("Best-of" Edition from 10/27/22) Famed researcher and Arizona Christian University Professor George Barna steps into “The Corner.”

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:23Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:31Good evening, everyone.
12. 0:34Welcome to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third here on this evening.
13. 0:40Man, what a week.
14. 0:41If you like me, you feel like this week has been three weeks.
15. 0:45It's been a lot going on all over the world and in our own country.
16. 0:49I got a lot going on in my family.
17. 0:52That's a whole other story for another day and another time.
18. 0:55I'm hearing a little bit of echo.
19. 0:58I don't know.
20. 0:59No, I'm good. It's good now. We good. We good. We good. We good.
21. 1:01Yeah. I'm good.
22. 1:02Well, thank you for tuning in to the program. Many of you and all of the different ways
23. 1:07that you're tuning in, podcasters, radio listeners, live audio streamers, video streamers, NRBTV
24. 1:16years. Thank you to all of you for tuning in to the program. I am grateful. We are grateful
25. 1:23for you doing that. I will. It never is lost on me that in this information age,
26. 1:28you can go to any number of outlets to get the content that you desire, frankly.
27. 1:34And so the simple fact that you choose to tune into this program, I greatly, greatly appreciate
28. 1:41it.
29. 1:42And because of that commitment on your end, I will always, always endeavor to make your
30. 1:48time in the corner worthwhile as best as possible.
31. 1:53At this very moment, many of you, if not most of you, are making that transition from
32. 1:56your part-time jobs where you generate an income to your full-time jobs, where you cultivate
33. 2:05an outcome.
34. 2:06As you make that transition, please understand that the divine creator of heaven and earth,
35. 2:13having the wherewithal to unfold human history, and his created order in any manner he deemed
36. 2:21fit.
37. 2:23He expressly chose to make the first institution of his divine creation the family.
38. 2:30He did that on purpose.
39. 2:33He did that with specific intention.
40. 2:36He did that and recorded it so that you and I who would come thereafter, we would have access
41. 2:42to and understand the primacy and the significance that he places on family.
42. 2:52We're on in the program and Lord willing.
43. 2:55I'm gonna have a guest on the show
44. 2:56and I'm really excited I'm trying to get this guest
45. 2:58with quite some time.
46. 2:59We've been working on it for a while.
47. 3:01I'm Jay McManus busy, you know.
48. 3:05We're gonna have a conversation about even with all
49. 3:07of the divisiveness and things that are happening
50. 3:09in society, culture, our culture is beginning
51. 3:12to wake up to the reality that family is absolutely significant.
52. 3:18You've heard me say numerous times,
53. 3:19we will never be able to out public policy.
54. 3:22We will never be able to out politic.
55. 3:24We'll never be able to out church deficiencies
56. 3:28that are prevalent in the family.
57. 3:32A part of the reason is that we cannot seek to side step
58. 3:36God's ways yet enjoy God's results.
59. 3:41We have an entire bevy of our society.
60. 3:44Many of them want the things that God produces,
61. 3:49but we don't wanna go his way.
62. 3:51You have lots of people they want to enjoy intimacy, but they don't want to commit.
63. 3:56You have people that want to have high incomes, but they don't want to be diligent.
64. 3:58They don't want to look to the aunt as Proverbs instructs us.
65. 4:02They don't want to to oil in winter and I mean, toil and summer to store your
66. 4:07goods and prepare for the winter.
67. 4:09They want to now instant gratification, instant returns.
68. 4:15You cannot seek God's results by sidestepping God's ways.
69. 4:19And most importantly, we should not have a heart condition where all that we want is are the things that God produces.
70. 4:28You know, I describe that I talk to my children about this all the time as seeking God's hand as opposed to his face.
71. 4:33You know, God is not a cosmic Santa Claus or some intergalactic vending machine.
72. 4:40You know, you put the coin in the right slot and hit the right button, then out comes results.
73. 4:45He's God. He should be sought. He should be worshiped. He should be honored and he must be obeyed.
74. 4:59So as you are making your transition from your part-time jobs to your full-time jobs, may I remind you that what goes on in your house is far
75. 5:07more important, far more important than what goes on in the White House. And so because that is the case,
76. 5:14make every endeavor, make every effort to begin discharging the lifestyle of worship
77. 5:21before our Lord, Savior, and soon returning King, write in our homes.
78. 5:28Write in your home this evening, you have an opportunity to labor on our Lord's
79. 5:32vineyard and execute the Great Commission starting right at home. It doesn't mean
80. 5:37that that is the exclusive outlet that your obedience is required within, but it
81. 5:41It is a primary context in which we must worship our Lord.
82. 5:49To the word of God, we'll go next.
83. 5:50Back to the book of Joshua.
84. 5:51I know we've been hanging in Joshua a lot lately.
85. 5:54Cause I've been hanging in Joshua a lot lately.
86. 5:56I actually gonna be there quite some time.
87. 5:58Joshua chapter seven versus 10 through 14.
88. 6:04This is the portion of time between the amazing victory
89. 6:08that the Israelites enjoyed at Jericho
90. 6:12And then their defeat at AI.
91. 6:16This is the immediate fallout after their defeat at AI
92. 6:20when Joshua prostrated himself before Yahweh
93. 6:25because he was flabbergasted.
94. 6:28He was flamoxed.
95. 6:30He was astounded.
96. 6:31Can't believe that we lost a little bitty bitty bitty
97. 6:35AI.
98. 6:37And this is how the Lord responded to him.
99. 6:40The Lord said to Joshua, get up.
100. 6:44Why have you fallen on your face? Israel has sinned. They have transgressed my covenant that I commanded
101. 6:51them. They have taken some of the devoted things. They have stolen and lied and put them among their
102. 6:59own belongings. Therefore, the people of Israel cannot stand before their enemies. They turn their
103. 7:04backs before their enemies because they have become devoted for destruction. I will be with you no
104. 7:10more unless you destroyed the devoted things from among you.
105. 7:13Get up, consecrate the people, and say,
106. 7:18consecrate yourselves for tomorrow.
107. 7:21For that says the Lord God of Israel,
108. 7:23there are devoted things in your midst, though Israel.
109. 7:26You cannot stand before your enemies until you take away the devoted things from among you.
110. 7:30In the morning, therefore, you shall be brought near by your tribes.
111. 7:35And the tribe that the Lord takes by lot
112. 7:37shall come nearby clans.
113. 7:39And the clan that the Lord takes shall come nearby households.
114. 7:43And the household that the Lord takes shall come near man by man."
115. 7:50Now, this is the historical recordings as to how the Lord addressed Aiken's sin.
116. 7:57But I want you to specifically note not only does the Lord confront the symphoness
117. 8:03as present and he tells Joshua to get up to address it.
118. 8:07But as it's diagnosed, the Lord explains that the people of Israel will be brought near tribe by tribe
119. 8:14first, then it says they'll be brought by clan, then by household, then by man. You'll notice this is
120. 8:25a narrowing of the point of attention. You go from the larger group of the tribe, then from within the
121. 8:34tribe, each clan within the tribe will be addressed. Then within the clans, each household within
122. 8:43the clan will be addressed. And then within each household, each individual. You see this
123. 8:48specified narrowing of focus. And one of the major things that I want to say to you today
124. 8:55is that this example provides for us guidance as to how we should seek to evaluate ourselves
125. 9:01and evaluate our own lives. As the scripture says in the New Testament that we are to work
126. 9:05out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling.
127. 9:09Unfortunately, I believe because of really bad theology and a lot of senses, we have people
128. 9:17who conflate the prevalence of the sinfulness of mankind with being comfortable with the
129. 9:24sinfulness of mankind.
130. 9:27I'll never forget my past in New Orleans, man.
131. 9:29I'm so grateful that God blessed me with a godly pastor as I was growing up and gave me
132. 9:36opportunity not only to hear sound biblical teaching, but to get an opportunity to get
133. 9:42close enough to watch my pastor's life and to see that his life matched his teaching. And now my pastor
134. 9:51is 80 years old, still going strong. If you saw him, you wouldn't think he was 80 years old.
135. 9:57Pastor Wooten and he taught our whole church and taught me specifically. This, really, I call it a
136. 10:07a Wooten proverb that I've adopted.
137. 10:10Say, what you tolerate, you will not change.
138. 10:14What doesn't change only increases.
139. 10:18What increases will one day bind you to it.
140. 10:22That's the maximum.
141. 10:23What you tolerate, you won't change.
142. 10:26What doesn't change only increases.
143. 10:29What increases will eventually, will ultimately,
144. 10:32will one day bind you to it.
145. 10:35It is an absolute biblical truth
146. 10:38that mankind is infected with the sin nature from birth.
147. 10:42It is also an absolute biblical truth,
148. 10:45that mankind that is regenerated,
149. 10:48receives a new nature, 2 Corinthians 5, 17.
150. 10:52What happens then within the life of the believer
151. 10:55that will spend the remainder of our lives
152. 10:57in the sanctification process until our salvation culminates
153. 11:02in the return of our Messiah,
154. 11:04or until our transition from this side of eternity
155. 11:08into the eternal state, where we live within the full manifested presence of our King, that
156. 11:15in that interim time period, we will continually learn to renew our minds to live according
157. 11:23to and consistent with our new nature.
158. 11:27They should never come a point in a believer's life or in the life of believers plural, where
159. 11:35we become comfortable living in rebellion.
160. 11:41is foreign to a believer. So we look at the great narrowing specificity that Yawe
161. 11:48employs when confronting Eakinson from tribe to clan to household to man. It gives
162. 11:57a guideline for us as to how we should seek to narrow our focus into specifically
163. 12:04what our issue may be. We talked earlier, wasn't this week, but last week, maybe
164. 12:10the week before about the deficiency in delight.
165. 12:14If you recognize, and this is just a categorical,
166. 12:1730,000 foot evaluation, you recognize,
167. 12:19man I have all kinds of energy for all kinds of stuff.
168. 12:22You know I can watch a football game,
169. 12:23I can watch the Saints all three hours,
170. 12:25maybe four if it goes in overtime.
171. 12:27Of the Saints game on Sundays,
172. 12:28I can watch college football all day long.
173. 12:30You don't even have to be my team
174. 12:32and I'll watch college football.
175. 12:33You know I can watch the HGTV, I can go shopping,
176. 12:36I can do all of these things,
177. 12:37and I have never once thought,
178. 12:39You know what, this is taking way too long.
179. 12:41When I come to the things like this, I get sleepy.
180. 12:45You know, I talked to my brothers who like to hunt,
181. 12:47man, you schedule hunting, you plan in advance.
182. 12:51You get up early before the sunrise, you're there.
183. 12:55You know, you wanna snob a five point buck.
184. 12:59You gonna invest the time that's necessary.
185. 13:00The simple point is the things that we truly enjoy
186. 13:02and that we desire, we never put a time limit on them.
187. 13:06You can never get too much of it.
188. 13:09And whenever you get tired, we were engaging it.
189. 13:10So if you recognize that and then contrast that
190. 13:13with the things of God,
191. 13:14that would have come to the things of the Lord.
192. 13:15It's time to read the word, I get sleepy.
193. 13:18When it comes to prayer time, I get distracted.
194. 13:21When it comes to listen to a sermon,
195. 13:22oh, this verse is taking too long.
196. 13:25Look, I'm not trying to make an excuse
197. 13:27because I might be low-quacious, I may be,
198. 13:29I may not be.
199. 13:32What I'm saying is if you recognize that
200. 13:33there's a deficiency of delight,
201. 13:35that the things that you enjoy,
202. 13:36you're never looking for a timeline.
203. 13:38You're never getting sleepy.
204. 13:39But when it comes to the things of the Lord,
205. 13:41But you should enjoy, would you recognize that you don't?
206. 13:45Don't be content to leave it there.
207. 13:47Man, bring that to the Lord.
208. 13:49If you recognize other areas in your life,
209. 13:51man, it's strong man.
210. 13:52I've been, man, Jeff, I've been struggling with this
211. 13:54since I've been saved.
212. 13:56That doesn't mean that you're supposed to give up.
213. 13:58That doesn't mean you're supposed to say,
214. 13:59well, I guess this is just a thing
215. 14:00that I'm just gonna deal with the rest of my life.
216. 14:03It don't have to be.
217. 14:04It doesn't have to be.
218. 14:06We should have the type of specificity and urgency
219. 14:11that the things that offend our God
220. 14:13of things that offend us. You've heard me say on this program numerous times, the sin that
221. 14:17should be most grievous to the believer is our own sin. It is only when we are grieved
222. 14:23by our own sin when we have the proper God-centered, biblically-based, eternally-laden
223. 14:31compassion to serve our brothers the right way. This type of introspection is one of the
224. 14:37graces that God gives us that enables us to contend for the faith that has been once
225. 14:41for all past unto us as saints in the context and culture
226. 14:44that he's planted us in without despising the harvest field.
227. 14:49When we survey the things that are going on around us,
228. 14:51it is high time for the saints of God to be saints of God.
229. 15:06Shining light into the darkness,
230. 15:08this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
231. 15:12Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III.
232. 15:15And I am elated to have on the program with me
233. 15:18a guest who is a brother in the faith who has been a stalwart source of information for me
234. 15:24over the years, especially during this program.
235. 15:27My guest is none other than Dr. George Barna, author of over 50 books, founder of the Barna
236. 15:34research group, which he's no longer operating, but he did found that organization.
237. 15:40He's currently serving as a professor at Arizona Christian University and the director of research
238. 15:45at the Cultural Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University. Dr. Bronner,
239. 15:51thank you for joining me here on the Hamilton Corner.
240. 15:53Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Oh, man, I am. Like I said, I'm elated to have
241. 16:00you on the program. I wanted to dive right in because you churn out a bevy of content. And
242. 16:06as I said in the intro, I along with many others utilize the research that you provide to aid
243. 16:13us in navigating this kind of cultural milieu that we have going on in society right now.
244. 16:18And one of the things that grabbed my attention that I told Jeff, and we've got to get Dr.
245. 16:22Brona on the program was the study that was commissioned that you ultimately end up publishing
246. 16:29as a result of your American worldview inventory, 2022, that revealed the top, the top line
247. 16:36of it is shocking results concerning the worldview of Christian pastors.
248. 16:43I want to ask you first and foremost, what led you to start your research on this particular
249. 16:49issue to try to get an idea as to the world view makeup of pastors in our nation?
250. 16:57Well, so long story, I'll try to write to the shortest possible a few years ago.
251. 17:01I realized I'm an old man now.
252. 17:03I don't have that much time left.
253. 17:04So I want to finish well.
254. 17:07What would that look like?
255. 17:08Went back to my most recent 200 national surveys, took notes on what did I learn from each of
256. 17:14And when I looked at the whole list of insights, the thing that popped out was that, you know,
257. 17:20everything points back to worldview.
258. 17:22It's all about worldview.
259. 17:24So we've got to focus on that.
260. 17:26So I thought, okay, I'm going to spend my last years really emphasizing that,
261. 17:31because I think that's the most important thing for the church at large to be focusing on.
262. 17:35And so we created the American worldview inventory that we run out of the Cultural Research Center in ACU.
263. 17:42And we've been doing that every year, but you know, what we found is that only 6% of American adults have a biblical worldview.
264. 17:50And to me, that raised the question of, well, wait a minute, if we've got
265. 17:55some of Americans claiming to be Christian, we've got more than a third of them attending church on a regular basis.
266. 18:01We've got more than 9 out of 10 households owning a Bible. What's going on here?
267. 18:06So we thought, well, let's go back and see what pastors make of all this.
268. 18:10And what we found is that more than four out of five of them believe they're doing a great job
269. 18:14at helping people develop a biblical worldview.
270. 18:19And sat back and thought about that for a while and said, well, something's wrong here.
271. 18:23There's a mismatch. Then we thought, well, let's check their worldview, because he can't do what you don't have.
272. 18:28And so we went back and did the national survey among the representative sampling of pastors,
273. 18:35pastors, all Christian churches in the country, and found that on average only 37% of all Christian
274. 18:44pastors have a biblical worldview.
275. 18:47So when you've got two out of three pastors who don't have a biblical worldview, that
276. 18:52helps to explain why it is that most Americans don't have one.
277. 18:58that in some ways even worse, only 2% of the parents of children under the age of 13 have
278. 19:06a biblical worldview and that's important because we know that a person's worldview is formed
279. 19:11between 15 to 18 months of age and 13 years of age.
280. 19:15We know that biblically it's a parent's responsibility to ensure that their child grows up knowing
281. 19:21loving and serving God of all their heart-minds, strength and soul.
282. 19:24That's their biggest task in life.
283. 19:27and only 2% have a biblical worldview. Again, you can't give what you don't have. 98% out
284. 19:32of every 100 of them don't have it. They can't turn to their pastors typically because their
285. 19:36pastors don't have it. So that really kind of describes the challenge that we have in
286. 19:41America of coming up with a whole different approach to how are we going to make sure that
287. 19:46in the future this is a nation where people are acting like Jesus because they can think
288. 19:52like Jesus. That is some of the most depressing commentary that I heard in quite some time.
289. 20:06And I learned a long time ago what is prevalent in the pulpit often amplified in the pew. So
290. 20:18the phenomena you just described in observing less than 6% of American adults having a
291. 20:25of the world view, then say, well, wait, well, what about the passes in our nation?
292. 20:29It seems to confirm that maxim to such a degree.
293. 20:33Now I want to take a few steps back just in case somebody's listening and they may not
294. 20:37know what we mean when we use the terminology.
295. 20:39I know what you mean and I'm confident many of our listeners know what you mean, but just
296. 20:42in case there may be some who don't know.
297. 20:44When you say a worldview, what is a worldview?
298. 20:48Well, everybody has a worldview.
299. 20:50This isn't something just for the people in the ivory towers.
300. 20:54Every individual has a worldview because essentially it is the intellectual, moral, spiritual, and
301. 21:00emotional filter that every one of us uses to make every decision that we make.
302. 21:07And so as we have experiences, as we gather information, as we ponder different things,
303. 21:16it all goes through our worldview and our ultimate decisions are a result of how we put that
304. 21:21information together with what we consider to be important and right and significant and
305. 21:26appropriate.
306. 21:28And so that worldview really is the decision-making center for every human being, every moment of
307. 21:35every day of their life.
308. 21:37And that's why worldview is so critical.
309. 21:40It's shocking to me that we spend so little time intentionally thinking about worldview,
310. 21:46And it's unfortunate that we spend so little time in our families, in our churches, in our
311. 21:52schools, in our personal relationships, strategically and intentionally considering what choices
312. 21:59our worldview is causing us to form and what we're going to do to help the next generation
313. 22:05currently developing its worldview, to develop one that really is going to make a difference
314. 22:11by honoring God.
315. 22:13And when I look through the breakdown, as you mentioned,
316. 22:1737% of all Christian pastors, in your research,
317. 22:21you went further and even broke it down based on
318. 22:25kind of some of the organizational roles
319. 22:27that are afforded in churches, senior pastors
320. 22:30versus assistant pastors, children's pastors, et cetera.
321. 22:35One of the things that just struck me
322. 22:38between the eyes, man, and in my heart,
323. 22:41was the paltry biblical worldview among purported children's
324. 22:47pastors and youth pastors.
325. 22:50And so the combination of that phenomenon
326. 22:54with what you just described, parents, 2% of parents,
327. 22:57having only 2% of parents having a biblical worldview,
328. 23:02to me that reveals, because I get the question often
329. 23:05on my program, Abraham, what has happened to our nation?
330. 23:08What has happened?
331. 23:08How do we get to where we've gotten?
332. 23:10And I say very candidly, we've discipled our way into where we are as a nation, not affirmatively
333. 23:15in many instances, but even by negligence, by refusing to obey the description to Deuteronomy
334. 23:206 Psalm 127, Malachi 2, Ephesians 6 and so on, that we've discipled our way into it and
335. 23:25the only way out is by discipling our way out from that.
336. 23:30When you see such a low number of a low percentage of children's and youth pastors with a Biblical
337. 23:36world view combining that with the
338. 23:38the culture of our parents
339. 23:40with the biblical worldview
340. 23:41what do those things combine to
341. 23:43communicate to you in that the
342. 23:44observation is observations you've made from your research
343. 23:48well it won't be a popular statement but
344. 23:51you asked me so tell you and that's that
345. 23:53it's actually a bit of a dangerous place to take your children to church
346. 23:58and this point america
347. 24:00because the chances of them
348. 24:02understanding what the bible is knowing that dot is
349. 24:06embracing Jesus Christ or who He is and what He's done for us.
350. 24:11I mean, all of those things are not likely to happen
351. 24:14at the typical Christian church.
352. 24:16Now obviously there are a lot of exceptions
353. 24:18across the country where there are great children's pastors,
354. 24:21great senior pastors, great ministries,
355. 24:24but I'm a sociologist and so I look at averages.
356. 24:28And on average, what we know is that you're better off
357. 24:31not going to a Christian church if you really want
358. 24:35to get the real truth about God, about Christ, about your own sin, about eternity, about
359. 24:42the scriptures, all of these things and more.
360. 24:45You'd be better off simply reading the Bible and finding someone who is a dynamic Christian,
361. 24:52somebody who does love God, somebody who has committed his life to following Jesus, someone
362. 24:57who reads the scriptures every day, someone who prays to God for guidance and for wisdom
363. 25:03every day and interacting with that person. And, oddly enough, what our research is also
364. 25:09showing is that's how most people are being most effectively discipled in America today.
365. 25:16And so, those are some of the things that go through my mind. I think of children's pastors
366. 25:22as being the single most significant pastor in any church. And yet, when I find that only
367. 25:27twelve percent of them
368. 25:30have a biblical world view
369. 25:32that's
370. 25:33to be more frightening
371. 25:35okay that having a ball
372. 25:37i mean it's it's the most serious
373. 25:39efficiency we have an american society today
374. 25:42in and so when you highlight characteristics like
375. 25:46people who
376. 25:47have bibles and read them every day and
377. 25:49who pray to god every day
378. 25:52these seem to be characteristics that in some instances and i'm so glad
379. 25:56uh... that you didn't ever do you did not endeavor to paint with a broad brush
380. 25:58which i didn't expect you would eat the i'd anyway as a sociologist
381. 26:02of course there are exceptions but you're dealing in averages
382. 26:05these are things that oftentimes
383. 26:07on average
384. 26:08that many people who identified themselves as pastors don't do
385. 26:13well and we have the evidence that in the surveys and so
386. 26:17i think this is one of those periods of time in american history where
387. 26:21as we've looked at our culture
388. 26:23A lot of people are very upset with the direction America is moving right now.
389. 26:28They're feeling enough pain that they're finally willing to maybe make some changes to
390. 26:33take more control of the situation.
391. 26:35Rather than handing it over to people in government, schools and other places, they realize it's
392. 26:41a government by the people, for the people, and therefore we have a responsibility, a duty,
393. 26:48and we have to do our homework, and we have to invest time and energy in that process.
394. 26:53the same situation spiritually in America where for so long we sat back and said, yeah,
395. 26:59let the pastor do it. Well, maybe we're in that period of time right now where looking
396. 27:05at the health and the state and well-being of churches in America. Hopefully that's painful
397. 27:10on us for most of us who are true followers of Christ to say, you know what, if that's
398. 27:16what we've been doing shame on us, we are the church. And so we need to take up that
399. 27:21responsibility and make sure that what we're being taught is biblical, that how we're behaving
400. 27:27in the culture is really advancing God's kingdom, that our mindset is right, that our
401. 27:32heart is right, and that this is, you know, this first article talks about this is a great
402. 27:38time for us to get on our knees and repent and ask the God would forgive us and show mercy
403. 27:43to us and help us to put things back together properly.
404. 27:47Amen well said
405. 27:49And you you really already alluded to this but I want to ask this question simply to allow you another opportunity
406. 27:57To assert your answer
407. 27:59So when people peruse your research and they're even hearing you now
408. 28:05And I made the statement earlier the only way forward for us is to disciple our way out of it to you
409. 28:10Evangelize and disciple our way out of where we are as a nation
410. 28:13And what would you prescribe to people who are listening to us who would say those things?
411. 28:18I mean, you mentioned earlier, find someone who is a Bible-leaving Christian in your immediate
412. 28:23sphere of influence who reads the Bible daily, who prays daily, and walk alongside them.
413. 28:29And unsurprisingly, that actually is the biblical example for discipleship anyway, is it not?
414. 28:34That's the very kind of thing that Jesus modeled for us.
415. 28:40So, you know, a few years back, I'd written a book called Revolution and talked about how
416. 28:46for me, I had to go through kind of a personal renaissance where instead of relying upon churches
417. 28:53and other people to do for me what God is expecting to do in my own life, I had to recognize
418. 29:00no, I'm called to be the church.
419. 29:02So wherever I am, no matter what time of day it is, no matter what the situation is, God
420. 29:07put me there intentionally to be salt and white to anyone whose life I can influence at that
421. 29:14moment in time.
422. 29:16And so you ask, what do I hope people will think as they read the research?
423. 29:21I hope they'll look in the mirror and they'll say, am I part of the problem?
424. 29:26What do I need to fix in my own life spiritually so that God can use me in ever greater ways
425. 29:33to bring about the spiritual renaissance and awakening that America needs to have.
426. 29:39And that will be recognizing that our calling is not to make money, it's not to be famous,
427. 29:45it's not to have a big house in the porch.
428. 29:47It's to be a disciple of Jesus Christ who at all times is thinking about what can I do
429. 29:55right now, right now to advance God's kingdom.
430. 29:58Who could I bless right now?
431. 30:00So that God is honored, God is pleased, God is respected, God is seen in all things.
432. 30:07These are the kinds of thoughts that we need to be having instead of what time is keeping
433. 30:12up with the Kardashians on tonight or whatever the name of that program is.
434. 30:16So it's kind of a mind shift, I think that the church in America needs to be going through.
435. 30:24My job is to be a messenger, just bring in some of the information so that we have a more
436. 30:29realistic understanding of our conditions both culturally and personally so that we can
437. 30:36invite God into our minds and hearts to make whatever changes he needs to make of us so that we
438. 30:43can really be the church. We can be a group of people, a community, a tribe that demonstrates our
439. 30:50love for each other and for other people because those are the greatest commandments he gave us.
440. 30:55that's what Jesus tells us in Mark 1229 to 31.
441. 31:00So if we understand that that's what we're supposed to be doing all day,
442. 31:05then maybe we can rearrange our schedules and our resources to really be disciples 24-7.
443. 31:12Hmmm, rearrange our schedules and our resources to be disciples 24-7.
444. 31:19profound wisdom from Dr. George Barner.
445. 31:25You do not want to move from where you are.
446. 31:28I'm so glad that we were able to work out having you on the program
447. 31:32because this, in my estimation, is the type of conversation
448. 31:37that needs to be noise to broad in our nation,
449. 31:40especially in particular amongst believers.
450. 31:45You do not want to miss the rest of this interview.
451. 31:47Dr. George Barner, professor at Arizona Christian University and Director of Research at the
452. 31:53Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University.
453. 32:07Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at EFR.net.
454. 32:12Back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
455. 32:17Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner.
456. 32:19Abraham Hamilton III here joined by Director of Cultural Research, sorry, Director of Research
457. 32:27at the Cultural Research Center at American Arizona Christian University. Dr. George Barna,
458. 32:34we've just been having in my opinion one of the most important conversations we can have
459. 32:38in our country right now and utilizing his skill and his expertise as a sociologist to
460. 32:45provide factual foundation for us to have these important conversations. Another one of Dr.
461. 32:52Garner's studies that just gripped me as I was preparing for this interview is one that
462. 33:00is described as an America's values study.
463. 33:05The byline or headline from this study says America's values identify possible means to
464. 33:11national unity.
465. 33:12So I want to invite you back in Dr. Barnard to just describe for the Hamilton Corner audience
466. 33:19what you found in the America's value study that led to this publication.
467. 33:26Well, as we did all this, we were trying to figure out what are the core values of Americans.
468. 33:34Because we've been looking at worldview, we have a pretty good grip on that now.
469. 33:39And one of the primary things that emanates from a person's worldview are their core values,
470. 33:44the things that tell them what is worse in our life.
471. 33:49One of the most fascinating outcomes of this study, which we did with an organization called
472. 33:55Americans One, they actually commissioned this study.
473. 33:58What we found is that there are a number of values that Americans have in common.
474. 34:04That number one, demonstrate that we're not as divided as we're being led to believe.
475. 34:10I believe that's something that's being used for political means by various individuals
476. 34:15groups and that it's not to our best interest, that that continues to prevail.
477. 34:23Secondly, we also found that there are a number of values that appear to have been in place
478. 34:30in America for more than two centuries.
479. 34:34David Barton and I, a few years ago, did a book together where we looked at the course
480. 34:38of history and where we're at now and how we got there.
481. 34:41And one of the things I do is spend a lot of time trying to identify what the core values
482. 34:45of colonial America.
483. 34:47And as we did that, and then I compare them to the core values of today, we've got about
484. 34:53a half-times of values that have been in place for almost, you know, 250 years.
485. 34:59And I would say, well, that pretty much has to represent the DNA of America.
486. 35:04And so let's not lose sight of those things and recognize that we've got this in common.
487. 35:10So if we want to rebuild our nation, maybe that's a place where we start looking at these things
488. 35:17that have always been part and parcel, part of the heartbeat of our nation and its people
489. 35:22and recognize this is who we are.
490. 35:25This is something that we're not going to give up on.
491. 35:28This is the foundation that we can be building upon.
492. 35:32And then we can move forward from there.
493. 35:33But we are not hopelessly divided.
494. 35:36are a group of people that has more in common than we've been like the police.
495. 35:40Man, I see you have those beautiful guitars behind you. You're strumming my note. You're
496. 35:45strumming my note because this is something I've said. I uneffectually describe our national
497. 35:51and legacy media as Gerbil Zink, you know, in dishonor of, you know, Hitler's Joseph Gerbil's
498. 35:58as Minister of Propaganda because our nation is not as polarized as Gerbil Zink purports
499. 36:06it to be.
500. 36:07And the note that I'm talking about that you're strumming that that's my note is that if we're
501. 36:12not as polarized as the media purports us to be, then why is this presentation the most
502. 36:19consistent and ubiquitous presentation?
503. 36:21We even have a complete transformation of our information centers based on this polarization
504. 36:27And it's largely because there are people, especially politicians, that profit, that benefit
505. 36:33from this perception of this extreme polarization, that's opposed to understanding, wait a minute,
506. 36:39there are still lots of things that as you pointed out, that are not only core values
507. 36:44in our nation, but that trace back all the way to all the way to America's colonial and
508. 36:49founding period.
509. 36:50So I want to ask you in light of that, what are some of those values?
510. 36:55I guess this is twofold question.
511. 36:56I know you love those compound questions.
512. 36:59Twofold question, what are some of those values
513. 37:02that date back to America's founding period,
514. 37:04the colonial era, and then moving forward,
515. 37:09what are the primary core values you've been able to identify
516. 37:13based on this American-Americans value study,
517. 37:17contemporarily?
518. 37:18Well, the ones that we've had in carbon
519. 37:21for hundreds of years include first and foremost
520. 37:25family. We believe that that needs to be the building block of our society. We believe that
521. 37:29that's a centerpiece of our own lives, that we invest ourselves in that, that it's important,
522. 37:36and that we're not going to give up on that. We look at values like being financially cautious,
523. 37:43being careful with money about how we think about it, how we use it, how we spend it,
524. 37:49as opposed to what the federal government is doing right now, which is just throwing that
525. 37:53kind of financial caution to the wind and saying, oh yeah, we're overspending by a trillion
526. 37:58dollars a year, we'll just make up more money. Well, that's not an American ideal. That's
527. 38:03not how we think about money in our own lives. Other kinds of values that are critical to
528. 38:09us hard work. Americans do believe that you should work for what you get. Now, we believe
529. 38:15that you should be rewarded for your hard work, but we're not afraid to put that kind of work
530. 38:20But we find humility is one of the values that's lasted for a quarter of a millennium.
531. 38:28And of course that certainly is a core biblical value that we're called to, is to be humble
532. 38:35before our God to recognize it's not about us.
533. 38:38It's about him and we're willing to have that kind of humility.
534. 38:42And interestingly, moderation is a big value for Americans.
535. 38:47And I say it's interesting because you look at the people who tend to be in political power
536. 38:52today.
537. 38:54They're not operating in terms of moderation.
538. 38:56They want radical, rapid change.
539. 38:59And what we found in this study related to people's values, because we also looked at
540. 39:04how this relates to their political desires, because the people are saying, we don't want
541. 39:08radical change in our society.
542. 39:10We want to stick with what state-american great.
543. 39:13We want to go back to the basics.
544. 39:15and they're probably were going to what you were talking about before
545. 39:18about the selfishness
546. 39:20about people
547. 39:21what we discovered is that
548. 39:22a huge majority of americans three out of four americans
549. 39:26so that they believe our political system is not broken
550. 39:29the problem is that it's being abused by many people who are powered today
551. 39:34they're looking out for their self-interest
552. 39:36rather than the public interest
553. 39:38and we need to get people who are really going to recognize common good
554. 39:42rather than the politicians personal
555. 39:45well said very well said
556. 39:48uh... as i uh...
557. 39:49perused your study i was
558. 39:54positive way
559. 39:55uh... surprised
560. 39:57to see how prevalent
561. 39:59across
562. 40:01demographic
563. 40:02boundaries or different demographic
564. 40:05how prevalent
565. 40:06the contemporary
566. 40:08uh... value of family
567. 40:11registered in our nation in our time
568. 40:14uh... it is it stood out as
569. 40:18one of the main sources of responses
570. 40:21that you got as you uh... did this did this study
571. 40:24what do you think that says
572. 40:27about our culture considering how how
573. 40:29prevalent
574. 40:30uh... family figured
575. 40:31in your research
576. 40:33after the public conversation you know what's being talked about the public
577. 40:39square
578. 40:40we found that eight out of ten americans said that they'd be willing to
579. 40:44die for
580. 40:45mmm or
581. 40:46fight to defend
582. 40:48the family they'd be willing to sacrifice precious resources
583. 40:51for family that there was nothing close frankly to that
584. 40:55second on the list in terms of of values that were what was happiness
585. 40:59but i mean that that was you know a little bit farther down the list
586. 41:03so family is a big big deal to americans
587. 41:06and rather than pushing that issue aside say well let's think about other
588. 41:10That really needs to be what we go back to and we have some hard, difficult, honest conversations
589. 41:17with each other about what does family mean, what does it look like, what do we need to do,
590. 41:22to defend it, why are we willing to die for it, why is it so important to us, and get back
591. 41:28to the fact that, you know what, it's because God planted that inside of us.
592. 41:33This is the cornerstone of society that he gave to us.
593. 41:37gave to us was not idea it was his idea and so the more that we're willing to
594. 41:42work with him to defend and take care of family the better off we're gonna be
595. 41:47hmm and now weaving together what we talked about in the previous segment and
596. 41:51what we're discussing now it is it would be robustly clear that when you see
597. 41:57less than two percent of adults have a biblical worldview less than 30 37 only
598. 42:0130% of them are sent christian pastors have a biblical worldview when you
599. 42:04extrapolate that or apply it into the context where family figures prominently, it would be relatively obvious that there are many in our American populace and American and our Constitution Republic who wouldn't necessarily adhere to a biblical morality concerning family.
600. 42:19Do you think, well, one, do you agree with that assessment? Then two, do you think that lack of biblical morality is an impediment to have the type of dialogues in our society about family that are necessary?
601. 42:30Yeah, definitely.
602. 42:32I mean, when we look at the data, what we find is that fewer and fewer people believe
603. 42:36that the Bible is a trustworthy guide for life and is reliable as a guide, spend relevant
604. 42:43as a guide for life today.
605. 42:45And I think what that shows is the erosion of people's trust in God's Word largely through
606. 42:53the most influential source in American society today, which is the media.
607. 42:59And so if we can help people not simply feel good about their willingness to give up on
608. 43:06God's Word, but maybe take a few steps back and start thinking philosophically about what
609. 43:13life is, where it comes from, why it's important, all of these kinds of seminal questions about
610. 43:20why you're Stephen Bonner to get out of bed the morning.
611. 43:22These are the kinds of things that Americans no longer think about.
612. 43:26What I've found over the course of doing this type of research for more than 40 years now
613. 43:31is that Americans are not reflective people, we're people of action.
614. 43:36We like to make stuff happen, we like to do things, we like to have a list of our accomplishments
615. 43:42that shows how significant we are, how capable we are, how smart we are.
616. 43:46And yet the reality is at some point we have to go back and answer those fundamental questions
617. 43:51about how did I get here, why am I here.
618. 43:55types of things so that each decision that we make every day whether we want to
619. 44:00be active or reflective
620. 44:01either way
621. 44:02we've got to go back to the foundations the basics
622. 44:05and figure out how it all fits together
623. 44:09i have two questions i'm not going to ask you to compound fashion
624. 44:12uh... in in light of even observing
625. 44:16the active nature of the american people is opposed to being reflective but the
626. 44:19necessity of of of doing him to say in both
627. 44:23what are the kinds of conversations you think we need to have concerning family
628. 44:27considering
629. 44:28how prevently it figures in the hearts and minds of most americans
630. 44:32well every i think one of the first question is that we need to be talking
631. 44:36about is
632. 44:37uh... what do we perceive to be our purpose in life
633. 44:41that's interesting we did a
634. 44:43huge national study with millennials a little while ago
635. 44:47and what we discovered is that three out of four of them say they don't have a
636. 44:50sense of purpose for their life
637. 44:52But when you don't have purpose guiding you down a particular path, any kind of activity
638. 44:58is admissible.
639. 44:59Any kind of choice that you make seems just as good as any other.
640. 45:04And so first of all, figuring out what is the purpose of life and what is the purpose
641. 45:09of my life is a good starting point.
642. 45:12And then following that up with the question of how would we define success in life?
643. 45:19Because what we find is that the vast majority of Americans do not believe in the biblical
644. 45:24perspective on that, which is success is nothing more but nothing less than consistent obedience
645. 45:31to God.
646. 45:32Now, a lot of people would argue with that say, consistent obedience to God, I'm not even
647. 45:37sure I believe in God.
648. 45:39Great.
649. 45:40Let's make that our third question.
650. 45:42Does God exist?
651. 45:43How do we know that?
652. 45:44What do we know about Him?
653. 45:46difference does the existence of God make in your life and in the world at large.
654. 45:51These are the kinds of trails that we want to go down answering questions that really
655. 45:56matter so that when we decide how am I going to spend my time today?
656. 46:02How am I going to use my resources today?
657. 46:05We have a purpose, we have a success objective and it's all founded, it's all based upon a
658. 46:12realistic perspective of what life is about.
659. 46:16answers are so profound on a number of fronts because in our modern day and I'm pretty confident
660. 46:21that this is directly attributable to the diminishment of a biblical worldview in our society. But a lot
661. 46:26of the things that we purport today as being a pursuit of liberty isn't a pursuit of liberty,
662. 46:33it's a pursuit of human autonomy. Liberty as understood by our founders included a function that was
663. 46:39consistent with our designed distinction as God created us.
664. 46:44Now we're seeking to employ kind of a humanistic autonomy.
665. 46:49And the other question I'm just gonna get to,
666. 46:50but I hear the disrespectful music.
667. 46:52We won't have time to get to it.
668. 46:53Maybe I have to have you back on so we can get to this.
669. 46:56You make the observation in your research about core values
670. 47:00and how they are aided by peripheral values.
671. 47:03But because we're running out of time,
672. 47:05we won't get into that.
673. 47:06So, and I won't ask you on the air while you come back,
674. 47:09But we'll ask you off air if we can set up a time to have you back when I said to set up time now
675. 47:14But we'll I'll get Jeff with your schedulers and see if we can have you back is that okay with you?
676. 47:19I would be honored to come back. I enjoy talking with you about things like this because they matter
677. 47:24I don't want to talk about peripheral issues
678. 47:28Amen, I want to talk about the stuff that patterns because America is losing its focus on the things that matter
679. 47:34Well said dr. George Barnard ladies and gentlemen
680. 47:37The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
681. 47:46Family Association or American Family Radio.