:29You're setting yourself up, as you said earlier, to go deeper into it, to try to cover it up
686. 47:35and make themselves feel better about these root issues.
687. 47:40We're almost out of time and there's so much more I want to ask each one of you.
688. 47:45Folks, if there is a cultural flashpoint that you must speak about, your church must
689. 47:52take a biblical stand for, it's to stand with what God says about morals, gender, human sexuality,
690. 47:59The book Dangerous Affirmation, it's a fantastic resource that will equip you the threat of
691. 48:06gay Christianity, the author, right here in the studio with this MD Perkins.
692. 48:11Thank you, sir.
693. 48:12Thank you.
694. 48:13And we look forward to all the great work you're doing.
695. 48:15Part of the EFA website where people can find your work.
696. 48:17Yeah, dangerousaffirmation.net to get the book and culturewarrior.movie to go watch the movie
697. 48:22about Don Woman.
698. 48:23Wonderful.
699. 48:24Bert, you and I have the privilege every afternoon of being an unexploring word.
700. 48:28God bless you.
701. 48:29Thanks for listening to the Hamilton Corner, Alex Mafarlin, staying staying, staying strong,
702. 48:34stay bold, speak truth.
703. 48:39The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
704. 48:44Family Association or American Family Radio.