Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson, a Harvard trained developmental biologist, has authored a monumental shift in the creation-evolution debate through genetic research.

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1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:31Good evening everybody.
12. 0:34Welcome to the Hamilton Corner here on American Family Radio.
13. 0:38I am your host Abraham Hamilton III,
14. 0:40and I'm just going to tell you buckle up.
15. 0:43One of the things I seek to accomplish through this program
16. 0:47is to present you with resources that aid you and equip you
17. 0:52in the cultivation of a biblical worldview,
18. 0:56And that also bolsters the confidence that we all can enjoy in resting, you know, 10 toes down on God's holy word.
19. 1:10It is, in fact, the holy word of God.
20. 1:14So you definitely want to tune into today's show and share it with your friends and family members,
21. 1:19because this is going to going to be, I expect this to be a tremendous program today.
22. 1:26And I'll just give you a hint. It's not because of me.
23. 1:31At this very moment, many of you, if not most of you are transitioning from your part time jobs, where you generate an income to your full time jobs, where you cultivate an outcome.
24. 1:39And as you do so, I want to remind you to make your move with intentionality, understanding the primacy that God places on family before there was ever a modern iterations of civil government before.
25. 1:50There was an order of priests, prophets before there was a New Testament church.
26. 1:54God established a family.
27. 1:57The first human institution that God established was the family, with marriage at the center,
28. 2:02the first command that God gave to mankind before he said, you shall not murder, before
29. 2:09he said, you know, honor your father and mother, the first command God gave to mankind
30. 2:15was issued within the familial context.
31. 2:18All of that, all of that is intentional because God knows that the foundation of God is the
32. 2:24The fundamental building block of any assembly of believers is the family.
33. 2:29The fundamental building block of any society or civilization is the family.
34. 2:35We will never be able to out-politik, out-vote, out-Supreme Court opinion,
35. 2:43out-church deficiencies that abound in the home.
36. 2:47What goes on in your house and in my house is far more important than what goes on.
37. 2:56in the White House, it would be prudent for us to recognize that and to govern ourselves accordingly.
38. 3:04So as you're making your transition right now, please do so with intentionality.
39. 3:09If you have not started this one of the most important things you can do as a family is
40. 3:13exalt the Lord right in your home, worship the Lord together in song, worship the Lord
41. 3:18together by peering into his word.
42. 3:19It doesn't have to be, you know, a three hour service, you know, 10 minutes with consistency.
43. 3:25You want him read a few verses together.
44. 3:27That even require any type of exposition, but set the course to glorify the Lord in your
45. 3:33homes.
46. 3:34One of the most important things we can do for our children, if you're in the life stage
47. 3:37as I am with young children still in your home, is that they are able to see the priority
48. 3:44that you place on worshiping the Lord.
49. 3:47We fathers, fathers, if you're listening to me, God has ordained us to lead in this endeavor,
50. 3:52to be, you know, passive straps on our wives' backs and we wait for them to take the initiative.
51. 3:58No, let we take the initiative in doing these things. If you have a question as a way you
52. 4:03should start with the book of Proverbs. Start with the book of Proverbs. Take your time walking
53. 4:07through that book, but it's vitally vitally important that we lead our families in this
54. 4:14manner. Speaking of that, to the word of God we go. I didn't even plan it this way, but
55. 4:18We're going to start in the book of Proverbs today.
56. 4:20Proverbs chapter eight,
57. 4:22verses 32 through 36.
58. 4:26Proverbs chapter eight,
59. 4:28verses 32 through 36.
60. 4:30And this is what God's word says.
61. 4:32And now, let me, before I read, let me say this.
62. 4:35In this chapter, wisdom is personified.
63. 4:39So wisdom is depicted as taking on a role,
64. 4:44as if wisdom itself is a person.
65. 4:47and this person that is wisdom is synonymous with God in this text.
66. 4:50Okay?
67. 4:51So it is wisdom from God.
68. 4:54The wisdom of God is personified, meaning that this concept is given human-like
69. 4:59characteristics in the literary framework for this portion of scripture.
70. 5:05All right.
71. 5:07Proverbs 832.
72. 5:09And now, oh, sons, listen to me.
73. 5:13And this is saying listen to me wisdom is saying listen to me.
74. 5:15Now, oh, sons, listen to me.
75. 5:17Blessed are those who keep my ways.
76. 5:23Hear instruction and be wise.
77. 5:28Do not neglect it."
78. 5:31Or some translations there said,
79. 5:33refuse it not, refuse it not.
80. 5:35Blessed is the one who listens to me.
81. 5:39This is wisdom, right?
82. 5:40Blessed is the one who listens to me.
83. 5:42Wisdom, watching daily at my gates or watching daily at my doorposts.
84. 5:49Waiting beside my doors for whoever finds me, that is wisdom again, finds life and obtains favor from the Lord.
85. 6:06But he who fails to find me injures himself. All who hate me love death."
86. 6:19Verse 36 right there at the end,
87. 6:22the King James renders that passage,
88. 6:24he that sineth against me wisdom,
89. 6:27wrongeth his own soul,
90. 6:32wrongeth his own soul.
91. 6:34A couple of things I wanna point out.
92. 6:37Verse 33, here instruction and be wise.
93. 6:43The scripture is conveyed in such a way
94. 6:48to where God is explaining,
95. 6:49God is articulating that wisdom is being presented
96. 6:54with consistency, that wisdom is available to the people
97. 6:59with consistency, but the people have an obligation
98. 7:03to hear it, to listen to the wisdom, to heed the instruction.
99. 7:10It is by heeding the instruction that we become wise.
100. 7:16The book of Proverbs talks repeatedly about wisdom,
101. 7:19knowledge and understanding,
102. 7:20knowledge, the acquisition of information,
103. 7:23wisdom, the proper ready application of knowledge.
104. 7:28How should this information be applied?
105. 7:31Understanding the proper perspective concerning
106. 7:34the information that's acquired
107. 7:36and the application of that information.
108. 7:38Knowledge, wisdom and understanding.
109. 7:40The same chapter, if you read early in verse five,
110. 7:44it says, oh, simple ones, learn prudence.
111. 7:49If we are imprudent, we lack wisdom,
112. 7:52we don't have to stay in that condition.
113. 7:54that each and every one of us has the privilege
114. 7:56and opportunity to become wise,
115. 8:00to become wise.
116. 8:02The fulcrum of wisdom is God's holy word.
117. 8:07The entrance of your law, Lord brings light.
118. 8:13The word of God makes wise the simple.
119. 8:17Remember in the New Testament,
120. 8:18we would say it about Peter and John,
121. 8:21You know, that confounded the erudite scholars of the day and members of the Sanhedrin.
122. 8:32Who are these men?
123. 8:33Where have they been trained?
124. 8:35Who has taught them the scripture?
125. 8:40And then they had to recognize, oh, these men have been with Jesus.
126. 8:47If we lack wisdom, we don't have to stay in that condition.
127. 8:50But getting back to verse 33 in chapter 8, here in instruction and be wise.
128. 8:56Refuse it not.
129. 9:00Many of us suffer at varying degrees
130. 9:07due to refusing wisdom.
131. 9:13Verse 34,
132. 9:14Blessed is the one who listens to me
133. 9:17watching daily at my gates.
134. 9:21The imbibing, the consuming,
135. 9:23the hearing wisdom is something that God presents us
136. 9:27with the opportunity to do with regularity
137. 9:30and with consistency, watching daily at my gates.
138. 9:36This is one of the primary reasons
139. 9:37why I set my course to make it my fast habit
140. 9:41to consume God's word daily.
141. 9:44I don't read the scripture to find something slick
142. 9:46to come on a radio and say,
143. 9:48I don't read the scripture so I have something to preach.
144. 9:50I read the scripture to encounter the King of glory.
145. 9:53That peering into God's holy word gives me the opportunity
146. 9:56to peer into the mind of God.
147. 10:01what better way to navigate the terrains and landmines of life than to have omniscience,
148. 10:07omnipotence and omnipresence as my shepherd, as my guide.
149. 10:13I'll never forget a couple days before I was sent to get married, actually a couple weeks,
150. 10:21in the gravity of what I was entering into began to just hit me.
151. 10:25I was like, oh man, I'm about to take on the responsibility of a family.
152. 10:30And I said, Lord, I've seen a lot of things.
153. 10:37The things I've seen that I don't want to repeat,
154. 10:40but what am I to affirmatively pursue?
155. 10:43And I stretched out on my little big apartment floor
156. 10:45and laying prostrate before the Lord
157. 10:47and crying out to the Lord in prayer
158. 10:51and delving into the Lord's word.
159. 10:52And the Lord by His grace walked me through
160. 10:55a lot of the things y'all hear me talk about
161. 10:56on this program.
162. 10:57When my wife and I are sharing,
163. 11:00it was a product of nothing other than seeking the Lord
164. 11:02in prayer and peering into His holy word.
165. 11:10Verse 35 says,
166. 11:11for whoever finds me finds wisdom finds life.
167. 11:17But verse 36, but he who fails to find me
168. 11:21injures himself.
169. 11:23Where as I mentioned before,
170. 11:24he who sins against wisdom,
171. 11:26sineth against wisdom,
172. 11:27wrongeth his own soul.
173. 11:31It is because the word of God that I recognized,
174. 11:34learning exclusively by experience,
175. 11:37experience is a fool's errand.
176. 11:43Why do I have the touch to still to know that is hot?
177. 11:45When I have God's word that says AOA, that stove is hot.
178. 11:50When I take him at his word, I acquire the wisdom that is there without having to acquire the scar
179. 11:57that would develop from me placing hand to stove.
180. 12:03No, as a Christ follower, we have the glorious perch to be able to ascribe wisdom by primarily
181. 12:13Consuming God's word because it is a light into our feet and a lamp into our past
182. 12:22When the Lord says hey shun the very appearance of evil
183. 12:29I don't need to have an experience where I get consumed and evil to make me know hey, you know next time
184. 12:34I'm gonna shun the very appearance of evil. No God's already told me a shun the appearance of evil
185. 12:41Which then leads me to oh Lord. What's evil?
186. 12:44The Lord lays out in his word
187. 12:47The same chapter, look at verse 13.
188. 12:52The fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil.
189. 12:55Oh, God is love.
190. 12:59Yeah, he loves.
191. 13:00But not too long ago, I took my family to go see the logo's
192. 13:05theater's production of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
193. 13:08He has Lewis's seminal work.
194. 13:11Oh, man, it was phenomenal.
195. 13:13It was phenomenal.
196. 13:14But they repeated a line.
197. 13:16He was asking about Azlian, the character in scripture that is
198. 13:20representative of God. And the question was, who has land? Is he safe? And the answer was,
199. 13:36oh, no, he's not safe, but he's good. Our God is one of inexhaustible mercy, but also severity.
200. 13:55It is wise for us to take him at his word. The one who fails to find wisdom or the one who
201. 14:02He sends against wisdom wrongs his own soul.
202. 14:07Verse 36 concludes with,
203. 14:09All who hate me, all who hate wisdom, love death.
204. 14:18To hate wisdom, to despise wisdom is to love death.
205. 14:26Don't refuse the wisdom.
206. 14:28Hear instruction, watch daily for it.
207. 14:34And as a result, you will tangibly experience
208. 14:38the biblical truth that the wisdom of God makes wise the simple.
209. 14:44And you will be empowered by His grace
210. 14:47to navigate your life's course.
211. 14:49And the purpose for which God caused you to be born.
212. 14:53You will be able to fulfill it
213. 14:55with a glorious testimony of rejoicing.
214. 15:00I'm very concerned about the current
215. 15:02young adult Christian fiction genre.
216. 15:04I read or started reading over two dozen Christian
217. 15:07Y novels.
218. 15:08Many never mentioned Jesus, and many had empty or confusing Christian allegories.
219. 15:14How can we offer our children real hope when we are simply repackaging what the world offers?
220. 15:19Let's look to our Creator God to help us write better stories.
221. 15:23Find the full article Read on Me Weight by me, Joy Looshes, on thestand.net
222. 15:35Liden to the Darkness This is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
223. 15:41Welcome to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third here.
224. 15:44Oh guys, I am so excited to have on the program with me, a man who's worked.
225. 15:49I've become familiar with recently.
226. 15:51I've just been just overwhelmed, frankly, with the wonderful work that God has brought
227. 15:58to the fore through this brother.
228. 15:59He is a Harvard trained biologist, currently a research biologist with Antis and Genesis.
229. 16:06He has a bachelor, bachelors in molecular biology and bioinformatics.
230. 16:11He has published, this is now the fourth book, I believe, if I'm right there, Untold Numbers
231. 16:17of Chapters He's contributed to.
232. 16:19He's published technical papers, research presentations, research abstracts, lay articles.
233. 16:25I'm speaking of none other than Dr. Nathaniel Jensen, which most importantly, from my perspective,
234. 16:30and I believe our audience will agree that he's also a fellow brother in Christ, Dr.
235. 16:34for joining us here on The Hamilton Corner.
236. 16:37Thanks so much for having me on Abraham.
237. 16:39Oh man, it is absolutely my pleasure.
238. 16:43The work you've put together here,
239. 16:44really your previous works as well,
240. 16:46but this one in particular, they had names,
241. 16:49tracing the history of the North American indigenous people.
242. 16:53If you're watching the show, I'm holding the book in my hand.
243. 16:56You absolutely have to get this.
244. 16:59It truly is a treasure.
245. 17:02But before I get too far for you, Dr. Jeanson,
246. 17:04Would you just share a bit with our audience here,
247. 17:06how you came to know Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
248. 17:12To make a long story short and sketch
249. 17:14a rather convoluted story with just the highlights.
250. 17:17I grew up in a Christian home, heard the gospel
251. 17:19from an early age, didn't wanna go to hell,
252. 17:21prayed the sinners prayer many times.
253. 17:23By the time we got to my teens
254. 17:24and of course began to process more of this,
255. 17:28the concerns about assurance of salvation nagged at me,
256. 17:32gnawed at me and so my mother's German,
257. 17:34We are in Germany, that's the occasion, talking with my dad again.
258. 17:37I don't know, I'm saved.
259. 17:38So he took me to first John, ironic because first John says, you can know you're not saved
260. 17:42if you're living a pattern of sin.
261. 17:45And that's what I did for most of my teen years.
262. 17:47I told myself I wasn't because in a Christian.
263. 17:49So for me, that struggle was lost in pornography in a Christian home.
264. 17:52There isn't much opportunity.
265. 17:53So it's easy to deceive oneself, easy for me to deceive myself saying, well, it's not really
266. 17:58a habit or I was got baptized during that time saying, and of course you have to give
267. 18:02your testimony.
268. 18:03Well, I've been struggling with lust, but I stopped Friday.
269. 18:07It's just so laughably ridiculous, but I believe it.
270. 18:09I mean, that's what I was going to do genuinely.
271. 18:11Thankfully, I think I got sick or something.
272. 18:13It didn't happen because that would have been a farce.
273. 18:15And that's been a longstanding struggle.
274. 18:18Again, outwardly, I was always the model child, which means I was very good at hiding
275. 18:22sin and keeping the secrets of my heart away from people.
276. 18:27And it wasn't really until graduate school, again, going to church this whole time,
277. 18:30knowing the gospel, knowing the scriptures thoroughly,
278. 18:33but not being able to connect the dots
279. 18:34between what does it mean to trust Jesus?
280. 18:36I mean, I'm promising, so trusting Jesus
281. 18:38should produce God-deliving.
282. 18:40I don't earn my salvation, but what am I missing?
283. 18:43And I'd say half of the graduate school,
284. 18:45for reasons I can't really explain,
285. 18:47other than just these questions nagging at me,
286. 18:49and I'm like, well, let's just sit with the scriptures.
287. 18:51So I remember one night,
288. 18:52read the book of Hebrews in one sitting basically,
289. 18:54and just chewing on this, chewing on this.
290. 18:57Eventually, I'd say God opened my eyes
291. 18:58to see that the Bible teaches the beauty of holiness.
292. 19:02And we think of, I mean, I guess I grew up thinking holiness,
293. 19:05or I should say I grew up thinking beauty is something
294. 19:08subjective, it's just a matter of preference.
295. 19:10But I think the Bible teaches objectively,
296. 19:12holiness is beautiful, God is holy and glorious
297. 19:15and beautiful in his holiness.
298. 19:17That's the hope of heaven.
299. 19:18And so if someone comes to Christ and doesn't want that,
300. 19:22if that's not a happy eternity to you,
301. 19:26then there's no point being a Christian.
302. 19:27And so finally be able to say, I'm like, aha, that's the point I'd say when the gospel went
303. 19:31from being old news, because I'd heard it for so long, but again, it just, like something's
304. 19:37not working to being good news.
305. 19:39Aha, yes, this is the hope of heaven.
306. 19:41This is the joy of coming to Christ.
307. 19:44Sins washed away and not just consequences of sin, because there are those, of course, and
308. 19:49that's, I feel like what kept me out of maybe even greater sin is simply not liking the consequences
309. 19:55and being in a Christian home.
310. 19:57There's plenty of consequences if you're caught in sin, thankfully, you know, prevents even
311. 20:01in greater tragedy.
312. 20:02So being able to see, no, it's not just leaving that or avoiding that, but there's an attractive
313. 20:09joy in living pure and living holy.
314. 20:14And that's what really, I guess you could say, maybe that's when I was born again.
315. 20:18I don't know the exact point other than that's when again, the gospel became good news once
316. 20:24again or for the first time rather than just what I've heard all my life or old news.
317. 20:30Wow. So how does that impact if at all your decision to pursue an education in scientific
318. 20:39discipline in particular development of biology as you earned your PhD from Harvard?
319. 20:46I'd say it changed my ambitions when I went to graduate school or redirected them, maybe
320. 20:52is the better term. When I went to graduate school, I had read in high school, I think,
321. 20:55an idea about cancer, how it originates. That was my interest. My grandmother died of cancer,
322. 20:59but I was just interested in medical questions. And I swallowed that quack idea, I know now,
323. 21:04hookline and sinker. But wanted to go to graduate school, work on cancer. My thought was I'd get
324. 21:10a PhD. I'd win the Nobel Prize by curing cancer, and then I'd have a platform to preach the gospel.
325. 21:15In theory, noble ambitions, but easily contaminated by selfish ambition, which it was in my case.
326. 21:20And so halfway through graduate school, working in all this,
327. 21:24working on cancer research or something related to it,
328. 21:26I thought, OK, well, instead of going that direction,
329. 21:28which doesn't seem to be working for me,
330. 21:30I mean, anyone can go into the secular workforce
331. 21:32and be a light that's a noble pursuit.
332. 21:35But I thought, what can I do now?
333. 21:37There's another long story having to do with Luke 16,
334. 21:40parable the unjust steward, which I was delighted to find out
335. 21:43after I had studied it, that Jim Elliott's motivating verse
336. 21:46to go to the jungle and take the gospel
337. 21:48to the tribes of Ecuador was from that
338. 21:50same passage and in his famous phrase about, you know, he's no fool who gives what he cannot
339. 21:54keep to gain what he cannot lose. All that kind of channel my vision towards what can I
340. 21:59do with my degree, you know, forthcoming degree because I wasn't finished yet, to accomplish
341. 22:05something maybe more directly kingdom relevant, gain eternal reward, advance the kingdom, that
342. 22:12sort of thing. I considered overseas missions just kind of dropping at all, actually not
343. 22:15dropping at all, but using my degree maybe to get into closed countries, Ted making in
344. 22:19sense of maybe getting to Saudi Arabia. So the ambition didn't change as the direction
345. 22:23didn't aim high. That fell through thankfully because I can look back now and see, okay,
346. 22:30if you're going to church plant, you probably should be of the same character of a pastor
347. 22:36or elder or someone. That's a hostile, difficult environment. And you have to be able to survive.
348. 22:42And I can look back and say that was just very spiritually immature and probably would
349. 22:46have flamed out very quickly. So thankfully the Lord prevented all that. So I got to the
350. 22:50end of graduate school several years later was trying to think through, now what do I
351. 22:55do? I thought about going to seminary. I naively thought seminary was you just go and learn
352. 22:59the Bible and instead of it being a place where they teach you how to teach the Bible.
353. 23:04And kind of as an afterthought, I thought, let me let me join the Institute for Creation
354. 23:07Research in that was 2009, where I can maybe draw on how I've been trained but accomplish
355. 23:12or something that way.
356. 23:13And I guess once a scientist, always a scientist.
357. 23:15So I thought this is an experiment,
358. 23:17everything's a experiment in life if you're a scientist
359. 23:19and so that experiment is now 15 years in the making.
360. 23:22And I'm glad to have chased this direction.
361. 23:25Man, praise God, it's amazing how God's gracious to us
362. 23:29is exemplified in our lives, not only by his affirmative
363. 23:35direction and acquiescence, I want to say acquiescence,
364. 23:38but affirmative direction that's consistent with what we
365. 23:40but also in him keeping us away from things
366. 23:43that are not best for us.
367. 23:45That's just amazing to hear and to learn.
368. 23:48Now I wanna turn a bit and thank you for sharing that.
369. 23:51It's so edifying for me personally and for our audience
370. 23:54to just bask in the glory of God,
371. 23:58how he draws various members of his family
372. 24:01to him for regeneration.
373. 24:03But this book, they had names, is the product.
374. 24:08And it said the conclusions in this book
375. 24:10based on more than a decade of a consistent pattern of making testable genetic predictions.
376. 24:17I know you said of this book that it represents a monumental reversal in the history of the
377. 24:21creation of evolution debate.
378. 24:23How does they had names do that?
379. 24:26How does it represent a monument or reversal in the history of the creation and evolution
380. 24:30debate?
381. 24:31Let me sketch some of the history.
382. 24:32I think that makes it clearer then.
383. 24:35And some of the history I've had to learn because I was born 1980 and I learned after the
384. 24:39fact that really the heyday of creation science, a world that no longer exists but must have
385. 24:44been exciting to live in, was in the 1970s where people like Henry Morris who founded
386. 24:49the Institute for Creation Research, Duane Gish, they did debates in university campuses,
387. 24:53secular campuses.
388. 24:55I have my office here, I book from the printed version of their acts in facts from I think
389. 25:001976 and they were reviewing all the colleges they had gone to just this laundry list of
390. 25:04places that we'd never get into now. And thousands of students coming out, unbelievers coming out,
391. 25:09hearing this for the first time, it just was really exciting. It led to introduction of creation
392. 25:14science into the public schools. And all that got shut down basically right around the beginning of
393. 25:18the 80s for a couple of reasons. The debates, the evolutionists will admit they were unprepared for.
394. 25:24They thought they were just going to hear a sermon and then they just, you know,
395. 25:26blambass them with science. And instead, Morris and Gish got up and articulated cogent scientific
396. 25:32arguments against evolution. Morris had four or five points he summarized about
397. 25:36improbability of life-evolving, gaps in the fossil record, and so on. And the
398. 25:42evolutionist regrouped, I think it was Stephen Jay Gould who eventually advised
399. 25:45his fellow evolutionists to say, look, the best we can do is a tie. He of course
400. 25:49wouldn't admit that the reason was because of the evidence he just would
401. 25:53chalk it up to, well, they're just good debaters. They're good at rhetoric and such.
402. 25:57but observing practically, we're not doing so hot.
403. 26:02This doesn't help us, so please stop.
404. 26:04And you can see that even more recently,
405. 26:06when Ken Ham debated Bill Nye, the evolutionary community,
406. 26:09blasted Bill Nye saying,
407. 26:11what are you doing giving Ken Ham a platform?
408. 26:12This is not helping our cause.
409. 26:14So all that got shut down,
410. 26:16and then the public school element got shut down too,
411. 26:18because of court cases in the 1980s,
412. 26:21a federal court decision with an Arkansas law in 1982,
413. 26:23and a Supreme Court decision with a Louisiana law in 1987.
414. 26:27And that's what's dictated the current environment.
415. 26:29And that's what's laid down, in a sense,
416. 26:33a to-do list for creation scientists.
417. 26:35So if I can use an analogy, in the 1970s,
418. 26:38I'd say we did a great job doing lawyerly work.
419. 26:41In a sense, prior to that point,
420. 26:43the evolutionists had built their case.
421. 26:44Darwin's ideas had been around for 100 years.
422. 26:46That was what was in the public school.
423. 26:48Students were hearing this.
424. 26:49And then creationists came along, like Morrison Gishan said,
425. 26:52let's cross-examine it.
426. 26:53Here's the holds in the argument.
427. 26:55Here's the assumptions that they make.
428. 26:56here's data that they've missed, and they did a good job.
429. 26:59And I think that's probably part of the reason
430. 27:00I've all got shut down.
431. 27:01It was too successful for the evolutionists.
432. 27:04And they said that's not enough.
433. 27:06If you want to be in the public schools,
434. 27:07if you want to call yourself a scientist,
435. 27:09you want to do science,
436. 27:10you need to basically do detective work.
437. 27:12Go find a case, get your own data, gather evidence,
438. 27:15and solve it.
439. 27:17And that's been the environment I grew up in knowing
440. 27:20we've got to make predictions that future experiments
441. 27:22could reveal to be true or false.
442. 27:23So basically, we have to go do detective work, not just cross-examination of the evidence,
443. 27:28though that's, I think, very good, persuasive and effective.
444. 27:31And so that's what I've been doing for the past 15 years.
445. 27:34When I joined the Institute for Creation Research in 2009, the CEO tasked me with developing
446. 27:38a biology research program, which I'm thinking, okay, we've got to make predictions.
447. 27:43We've got to do some sort of detective work.
448. 27:44Let's find the questions.
449. 27:45Let's find the tools, and let's go get it.
450. 27:47And take a long story short then.
451. 27:50But this latest book represents, they had names, is the fulfillment of predictions.
452. 27:54It's bonafide detective work going out and solving a case, and to me what makes it even
453. 27:58more exciting is in the evolutionary community.
454. 28:02It's not just that they're demanding that creation scientists do this.
455. 28:06But if you look at what the evolutionists have said about the pre-European Americas, what
456. 28:10sort of answer do they have?
457. 28:12It's kind of like a cold case for them.
458. 28:14I didn't learn about it in school.
459. 28:15I went to home school and then through eighth grade and then in the Christian high school.
460. 28:19But even in secular schools, virtually nothing is taught other than a vague, well, there was
461. 28:23this migration 15,000 years ago and then, you know, ask someone, what was the greatest battle?
462. 28:29Who were the victors?
463. 28:30Who were the losers?
464. 28:31Who was fighting?
465. 28:32Where did they come from?
466. 28:33There are just no answers out there.
467. 28:34And I think we've seen the evidence of this on YouTube where when we do videos on this topic,
468. 28:39it gets lots of views.
469. 28:40It gets unbelievers who contact me.
470. 28:41I think because this is scratching a niche.
471. 28:44So to summarize then, this is what I'd say a watershed moment, not just because of this
472. 28:49because I'm trying to pat myself in the back, but in light of this history, it's doing exactly
473. 28:53what the courts have demanded, number one.
474. 28:55Number two, it's on a topic that the evolutionists have not been able to solve, not have had good
475. 29:02answers.
476. 29:03And so I think there's potential to change public opinion.
477. 29:06And thirdly then, really the practical outcome is we have the basis then for rolling back
478. 29:10these laws that keep creation science out, and I should add here.
479. 29:15statistic, I found an answer last summer on statistics on evolution. So just to tell one
480. 29:21more story here. Go ahead, Colin.
481. 29:23Yeah, go ahead.
482. 29:24One, Colin.
483. 29:25Journalistic question I get, sort of a gotcha question. Journalists like to ask secular
484. 29:28journalists, you know, if I'm right, if answers in Genesis is right, if I CR is correct in
485. 29:33their statements, why does 99% of the scientific community disagree with us? And those are publicly
486. 29:39available stats, the PhDs are 99% evolutionists. And what they want me to say is one of two
487. 29:44two bad answers. Either they want me to say, well, I just don't believe in science at all.
488. 29:49You know, it looked like a fool then. Or they want me to say, you know, Romans one aside,
489. 29:53they want me to say something like, well, I think there's this vast conspiracy. They know
490. 29:56it's true, but they're hiding it. Of course Romans one says, people suppress the truth,
491. 30:00but you know, to the, to the secular world, that sounds foolish. Well, there's a third
492. 30:04answer I discovered last summer and it's, it's from publicly available data on college enrollment.
493. 30:10And you can look this up.
494. 30:11We have an annual college expo at Anderson Genesis,
495. 30:15so we have a list of like-minded universities,
496. 30:17not a long list, obviously.
497. 30:19But you can look up the enrollment for each of these schools.
498. 30:22You can look up national enrollment.
499. 30:23I think undergraduates of like 15 million and 2021.
500. 30:27Anyway, the percentage of undergraduates who hear
501. 30:30only evolution is identical to the percentage of PhDs
502. 30:35who end up evolutionists.
503. 30:36So basically, students end up, surprise, surprise,
504. 30:40exactly as they're taught.
505. 30:42And so that implies, and if we are able to roll back
506. 30:45these laws on teaching of creation science
507. 30:47in public schools, that will dramatically change
508. 30:50the culture.
509. 30:51So this book, even though it may not seem,
510. 30:53well, what does this have to do with creation science,
511. 30:54creation evolution, it strikes at the heart
512. 30:58of the current environment, the current legal framework,
513. 31:01and the current monopoly that the enemies of creation science
514. 31:04have on the public school system.
515. 31:06So unsurprisingly, if you have more students and children
516. 31:11who are introduced to origins of the universe
517. 31:15and introduced creationism and not exclusively
518. 31:17evolutionary ideology, then it will follow,
519. 31:21you will largely shake up the makeup,
520. 31:23not to start a rap song, but shake up the makeup
521. 31:26of the professoriate and the scientific professional makeup.
522. 31:32If you have more robust presentations
523. 31:35of something beyond evolution.
524. 31:37That's what you're saying.
525. 31:38That's the statistic that you found.
526. 31:40That's what it supports, right?
527. 31:42I'd say it's the statistics and another surprise for me was
528. 31:47the people who most agree with that conclusion,
529. 31:49who basically would say, yes, students end up
530. 31:51how they're taught, they hold evolution
531. 31:53because that's all they're taught, would be my enemies.
532. 31:55You think back to those court decisions,
533. 31:57the specifics of those court decisions were
534. 32:00not to put creation science in and remove evolution out.
535. 32:05Those laws said both creation and evolution would be taught.
536. 32:09My enemies fought tooth and nail to kick creation science out,
537. 32:13and you have to ask yourself, why is that?
538. 32:14What's the big danger of exposing students to creation science?
539. 32:18If any reasonable person, rational person will see the evidence revolution conclude evolution.
540. 32:22Let me jump in right there.
541. 32:23They might be about to hit a break.
542. 32:25Well, with Dr. Jinson, when we come back after this break.
543. 32:28Children, of course, are given to parents by God,
544. 32:37not to the state. Children don't belong to the state and we need to make sure that those
545. 32:41lines are very clearly protected and increasingly secularized culture where the government has
546. 32:48not only tried to make the church completely irrelevant but basically replace parents.
547. 32:55Jenna Ellis in the morning weekdays at seven central on American family radio.
548. 33:11back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
549. 33:16Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton.
550. 33:18The third here with Dr. Nathaniel Jensen, research biologist and speaker with answers
551. 33:22in Genesis, Harvard, trained.
552. 33:24And we're discussing his book, This is a Phenomenal Work They Had Names.
553. 33:30It's available now.
554. 33:31And I want you to finish the point you were making, but I don't want to miss this opportunity.
555. 33:35Where can people pick up they had names, Dr. Jensen?
556. 33:38is available through our web store, answers from Genesis.org.
557. 33:41It's available on Amazon, through the publisher,
558. 33:43master books, and newly pressed.
559. 33:45So pretty much wherever books are sold,
560. 33:47you can find it there as well.
561. 33:48And guys, I cannot recommend highly enough
562. 33:50for you to get it.
563. 33:51You need this one in your libraries
564. 33:53because it is a profound work that ultimately points
565. 33:56directly to the truth in the authority of scripture
566. 33:59and really is a means by which I believe
567. 34:01that people can be drawn to behold the glory of God.
568. 34:05by God's grace, hearts, and eyes will be open, that ultimately can really lead to salvation.
569. 34:12But Dr. Jinson, you were making a point before the disrespectful music grabbed us that I had
570. 34:17to cut in on.
571. 34:18I want you to finish the point that you were making.
572. 34:20Yeah, so what's surprising to me, but makes sense in retrospect, about who actually agrees
573. 34:27with me about that students end up how they're taught it's my enemies.
574. 34:31So back to the court decisions of the 1980s, those laws that my enemies tried to overturn
575. 34:37were equal time laws, not kick evolution out.
576. 34:40It's teach creation science alongside evolution.
577. 34:45And so I think the atheist community likes to pride themselves on what evolution is just
578. 34:49the rational choice.
579. 34:50Atheism is the rational choice.
580. 34:51And the thinking person, if they just reason through the evidence, will conclude atheism
581. 34:54or evolution.
582. 34:55And nobody believes that.
583. 34:57Because if people truly believe that, it wouldn't matter to them really what students
584. 35:02are taught, so long as they see some evolution surely they would all rationally conclude it.
585. 35:07No, they fight tooth and nail to keep any sort of exposure to creation science out of the
586. 35:11schools.
587. 35:12Why?
588. 35:13I think the only answer is because they must believe with all their heart that students
589. 35:16will end up believing whatever they're taught.
590. 35:19That's how the world works.
591. 35:20And I mean, I'm using the creation of the resolution example as the topic, but I think
592. 35:24this is likely true for every single point that is being pushed in the public schools.
593. 35:28The reason our enemies have such a stranglehold on is because they know it works.
594. 35:34They know if you want to change a culture, if you want to change a society, you must control
595. 35:38the education and whatever they feed students is how they're going to end up and it's worked
596. 35:43with wild success.
597. 35:44So once that hit me, I'm like, okay, this is the big question in the creation of Lucian
598. 35:49It's probably the big question for any social issue in our culture and our society, but getting
599. 35:54in control of that and being able to push back against those things is a hugely important
600. 35:59objective, I think, for the creation of the evolutionary community.
601. 36:01Well said. Now, turning to the book again, you made the observation that you always knew,
602. 36:09with your background, your father being American, your mom being from Germany,
603. 36:14He always knew something was off about the history of North America.
604. 36:20How did that impact your discovery, as I mentioned, is because a product of decades,
605. 36:26a decade worth of research and particular genetic predictions.
606. 36:32Why did you say you always knew something was off about the history of North America?
607. 36:36My mother's German, all my relatives are over there.
608. 36:38And so we'd go annually to visit them.
609. 36:41And when my dad came over, he was a self-employed dentist.
610. 36:44So he couldn't come over as much, or for as much of the time.
611. 36:48But when he did, we do sightseeing, and it seems like everywhere you turn in Europe,
612. 36:51I mean, I've been to Italy as well, just on a separate work trip.
613. 36:54But everywhere you turn in Europe, there's some sort of old cathedral, old castle.
614. 36:58There's ruins that constantly confront you and reminds you, there's a long history in
615. 37:03Europe.
616. 37:04And of course, we learn it in school, and oftentimes people think it's boring, boring history, but
617. 37:07it's a sequence of events with kings and queens and places and dates and battles and all
618. 37:13all that. And then, and of course we'd return to the United States. I grew up in Wisconsin,
619. 37:1820 years of my life. And well, where are the ruins? Where are the cathedrals? Where is the
620. 37:23reminders that there was a long history here? And of course, in school, we'd learn, if we
621. 37:28learned about the Americas, it was, here's Columbus, here's the pilgrims, and there was
622. 37:31just silence about what came prior. And I don't think that's because anyone had anything against
623. 37:36it as much as, again, where are people ultimately drawing the information from? Even Christian
624. 37:42schools are somewhat reliant on the mainstream community and there have been no good answers
625. 37:47as to what went down.
626. 37:48Sequence of events, the evolutionary community has been very reticent, hesitant to connect
627. 37:53archaeological sites to cultures we recognize at contact like Iroquois or Sue or Menominee
628. 37:59or Potawatomi or any of these sorts of tribes.
629. 38:02There was this big void.
630. 38:04My mother and I would discuss it.
631. 38:05I remember going to a tour of one castle and the tour guide was talking about in Germany.
632. 38:10This wall fell down three, four hundred years ago and then you kind of do the mental math
633. 38:13and say, that's pre-1776.
634. 38:17And again, a reminder of there's a history here and it's just taken for granted and you
635. 38:22come back to the States and say, well, where can I go to find this history?
636. 38:26We did sightseeing here, of course, when we go to Williamsburg or Plymouth Plantation.
637. 38:31It's all post-European arrival and so I just had nothing growing up.
638. 38:36And so part of the book is part-travelogue to take the reader to places.
639. 38:39Yes, there are ruins here.
640. 38:41They tell dramatic stories.
641. 38:42You can visit them.
642. 38:43They're not necessarily flashing neon light type places
643. 38:46where you hear about them all the time.
644. 38:48But there is a narrative here.
645. 38:50There's a sequence of events.
646. 38:52Research has been able to uncover or recover
647. 38:54a lot of these events.
648. 38:55And you can see it then with your own eyes, what went down.
649. 38:59And that was personally satisfying for me,
650. 39:01given how it had grown up.
651. 39:04Now you talk about, I guess I'll make this kind
652. 39:06of a compound question because in the book
653. 39:08they had names, you clearly explain
654. 39:10where some of the indigenous people originated
655. 39:13and you talk about your methodology
656. 39:14in tracing why chromosomes.
657. 39:18Would you explain a bit about how you articulate
658. 39:23in the book where some of the indigenous people originated
659. 39:26and also the methodology in tracing why chromosomes
660. 39:28in your research?
661. 39:30Yeah, so genetic testing, I see it's fairly common these days.
662. 39:34If you go to Ancestry DNA or 23andMe or FamilyTreeDNA,
663. 39:38The typical test is a test of the DNA from both parents,
664. 39:42which is great, especially for adoptees,
665. 39:44if you don't know one side of the family.
666. 39:46The dirty little secret though of these tests is,
667. 39:49they're only good for a few generations.
668. 39:51Pretty much telling you the ethnicity of your grandparents,
669. 39:53which for most folks they already know,
670. 39:55and so you're $100 poor,
671. 39:56but know very little more from your family tree.
672. 40:00It's the basic problem with these tests is,
673. 40:03yes, you learn both sides of the family tree,
674. 40:05but each side dilutes the genetic signal of the other.
675. 40:09So I'm half genetically each of my parents,
676. 40:1250% each of my parents.
677. 40:13My parents were 50% each of their parents.
678. 40:15So I'm genetically 25% each of my four grandparents.
679. 40:20And 12 and a half percent, great grandparents.
680. 40:23And so that genetic signal gets lost very quickly
681. 40:26and you need something else to go back deeply.
682. 40:29Or another way to say is you need some type of DNA
683. 40:31that does not get diluted by the other parent.
684. 40:34The Y chromosome to make a long story short is a type of DNA inherited only through males.
685. 40:39I got my Y chromosome from my dad, my three boys, each got a Y chromosome from me.
686. 40:45This also marks ancestry but allows us to go very deep in time.
687. 40:50Back to the beginning, in fact, a couple years ago we announced the discovery of finding the
688. 40:53genetic echo of Genesis 10.
689. 40:55Genesis 10, of course, is a genealogy of men and the male inherited Y chromosome.
690. 41:01allows us to reconstruct a family tree in which we can see exactly that genealogy.
691. 41:04And so that was where I started when I got into Native American history.
692. 41:09I wasn't looking for it per se. I was trying to work on the history of the globe, history of humanity,
693. 41:13and Native Americans yielded a lot of surprises and were some of the key tools to understanding how
694. 41:19to orient the tree, where the beginning was, how to how to time stamp in the tree. But that was the
695. 41:23key plank. Finding out can we find known history like after Columbus? Can we find known history in
696. 41:30in Native American DNA we did and then we were able to look backwards and time and say,
697. 41:34oh wow, there were, for example, multiple settings of the Americas from Asia.
698. 41:39And oh look, this Y chromosome history actually matches what the Native Americans themselves
699. 41:44have said about their history, some of their histories that in fact the evolutionary community
700. 41:47had rejected. And so that whole process began to snowball where once I got the genetics worked out,
701. 41:54the other planks and pieces fell into place. Indigenous histories, clues from language, clues from
702. 41:59archaeology and then what over a couple years emerged was this play-by-play that I try to describe
703. 42:05in the book as to what went down before Europeans ever set foot in these shores.
704. 42:11So what is the biblical significance of every research and what can Christians learn from it?
705. 42:18I'd say there's significance for different groups of people, for Native Americans and for really any
706. 42:23people group on the planet. We have the ability now with genetics to trace a family line,
707. 42:30a people groups line back to specific sons of Noah. And so just to give an example of
708. 42:35this, not just for North America, but last fall, I was in Brazil and Bolivia. I got to
709. 42:39speak to the president in Brazil of the indigenous Christianized people's organization. We have
710. 42:45an annual conference. I'll be in the Amazon in just a few days traveling down to Brazil
711. 42:50to speak at about two to 3,000 indigenous people. And when I mentioned to him, we can trace your
712. 42:55people's line back to specific sons of Noah. We can fill in now some of the backstory to
713. 43:00what happened before Europeans, his face lit up, he got very excited.
714. 43:03Let's do this. Can you teach us how to do it because we want to know this history?
715. 43:07That's part of the biblical significance.
716. 43:09Then for a wider audience,
717. 43:11what this book represents for
718. 43:14natives and non-natives alike is the success and
719. 43:18basically a new era for the creation of Evolution Debate,
720. 43:21because now creation scientists are taking the lead.
721. 43:24For so long, we've played defense or just to describe the cycle of how things would work.
722. 43:30Because of the court decisions in the 1980s, the billions of dollars of government money
723. 43:35for research go to the evolutionists.
724. 43:37The evolutionists take that money, they do research, they publish a result, newspapers
725. 43:41will pick up that result right to headline, then we react to the headline.
726. 43:45And that's effective, it's good.
727. 43:47I mean, again, if you have a smaller budget, you're a nonprofit, that's a good start.
728. 43:52We're now at the place that despite being excluded from any sort of government money,
729. 43:56billions of dollars in relying on donations by the grace of God, his providence, we've been
730. 44:00able to make some discoveries again that make news.
731. 44:03And we're seeing a complete role reversal where now we're writing the headlines.
732. 44:07The evolutionists will have to react.
733. 44:09And here's maybe the biggest evidence of us finally winning.
734. 44:14The evolutionists are reacting in ways they've accused us of.
735. 44:18So what's the stereotype of the creation of the evolution debate?
736. 44:21On one side there's science, the other side there is religion, which of course religion is
737. 44:24viewed as a pejorative. This is a insult. You know, you religious people, you dumb
738. 44:30rubes, don't know what you're talking about. Well, they're acting religious basically.
739. 44:34So one critic has said, I'm wrong, he says, because I disagree with the textbooks. I'm
740. 44:39like, oh, so you have a holy book and a high priest who interprets it and you're not allowed
741. 44:44to have anyone else not interpret it. I'm like, I can't believe you're doing that. I
742. 44:48mean, thank you for doing that because now it shows that we're in the lead and you're
743. 44:52the quote unquote religious ones and it is indeed a matter of faith for you and you can't
744. 44:56violate it. There's certain doctrines and dogmas and there's heresy. All that language
745. 45:00now applies. And so it's exciting for me to, I think for anyone, Christian to be at this
746. 45:07stage because it pretends an exciting, I think very optimistic future. And at some point I think
747. 45:13I just don't see how the dam doesn't break. How can the evolutionists hold that back if
748. 45:19The best they can do is basically embody this stereotype
749. 45:22that the accused does so.
750. 45:23People are gonna pick up on that, eventually say,
751. 45:25this is ridiculous, this is a farce, I think.
752. 45:28And hopefully then warm up to it.
753. 45:30And I've seen that.
754. 45:30I've had people contact me again saying,
755. 45:33I don't like that Bible stuff,
756. 45:34but I think you're onto something.
757. 45:35So this, I would say is a new way to win
758. 45:40in this long-standing decades-long,
759. 45:42century-long war of creation evolution.
760. 45:45Now the book, in my estimation,
761. 45:48It rewrites what we know about pre-European North America.
762. 45:51How does the book do that?
763. 45:54I'd say in one sense, there's a, for me personally,
764. 45:58pre-calm North America was just this big blank.
765. 46:00I mean, I guess I could visualize a map,
766. 46:02but there was nothing I could put on it.
767. 46:03I couldn't draw any kingdom or national boundaries
768. 46:06or give a personal example.
769. 46:08I remember being, and this is just an example
770. 46:10of how long I was ignorant about all this.
771. 46:12When I lived in Dallas, Texas, so that was 2009 and 2015,
772. 46:17parents came, would come and visit from Wisconsin.
773. 46:18we'd see sites, Dallas, Fort Worth area has the Fort Worth Stockyards.
774. 46:23And in the gift shop, they had up on the wall.
775. 46:25I never took a picture, but it made a lasting mental image.
776. 46:29A picture of pre-European North America with lots of basically little kingdoms.
777. 46:33It was at the time of contact, I think.
778. 46:35But still, that was a, how does that help me understand pre-European North America?
779. 46:40Well, it was sort of a mental match of like, there's all these little kingdoms.
780. 46:45I've seen something like this before.
781. 46:47And what I saw before was, let's say,
782. 46:50a Middle Ages era map of Europe,
783. 46:53where there's a lot of little kingdoms,
784. 46:54and like that type of map in Europe has a history.
785. 46:59I know there's a sequence of kings,
786. 47:00there's a sequence of battles, there's dates and key events,
787. 47:02there's Renaissance, there's Reformation,
788. 47:04there's a lot that goes along with it.
789. 47:06Surely there's something here in North America as well,
790. 47:08I didn't have anything to fill in the blank,
791. 47:10but even that, and we have a map that goes along with the book
792. 47:12that depicts all that.
793. 47:14And even when I show it on social media, people react to it,
794. 47:17because I think there's been this, I just don't know.
795. 47:20I have no way to visualize what happened.
796. 47:21I don't know who was here.
797. 47:23And there's a start.
798. 47:25And it rewrites the few pieces of the puzzle
799. 47:29that evolutionists have tried to advance.
800. 47:30They would say there's one migration 15,000 years ago,
801. 47:32I'd say.
802. 47:33So in the book, I say there's at least three migrations.
803. 47:35There's been research that's come out even since May,
804. 47:37where I can say, there's been at least five migrations
805. 47:40from the old world into the new,
806. 47:41in the last 4,000 years or so.
807. 47:43It links new world civilizations with old world ones,
808. 47:46which is fascinating,
809. 47:47because then there's a cause effect thing.
810. 47:49There's new ways to understand
811. 47:51why do certain kingdoms rise and fall?
812. 47:52Because if you have new people coming in,
813. 47:54there's a natural explanation for,
814. 47:56oh, that's why these people disappeared,
815. 47:57because there was a battle and so on.
816. 47:59There's names we can put on specific heroes
817. 48:02who were the victors and losers,
818. 48:04and all that.
819. 48:04We can fill the gap, bridge the gap between,
820. 48:07okay, here's the Lakota contact on the Great Plains.
821. 48:10Where do they come from?
822. 48:11What were they doing?
823. 48:11Okay, well, I can tell you they were in the 800s,
824. 48:13AD on the East Coast near Washington, D.C.,
825. 48:16migrated over the next several centuries
826. 48:17through Indiana, Ohio, up to Wisconsin,
827. 48:19down to the mouth of the Ohio.
828. 48:21By 1300 they dispersed.
829. 48:22All that now we can fill in
830. 48:24that no one's been able to do before.
831. 48:26I mean, I should say the Native Americans
832. 48:28have had these histories, but they've been dismissed.
833. 48:30This now returns value and dignity to them
834. 48:32and is a great advance.
835. 48:34They had names.
836. 48:36You need the book.
837. 48:37Thank you, Dr. Jinson.
838. 48:39Thank you.
839. 48:41The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
840. 48:46Family Association or American Family Radio.