August 12, 2025 · 50:48

Guest Host, Jenna Ellis, is joined by Pastor Jack Hibbs and Attorney Mike Donnelly

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Guest Host, Jenna Ellis, is joined by Pastor Jack Hibbs and Attorney Mike Donnelly | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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877-616-2396

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Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
0:18And the philosophies of this world.
0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
0:24Even in this dark moment.
0:26Let's not miss our moment.
0:29and now the Hamilton Corner.
0:31Good evening and this is not the voice of Abraham Hamilton the third.
0:37It's a little bit too high I think for his deep bravado there that I always love tuning into.
0:44But my name is Jenna Ellis and I'm the host of Jenna Ellis in the morning right here on American Family Radio Network
0:50and it is my distinct honor and privilege to fill in for my dear friend Abe this evening.
0:56And it's going to be a great hour, and I'm so grateful for all of you who have tuned into this program,
1:03and who will be listening later via the podcast, because there are always important things to discuss.
1:10And one of the first things that Abe always starts with, and regular listeners know,
1:15is that he talks about how so many people are transitioning from their part-time jobs to their full-time jobs,
1:22which is to minister to your family.
1:25And that's kind of where I want to start tonight because a lot of what we're going to be talking about on the program this evening deals with that key institution that God has ordained, which is the family government.
1:39And we need to understand that in the wider perspective of God's sovereignty and how he
1:47ordained the universe to which we are presented, and how he describes these institutions that
1:54he has ordained in the Bible.
1:56And so the key idea here is that God is a God of order.
2:00And we see this in 1 Corinthians 1433 and elsewhere in Scripture, of course, initially
2:08in Genesis 1, 27, and 28 when he creates man and he says, and for this reason a man shall
2:16leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, the two shall become one flesh.
2:20That is the first marriage and it's the first family unit.
2:25And we also see this in Colossians 1, 16 through 17.
2:28I'm not going to read all of these passages but for your edification and to go back and
2:33study.
2:34God is a God of order and he's also a God of an authority structure.
2:39And as we look at these three institutions,
2:42the family government, of course, being the first,
2:45then the church government and then the civil government,
2:48we see that God who has all authority
2:52has delegated to these institutions and to the humans
2:57that run these institutions a specific delegated authority.
3:02authority. And so any authority that is established or controls in any of these three institutions
3:10must necessarily be under God's authority in order to live out that institution's purpose
3:18for which it was created. And that is true about the family as much as it's true about
3:23the church and also the civil government. And to understand these institutions is to understand
3:30that God is a God of order and he's a God of authority.
3:34He's ordained these three institutions
3:37to structure human society for his glory
3:41and to give the best opportunity to us
3:45to come to know him as individuals,
3:48to love him and to ultimately accept him
3:51as our Lord and Savior.
3:52That's the key purpose of man as the catechism goes
3:56to worship the Lord.
3:58And we do that primarily in the context of family.
4:03That's where we live the most of our daily lives.
4:06It's not actually at our job or vocation
4:09as part of that certainly.
4:11And that's an incredible part of,
4:14particularly the husband providing for the family.
4:17It's a key part of ministry that can be both the husband
4:21and wife, especially for individuals
4:25who are single like me.
4:26For example, my life is dedicated to ministry
4:29for the duration of the time that I'm single.
4:32But I'm still within the context of a family
4:34because I still have my two brothers.
4:38I still have my parents who speak into my life.
4:40And of course, the family that is the church as well.
4:43We should never be without family.
4:46The family is the first institution
4:48that got ordained.
4:49It was established in creation in Genesis 2, 18 through 24.
4:54and marriage was instituted even before the fall
4:59in creation.
5:00Marriage is not something that God designed after the fact,
5:04like civil society to promote good and restrain evil
5:09as we'll get to.
5:11Marriage isn't a result of the fall,
5:12it's something that actually reflects the beauty
5:16of our relationship with our Lord and Savior.
5:19And the purpose of course, as we see in Genesis 2,
5:23is companionship, fruitfulness, and stewardship of creation,
5:29and also of children.
5:32And we need to remember that going into a couple
5:35of the items and the news items that we're
5:37going to talk about later, particularly the Supreme
5:41Court case that's being appealed to the Supreme Court right now
5:45that was announced today that seeks to overturn the Obergefell
5:49versus Hodges decision, the same-sex marriage decision.
5:53How do we as Christians understand that and fight for the truth of the gospel and God's
5:59order and authority in society without first understanding the family that was designed
6:07and created to promote human flourishing and stewardship of not only creation but also
6:16of children?
6:18How do we do that without first understanding all of that and understanding Genesis?
6:23There are pastors that I've heard teach this and I fully agree with it that if we don't
6:30first understand Genesis as the book of the Bible and take it literally and understand
6:37what God is telling us in the very beginning, in the beginning God, if we don't first take
6:42that literally, then we fail to understand the rest.
6:48We can't understand the necessity of the cross and of the necessity of the church and the
6:53church's authority.
6:55We can't understand who we are as created in the image of God without first understanding
7:02the book of Genesis.
7:04And so the primary roles are of course the husband and the wife, first and foremost that
7:10primary relationship together and how God ordained that relationship for companionship, for
7:17Iron sharpening iron and then for those two
7:23Individuals that are now one flesh and one family unit to then be parents to train children in the fear and admonition of the Lord
7:31That's Deuteronomy six and Ephesians six as well to provide physical care
7:36Yes, but also moral and spiritual formation and instruction
7:42Parents are not a
7:45a substitute for the state. They are the primary caregivers children do not belong to the state
7:52They are entrusted to the parents as the primary
7:57method of discipleship
7:59This is and I've said this on my program so many times that my parents took that very seriously in the greatest gift
8:06That they provided to me growing up as I was learning about truth and about the world about God about everything
8:14as children do, they taught me the truth and they provided discipleship through homeschooling,
8:22through the church education, but in being a family unit.
8:27And that's what we need to strive for to replicate the family in the design that God
8:34provides and that family is ultimately the foundation of society.
8:38It's not the Republican Party.
8:40It's not the U.S. Constitution.
8:42It's not the social morays or the social compact theory is the foundation of a good society.
8:49If anyone asks you that question, what's the foundation of society?
8:54It's the family.
8:55Healthy families produce stable communities and break down of the family invites social
9:03decay and societal decay.
9:05And we can see that clearly also in Psalm 127, Proverbs 22, and elsewhere as well.
9:13And we see that just in the evidence that we have of the man and the woman, the mother
9:20and the father who are necessary for children, that the family unit is the best form of a
9:32society and the form of an environment for children to thrive and to come into a knowledge
9:40of the truth.
9:41And so we have to start with the family.
9:43I've spent a lot of time on the family and this is why I think Abe Hamilton when he is
9:49hosting this program spends so much time in this first segment teaching about the truth
9:54of the word of God and pasturing and talking about how you're transitioning from your part-time
10:00roles in your job and your volunteer in your ministry to your primary ministry
10:04and role which is the family. And then we do have the other two institutions that
10:10God ordained which are co-equal in a sense of being under God's ultimate
10:17authority. And they're different jurisdictions of course and that's a
10:22separation of those institutions or of powers. It's kind of a reflection of
10:27of what our founders understood when they created our system of government and had three separate
10:33branches of government.
10:35We have three different institutions that the Lord's ordained.
10:37So the church is where God's people gather.
10:40It's established by Christ in the New Testament for after Christ's earthly ministry.
10:47In Matthew 1618, he says, I will build Christ to sing.
10:50I will build my church.
10:52The church is a body in 1 Corinthians 12 and it's also a bride in Ephesians 5.
10:59And so again, that bride is a reflection or marriage is a reflection of Christ and the
11:05church that he gave himself up for his bride.
11:08The primary role of the church is to preach the gospel and to make disciples.
11:13We see that in the Great Commission in Matthew 28 to teach sound doctrine in 2 Timothy 4
11:21Because we can have a passion for God, but we have to have a knowledge of God as well.
11:26We have to know who He is.
11:29Think about your relationships in your family.
11:31How well can you predict what your parents will do or what your spouse would respond
11:36to in a given situation when you send them the Instagram rills that you know that they'll
11:40think are funny.
11:41It's because you know them very well.
11:43You have a knowledge of the people that you have relationship with.
11:47And sound doctrine helps us to have a better relationship with our Lord and Savior because
11:54we know Him more intimately through a knowledge of Him.
11:59And it's also to administer ordinances.
12:031 Corinthians 11, Acts 2.
12:06It's also spiritual authority to equip the saints from ministry in Ephesians 4 and 5.
12:12Take advantage of every opportunity for the days are evil as Ephesians 5 says.
12:16And also discipline for purity sake in Matthew 18 where we see the biblical resolution for
12:24conflict that inevitably happens as a result of the fall certainly.
12:29And then we also come to civil government.
12:32But in the church, obviously everyone should be members of a family.
12:36We are members of a family and of a traditional family unit.
12:39We should also be members of a church that those primary roles are fulfilled.
12:44If you're going to a church that doesn't teach sound doctrine or doesn't provide discipline,
12:51you're in the wrong church.
12:53So then the third institution that God ordained is the civil government.
12:57That's God's minister ultimately for justice.
13:01Again ordained by God in Romans 13, government is God's servant to punish evil and commend
13:07good.
13:08And first Peter 2, we are to submit to our authorities for the Lord's sake, obviously
13:15not over and above what his commands are.
13:18If there is an evil government, then we submit to Christ first, but we submit to our leaders,
13:24we pray for our leaders because we recognize that they are ordained by God's authority
13:29over us.
13:30And again, God is a God of order and authority.
13:33limits of that authority because they must operate under God's moral law. Acts 529,
13:39obey God rather than men when in conflict. And so for the Christian, in relation to these
13:45institutions, in the family, model Christ-centered love and holiness, in the church, serve and
13:53edify one another, remain faithful to biblical truth, and practice all of the one and others
14:00that are throughout scripture.
14:01And in civil society, live peaceably and do good.
14:06Titus 3, Jeremiah 29, engage assault and light.
14:11Matthew 5, pray for our leaders, first Timothy 2,
14:16and all three institutions will serve to bring stability,
14:19justice, and spread of the gospel.
14:22Christians are called to be faithful in each sphere,
14:24pointing to the reign of Christ, the king above all kings.
14:28So when we talk about the family, the church, and the civil government, what's going on
14:33is we'll be talking about the next few segments, recognize the purpose of civil society is
14:39for justice, ultimately, for the family.
14:41I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abe Hamilton, and we will be right back with more here on
14:47the Hamilton Corner.
14:49And you can listen to my show regularly, Jenna Ellis, in the morning from 8 to 9 Eastern,
14:53right here on American Family Radio Network.
15:01A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
15:04Proverbs 15 verse 1.
15:07A soft word turns away wrath,
15:10but a harsh word stirs up anger.
15:13Proverbs 16 verse 24.
15:15Gracious words are like a honeycomb.
15:18Sweetness to the soul and health to the body.
15:22Words are powerful.
15:24Our words can do things far beyond what we seem to realize.
15:28Words can make someone's day and words can ruin someone's day.
15:33Words can give people hope and words can help people feel hopeless.
15:38As the scripture says in Proverbs chapter 18 verse 21,
15:42Death and life are in the power of the tongue.
15:45Those who love it will eat its fruits.
15:48We are wise to pray the prayer found in Psalm 141 verse 3.
15:53Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth.
15:55Keep watch over the door of my lips.
16:06Shining light into the darkness,
16:08this is the Hamilton Quarter, an American family radio.
16:12Welcome back, welcome back.
16:13This is Jenna Ellis filling in for the great Abraham Hamilton III,
16:18and we've been talking about the three institutions that God ordained,
16:22the church government, the civil government, and the family government.
16:25And of course, the civil government's obligation is to protect our pre-political rights that
16:31come from our God of order and authority. And when our civil government runs afoul of that
16:38command and that mandate, they are going against the authority of God himself. And right now,
16:45in California, there is a bill that does that very thing. And so this is coming from the Christian
16:51post, Pastor Jack Hibbs warns Christians may need to quote
16:56pack up and get out of California. If this bill passes,
16:59I'm going to ask you to leave the state. So this is assembly bill
17:03495 and Pastor Jack Hibbs of Calvert Chapel Chino Hills joins me
17:08now to discuss Pastor Jack. I'm so grateful that you are
17:12shining the light of truth on this assembly bill. Tell us why
17:17this is so dangerous.
17:18Yeah, Jenna, first of all, thank you for having me.
17:22And if somebody could imagine this, that if whatever has always come down in California,
17:29bad legislation, bad ideas, bad bills, this is the crowning moment of the Democrat rule
17:36in California.
17:37This is a bill that Jenna, it's going to be hard for your listeners to believe this, but
17:42It is a bill that grants access to an individual who prints from the government website and
17:50affidavit that is in alignment with this bill.
17:54You can print it out.
17:56You can sign your name and the name of a child in the public school system that you want to
18:04receive custody of.
18:06You just fill it out, you go down to the school, you request this child's person.
18:13The school number one is not obligated to contact the parent.
18:17Number two, the school does not ask for ID.
18:22This individual does not have to produce a background check, a driver's license, an address,
18:29nothing.
18:30This individual then can take custody of the child and once that happens, the school is
18:36under no commitment whatsoever to reveal to the parents who this individual was even
18:44their name.
18:46And so this is why I made the statement to the congregants that if this passes, that as
18:53much as I would love people to be at our church, that they would have to take their
18:59child out of the state of California if they were going to not put them in either private
19:06school or homeschooling now jenna i gotta tell you i have been updated with
19:09this information
19:11and i don't think
19:12can say the attorney's name but you know him is a friend of yours
19:16he said jack it's worse
19:18it's worse than what you think
19:20it is worse than what you think so
19:22you can tell jenna by the rhetoric online by those that are pushing back on
19:27my comments and now the comments of many others
19:30uh... they're saying oh it's it they're being exact you know they're
19:33exaggerating that that's not as bad as they think
19:36but the legal minds that have looked at it and continue to look at it are saying
19:40not actually worse than that because it's so
19:43vague and dangerous that
19:45we can no longer have our children be safe in the color for new public school
19:51this is utterly insane i mean this is basically what you're describing
19:54pastor jack is legalized kidnapping
19:57i mean it's it's just going in and saying i'm handing over this affidavit
20:02I'm taking a child as a non-relative even and the school just has to turn over a child
20:10to anyone and then not inform the parents.
20:13I mean, what is even the potential pretext to why California would say, you know, hey,
20:20we're going to sell this as a good thing.
20:22I mean, obviously they lie when they say like, you know, these kinds of things are good,
20:25but what's their pretext here?
20:28Yeah.
20:28Great question.
20:29I'm glad you asked it.
20:30And here it is.
20:31This is basically an anti-Trump immigration action that has been spearheaded by the California
20:39Legislature and adored by Gavin Newsom.
20:42And here it is.
20:44It is an act by which any person can take custody of the child rather than the federal government
20:52because they say it is a compassionate bill.
20:57It is a bill that protects the child from being taken by federal government authorities
21:05if the parents are illegal aliens.
21:10That's what they're saying.
21:11You see, it's a good bill, Jenna, because it's our way of making it so easy that anybody can
21:17get Susie out of class and take custody of Susie rescuing her from the bad and evil immigration
21:25officers of Donald Trump's ICE and DHS because their parents could be illegal aliens.
21:32Here's the thing, the devil, in this case, Jenna, the devil is not in the details.
21:39It is so vague that anybody with that affidavit can utilize this and for nefarious reasons.
21:48And so, I mean, this is a pet of, I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, Jenna, but this is a pet
21:53of files dream come true. If some guy has been eyeing your daughter or your son from down
22:00the street of your house and they happen to know your business hours or your work hours,
22:06that guy can go to your kid's school. And without being questioned, take your kid out
22:12and the school, you're going to have to find your child because the school is under no obligation
22:16to notify because they believe that they're working in part with this legislation as a
22:23the compassionate act
22:25to protect
22:26this child and or illegal parents from the main
22:30orange man
22:33well that is
22:36so
22:37utterly disgusting
22:38but also so typical i think that's their jacket that yet that the pre-text is
22:43always orange man bad you know it's always just a little over
22:47the state anti-Trump and we're sold you know according to the state of
22:50california and the leadership there
22:52uh... but this is so
22:54fundamentally against the right of parents to safeguard their children and to determine
23:02who, when and where can have temporary custody of them for purposes, in this case of education,
23:11and to think that a non-relative in any case, it's not even just if they have proof that the
23:17the parents are illegal or that the parents have been taken by ice or even
23:21some even modicum of rationality that would be a correlation to this nonsense
23:29I mean to just say that anybody can come for any child for any
23:34non-disclosed reason with this affidavit I mean that's beyond insane and yet it
23:41has a likelihood potentially of actually passing in California
23:45Well, here's what's going to happen.
23:48And please, all of you in 49 other states, please listen up.
23:52This is what happens when the California government is unchecked because it is a Democrat super
23:58majority.
23:59The Democrats own everything in California so they don't any longer have to put anything
24:04to the public for vote.
24:06They just rubber stamp things through.
24:08So Jenna, here's where we're at.
24:10It has been making it through committee,
24:13and it is going to make its final showing on Friday this week,
24:18and it's going to be approved.
24:21And then on Monday or Tuesday, it will then go to Gavin Newsom's
24:25desk to become law.
24:28The reason why you and I are talking right now,
24:30Jim, is because Tuesday, I'm asking everybody in the state
24:35of California, I mean everybody, to show up at the state
24:39capital, we've got to permit to do this, and we are going to rally at the state capital,
24:46and we are going to be doing what we've done before in the past, Jenna.
24:50Not all attempts have failed us.
24:54When we have shown up in force in Sacramento, Newsom has backed down in the past, he has
25:02actually tabled his voting power to put it into law.
25:06actually kicked it down the road and here's the fun part about this
25:10get the new some is actually a politician which means
25:14he he actually
25:16goes with who makes the biggest noise
25:19and so if you look at his window and see five thousand people
25:23which has happened before and he sees that we are against
25:27he's got presidential aspirations
25:30and so i'm asking all of america to put us on tuesday and i'm asking all of
25:34california to show up
25:36on Tuesday at nine a.m. at the state capital.
25:39I'll be there among others and we are going to address the governor
25:42and we are going to make our voice be heard because like I said
25:46for many of us this is the last stand.
25:49If it passes then a parent can no longer assume that they'll be able
25:53to pick their child up at the end of the school day
25:56that their child will even be there.
25:58Wow and so this is next Tuesday so that would be the 19th.
26:02Is that right of August?
26:04That is correct.
26:05So the 19th of August, 9 AM Pacific, Sacramento, the state capital, if you were in California,
26:11I would encourage you to be there.
26:14As Pastor Jack said, that he has a permit.
26:17And I know from speaking to state legislators around the country, if they get even 10 phone
26:22calls on an issue, they are like, oh, somebody's paying attention.
26:26If they get 100, they're really paying attention.
26:30If you get 5,000 people outside, say that our parents that are saying this is not okay and we will
26:36leave, that makes national news. That makes Gavin Newsom, who's probably eyeing 2028 and wanting to
26:43look a little bit moderate. That makes him very uncomfortable because I think you're right, Pastor
26:49Jack, that ultimately he's a politician, which means that you can't count on anything that he's
26:55going to do and we as Christians can use that to our advantage to hopefully
27:01encourage him to do the right thing in this case and so this is assembly bill
27:08495 and is this to your knowledge is this just for picking up kids from school or
27:15could this be from like daycare after school activities are there any
27:19limitations that's a great great question I'm gonna I'm gonna default
27:26and answer you this way, our legal counsel has told us that this written so vaguely is a
27:34attorney and a liberal judge's dream come true because it can be applied in so many different ways.
27:40So I guess to answer your question is it appears that it could be used for any
27:46We at a lesson or child situation where the ploy or the supposed intent is that we're protecting
27:57this child by taking this child from the authorities because there's an illegal parent involved
28:06in the mix.
28:07And yet it doesn't exactly say that.
28:10They do say that's why they wrote the bill.
28:18think we're that uh...
28:20go ahead we watch you for just a couple seconds their pastor jack so
28:24you were saying you know this is this is why you know they're writing the bill
28:27and in my view as well in reading it of this this may even include
28:32um... child care staff at a church
28:34for example you know you have somebody coming in here's an affidavit to the
28:38child care staff of the church
28:41what happens in that instance i mean i know what your church is going to say
28:45but
28:46yeah but you are exactly right here's the thing
28:50where does it apply to whom
28:52art is there anyone exempt from this
28:54if there's this blanket
28:57affidavit
28:58uh... gosh i'm sorry i i should have sent it to you get it before the program
29:02because i actually have one
29:03on it is absolutely ridiculous it it it seems to be more difficult to get a
29:08dog license
29:09that it is to get this affidavit of affidavit to get some child
29:13that might live down the street from you are like you said
29:16a non-relative
29:18can take your child
29:20out of school
29:21without you knowing
29:23if newton passes this bill
29:25that it's this is just wild and i'm so grateful pastor jack hibs amis the
29:30pastor of calvert apple china hills that you are sounding the alarm on this and
29:35that you are informed on this because this is so
29:39incredibly concerning and you're absolutely right that
29:42the left and that those in power in the state of california
29:47uh... they care more about who is you know licensed to have dogs
29:51then they do about children and there's a reason for that of course which is that
29:54they believe that the state
29:57is the substitute for the parents and the state can determine
30:00welfare of the child and when they have any pretext they want
30:04they can ultimately undermine
30:06parental rights and that's what's going on here they are not abiding by the
30:10established authority
30:12that god gives solely to parents
30:14and christians need to stand up and fight against that
30:19absolutely well said
30:22and and so this is called the family preparedness plan act of twenty twenty
30:26five which is you know they're cute little way of saying
30:29uh... this is a good thing you know because he doesn't want family prepared
30:32this plan right i mean these these bills you can never trust uh... what they're
30:35saying
30:37and uh... this i'm sure as well uh... pastor jack will
30:41face legal challenges if Gavin Newsom ultimately signs it.
30:45And of course, you're encouraging people to go to the state
30:47Capitol Sacramento at 9 AM Pacific time next Tuesday
30:53on August 19th.
30:55And to basically have your voices heard,
30:57tell Gavin Newsom don't sign this.
30:59But in the event he doesn't listen,
31:01goes ahead and signs it, then I'm
31:02sure there will be litigation on this, right?
31:06Yeah, Jenna, I'll just say this at this time.
31:09You are correct.
31:10we are uh... we're already certainly in our wagons we're talking to the right
31:13people
31:15uh... we are preparing ourselves for new some two-sign it
31:18uh... if he doesn't hooray if he does on
31:22he's gonna need to hang on because i think it's going to be
31:25a lot of uh... mama and pop up bears
31:28very upset then they're gonna remind them
31:30uh... about this uh... immediately and certainly when he attempts to rent for
31:35president
31:36in twenty twenty eight
31:37Yeah, and as you should, absolutely.
31:40Pastor Jack Hibbs, I'm so grateful that you joined us tonight.
31:44And this is where we as Christians need to be as savvy
31:48and strategic as those on the left.
31:51And I'm thinking of outfits like the ACLU
31:54and some of these that immediately when President Trump
31:57signed his 200 executive orders, they
32:00were prepared with lawsuits.
32:01They came right away and said, we're
32:03challenging this for all kinds of other frivolous reasons.
32:07but they challenged it immediately.
32:09And so it's a great thing that we have people
32:11like Pastor Jack and others and lawyers
32:17who are willing to stand up and say,
32:20we are going to be prepared.
32:21If it reaches that point, we'll be prepared to litigate it.
32:24And we need to pray as the church, as families,
32:28as Christians, that this kind of evil
32:30would not ultimately prevail in California.
32:32So you can follow Jack Hibbs at Real Jack Hibbs on X.
32:36I'd encourage you to do that on Instagram as well.
32:38You can see the videos he puts out.
32:39That's how I found about this, because I follow my dear friend, Pastor Jack, and I want to
32:44know what's going on so that you can know what is going on.
32:47And we together can hopefully protect parental rights in this country.
32:51We'll be back with more here on the Hamilton Corner.
32:54I'm Jenna Ellis, filling in for A.
32:56If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic humanistic society.
33:07Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildman
33:11and how he went head to head with Hollywood,
33:13playboy, the homosexual agenda, and a Disney empire.
33:18The movement Don started paved the way for Christians
33:21to boldly stand for truth and righteousness
33:23in a hostile culture.
33:26Watch Culture Warrior today for free.
33:28Visit culturewarrior.movie.
33:31Culture is a product of us being placed
33:34in a particular location and it is God's desire
33:37that his light bearers would culture or cultivate a particular area.
33:42Join Abraham Hamilton III as he presents the biblical case for cultural engagement.
33:48It's a powerful video resource from the American Family Association's Cultural Institute Series.
33:54You and I create the culture of our country.
33:58Visit AFAStore.net.
34:02Climate change is truth exchange.
34:04This is David Wheaton, host of The Christian World View.
34:08When God created Adam and Eve, He gave them a dominion mandate to wisely rule the earth
34:13and worship God.
34:14Instead, man rebels against God and worships Himself and the earth.
34:19This has led to all manner of foolishness with the environment.
34:22Cows and crops are bad, oil and gas are bad, and humans are especially bad because we cause
34:28climate change.
34:30Their failed predictions of doom and gloom prove they are false prophets.
34:35Romans 1 says, They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshipped and served the
34:40creature rather than the Creator.
34:43Here are most recent programs on climate change with a Christian climatologist at theChristian
34:48worldview.org and then tune in this weekend for another topic that will sharpen your world
34:53view.
34:54Listen to the Christian world view with David Wheaton, Saturday mornings at 8 central on American
34:59Family Radio.
35:00The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at AFR.net.
35:11Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
35:15Welcome, welcome back to The Hamilton Corner.
35:19I'm Jenna Ellis, regular host of Jenna Ellis in the morning right here on American Family
35:23Radio from 7 to 8 central, 8 to 9 eastern, and have the distinct privilege of filling in
35:29for my good friend Abraham Hamilton III.
35:31And we've been talking throughout the program
35:33about the three institutions that got ordained,
35:36first and foremost, the family government,
35:38the church government, and then ultimately,
35:40the civil government that is supposed to protect
35:42and preserve the rights of the family,
35:45which is to keep marriage intact,
35:47to keep parental rights intact,
35:49and then the church's authority to exercise
35:53all of the things of teaching the truth of the gospel
35:56of Christ, church discipline,
35:57all of those things that the church is designed to do.
35:59the civil government is designed to preserve and protect that.
36:01Well, the civil government isn't doing such a great job
36:04here in America currently,
36:06but we have an opportunity to remedy one of those wrongs.
36:10And that comes as the Supreme Court
36:13is formally asked to overturn a landmark same sex marriage
36:18ruling that of course is Obergefell versus Hodges.
36:21And in a petition for writ of cert,
36:24that's just the fancy legal term for asking the court
36:27to hear the case, this coming from ABC News.
36:31Last month, Kim Davis, remember her,
36:33she's the former Kentucky clerk who refused to issue
36:36marriage licenses to gay couples.
36:38She argues first amendment protection
36:41for free exercise of religion immunizes her
36:43from personal liability, but then she's also arguing
36:48more fundamentally that extending marriage rights
36:52for same sex couples under the 14th Amendment's
36:54due process protections was quote unquote, egregiously wrong.
36:59And this is the first opportunity really that the Supreme Court
37:03has head on a decade later to agree with that
37:07and write this egregious wrong.
37:09So let's welcome in Mike Donnelly, who is an attorney,
37:13who has been a constitutional law professor,
37:16has taught me a lot about the US Constitution
37:19and also international law.
37:21You can follow him on X at Donnelly Speaks.
37:24and mike let's talk about overturning a burger fell
37:30well jenna yet let's talk about that and first of all the court has to decide
37:34whether or not they're going to take the case
37:36a burger fell was decided about ten years ago and it is extraordinarily unusual for
37:42the court
37:43to revisit precedent of that magnitude in such a short period in time it's
37:47almost never been done there are few cases were president was overturned within a
37:50year to but
37:51almost never
37:52on interestingly
37:54uh... justice canada you wrote
37:56the majority five four opinion back in twenty sixteen time frame
38:01uh...
38:02was offered to
38:05and yet overturned cases related to a burger fell of course i'm talking about
38:09when sir
38:10uh... which invalidated the defense of marriage act or part of it anyway back in
38:13twenty thirteen and then be
38:15before that laurant v texas which was a case which
38:18brought down
38:19anti-sadami laws
38:22uh... in two thousand three out of texas and so can you know
38:24going back a long time has been writing opinions about this issue of homosexuality, of LGBTQ rights,
38:34and he's typically been on the side, on that side, affirming and pushing forward those rights,
38:39so-called rights. And now the court is going to have an opportunity to consider whether or not
38:44they want to overturn Obergefell, which let's remember what happened back in, when that case was decided,
38:51over 30 states, maybe 32, 31 states, had already codified in their constitution that marriage was defined as between a man and a woman.
39:01That means that Justice Kennedy and his four liberal justices who joined him at that time swept away the wishes of tens of millions of Americans who had already decided that in their state, this was how they wanted to define marriage.
39:18And the let's remember also that the United States Constitution does not say anything about
39:22marriage.
39:23In fact, the marriage, the family, those issues have been primarily left to the states until
39:30the court started getting into what Clarence Thomas has called for a repudiation of, which
39:36is substantive due process.
39:39And we could talk a little about that if you want to for the folks, but ultimately the court
39:43has to decide one, are they ready to overturn precedent that was decided 10 years ago, which
39:48justice roberts by the way chief justice roberts wrote an incredible
39:52blistering and being that the sent
39:55against over the fall
39:56basically saying who do we think we are that's exactly what he said
40:00i in his dissent
40:02basically criticizing the court for overriding
40:06of the separation of federalism
40:08of washing away ten and ten of millions of
40:11state voters decisions
40:13when he wrote that descent
40:15and uh... i think that if the court does take this case which i'm not sure if they
40:18will
40:18but if they do take it
40:20virtually certain that it'll be to overturn it
40:22well i haven't
40:24i get read the full petition uh... for it of cert uh... but i hope
40:29that the lawyers who crafted it
40:32uh... quoted
40:34justice roberts to himself as as their the court is going to be reading this
40:38petition so that he can
40:40uh... be confronted with the fact that uh... he said this ten years ago
40:44and that's still true and
40:46you know as as you mentioned on my program this morning uh... mike and you're
40:49mentioning right now i mean this is something that for those on the left
40:54who are crying out well what about democracy and you know all of this the
40:57gerrymandering nonsense but i don't know you know like democracy democracy and
41:02what about the people
41:03well what about the people what about the states
41:07their opinions their constant their own state constitutions
41:10were undermined and over ridden in an unconstitutional fashion a federally
41:15unconstitutional fashion by this outrageous opinion
41:19uh...
41:20what are they saying
41:23or they're in their hands and they're very afraid and they should be because
41:27you've got a six three majority and and
41:30you know i think that would overturn this if they took it in the question of
41:33going to be whether they're ready to do that or not
41:35but they should
41:36uh... this would be opinion was wrong when it was written
41:40it's been on a collision course for the constitution since it was written
41:43and it's it's just like rovey wade
41:46uh... was wrong when it was written based on very poor logic you know kennedy
41:50tried to
41:51twist the equal protection clause
41:53to redefine what marriage is and that's what he did
41:57saying that
41:58you know there's no difference between men and women essentially when
42:01for thousands of years and god's word says
42:04that marriage is the union between a man and a woman
42:06trying to redefine a word that we all agree to,
42:08that virtually every civilization in the world
42:10agrees to, this is what marriage is.
42:12And if you wanna do something different at the state level,
42:15you wanna have a civil union,
42:16or you wanna do something that recognize long-term interests
42:20among people who have these very close relationships
42:23for whatever reason, fine, you can do that.
42:26That's not marriage.
42:28And the Supreme Court in the United States
42:31had no constitutional authority to redefine the word marriage
42:35for Justice Kennedy's own personal views
42:38with his four liberal friends.
42:40So yeah, and that's what it's about.
42:42Are the states gonna decide,
42:44are we gonna continue to move the needle back towards federalism
42:47where we are a republic and we rule ourselves,
42:53we are not ruled by judges,
42:55we get to make our own decisions,
42:56and if the states wanna do things
42:58a little bit differently in areas, that's fine.
43:01And that's what we're doing with abortion,
43:03although i think we are
43:05we've gone in the wrong direction
43:07i think the states are getting it wrong there
43:09uh... some of them got it wrong here but at the end of the day
43:12that's what a republic is
43:14and i would rather have that
43:15then being ruled by nine men or women in black robes from washington d
43:20yet well said and i'm speaking with mike donily is an attorney can follow him
43:24acts i would encourage you to do that at donily speaks he on pontificates there
43:28almost a snarky is me quite often
43:30I think we have an ongoing sort of battle.
43:33I think we have an ongoing battle of who can be the snarkiest.
43:39I'm and you all heard it here that that I'm winning that clearly.
43:42So who who?
43:43The queen of dark.
43:44Yes, I love that.
43:45I'm going to put that on my business card actually.
43:48But but practically speaking, you know, when when Dobbs what overturned row, there was legislation
43:56in place that was so-called trigger legislation that would immediately have protections in
44:02place for unborn babies and of course that's all being litigated and all.
44:07And so if the court were to take this case, overturn Obergefell, what happens to the state
44:14constitutional amendments that were in place prior to Obergefell?
44:18Well, they would be back in force.
44:22And people are like, oh, no, what about people who have gotten married and that sort of thing
44:27And there is federal legislation that was passed in 2022 called the quote unquote respect for
44:31marriage act, which I should call it the disrespect for marriage act, but whatever.
44:36Congress passed that and that law basically says that if a marriage is valid when performed
44:41in a state, then it must be recognized in other states and by the federal government.
44:46So people who have relied on Obergefell and went through and have same sex marriages that
44:52that were valid in the state,
44:56then those will continue to be recognized,
44:59but going forward, the states will be able
45:01to decipher themselves whether they're going
45:02to recognize those marriages or not.
45:05And so would that sort of precedent
45:09then just encourage, if Obergefell was overturned,
45:13just encourage California and Vegas, basically,
45:16who I'm sure will be perfectly fine
45:19to continue same-sex marriages even after,
45:22we get rid of a burger fell would with that then just encourage same-sex couples
45:26to go to those states and then they could return to their home state and
45:30basically compel the home state to say well i was validly married in california
45:34or vegas and so you gotta recognize it
45:38yeah i think we would have another case that we have to decide after that and i
45:41think the answer is probably yes i mean that's what's happening
45:44with the with a life issue you know some states are trying to make themselves
45:47out of the portion destination which is
45:49So sad and shocking, but at the end of the day, that's the battle we're called the fight.
45:53There's truth and there's falsehood, there's good and there's evil.
45:57And we live in the world where both exist and we need to point people to the truth, which
46:01is the gospel.
46:02I mean, at the end of the day, everybody needs a savior.
46:06And whether people are in a homosexual marriage or have had an abortion or thinking about having
46:10an abortion.
46:11At the end of the day, there is forgiveness from Jesus Christ.
46:16And he forgives all sin, he did it on the cross, and so all people need to do is confess their
46:22sin, and they will be saved.
46:25And then he will lead them into living a righteous life.
46:28But at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.
46:30But we still have to stand for truth, we have to protect what is right, and we have to communicate
46:37God's word to people about what is true and what is just, and there are good reasons for
46:39doing that.
46:40Absolutely.
46:41we have to hold our civil government to the ultimate authority from which they derive their powers,
46:47which isn't just in our constitutional republic consent of the governed.
46:51We actually have a higher authority than we the people which is God himself.
46:55And our declaration points to that, calling God the Supreme Judge of the universe, talking
47:00about the laws of nature and of nature's God.
47:03And it's God's authority and the order that he has that in his three institutions that
47:10that he's ordained that requires us
47:13to compel our civil government to promote good
47:17and restrain evil.
47:18And so this is one of those times.
47:19And in just the last few minutes that we have
47:22on the program, but also with you, Mike Donnelly,
47:25what about the implications and the public policy argument
47:29here that this isn't just about marriages
47:31and two consenting adults and that whole libertarian bent,
47:36but ultimately this affects children
47:38in it affects parental rights as well.
47:41Oh, that is for sure, Jenna.
47:43And marriage has always been about other people
47:47and not about the two individuals,
47:49but the homosexual interests and the lobby
47:52and that movement, unfortunately,
47:55makes it more about the feelings
47:57and the pleasure and satisfaction of the individual person.
48:01But that's not what marriage is about.
48:02I mean, if anybody's ever been married,
48:04they know it's not about you,
48:05even though you want it to be about you,
48:06it's really about the other person.
48:08and it's about the future, future generations,
48:11marriages about procreation.
48:13It is God is ordained in the family
48:15as the institution where children are born
48:17and they're to be brought up with a mother and a father.
48:19They need both.
48:21And God's ultimate purpose is that we as parents
48:24communicate who he is to future generations
48:27so that they are able to come into relationship
48:29with him through Jesus Christ
48:30and can be saved from the sin that stains all of us.
48:34And that's why it's important to fight this battle
48:37so that people hear the truth.
48:39Not just that, oh, you can do whatever you want.
48:41It's about autonomy.
48:42We get to deliver lives however we want.
48:44That's the lie that was sold to Eve in the garden.
48:47You can be like God and decide good and evil for yourself.
48:50No, we don't get to decide that.
48:52There's good, there's evil, God has ordained it.
48:54He's communicated it to us.
48:56He's written it on our heart
48:57and we need to teach that to our kids.
48:59That's what marriage and family are all about.
49:01I love it and so well said.
49:03And that's entirely what we need to focus on
49:07as Christians is ensuring that we are protecting the family,
49:12and we're protecting the institutions that God has ordained
49:15for the purpose that He ordained them.
49:17Because remember, in the very beginning of this program,
49:20the purpose of Christians in relation to these institutions,
49:23we talked about the family to model Christ-centered love
49:26and holiness and also to provide in the context of marriage,
49:30between one man and one woman,
49:32but in the context of parentage,
49:33to provide the environment,
49:35to train up a child in the way he should go,
49:37because discipleship is given to the parents,
49:42not to the state, not to anyone who claims
49:45that they wanna be a parent.
49:47Children are given to parents for training
49:50and fear and admonition of the Lord.
49:52We should also be members of a church
49:55that calls us to serve an edify one another,
49:57remain faithful to biblical truth,
49:59and in civil society, let's engage a salt and light
50:02on these issues, pray for our leaders,
50:05Pray for the Supreme Court.
50:06Pray for Gavin Newsom is these contemplating signing
50:08the Seren dis bill.
50:09We have to be the salt and light.
50:11So Mike Donnelly, thanks so much.
50:13You can follow him at DonnellySpeaks.
50:15You can follow me at real Jenna Ellis.
50:17And as always, you can reach me and my team, Jenna,
50:19at afr.net.
50:21And it has been such a great privilege
50:23to sit in for the great Abraham Hamilton the third,
50:26right here on Hamilton Corner,
50:28and be with you tonight on AFR.
50:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast
50:42may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.

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