September 18, 2025 · 50:48

M.D. Perkins, AFA Research Fellow of Church and Culture, returns to “The Corner” to discuss Free Speech Double Standards.

Bible & TheologyCulture & Media

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0:00 - 15:00. Acts 4:13-20. Speaking is central to Christ-following. 15:00 - 31:00. M.D. Perkins, AFA Research Fellow of Church and Culture, returns to “The Corner” to discuss Free Speech Double Standards. 31:00 - 48:00. If words are violence and disagreement is hate, then there is no longer any room for persuasion. | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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1-800-326-4543 ext. 345
877-616-2396

Full transcript Auto-generated · 8,734 words

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0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
0:18And the philosophies of this world.
0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
0:24Even in this dark moment.
0:26Let's not miss our moment.
0:28And now the Hamilton Corner.
0:33Good evening, everyone.
0:34Welcome to the Hamilton Corner.
0:35My name is Abraham Hamilton the third joined by the corner contingent right across from
0:40me today is our friendly neighborhood, Woodaholic, perpetually in recovering none other than
0:46Mr. Marty Sparks.
0:48Ladies and gentlemen, we are joined by a produced extraordinaire often imitated, never duplicated
0:53the real Jay Mac is in the building.
0:55we're ready to rock and roll with today's edition of the program at this very moment.
1:01Many of you, if not most of you are making your transition from your part time jobs where
1:05you generate an income to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
1:09And as you do so, I want to remind you to do so with intentionality.
1:16Understanding the primacy that God places on family, welcoming that primacy to guide and
1:21govern your engagement and recognizing that what goes on in your house is far more important
1:28than what goes on in the White House. I continue to beat that drum because with all of the things
1:33that are happening and swirling all around us, it's very easy to be so consumed by those
1:38things where we can neglect what is happening in our homes. I want to remind you, if you are
1:45in the life stage with young children in your home, this is not a forever stage.
1:49On one hand, some of you are like,
1:52whoa, thank you Lord.
1:53On the other hand, some of you are like,
1:56whoa, that which I must do, I must do swiftly.
2:00Because this is one of the things where we only have one shot.
2:03And so I offer this encouragement daily
2:06to invite you to take full advantage of the opportunity
2:09and the time that you have.
2:12There are lots of things you can do,
2:14but this one thing we have been commanded to do,
2:16every believer is called to execute the Lord's commission.
2:19If you have the privilege of having young ones in your home,
2:22you have the opportunity to execute that right at home,
2:26not neglecting other places, other contexts, other stages,
2:30but certainly, certainly not stepping over those in your immediate vicinity
2:35in an effort to win the world.
2:37You know, I reflect on this and I now have two teenagers in my own house.
2:42Goodness gracious, when did that happen?
2:44When did that happen?
2:47And it just shows, man, that time is of the essence.
2:51We have to make sure we take advantage of what we have before us.
2:56The first human institution to God established was the family.
2:59The first command that God gave to mankind was issued within the familial context.
3:06Certainly, I want to be informed.
3:08I keep up with things that are happening.
3:10That's part of my job, of course.
3:13But I don't want my national giving attention to national affairs to cause me to be absent,
3:24absent-minded or neglectful in my home will never be able to out-politik
3:33deficiencies that abound in the home that's just a simple fact that's just a
3:37simple fact. And if each family, each home, one person at a time, one family at a time
3:47will take the responsibility to obey what God commanded us to do in our
3:51families man. There's no telling. There's no telling what could happen in our
3:55country. It's no telling. The press of the world very often is to get us to divert that
4:02attention to give significance to everything else. Everything outside of the home is so important.
4:07Everything all over the country is so important. Everything on all the world is so important.
4:11But some of us don't have a clue within our own children's cell phones. I'm not even going to get
4:17on the fact should they really even have a oh yeah we call them cell phones but they really are
4:24microcomputers that have texting and calling features, but the main thrust of what is done
4:31with them, and necessarily calling to something to consider to the Word of God we go.
4:39Acts 4, Acts 4, I want to begin the program here.
4:46This is a foundational concept, but I don't think many of us recognize why this should
4:53be foundational to us individually and more importantly to our body politic because the
5:00scripture bears out speaking freely or more more particular speaking is central to being
5:09a disciple of Jesus Christ.
5:12In Acts chapter four, what we have is Peter and John were arrested after they had healed
5:19a man, a man who had been lame and they healed him and the Sanhedrin, the same Sanhedrin that
5:31shortly before led to Jesus's crucifixion, the same Sanhedrin in an effort to kind of
5:39snuff out the popularity of the followers of the way, the followers of the way of Messiah,
5:45they arrested Peter and John. And we're going to peer into a portion of this account in Acts
5:53chapter 4 verses 13 through 20. And this is what the word of God says. Now as they observed
5:59that they is a Sanhedrin, the Sanhedrin here, now as they observed the confidence of Peter
6:05and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they, the Sanhedrin, were
6:15amazed and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus. And seeing the man who had
6:23been healed standing with them. They, the Sanhedrin, had nothing to say in reply. But when they had
6:30ordered them to leave the council, they began to confer with one another. That's the Sanhedrin
6:35confirmed with one another saying, what shall we do with these men? For the fact that a noteworthy
6:41miracle has taken place through them is apparent to all who live in Jerusalem. And we cannot deny
6:48but so that it will not spread any further among the people,
6:54let us warn them to speak no longer to any man in this name.
7:01And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak
7:05or teach at all in the name of Jesus.
7:08But Peter and John answered and said to them,
7:12whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you,
7:16Rather than to God, you be the judge.
7:20For we cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and heard.
7:30As you navigate that text, you'll notice that Peter and John healed the lame man.
7:41But in addition to the healing, because the healing is what contributed to their expanded popularity,
7:47But in addition to the healing notice with the Sanhedrin sought to do speak no longer in this name of Jesus speak no longer in this name of Jesus don't speak anymore to which Peter and John responded for you you'd consider whether it's more prudent for us to obey you order obey God.
8:08Because as far as we concerned we're concerned we cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and
8:15heard
8:16I've explained to you guys and one of the objectives of the implementation of verbiage such as
8:24politically correct speech is a
8:28Gramm seeing Marxian tool
8:31Frankly to limit discussion and if you make certain ideas and certain verbiage
8:39persononon grata, so to speak, then you eliminate the capacity for persuasion, but
8:47what I want us to narrowly focus on right in this moment is the consistency
8:54within this passage and all throughout the scripture with which the body of
8:59believers is compelled over and over and over and over again to speak, speak up,
9:06cry loud and spare not continue to talk continue to verbalize continue to speak
9:14what's happened in in in recent times is that many believers have been kind of
9:21intimidated to self-censorship I can't say that in public yeah you know oh man I
9:30don't want to deal with the backlash if I say that you know a part of the
9:34reality I've been talking about this ever since it happened the bullet to
9:40Charlie Kirk's neck was an effort to say,
9:41shut up, we don't wanna hear this anymore.
9:46The projectile version of what the Sanhedrin attempted
9:48to do the Peter and John.
9:50Shut up, don't speak anymore in this name.
9:52And I want to say with every ounce of conviction
9:55that I have by the spirit of God that indwells me
9:58to compel my brothers and sisters in Christ
10:00to refuse to be quiet, refuse to dumb down,
10:05refuse to put your light under the bushel.
10:08Remember that?
10:09This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.
10:14This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.
10:19This little light, you remember?
10:22Everywhere I go, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.
10:29What I put it under a bushel, no!
10:31I remember the hand gestures in children's church.
10:33No!
10:35I'm gonna let it shine.
10:36We must let the light shine.
10:38For far too long that I've been saying this,
10:40I'm gonna continue to beat this drum as well,
10:41that the most desperate need we have in our nation is repentance.
10:45The gospel must be proclaimed.
10:49In many places, it's far easier to talk politics,
10:53to talk civic engagement, to talk policy issues.
10:55Don't stop proclaiming the gospel.
11:00Don't stop proclaiming the gospel.
11:03All too often, we have too many of the family of God
11:07who are willing to allow the gospel
11:09to be excluded from our conversation.
11:13We can talk about all of these other things,
11:15But we will not proclaim the gospel and to say it just as the scripture bears it out that
11:21proclaiming the gospel ultimately comes to needing to speak.
11:26You know, I understand what's meant by, you know, preach the gospel if necessary use words.
11:30I know what people mean by that.
11:33But let me just be clear, the gospel requires words.
11:37We must use words.
11:39Now the expression, preach the gospel of the necessary use words simply means make sure our
11:43lives are lived consistently with the gospel that we dare proclaim.
11:47But that old adage is incomplete.
11:51We must, we must proclaim the gospel.
11:58Proclaim it.
12:00We have to proclaim it.
12:02The idea of the church efforts being to push the church to the margins of society, guys,
12:08that has been a feature that has been consistent ever since the Lord establishes church.
12:13But if you notice something in scripture,
12:15The more oppressive tactics are employed, the more the gospel spreads.
12:23Because what invariably is demonstrated is that Christ followers not a fair weather phenomenon,
12:28that our conviction and commitment to follow the king persists regardless of the circumstances
12:35surrounding us.
12:37Repeatedly in this portion of scripture, when they had summoned them, they commanded
12:41them not to speak, don't speak, don't speak any longer in the name of Jesus.
12:49Warn them to speak no longer to any man in this name.
12:54But their response was, we cannot stop speaking.
12:59We cannot stop speaking, which must be our heart's condition.
13:06We cannot stop speaking.
13:09We cannot stop speaking.
13:12We must proclaim the only name under heaven by which men must be saved.
13:16Man, I'm going to tell you, playing the Satan doesn't care if you want to talk about lower
13:23taxes all day long.
13:24Satan doesn't care if you want to talk about the debt limit and all day long.
13:28You know what he cares about?
13:29If the gospel of Jesus Christ is proclaimed.
13:33Now don't make sure what I'm saying.
13:34I understand policy issues.
13:35They're very important.
13:36I talk about those things on this show.
13:40But the thing that the spirit of Antichrist wants more than anything else is for people who
13:47who know the Lord to refuse to proclaim his name,
13:53to refuse to connect the egregiousness
13:58of men's behavior to the reality
14:01that mankind has inherited a sim nature from Adam,
14:04and that there's only one remedy for man's sin proclivity.
14:08And that's the gospel of Jesus Christ.
14:10That is the finished work of the cross.
14:13Speaking is a necessary component to Christ's following.
14:18We, still today, last night, I checked before I came
14:20Studio Marty, yep, the First Amendment is still in the Constitution.
14:25The First Amendment exists to support and bolster our ability in our country to proclaim
14:30freely.
14:32We must refuse to self-sensor or to allow the press of the culture to cause us to be intimidated
14:39away from proclaiming the one name under heaven by which men must be saved.
14:47Speak.
14:49Speak.
14:51Speak.
14:52A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
15:03The Word of God is a book full of truth.
15:06Yet truth is always meant to be learned and applied.
15:10We're to read the Word of God and act like it's true,
15:13because of course it is.
15:15We'll not receive the blessing and benefits of the Word of God.
15:19We fail to obey and act on it fully.
15:22We are called to be mighty warriors in the army of God.
15:26Our main weapon is the Word of God,
15:29the sword of the Spirit.
15:31Let's be wise enough to take our sword,
15:34the powerful word of God into battle every single day.
15:37Now let's be wise enough to use the word strategically,
15:41skillfully and aggressively.
15:43This is how we can walk in victory every day of our lives.
15:48Lord, open our eyes to the wonderful gift of your word.
15:50Open our eyes that we may see wondrous things
15:52out of your law in Jesus' name, we do pray.
15:56Amen.
16:05Shiting light into the darkness.
16:07This is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
16:10Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third here and I'm grateful to
16:15have in the studio with me.
16:17AFA is research fellow of church and culture, the author of dangerous affirmation, the threat
16:22of gay Christianity and producer of the award winning documentary in his image, Delighting
16:29in God's Plan, Progender and Sexuality.
16:32My guest is none other than M.D. Perkins.
16:35MD, thank you for joining me here on the Hamilton corner.
16:38Good to be with you again, Abe.
16:39Oh, man, it is my pleasure.
16:40I wanted you here because you just published an article that's available on AFN.net titled
16:47Free Speech, Double Standards and the Assassination of Charlie Kirk.
16:53And when I read it, I thought it was an excellent technical exposition of how we've gotten to
17:03the double standards concerning speech and why it's important within our body
17:08of politics to understand why the moniker hate speech is so often employed.
17:13You know, I talked earlier this week in a program,
17:15walking through the communist manifesto explaining how, no, no, no,
17:18the reason why you have people that are saying, hey, notice there were no cities
17:22burned, no stores looted, no violence often in retribution following Charlie
17:27Kirk's murder, because when you have people who profess to be, you know,
17:30somewhat constitutionalist oriented violence is a violation of their worldview and belief system
17:36versus those who I describe uneffectually as regressives, violence is a tactic that they employ
17:43in order to accomplish their civic objectives. And so that's why you see so often there's a certain
17:49comfort level with the utilization of violence. It's like, oh, oh, somebody died somebody got punched
17:55in the face somebody got slapped somebody that shot. So how about those universal basic income?
18:03You know, now we get it now now because it's essential to their worldview, unfortunately.
18:11Why did you find it important to diagnose in the fashion that you did which is excellent,
18:17the necessity of understanding free speech and the double standards concerning it?
18:21Well, on the day that Charlie Kirk was assassinated and we were watching this whole drama unfold,
18:27of course, we were burdened immediately by just the gravity of the situation, the personal
18:33loss, the tragedy there, the atrocity of it.
18:37And then what does this mean for our nation?
18:39But then there was immediately the question that emerged, which is why are there people
18:44celebrating this?
18:46And also, why am I not surprised about that?
18:50And so that question, how did we get here where there's some attempt to justify an atrocious
18:59act of evil and an unwillingness to even just call it that on its face?
19:04All of these little ways of like, well, I didn't fully agree with him, but he kind of asked for
19:11it in a way is the sentiment that kept getting put out there.
19:15And so where did this concept come from?
19:19Where would that justification be?
19:21And just within God's providence, I was teaching a class in my church talking about this social
19:27concern of expressive individualism, the idea that you are your feelings and the way that
19:34you express, the true meaning of life is really expressing who you are on the inside.
19:38And that thought of that expressing who you are and feeling like, I have to get out
19:45this thing and matched that with the idea that this notion that words are
19:52violence, that words themselves have become the equivalent of violence. So then
19:57when Charlie Kirk said something that I disagreed with that was basically
20:00inciting a violent retaliation against him when it was just words. He
20:06didn't act in a way that was violent. He didn't incite people to violence. He
20:11He wasn't calling people to violence.
20:13He wasn't trying to evoke that.
20:16He was arguing and presenting facts and opinions and commenting on things.
20:23So that's kind of the mix of how I got to this article.
20:27Yeah.
20:28So let's walk through that because I think a lot of us know kind of intuitively what's
20:34happening.
20:35We feel it.
20:36You know, what you just described, almost everybody in the audience right now will probably say,
20:40I've heard people say, you know, you know, words are violence, you know, this you're attacking
20:45me via your hate speech in that literally your words are synonymous with a violent act.
20:52How did you break it down?
20:54And would you walk us through the approach that you laid out in this article that's on
20:58AFN.net?
20:59Well, I started by thinking about just that concept of words as violence.
21:04You know, my wife and I were talking about it and she's like, you know, nobody really
21:08says that old, old rhyme we grew up with, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will
21:13never hurt me.
21:15And you know, as we were thinking about it, it's like, well, there's actually a cultural
21:18shift that's happened behind that.
21:20Part of that is kind of a therapeutic culture, because I mean, we all know words hurt.
21:26I mean, that was, and so we would always couch things against that kind of rhyme, but what
21:33The point of the rhyme was to teach our own selves resilience,
21:37and that words don't have power over me.
21:40Like what the bully calls me is not who I truly am.
21:43And so like, yeah, it hurts, it stings.
21:45I don't like hearing that.
21:47But also that's not true.
21:48So I don't have to live in light of what he thinks or what he says.
21:53And so I can just move on with my life and not be controlled by what the bully says.
21:58And that's the whole point of it.
22:00But we've so far moved away from this because we believe that somehow words are violent in
22:08themselves and that maybe they're inciting violence in us. And so like the concept of hate
22:17speech like you were saying, I mean, there are hateful words that exist out there. There are ways
22:24that you can speak that is hateful in itself. But there's been a, this shift that's happened in
22:31redefining what hate is, what violence is, what harm is. And then when you, when you start to redefine
22:41those terms, then you can fill that with all kinds of things in order to silence opposition,
22:47build up your own, your own platform and kind of, you know, so the Christian position often is kept
22:54out of this discussion because de facto by the viewpoint that, for example, that homosexuality
23:01is a sin, that in itself is deemed as a hateful thought or a hateful comment.
23:08And so the article is trying to track through kind of the logic of that as well as the double
23:15standards that exist in how we examine these claims of violence because it does seem it's
23:22It's not a symmetry.
23:23Yes, there are people on the right who were hateful,
23:26who were bigoted, and doing bad things,
23:30as there are on the left.
23:32But it's not really an asymmetry in terms of controlling
23:35the speech and using the arguments to try and silence
23:39one side against another.
23:40And so that's also why I lean in pretty heavily
23:45on this notion of the double standard that exists.
23:48Yeah, you rightly pointed out that by employing terms,
23:53and if anybody who's following,
23:55I worked for a while, you remember,
23:58I've been on the air almost 10 years now,
24:00and my first year on the air,
24:01I did several shows talking about why,
24:03the utilization of this moniker, so-called hate crimes,
24:06is ultimately going to prove deleterious for society,
24:12because which crimes are committed out of love?
24:15Right.
24:16Yeah.
24:18You know, so what are they simply trying to do?
24:20It was laying the, you know, the breadcrumbs to build this framework of having civic protected
24:26status for particular behaviors.
24:29And that also gave rise to the concept of from hate crimes, we've got the idea of hate
24:34speech.
24:35Yeah.
24:36You see that, well, you can speak with certain speech has an elevated amount of hatred, but
24:42it only applied in certain directions.
24:44It was categorically applied.
24:46It wasn't applied across the board and it had the impact as you describe it as further narrowing the already shrinking range of
24:55acceptable discourse, which I've shared with my audience here. This is exactly what Antonio Gramsci and his prison notebooks
25:03advocated for by weaponizing language that you have an ever moving ever fluctuating
25:09notion of an acceptable lexicon and you weaponize the language in an effort to
25:14destabilize society because by weaponizing language you actually get to
25:19change expectations in reality based on verbiage. So what you just describe the
25:25impact of using so-called hate speech as a justification for narrowing acceptable
25:30discourse. Yeah I mean the redefinition of language is in many ways the
25:35redefinition of reality because that's how we understand the world in terms of
25:40abstract principles that God gave us the ability to communicate in language. It
25:44separates us from animals. There's other forms of communication besides language,
25:49but language is clear. It's expressing what you believe, what you think, and being able
25:56to express that in some sort of common way. And we all have seen the way that
26:02that the left and the LGBTQ movement
26:05have altered our vocabulary and changed the language
26:10in order to control your perception of reality.
26:14So example from my book, Dangerous Affirmation,
26:17I talk about the emergence of the term homosexuality,
26:21and that's describing an internal state.
26:24Now before that, there was a different word
26:26that was used that just described the action.
26:30And so when you think of homosexuality
26:32as an action, the way that you limit it,
26:35the way that you talk about it is different,
26:37but then when it becomes an internal perception,
26:40your ability to regulate that action is limited,
26:46and it changes.
26:47And that wasn't just an accidental thing that happened,
26:52it was people who actually wanted to change sodomy laws
26:55in Germany at that time.
26:58And so then that becomes a whole shift in language.
27:02And so that's how these things work is,
27:09I think conservatives have kind of capitulated
27:13at different points on language.
27:14We've just kind of consented to certain new terminologies
27:18and the vocabulary that's been handed to us,
27:21thinking that, well, if I just embrace the vocabulary,
27:24maybe I'll still be able to win the argument,
27:26but you don't realize that the vocabulary
27:28was already handed to you with vacated meanings
27:32or additional meanings that were inferred
27:34that you didn't recognize.
27:35And before you knew it,
27:37you've actually undermined your argument
27:38and your place by incorporating the terminology.
27:43And then you've kind of destroyed your ability
27:45to actually gain any ground in the argument.
27:47Yeah, I wanna lean in on that for a moment
27:50because I've been accused of being like a language police
27:53because I refuse to say certain terms
27:54because words have meaning.
27:57You don't get to just unilaterally change
28:00meaning of a meaning of a word because you don't like it.
28:02You know, it's one of the reasons why I refuse to say
28:05biological male.
28:06It's an oxymoron.
28:07I mean, it's not oxymoron, it's a redundant.
28:10There's, it's a male.
28:12This is a male.
28:13This is a man.
28:14This is a boy.
28:14I refuse to say biological female because it's a redundancy.
28:19So why would the society want me to begin to use those terms,
28:22biological male, biological female?
28:24Because it is by my own language,
28:26seeding the ground rhetorically to say, well, this is a biological male,
28:31therefore they could be what? A non-biological male, which is a redefinition of reality only by
28:39terms. And it's one of the most insidious forms of communication of information because it's
28:45a sumpative. It assumes something that is false. And so I'm not trying to be hateful or to be
28:51demeaning or insulting, but what the spirit of the age does is try to use verbiage to trap us in.
28:57Oh, M.D., you're so hateful. Why won't you just be respectful to this person? He's demanding that you
29:03affirm his reality. Well, no, what he's demanding of you is for you to lie to him, because he's chosen
29:10to live self-deceived. How should then people respond when you say that in many instances,
29:16conservatives and constitutionalists have kind of capitulated to this redefinition of reality,
29:21even by the word for Tuesday use?
29:23Well, I mean, first of all,
29:25it's just acknowledging that language matters
29:29and seeking to understand the language
29:32that's been handed to you.
29:34You know, I mean, just even, I mean,
29:38there's lots of ways that this can manifest itself,
29:41even within the home.
29:42The other night, my daughter used the term queen
29:46to describe somebody.
29:47And I've yet to correct her on it,
29:50I have it on my agenda to do,
29:52because what I want her to understand is that
29:54that's actually a term from gay drag performances.
30:00And I know it's kind of gained this,
30:03yes clean.
30:04Yeah, this kind of cultural flair.
30:06And now to you, it's disconnected from it.
30:09But it's still in a sense normalizing this behavior,
30:13even though you, now the context of that
30:16is disconnected to you just as a 16-year-old girl in 2025,
30:22but that's the legacy that it comes from.
30:25And so the ways that we can acknowledge this
30:28within our own personal lives or our own use of language,
30:31I think, is maybe one of the first steps.
30:33Just being aware that when someone wants to change a term
30:38or they're kind of, they're refrasing what you say
30:41in a slightly different way, you can kind of test this
30:45through chat GPT, like see how it might adjust your language,
30:50how might a liberal describe what I just said,
30:53and see what it might spit out,
30:56and then see what kind of terminology is within that
30:59to give you some of those code words
31:01that might be used out there.
31:03Now I wanna ask you about this,
31:04we have about two minutes,
31:06that includes the bumper music coming to this break.
31:08You mentioned in your piece,
31:10you cite Rutgers University's Network Contagion Research Institute,
31:15and they had a survey there, and the survey had some really jaw-dropping results concerning what they labeled as assassin culture.
31:28We have maybe about maybe 30 seconds, 45 seconds or so to just kind of begin sharing,
31:33why did you employ that study and what are some of the results that came from that survey?
31:37I should say, why did you employ that survey in your article and what are some of the results that came from that survey?
31:42Well, the survey said that it was asking the question,
31:46if Donald Trump were to be assassinated,
31:51would there be any justification for that?
31:53And 56% of those who identified as left of center politically
31:59said yes, there would be somewhat justification for that.
32:02And 14.1% said that would be fully justified.
32:06I think that gives you a context for where people are
32:10in this sense that words are violence and that that murder outright murder is justifiable if it
32:17achieves a big a bigger end in their mind politically. That that that is that is astounding. Yeah.
32:25To see that respondents offer that as their position that they and that was after the
32:33assassination attempt by the way that's that study happened after the. And in Pennsylvania. Yeah.
32:37Wow, wow. You're listening to the Hamilton Corner, watching the Hamilton Corner. My guest
32:44is M.D. Perkins. We're going to continue discussing his piece that's available right
32:48now on AmericanFamilyNews.net, AFN.net, free speech, double standards, and the assassination
32:54of Charlie Kirk.
33:00At Wesley Biblical Seminary, we believe God is raising up a movement across our nation and
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34:01Charlie Kirk, assassination.
34:03This is David Wheaton, host of the Christian Royal View.
34:06A 31-year-old married father of two, Charlie Kirk, perhaps the most influential conservative
34:12leader other than President Trump, was assassinated as he spoke at Utah Valley University.
34:17Of course, no one should be killed for their speech.
34:20But to the modern left, to disagree with them is to be a danger in need of silencing.
34:26Charlie will be remembered for his sharp intellect and persuasive debate style.
34:30He will also be known for being a forthright Christian.
34:33Stay for God's strength and comfort for Charlie's wife and family.
34:37Charlie is surely now saying, thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord
34:42Jesus Christ.
34:44Here are most recent programs on Charlie Kirk at TheChristianWorldView.org and then tune in
34:49this weekend for another topic that will sharpen your worldview.
34:53Listen to The Christian World View with David Wheaton, Saturday mornings at 8 Central on
34:58American Family Radio.
35:05the Hamilton Quarter podcast and one-minute commentaries are available at aFR.net back
35:11to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
35:15Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. My guest is MD Perkins. We're having a conversation
35:19about his article that is up right now on AFN.net. That's AmericanFamilyNews.net titled
35:25Free Speech, Double Standards, and the Assassination of Charlie Kirk. And before the break we
35:30began discussing the NCRI survey, Rutgers University's Network Contagion Research Institute, in
35:36which they identified or labeled a phenomenon called assassin culture.
35:42And I wanted to invite you to continue your remarks on that survey.
35:45Well, it was just troubling that 56% of those who identified as left of center said that
35:53the murder of Donald Trump would be in some way justified.
35:56And then 14.1% said that it would be fully justified.
35:59And even further, Elon Musk, his murder, would be 10% said that would be fully justified.
36:06So even moving beyond just a hatred of the president itself, which obviously Donald Trump
36:11a very polarizing figure for a lot of people, but to move down to somebody else who's not
36:19even an elected politician, just somebody operating in a different capacity with a connection
36:25with Donald Trump, but still hated to the extreme that 10% would say it's fully justified to
36:32take his life.
36:33And so just that level of justification for murder, like we mentioned, this study happened
36:39after the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt on Trump's life, but before the assassination,
36:45the successful assassination of Charlie Kirk.
36:48And so it just...
36:49Demonic.
36:50In my mind, yeah, there's just a level of bloodlust
36:53that exists among people who are,
36:56where it's not just,
36:57this is where the words are violence thing.
37:00It's an opposition not just to the ideal,
37:02but to the person and the person representing
37:06a political viewpoint and a political strategy
37:09and a political opportunity,
37:11but that is so hated that you would actually rejoice
37:16and think that it justifies.
37:18It's kind of like those, you know, the thought experiments of could you go back and kill Hitler
37:24when he was a child sort of thing.
37:26It's kind of like a different version of that.
37:29If you conceive of Donald Trump as quote, literally Hitler, as some people are claiming,
37:35then yeah, I mean, they think that they are fully justified if someone were to, no, well,
37:40I would never do it myself, but you know, if someone were to do it, I wouldn't be sad
37:44kind of thing.
37:45It reminds me of, and you referred to this in your article, this associate professor at
37:52the University of Michigan.
37:54Charles H. F. Davis, the third.
37:59You need to get rid of his suffix.
38:01It's too close.
38:03It's too close.
38:04Would you share with the audience what this University of Michigan associate professor said?
38:08Well, remind me of the exact quote.
38:10Yeah, well, yeah, well, I have it right in front of me where he said, quote, even if you
38:15believe violence isn't the answer, it is a solution, especially to the violent conditions
38:21and violent rhetoric spewed by empowered people that create them."
38:26See, what he's doing is he's blaming Charlie Kirk for his own death.
38:33And because what he's saying is that essentially Charlie Kirk is a racist, a racist is someone
38:38who's hateful, a racist is someone who's spewing out these ideas.
38:42because Charlie Kirk had a platform, had influence, was talking to young people, was a political
38:48organizer.
38:49Therefore, he was doing a lot of things that were really wrong.
38:54And so for someone to take out his life, he's hedging it so that he's not saying that it's
39:01good.
39:02But I mean, I think to this point, he's avoided being fired.
39:06But maybe that's changed since I quoted that.
39:11But anyway, but he's presenting it.
39:15Violence is not an answer, but it is a solution.
39:19So that same kind of idea, like if someone were to do this,
39:22I wouldn't be too sorry about it,
39:24because it still accomplishes an important goal,
39:28because it stops him from doing what he's doing.
39:32What would you say to the person who said,
39:33Well, yeah, I am deep, but that's just a fringe perspective.
39:36Is it really a fringe?
39:38Well, perspective.
39:39That was the startling thing about everybody's social media
39:44accounts in the days following the Charlie Kirk assassination.
39:48You thought it was a fringe opinion.
39:51And now you're seeing, this is somebody I went to college with.
39:54This is somebody in my family.
39:55This is somebody I used to go to church with.
39:57This is so and so and so and so.
39:59And these aren't just bots.
40:01These are people that I know.
40:02This is actual, these are actual people who are saying this.
40:06And then once you start to get into these stories of doctors
40:09and lawyers and school teachers and social workers
40:12and all these.
40:13HR professors, military service members.
40:14Exactly.
40:15Of course.
40:16You're the full gamut of our society.
40:17I'm just walking around with people who are saying like,
40:20murder is a pretty good thing if it hits the right person.
40:23Man, that is wild.
40:26And you do an amazing job.
40:27And I really think this formula needs
40:31to be understood at this technical level
40:34of articulating the paradigm, for example,
40:38for people who would say,
40:38Charlie Kirk is a bigot,
40:39that would not be seen as hate speech.
40:43But if you say, well, a homosexual man is a sinner,
40:48well, that's hate speech.
40:49What would you walk us through that formula?
40:51And I don't know if you have it in front of you,
40:52I have it right in front of me.
40:53I've got this one.
40:54Yeah, if we walk through this,
40:55and I think this is very important for people to understand,
40:58because again, many of us probably experienced this
41:01and have experienced this anecdotally,
41:04but we may not have recognized
41:06what was actually transpiring.
41:07So would you walk us through that kind of paradigm
41:10to where they arrived at,
41:12well, you're rhetoric is violence toward me.
41:15Yeah, so the idea is that to not affirm someone's sexual
41:18identity is essentially to denial someone's personhood.
41:22That's what I was alluding to earlier
41:24with the expressive individualism.
41:25That's how that comes into this.
41:27So denying someone's sexual identity is to actually say
41:30that that person doesn't exist or that that person's
41:33unimportant.
41:34And this is in their mindset.
41:35Yeah, this is the mindset they've adopted.
41:37This is how they're seeing things.
41:39So did not affirm someone's sexual identity
41:41is a denial of one's personhood.
41:43And then to deny someone's personhood is to deny someone's
41:46existence.
41:47That's a big leap.
41:49Therefore, to deny someone's existence
41:51is basically equal to an act of violence.
41:53So essentially, someone with that viewpoint
41:56is already committed to act of violence against this person.
41:59And therefore, it's justified if someone
42:01to take out a physical act of violence against them
42:04so that they can stop their violent rhetoric.
42:07You've heard of Charlie Kurtz quote unquote,
42:10violent rhetoric, which is just saying stuff like this,
42:13that you're not defined by your sexual identity
42:18and all of these sorts of things.
42:20No one's born gay, those sorts of things.
42:22That is hate speech in this paradigm.
42:25And so that becomes the, that's essentially the evidence
42:31to justify taking out someone's life.
42:35You know, there was a pastor in, I mean,
42:38you can put quotes around pastor maybe here
42:41because at Alfred Street Baptist Church,
42:43I'll just say his name, Reverend Dr. Howard John Wesley
42:47spoke of Charlie Kirk as a weapon of the enemy.
42:52And like the enemy being Satan,
42:55but also kind of inferred within that as Donald Trump
42:58and all of these sorts of things.
43:01So therefore, he can mourn that he died,
43:05but he doesn't have to celebrate his life as what he's saying.
43:09But all of that is this subtle justification
43:12for the violence that occurred there.
43:14And this is coming from a pulpit.
43:17Yeah, a pulpit like four days after the assassination.
43:20Hmm. This this is man
43:25Because many of you listening and watching you've heard the term that would be you're erasing me
43:30This is you know, this is lgbgq Ia p plus erasure
43:35But what they're saying is exactly what MD said that that you're refusing to afford a firm their sexual identity
43:40You know that that's why in recent discourse
43:45Everything is boiling down my identity my identity how I identify how I identify is like wait wait
43:50what happened to us just being people,
43:53and we are evaluated based on what we do.
43:58Not how you seek to identify yourself,
44:01and then the identity always turns on
44:05my sexual expression or conduct.
44:08Yeah, and I'm sure as a lawyer,
44:10you see the problem of the self-identification
44:14versus an actual action.
44:16And so this is also embedding intent on the part
44:20of people who are speaking just by the nature
44:24of what they are arguing for, a position that they are taking.
44:28Now therefore, there is this hateful intent behind it
44:31because they see it as a troubling outcome
44:35or an outcome against them.
44:38And so therefore it's an attack personally
44:41beyond what, you know, like the question that I've had
44:45And I've wondered is like, how is my view that homosexuality as a sin, how is that a denial
44:50of someone's personhood?
44:52How is that an attack on their personhood?
44:54Well simultaneously, denying that a child is a child in the womb, but that's not a denial
44:58of personhood.
44:59Right.
45:00Well, and that's another troubling aspect of our national bloodlust is you want to talk
45:03about abortion and how this kind of sets the stage for people to be desensitized to it when
45:08you've just, you've accepted it as the termination of a pregnancy and just family planning or
45:15pornography that kind of removes the level of shame
45:19about certain things or you know,
45:21immersive video games and the violence that's there.
45:24And the way that you treat it as just an entertainment.
45:30You know, all of these things I think are in the bigger picture
45:33of where we are right now and the responses
45:37that we're seeing and hearing online
45:39to the assassination, the murder of a Christian man.
45:43And so you kind of building to the crescendo on your argument in this piece, you write,
45:50quote, if words are violence and disagreement is hate, then there is no longer any room
45:57for persuasion, end quote.
45:59And in my view, when you have a society that so narrows the funnel of acceptable speech,
46:07have you heard that one before, that it ultimately excludes room for the gospel to be proclaimed,
46:13Because ultimately, if you are informing people, let's say we've been talking about homosexuality,
46:17no, sir, you are made in God's image, but the conduct that you're engaging in, unless you
46:22repent and turn away from it, it will lead you to hell.
46:25But by God's grace, Jesus has already paid the penalty for your sin.
46:29That proclamation itself becomes hate speech.
46:32Absolutely.
46:33And where are you going to go with that as a Christian?
46:37I mean, think about the value of persuasion.
46:41I mean, even just what Charlie Kirk was doing,
46:43I mean, his tent set up said prove me wrong.
46:46He was inviting people who might disagree
46:49or might have questions and are coming to him
46:52to engage in this sharing of ideas.
46:56And, you know, I actually watched an interview
46:59with the guy who was speaking with Charlie Kirk
47:02and engaged in debate with him right as he was killed.
47:06And the guy, you know, is leftist.
47:08He comes from this background.
47:10He's got a pride flag, a BLM flag,
47:12all this stuff hanging up in his apartment.
47:14But he's just troubled and devastated by this,
47:18everything that happened, both personally going through this,
47:21but also the reactions of his friends and loved ones
47:24who are just gloating at the death of this man.
47:29And this guy was preparing to come in
47:32and actually bring facts regarding something
47:35that Charlie had said, you know, about transgender shooters.
47:38and he kind of wanted to debunk that,
47:40or to offer a-
47:41Tried to.
47:42Yeah, tried to offer a take on it
47:46based on what he believed was reasonable evidence.
47:49But he believed that he could do this,
47:51that they could have this sharing exchange,
47:53and that maybe in light of what he said,
47:55Charlie might rethink part of his position,
47:57or at least tamper the way that he was dealing
48:00with that issue from a policy,
48:02the way that he was thinking about policy on it,
48:05verse and perhaps this guy might even be persuaded of something based on what Charlie might bring.
48:11But that goes away the minute the gun comes out.
48:14Yeah.
48:15Yeah.
48:16You build toward the conclusion of your piece, quote, the deeper reason words are seen as
48:19violence is because they carry a weight that feelings cannot, an objective connection to
48:25truth.
48:26The redefinition of language is a redefinition of reality.
48:30We cannot fully escape the edges of actual reality crashing against our perceptions, though
48:35we try.
48:36And when truth is replaced by emotion, the ability for meaningful discourse disappears."
48:44I really feel like that puts a button on it, and it encapsulates what I've been describing
48:48as this clash of worldviews that violence is a tactic categorizing views that one disagrees
48:59with as hate speech narrows the scope of acceptable discourse to eliminate the perspective of persuasion.
49:06And even when that fails, we'll use violence to enforce that narrow scope of acceptable discourse
49:12so that there is a uniform manner of living and engagement with ultimately you can smell the
49:18embers of Hades with that type of disposition. I'll leave the last thought to you.
49:23Yeah. I mean, it's a troubling situation when you find you think about the bigger issues of
49:28free speech and what that means.
49:30But the ways that our discourse overall is being shaped
49:33by what is deemed acceptable and unacceptable
49:37and just completely dismissed out of hand
49:39so that where someone is trying to bring in
49:42a Christian perspective or the Christian worldview,
49:45these established Christian positions that are historical,
49:47they're not hateful, they're just part of
49:49what God has declared.
49:51And the proclamation of the gospel,
49:53the proclamation of truth that can actually
49:55penetrate the soul and make someone recognize with fresh eyes the air of their
50:00ways you're trying to remove that from the table so that the Christian message
50:05can't even go out there and be effective. I mean of course God will get the
50:10win in the end but you know it it hinders our ability as Christians here in this
50:16life. That's the objective and I wanted to have this conversation so that we can be
50:20aware of the tactics but resolve nevertheless that we're gonna do what
50:24The scripture says that we cannot see speaking in the name of Jesus.
50:28We will not be intimidated by these tactics, but we will proclaim the truth, cry aloud,
50:33and spare not.
50:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those
50:44of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.

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