September 19, 2025 · 48:48

Dr. Renton Rathbun, host of The Renton Rathbun Show, returns to “The Corner.”

Bible & Theology

Show notes

0:00 - 15:00. Romans 12:1-2 (NASB95). Peculiarity for the Christ-follower must be normative. 15:00 - 31:00. Dr. Renton Rathbun, host of The Renton Rathbun Show, returns to “The Corner.” 31:00 - 48:00. Charlie Kirk’s murder has thrust our nation into a turning point. youtube.com/@TheRentonRathbunShow?reload=9 or call: 800-326-4543 To donate call : 877-616-2396

References & links

Phone lines mentioned

800-326-4543
877-616-2396

Full transcript Auto-generated · 8,016 words

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
0:06This is the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
0:18And the philosophies of this world.
0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
0:24Even in this dark moment.
0:26Let's not miss our moment.
0:28And now the Hamilton Corner.
0:31Good evening everyone.
0:34Welcome to the Hamilton Corner here on American Family Radio.
0:37I am your host Abraham Hamilton.
0:39The third joined by the real James Mac often imitated never duplicated.
0:45Read it a rock and roll with today's edition of the program at this very moment.
0:51Many of you, if not most of you are making your transition from your part time jobs where
0:55you generate an income to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
1:00As you do so, I want to remind you to do so with intentionality.
1:06Intentionality.
1:07There is no such thing as an accidental disciple.
1:12You know, nobody's walking down the street,
1:14where you going, man, I'm going across your door.
1:16You're going across your door, man.
1:18I'm gonna give you some back of water.
1:19You need to get it back of water.
1:20Oh, oh, man, you never leave me.
1:22I became a disciple.
1:25Never does it happen that way.
1:27Discipleship is a product of intentionality.
1:30Jesus commanded his disciples to make disciples of all nations.
1:35He instructed them to do so upon his authority,
1:39and he said that he would be with his disciples until the end of the age.
1:47The command to make disciples is one that applies to every generation of Christians.
1:55In order to facilitate the execution of his command, God blessed us
2:00with human institutions, the first of which he formed, was the family before the New Testament
2:06Church, before modern iterations of civil government, the Lord established the family
2:11with marriage at the center. The first command God gave to mankind, he gave within the familial
2:18context. He did so intentionally so that we would understand and embrace his vision for his kingdom
2:26and his agenda for his kingdom, for which marriage is at the center. Family is at the center. Family
2:37is not peripheral to God's agenda for his kingdom. It is central to his kingdom agenda, which is why
2:47I want to remind you that what goes on in your house is far more important than what goes on
2:53in the White House. If you study the Scriptures, Deuteronomy 6, for example, one
2:58of the foremost ingredients for disciple making is that it takes time. It takes
3:03time. One of the great challenges to the disciple making phenomenon is when we
3:09outsource the mind and heart cultivation to people who do not share our conviction
3:16and our commitment to obey the Lord's command to make disciples. And we find
3:20ourselves working against ourselves.
3:25But we must consider what God's ordinances are when we decide how we're going to use our
3:33time.
3:34And especially if you're in the life stage where you have young children who are still
3:38in your home, guys, the simple reality is that we only have one shot at this.
3:44We only have our children in our home for so long.
3:48And then after the question is whether or not our children will be effective disciples of
3:55the Lord Jesus Christ in light of our example in investment or in spite of our examples and
4:00investment in them.
4:02That's the question we all have to wrestle with.
4:05It doesn't require perfection.
4:06It doesn't require a particular gift set.
4:08I've had conversations with people say, well Abe, I don't do this the way you do this.
4:13I don't have this capacity to whether you have this capacity.
4:15And here's the beautiful thing, man.
4:17knew how he made you and he brought your children to the world through you. You have what your
4:26children need. I have what my children need. God doesn't want you to try to be a clone of
4:32anybody else. He wants you to be you submitted to his lordship and committed to obeying him.
4:41So as you're making your way to your full-time jobs, man, do so with intentionality.
4:46You know, wanted the most important ingredients that we seek to employ in my family is that
4:53we worship the Lord together as a family in our home.
4:57You know, we sing hymns together, we break open the Word of God, the bread of life together.
5:02It doesn't have to be this long drawn out service, you know, you can sing one hymn and
5:09just read the scripture together.
5:13The cumulative effect of that over time is that you have all of those minutes that turn
5:19to hours over the course of their adolescence, moving toward young adulthood to where you
5:26spent so much of your family life exalting the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and
5:31having the demonstrable commitment.
5:33Meaning that by my actions I've shown you that a priority for our family is worshiping
5:39the Lord.
5:41As you've heard me say numerous times that worship is not merely an activity, it's a lifestyle.
5:45And the pinnacle of the lifestyle of worship is obedience. Let us see to obey the Lord in all that we do.
5:51To the word of God we go, Romans 12.
5:54I offer this by way of reminder, the Apostle Paul is writing to the church at Rome
6:01as the Spirit of God is leading him and he writes in verse 1,
6:04and therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God,
6:08to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice
6:13acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship,
6:17and do not be conformed to this world,
6:21but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,
6:24so that you may prove what the will of God is,
6:28that which is good and acceptable and perfect, perfect.
6:38The life of a disciple of Jesus Christ should consist of the continued examination of ideologies, thought processes that have been derived from the world around us.
6:54And they should be examined in light of the white-hot scrutiny of God's Word.
7:01that consistent employment of this examination
7:09is the means by which we comply with verse two,
7:13refusing to be conformed to the world around us.
7:18It means we should think about
7:21how do we decide to rear our children?
7:24I know their ideas in the world.
7:26Let's see what the word of God says.
7:27How will we educate our children?
7:31I know there are things and ideas that the world says,
7:34even some things that I might remember from my parents,
7:36but I need to examine them in light of what the word says.
7:40How should I seek to function with economics using money?
7:48The resources that God entrusted to my care,
7:50does the scripture have anything to say about that?
7:52How should I go about our relationships, friendships?
7:56What should I look for?
7:57I know there are things that are common in the world,
7:58but does the scripture have anything to say about that?
8:01The word of God should apply to all manners,
8:04matters of life, doctrine and practice. But what happens,
8:09unfortunately, is that we have some professing believers who
8:16either refuse or neglect to do this very thing, and we end up
8:21finding ourselves just comfortably easing into and fitting
8:25into the prevailing cultural expectations and norms. And the
8:36practical effect of that is you have many professing believers
8:40who are really uncomfortable being peculiar.
8:46You know, we had a meeting with the men in our church
8:51just this week, and we invited the men
8:53to bring the teenage sons to the men's meeting
8:56because we had several meetings discussing
9:00the father's role in our children's romantic pursuits
9:05with sons and daughters.
9:06The subscription everything they say about that.
9:08How should we navigate that?
9:09And so as we came to a landing point with the fathers,
9:13we said, man, let's bring our sons in and have conversations about this.
9:16And one of the brothers mentioned,
9:18say, man, you know this, this, this is a peculiar approach.
9:21This will even be peculiar amongst Christians.
9:24And I smiled.
9:27And I said, let's lean into that a little bit.
9:31Let's think about that.
9:31Why is that?
9:32Why would this be peculiar amongst Christians?
9:37In many ways, professing believers approach the concept of romantic pursuits,
9:43the way to the world does around us.
9:46And my simple question is, have we examined this
9:48in light of scripture?
9:49That's the only question I'm asking.
9:53Because this journey of sanctification and the following,
9:56the Lord, it really can be described as the Lord showing us
9:59additional areas of our lives where we really have been
10:01conformed to the way of the world around us.
10:06Instead of being transformed by the renewal of our minds.
10:10And the additional question that I would ask
10:17is whether we are comfortable with being peculiar
10:20or do we derive our comfort from being
10:27quote unquote normal according to the world standards.
10:33When I search the scripture, I don't see it
10:34as being a remarkable phenomenon to have an expectation
10:39that our children remain chased until they're married.
10:42Now I know what the world says, you know?
10:46I know was like growing up in the world in Louisiana
10:49a Berber Street is the norm. But if I'm a Christ follower, should my norm be the
10:54prevalence of the culture around me? Should Lise la Bonto Rule be my
10:59expectation for myself and for my children? Or do I may have been born and
11:04raised in La Nouvelle, Oléon? Just like that first. La Nouvelle, Oléon. I've been
11:13redeemed by the blood of the lamb. So as a result of having been redeemed by the
11:17brother, redeemed by the blood of the lamb, there's a new expectation. There I say
11:22renewed expectation that I should have. I'm using this simply trying to make it
11:30plain what I'm saying. Man, if we are members of the Lord Jesus Christ's bride,
11:37if we are followers of the way of Messiah, we should have an anticipation and
11:42expectation of peculiarity and our comfort level should be derived from
11:49being obedient to Christ, which will inevitably make us peculiar in the
11:55society that surrounds us, but too often.
12:00And you see this very often with artists
12:03and different types of people,
12:04professors be Christians, but they really wanna,
12:06they really wanna have their claim of the world.
12:07And I'm just, I understand that, you know, human beings,
12:10people want money, people want to be celebrated
12:14for their work.
12:16But my question is, shouldn't even our desires be renewed?
12:21Why do I have to have the acclaim of the world
12:25to feel like I am doing well at what I'm doing.
12:30Now I'm not saying if you're being faithful
12:33and the world wanna give you a Grammy for being faithful,
12:35but I kinda wonder if the Lord
12:39I'm sorry if the world is gonna give you a Grammy
12:42for you saying this only one name under heaven
12:44by which men must be saved.
12:47I don't know if you call people the repentance
12:50that they'll give you an Oscar for that.
12:55And I'm not saying they won't,
12:56but I'm just saying for the body of Christ,
12:59desire should be, whether they get that or not, my utmost pursuit is well done.
13:06They'll go and face with service. That's what I'm living for. That's what I'm seeking after.
13:10And so I shouldn't have to have conversations with Christians when I say, man, you know, one of the
13:18things that my wife and I are seeking to do is to help our children walk upright before the Lord,
13:22and that they remain chaste until marriage. I shouldn't have to have a Christian conversation.
13:26Well, hey, that's an unrealistic expectation.
13:31Because that really happened to me before you guys.
13:33I had a purported Christian to tell me
13:36that that was an unrealistic expectation.
13:40And I said, we said, well, isn't that what the scripture
13:45says it's God's expectation?
13:47Should we have a different expectation
13:49than what God says in his word?
13:54Or was it an expression because that was an area
13:59where through this conversation,
14:01God was revealing to this particular person,
14:03that maybe you've been conformed to the world
14:05and your expectations on this point.
14:08What I'm driving towards with all of this guys
14:11is that transformation via minor renewal
14:15should be normative for us.
14:17And that minor renewal should have it to be welcomed for us
14:22to desire and to ascribe to God's standards.
14:27and recognizing that He's called us to be a peculiar people,
14:34that it shouldn't be surprising when our manner of living
14:37kind of directly contravenes to prevalent culture around us.
14:41The Word of God is true in the first, second, and third centuries,
14:48just as it is in the 21st century.
14:50Don't be conformed to the world around you.
14:52Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
14:55Are people basically good?
15:01God says in Romans 3-10,
15:03There is no one righteous, not even one.
15:06This doesn't mean that people are incapable of doing good things.
15:10It means that apart from God, our nature is bent toward self-centeredness, pride, and rebellion.
15:17We don't just make mistakes.
15:19We sinned.
15:20And sin separates us from a holy God.
15:23Read Our People Basically Good by Dr. Alex McFarland at thestand.net
15:29Shiting Light into the Darkness.
15:36This is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
15:40Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner.
15:42I'm delighted to have on the program with me a man,
15:46a brother in Christ who I respect, I love, I appreciate.
15:51He's been a great blessing to me in person and from a distance
15:54through his work and his ministry.
15:56And I was just telling him before we came on the air,
15:58I had the privilege of chatting with his wife
16:00for a long time at the Cultural Proof Conference.
16:03I am speaking of none other than Dr. Renton Rathbun,
16:07who's been a professor for over 25 years,
16:09teaching experience includes both secular
16:11and Christian colleges and universities.
16:13He and his wife homeschooled their son Daniel,
16:16and are now homeschooling their two younger children,
16:18Jude and Olivia.
16:20Dr. Rathbun has spoken for homeschool conventions
16:22and podcasts all over the nation,
16:24including this article right here.
16:26He holds a variety of degrees from a bachelor's in English
16:29and master's degrees in speech, philosophy, and theology,
16:32and a PhD in apologetics.
16:35Dr. Rathbun currently serves as the director
16:37of the Center for Biblical World View
16:39at Bob Jones University,
16:40and he is the illustrious host of the Renton Rathbun Show,
16:44which if you haven't seen it or subscribed to his podcast,
16:48you need to get with it.
16:49Dr. Rathbun, thank you for joining us back here
16:51on the Hamilton Corner.
16:53Well, thank you for that introduction.
16:55I like the illustrious part.
16:56Illustrious, yes.
16:58Illustrious.
16:59Yes, with the unbuttoned top button and loosely fitted tie.
17:05Yes, that is the shtick.
17:07That is the shtick.
17:08You gotta have a shtick.
17:09The shtick.
17:10I gotta work on a shtick.
17:11I don't have a shtick.
17:12I invited you on to the program.
17:16I've been enjoying your podcast.
17:19I have, obviously, I've heard you speak several times.
17:23We've spoken together at several conferences.
17:25Actually, I'm gonna see you next week
17:27at the HSLDA's National Leaders Conference.
17:29That's right.
17:30Yeah.
17:31I'm gonna see you next week.
17:33But I wanted to have you on the show
17:34because as these events have unfolded
17:38with this according to the evidence provided
17:43by the Utah County State Attorney
17:48that this alleged, we have to say alleged, Dr. Rathbun,
17:51alleged murderer of Charlie Kirk
17:54was clearly sexually confused.
17:58had a worldview that I can say this safely appeared to have rivaled the truth of Scripture.
18:06And according to the evidence, he killed, he murdered Charlie Kirk because he disagreed largely
18:12about identity and sexuality. The threshold question for our conversation today that I want to ask you
18:18and kind of walk through with you is where must America go in light of these events.
18:24Boy, boy, that is the question, isn't it?
18:29And this is the issue.
18:31You know, I think they, turning point has received, I think, from what last I heard, and I could
18:40be wrong on this with the numbers, but 50 to 60,000 new startups that people want to be
18:50a part of that.
18:51Yeah, new chapters for the organization.
18:52Yeah, I've heard that.
18:53Yeah.
18:54Same numbers.
18:55And that's fine. I mean, you know, good for people that love politics and want to stand it up and
19:02all that sort of thing. And that's great. But that's not the answer. That's not what's going to save
19:06America. That's not what's going to be our savior. You know, Charlie did a lot of really good things
19:14and, you know, and defended Christ. I mean, all the politics stuff, I don't really feel I'm in the
19:23place to defend or critique all that stuff. I didn't listen to very many of those talks.
19:30I did listen to several talks where he was defending Christ, and that was interesting to
19:34me. But I feel like people like him come up out of the community because we have failed
19:43in the church. The church should be doing this work. The church should be standing up and
19:50speaking for Christ. People should be turning to the church for their direction and help.
19:57And the church should be the ones reaching out to the community saying, how do we handle these
20:04difficult questions about Christianity? The church should be doing that. That's where I think this
20:11that's where the answer is going to be. You can create more chapters and that's fine,
20:16but the real answer has got to be the one that Christ put all of his focus on and said,
20:25this is my body and I am its head and the power is there. It's not that the Republicans of the world
20:35do not challenge the gates of hell. It's the church that goes against the gates of hell and the gates
20:42to hell aren't strong enough to withhold itself from the church.
20:48Mm.
20:50Man, so many thoughts come to mind.
20:52So with the explosion of registrants for chapters
20:56or those who are applying to make chapters,
20:58as you mentioned, to turn to point you as say,
21:00you and I were discussing before we came on the air.
21:06I made the statement that the prevalence
21:08of parachurch ministries exists largely
21:11because of vacuums that are created by the church.
21:15You know, the scripture says the Apostle Paul articulated
21:17that the manifold wisdom of God will be put on display,
21:21would be basically publicized through the church.
21:25The same Apostle Paul wrote that the church
21:27is to be the pillar and ground of truth.
21:31I know just having followed the trajectory
21:34of turning point earlier on,
21:36Charlie Kirk didn't discuss Christ as prevalently
21:40as he did toward the latter part of his life.
21:44It calls to mind,
21:49why is it so often that public advocacy
21:55for Christ public representation of faith in Christ
21:59often comes outside of a church context?
22:02Why has that transpired?
22:05And recognizing that the church is, who Jesus says it is,
22:08How then do we make the adjustments
22:10where the church takes her rightful place
22:13that God has planted us to be salt and light
22:15within the culture he's planted us in,
22:16in particular, in our country?
22:19So in, this actually has a whole history to it.
22:23When you look at the early 20th century,
22:25you see churches or denominations,
22:28if I can put it that way, catering to the customer.
22:33And so the customer was not happy with the typical
22:39or the doxy of the church.
22:42And so you had people pushing back in these denominations saying,
22:47why do we have to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin?
22:49Why do we have to believe that Jesus even was God on earth?
22:53I mean, why do we have to say that sort of stuff?
22:56And then of course, hell starts to be erased completely.
23:01And you have this push to meet the customer,
23:05to get them involved in the church.
23:08Well, you see another group of people watch this happen and they're horrified by it.
23:14Say, this is what happens when you start caring too much about the community.
23:18We've got to isolate ourselves from the community.
23:21And so now you have the reaction to liberals trying to reach the community through a, through
23:27false doctrine.
23:29The reaction is let's isolate ourselves and build a wall around our church and we don't
23:33deal with it with, you know, because that's, this is what happens.
23:37you start getting into the community, you'll become a liberal.
23:41And so for a long time we've had that.
23:45Either you're a liberal and you're reaching out to the community,
23:47or you're a good doctor and you just stay right in your own church
23:51and you have your choirs to preach to.
23:55What we need is to have faith that God's word in all of its
24:01defensiveness and that Christ who will be hated by the world still needs to be brought
24:08out to the community and put on display and have faith that God will bless our work.
24:19I mean, and it's got to, and it may not be interesting.
24:22It may not be super exciting.
24:24It may not be a table that says, you know, change my mind or whatever.
24:28It might be simple things of trying to reach the community,
24:33and it will be with an offensive message,
24:36with an offensive God, if I can put it that way.
24:41But we have got to start working our way
24:45through holding God's word in one hand
24:47and reaching out to the community in the other.
24:49We've got to start doing it.
24:52It seems there is an evident reticent amongst many Christians
24:57Christians to distance themselves from the peculiarity that Christ following requires.
25:04Like you mentioned that the message of the cross is by necessity offensive. Now, our objective is not
25:14to offend. That is not the objective, but the presentation of the gospel should not be one that's
25:21offered with the subscript and avoid offense.
25:25What do you see in terms of and why, I guess, we also see this seeming reticence to frankly
25:34be peculiar?
25:35Well, what I have seen is a lot of pastors have seen pastors do it poorly.
25:45So you'll watch a pastor out there saying all these mean things about maybe the LGBTQ community
25:51and they're like, no, we've got to be gentle.
25:55And that's true.
25:58Actually, being gentle is part of the qualification
26:02of being a pastor in 1 Timothy 3.
26:04And so, yes, we need to be gentle,
26:07but then they take it just a little step further.
26:11We need, gentleness means being accepting.
26:14How do I accept people?
26:17Well, now we get into a word that's really tricky.
26:20How do I be accepting?
26:22Well, what am I accepting?
26:24I can accept a person, but I don't want to accept their sin.
26:28But that's what has occurred.
26:30What we have is a culture that says,
26:33no, my identity is in this thing.
26:36But this thing is sin.
26:38And so if I'm going to accept,
26:40if I'm going to be accepted by you,
26:41you've got to accept this,
26:42or at least a version of this.
26:45And so what we've seen is that they'll say,
26:47okay, well, homosexuality, we know is wrong,
26:50that act. And so I can't accept that. But maybe I can accept that you are same sex attracted
26:58by nature, and that nature is not a sin. And so that same sex attraction is just who you
27:05are. And as long as you don't act on it, I can accept you. And I'll let you keep your identity
27:13in the sin that you have that you found comfort in.
27:18And I will allow you,
27:19and I will accept that you can find comfort in your sin,
27:23and I will give you some comfort in God,
27:25and you can have both.
27:27And I am telling you,
27:29that is where Satan delights the most,
27:33is when we have allowed people to keep
27:35just a little bit of their sin
27:37so that they can be accepted.
27:39What I would say is we need a church that has learned how to love people, love them enough
27:49to say, we want to help you construct yourself towards God.
27:55If you're a Christian and you're still holding on to that same sex attraction because you
28:00still feel your happiness lies in that identity, we do not accept that.
28:07But we love you.
28:08So come with us.
28:10We want to help you if you are interested in, in ridding yourself of sin, we're interested
28:17in helping you do that.
28:19And we will love you all the way through it.
28:23And I don't see why we can't do that.
28:26But what we have is someone saying, well, no one will come to you.
28:30No one's going to come to you if you say that because, because, you know, they're going to,
28:35they believe their same sex attraction is who they are.
28:37And so they're not even going to come to you.
28:39And that's where I say you gotta be faithful and say,
28:42maybe the Lord will bring us the people
28:44and we will love them.
28:47The scripture bears it out, Ecclesiastes discusses
28:50what I described as the God void,
28:52that he said eternity in the hearts of men very often.
28:57And I've had this experience, you know,
28:59I'm born and raised in the Orleans, Louisiana.
29:01I've been a part of evangelistic
29:02outreaches on Bourbon Street.
29:04We've had experiences where you've had people
29:08who would say, this is how I have identified myself,
29:10but I have this drawing that is occurring
29:12and I don't know what to do with it.
29:13And so to walk with people through which you just described,
29:17we love you, but we do not accept your effort to coddle your sin,
29:24nor do we accept your effort to redefine Christianity
29:28in your image because you are not God,
29:32but because we love you, we will call you to repentance
29:35and walk with you in the Christ-oriented direction,
29:39but we will not affirm what Christ refuses to affirm.
29:43But what has occurred in larger,
29:46we can go at some of the macro ideals
29:49that have contributed to this.
29:52Satan's efforts are never promulgated to,
29:55well, I'm going to destroy what you understand as church.
29:58What his efforts are promulgated to accomplish,
30:00especially in our time period,
30:02is an infiltration and a redefinition of what it means
30:06to be church so that you have what God established
30:09to be the pillar and ground of truth.
30:11Now it has a public facing presentation that says,
30:14oh no, what you previously thought was truth
30:17is no longer truth.
30:18Now come with me, this is the way walk you therein.
30:21Do you see anything where I may be off
30:24in that assessment and analysis?
30:26Oh no, that's, let me give you an image
30:32of what I think you're getting at
30:34because I've seen the same thing.
30:36So when I went into the military, I went in in the 90s,
30:41early 90s, it was 1991.
30:44And the first time I was introduced to men
30:49that can show love to you in the most painful way possible
30:55was drill sergeants.
30:57Drill sergeants were, and I thought they hated us.
30:59I mean, I just did because they were so mean.
31:03I mean, they were throwing stuff around.
31:05They were yelling at us, they were making us get up at 4.30
31:09in the morning, they were marching us around,
31:11they were making us do all this workout stuff.
31:14And then, and nothing was ever good enough for them.
31:17We always had to keep pushing and pushing,
31:19but as time went on, what we realized
31:21is they were preparing us for war.
31:25If they were, if they were soft on us,
31:29it would be the most hateful thing you could do to someone
31:32to say I'm gonna prepare you for something that is so awful
31:38and so where things are exploding, people are dying
31:42and you need to learn how to focus and take an order.
31:45And if you can't do.
31:47Let me interrupt you cause the disrespectful music
31:49has come on, we're about to hit a break.
31:51We got about what, 30 seconds to the break, Jeff?
31:54I wanna pick up right from there with your example
31:57with the drill sergeant who are training you for war.
32:01They seem like they hated you, they were mean,
32:04they were never satisfied, but you came to the realization
32:07that they were training you for war.
32:08We'll pick up right there when we come back from this break.
32:12You are listening to and watching if you're watching.
32:15The Hamilton Corner, my guest is Dr. Renton Rathbun
32:18more after this break.
32:31Children, of course, are given to parents by God,
32:36not to the state.
32:37Children don't belong to the state,
32:38and we need to make sure that those lines
32:40are very clearly protected and increasingly secularized culture where the government has
32:47not only tried to make the church completely irrelevant but basically replace parents.
32:54Jenna Ellis in the morning, weekdays at 7 Central on American Family Radio.
33:04The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at aFR.net.
33:10Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
33:15Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third is my name, my guest is
33:19Dr. Renton Rathbun, the director of the Center for Biblical World View at Bob Jones University
33:24and host of the Renton Rathbun Show which you need to subscribe to if you have not done
33:29so already.
33:31Get with it.
33:32All right, Dr. Rathbun, you are in the middle of your story that I, and it's not my fault,
33:37it was a disrespectful music's fault, so we're gonna blame it.
33:41We were in the middle of explaining how your experience in the military is illustrative of
33:47what I was describing about Satan's efforts to infiltrate and redefine what the church
33:52is in order to realign professing believers according to his objective and purposes.
33:59So when we were in these basic training in the 90s, there was this focus.
34:08In fact, a couple of our drill sergeants had served in Vietnam, so they knew what war
34:13could look like.
34:15They knew that they were preparing us for this horrible experience that requires a lot
34:23of focus when there's a lot of pain and a lot of craziness going around.
34:27So they created craziness for us so that we would know how to focus.
34:32They created pain for us, so we knew how to focus our energies towards accomplishing a
34:37mission instead of being overwhelmed by what was going on.
34:43They did that because their belief about what they were preparing us for was very clear
34:49– war.
34:51They understood what that meant.
34:53You fast-forward to the Biden administration and what the military ended up looking like.
35:00by the time Biden was putting all his efforts
35:04into softening the military.
35:07And you see all these limitations on the drill sergeants,
35:11they can't push too hard, they can't yell.
35:15They can't do very much because this might hurt
35:18the hearts of the kids.
35:21And so, are they preparing those kids
35:25for what the reality of war is?
35:27And I would say no, and I would say it's very unloving to do.
35:34Now, what does this have to do with the church?
35:36Well, it depends on what the church believes they,
35:39what they're doing.
35:43If I were Satan, what I would want
35:46is I would want the churches to lose sight of the fact
35:50that they are preparing people for war.
35:52I would want the church to lose sight of the fact
35:55that they're already at war.
35:58lose sight of that.
35:59What you want is a church that believes they're at peace.
36:03And at peace, there's so many things you can do.
36:05I mean, we don't have to,
36:07you know, we don't even have to push these people too much.
36:11We don't have to help them get away from this stuff
36:14because, you know, we're at peace.
36:16This stuff isn't even really that bad.
36:18And people are getting over, you know, over the top,
36:21you know, worried about things and it's not that bad.
36:25And the two things that they've lost
36:27number one that we're at war, that we don't fight, we're not fighting flesh and blood,
36:33we're fighting principalities and powers, powers that have been in place for a long time trying
36:39to destroy what God has created in the church.
36:43And not only that, but we have lost the idea that God is holy.
36:48So we've lost the idea of what our mission is in this war.
36:53And we've lost sight of who our general is, that he is a holy God, and that we have to
37:00respond in kind to a God that is absolutely holy.
37:06Not that he has hoarded his holiness over us, but has actually provided a way for us to
37:11be like him through Christ.
37:14And think of how evil it is.
37:18And someone comes in who wants to hold on to some of their sin.
37:22And there's a way provided for them to let go of their sin.
37:26There is power strong enough for them to let go of their sin.
37:30Because that tiny little bit of sin that they're holding on to is that trespass in their heart.
37:36That's dying to betray their God.
37:40And the best thing you can do for someone is get rid of that thing they're holding on
37:44to.
37:45It will be used by the enemy to betray their God.
37:48And that's how Satan, I think, has changed the church.
37:52He has turned it from what you have described
37:55as a disciple making ministry
37:58into a child coddling kind of club
38:06that makes you feel safe and happy
38:09as they escort you to the gates of hell.
38:11Mm. Mm.
38:16Man, your description and prognosis is, it's dire.
38:25What needs to happen in order for us to be reawakened,
38:30I would say, to the notion that, guys, we are at war.
38:35I mean, here's a great example of what I'm talking about.
38:39Did you hear, and I didn't ask you this beforehand,
38:42so if you didn't see, that's fine.
38:44But did you see that ABC News reporter who described the Utah
38:48County Attorney's Press Conference and said that, oh,
38:51oh, who knew that it was so very touching with between Tyler
38:57Robinson and his sexually confused and identity confused
39:01roommate slash boyfriend and even Montel Williams on CNN
39:06talking about, oh, this was just a hard broken love story.
39:11I mean, that's disgusting.
39:15That's disgusting, but it's indicative as to where we are.
39:20What needs to happen in order to reawaken us
39:23to the fact that yes, we are at war.
39:29I think there's two things that need to happen.
39:33First of all, we need pastors that will be courageous.
39:37And what I mean by that is boring, old-fashioned,
39:44or the doxy, holding to it with all your might,
39:50preaching through a book, not just jumping through topics,
39:53but preaching through books, one verse at a time
39:56to help people understand how to work through their own Bible
40:01and be courageous about it.
40:03The courageous, this is where the courageousness comes in.
40:07When you start seeing people leave,
40:09when you know you could get more people in,
40:13if you just, you know, we're a little easier on this or that.
40:18But this courageousness also has to be your courageousness
40:22of your love for your people.
40:25If you practice strict orthodoxy without love,
40:30you will be this resounding gong
40:33that will be this reminder to everyone
40:35why these old-fashioned churches
40:38that just stick to the Bible are so worthless
40:42because they're so mean there and they don't love anybody.
40:45You have got to have the thing that scripture,
40:48and this is, you know, from my denomination,
40:51you would, you know, I would think that God would find
40:54more and more joy as He tells us to stay close to good doctrine,
40:59good doctrine, good doctrine, and end with good doctrine,
41:02but scripture never ends with good doctrine.
41:05It says you need to have good doctrine and,
41:07and it's always the and and love.
41:10Love is always pushed. How do I love my people and how do the people love each other?
41:16I think that's number one. Good doctrine and unrelenting love for each other at the same time.
41:26And then number two is obey Titus II. We have for so long, Titus II tells us that the older
41:37in the congregation need to mentor the younger.
41:40If you're an older woman in the church,
41:42you should be teaching the younger ladies in the church
41:44how to be good wives and good mothers.
41:46If you're an older man in the church,
41:48you should be teaching young men how to be temperate
41:51and not so crazy and sober minded and not stupid.
41:55But instead, we're so, and this is the big temptation
41:59for a lot of pastors.
42:00We need young people in the church.
42:01We need young people in the church.
42:02We got to get young people in the church.
42:04And that's true.
42:05You do need them in the church.
42:06but this is what you need them for.
42:07You need them to learn.
42:09Learn from the older.
42:11We have treated the older as if they are done.
42:14We don't need them anymore.
42:15We just wait for the home going with these older people.
42:20And they are filled with wisdom,
42:21filled with knowledge of scripture
42:23that they have had in their hearts for years and years
42:27and we have wasted them.
42:29Because we have come to believe
42:30what the culture has told us about old people.
42:34If you don't know how to use a cell phone,
42:36You can't get through the Walmart self-checkout fast enough,
42:39then you're a worthless human being.
42:42And so if you can't understand the technology,
42:44that tells me you are not wise.
42:47And so if I see you savvy to the technology,
42:51maybe I'll listen to you.
42:52And that's not where wisdom is.
42:54We have lost our ability to understand what wisdom is.
42:57And so we have lost our use of the older people in the church.
43:01So if pastors can say to themselves,
43:04How do I love my people better?
43:06How do I stick to God's word with strictness?
43:10And then we can say, how do I use my older people
43:13in the church to minister to the younger?
43:15And I start becoming intentional
43:16about all three of those things.
43:18I think that's where we begin to see a difference.
43:21What you said is so true on so many fronts,
43:26because of the whole, if you're not tech savvy,
43:29if you're not up with the times
43:30and you have no benefit here,
43:33which has led to lots of older people attempting to, you know,
43:36defray their aging and to act like they're younger people, you know,
43:40you see older people trying to wear skinny pants and all these other kind of,
43:44and all this other kind of insanity. But it also requires, as you pointed out,
43:48there needs to be a, a, a deputizing, if you will, um, of our,
43:52our call of our seasoned saints, you know, to say, listen,
43:55not only is there room for you in the church, we need you, we need you.
44:00We need you to understand that there are no big eyes or little
44:03use in the kingdom of God, and you are intrinsic to God's vision
44:07for His kingdom.
44:08It makes me think about Jethro and Moses, where Moses is recounting
44:15all of the exploits that God did in wailing, the Egyptians.
44:20And then Jethro watched Moses as he led the people of Israel.
44:25And it's remarkable to read this.
44:28that Moses doesn't begin operating in really public ministry until he's 80.
44:33You know, he's in his 80s. He's upwards of 80.
44:36And then after Jethro watched him, Jethro was able to interject.
44:40Now this is Moses who the scripture says,
44:42who communed with the Lord face to face as with the man.
44:45This is Moses who led the children of Israel through a Red Sea on dry ground,
44:49a pillar cloud by day, a pillar fire by night,
44:52yet when Jethro spoke, Moses listened.
44:55What was it about Jethro that caused Moses to listen?
44:59And then when Jethro gave him guidance and instruction,
45:03which our James Madison notes at the Constitution Convention,
45:07articulated it set the foundation for our appellate process
45:12in illegal proceedings with the Supreme Court, appellate courts,
45:14and district courts, when Jethro gave Moses advice,
45:18Moses listened in spite of all of his experience with the Lord,
45:22in spite of him having the position as a deliverer,
45:25having this vaunted position in God,
45:27He was able to recognize wisdom and he humbled himself and yielded to that wisdom.
45:33It pinks a picture in my view of exactly what you're talking about as to how the body of Christ in our day has been
45:39underserved terribly because we've kind of been lost in the sauce of the cultural zeitgeist and kind of say well if you don't have, you know,
45:4825 social media pages, then we have no need of you.
45:50Yeah, that's right.
45:54Yeah, and we have redefined influence.
45:58And isn't that one of Satan's little turns that he did to try and change what the church looks like?
46:05How am I going to be influenced?
46:08Because kids today are going to say, I will give you the stipulations of how I'll be influenced.
46:14And it has to be online.
46:16It has to be through a really cool way that they think is neat.
46:20neat and it has to be in the way they want it.
46:24You know, I know that there's always been people say,
46:28well, if you want my respect, you have to earn it type thing.
46:30And I understand what that means.
46:34And I know that you don't just give your respect away
46:36just to anybody, but that has become the mantra of this,
46:41of this, not just this culture, but this generation coming up,
46:46that if I'm going to respect you, it will be on my terms
46:49and you will meet those terms.
46:50If you do not meet those terms, I will not respect you.
46:53And Satan delights in that because again,
46:56I think there has been a vacuum in the church teaching kids.
47:00These are the qualifications for someone to influence you.
47:04And they're from scripture.
47:06And you need to love that.
47:08And when you see someone with those qualifications
47:11from scripture, then you go for it.
47:13Mm-hmm.
47:14So well said.
47:16So well said.
47:18And it really, it comes full circle back
47:22to really where we started our conversation,
47:25say what you want, but the word of God is true.
47:28And while I am grateful for Parachurch Ministries,
47:32I mean, the American Family Association
47:34is a Parachurch ministry.
47:36The scripture says that the church
47:39is the pilgrim ground of truth.
47:40And so if there are people who are questioning
47:43where, questioning where America must go, what we need.
47:45Frankly, we need a vibrant, thriving church
47:49with unwavering commitment to the truth of scripture,
47:52biblical orthodoxy and sound doctrine
47:54and simultaneously unwavering commitment to loving people.
48:00The scripture says,
48:01Behold Jesus filled with mercy and truth,
48:05not one or the other, but both and.
48:07And it may not be, you know, attractive is not the quote
48:10quote sexy thing, but it's nevertheless the true thing that we need. Dr. Rathman, thank
48:14you so much for joining me here on the Hamilton Corner and I look forward to seeing you in here
48:18and you speak next week at HSLDA Home School Legal Defense Association's National Leaders
48:24Conference. Thanks for having me. Absolutely my pleasure. Alright folks, until next time,
48:31continue to fight the good fight. Get off the couch for ministry, still taking applications.
48:39The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
48:44Family Association or American Family Radio.

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