Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by American homicide detective, J. Warner Wallace

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:33Well, good evening America.
12. 0:34Alex McFarland here coming to you from Western North Carolina,
13. 0:38the Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center in Asheville,
14. 0:41North Carolina.
15. 0:42And have we got a show tonight?
16. 0:44You do not want to miss the next few moments
17. 0:47of radio on the American Family Radio Network.
18. 0:49Because here to my right is our friend and colleague, J.
19. 0:53Warner Wallace.
20. 0:54Thanks for having me.
21. 0:55Thanks for having you.
22. 0:56Yeah, yeah.
23. 0:56graciously agreeing to be with us this hour,
24. 1:00and he's just moments away from taking the stage
25. 1:02and speaking.
26. 1:03So for one thing, I got a lot of things
27. 1:05I want to thank you and commend you for.
28. 1:07But thanks for being with us as you're really in root
29. 1:11to give a lecture tonight.
30. 1:13Yes, as you know, we've been doing,
31. 1:14we're actually dividing up, I think, 12 or 13 or 14
32. 1:17lectures that we're doing here at the Cove.
33. 1:20This is a great opportunity.
34. 1:21This is my first time doing a week long series here
35. 1:24the go, but this audience has been just spectacular and interested Christians who want to be able
36. 1:31to defend and articulate their faith and it's just been a great opportunity.
37. 1:35Absolutely.
38. 1:36Absolutely.
39. 1:37You know, we've talked about atheism.
40. 1:38We've talked about is the Bible trustworthy?
41. 1:41Does God exist?
42. 1:43And later on in the show, we're going to take some calls in the third segment.
43. 1:46I'm going to go ahead and give that number and you know, you can get in the queue because
44. 1:50It's a rare opportunity to talk with one of the preeminent best-selling apologists of
45. 1:57recent years, Jay Warner Wallace, and we'll talk about his books, but the number is triple
46. 2:01eight, five, eight, nine, eighty-eight, forty.
47. 2:04That's triple eight, five, eight, nine, eighty-eight, forty.
48. 2:08As I say, we want to get to calls to the third segment, but you can get in the queue if you
49. 2:12want to.
50. 2:13But for those that may be unaware, I want to really queue it up and hear a little bit
51. 2:19of your story and with all my heart I could not be more sincere. The respect I have for
52. 2:25this man is just beyond words because Jim, you are brilliant, you are faithful to God's
53. 2:31Word, you're an ambassador for the gospel, but I happen to know you do this from the heart.
54. 2:37You're a minister, one of the best representatives of Jesus that is also, you kind of have one
55. 2:43One foot in academia, one foot in ministry, and I've been around a lot of people in terms
56. 2:49of someone who's absolutely authentic.
57. 2:53You're at the top of the list, and I commend you, my friend.
58. 2:56You are very kind.
59. 2:57A lot of this is what's so great about getting to do this in this season of life is that I'm
60. 3:01an older guy now, and we kind of did have a whole career working in law enforcement
61. 3:06that gives me an opportunity now in my retirement to just do the things that we both love to
62. 3:10do.
63. 3:11How cool is it that we get to do the stuff that we are passionate about?
64. 3:15Anyway, I think at this stage in life, I would have been in Scripture every day anyway.
65. 3:20Now I get to learn something and then teach it to others.
66. 3:22I think that's really the joy of when I think about my passion for God.
67. 3:27Really, it's just a passion for God's word, right?
68. 3:29I'm looking at it forensically.
69. 3:30I'm digging through it every day fascinated by something new that you find.
70. 3:35And then you want to share it with somebody.
71. 3:37And I'm always pastoring my wife.
72. 3:39Look when I found it in scripture, what do you think of this?
73. 3:41And I'm sure she's at a point right now, she's like, okay, that's great.
74. 3:45So when we come to these events for a week, we get a chance to talk to people who also
75. 3:49would like to know, like, what is there something from scripture that will help me either articulate
76. 3:54my faith, defend my faith, have more confidence in the culture in which we're living, raise
77. 3:59my kids, raise my grandkids.
78. 4:01These are the kinds of things that it's just a joy to be able to help people to think
79. 4:04through them because I'm also struggling with some of those things.
80. 4:07I want to do better at it also.
81. 4:09So this is a chance for us to do it together.
82. 4:10Indeed.
83. 4:11You mentioned forensically.
84. 4:14What does that mean to look at something forensically?
85. 4:18Well, this is from a Latin word that basically means
86. 4:20to make a public case for.
87. 4:23And so what I'm looking at are the things that I'm always
88. 4:28dissecting the scripture and going, oh, wow, this is interesting.
89. 4:30Why would Matthew have included this detail?
90. 4:35Is it something that's necessary?
91. 4:36if it's not necessary, why would he have included it?
92. 4:38Maybe I'm not seen, maybe it is necessary,
93. 4:40maybe I need to study it more.
94. 4:42And so what you're doing is you're kind of looking
95. 4:43at each line of scripture as if it's a piece of evidence
96. 4:48that's giving away something that's hidden,
97. 4:51something, this is what you're doing with people
98. 4:52is suspect statements.
99. 4:54When I read a statement of a suspect,
100. 4:56because I've worked Col case homicides for years,
101. 4:59when you're reading a suspect statement,
102. 5:00you're thinking, oh, I bet you he's gonna say something here
103. 5:03that's gonna give him away.
104. 5:05I'm just reading over it.
105. 5:06I'm just missing it.
106. 5:07Let me be more, a little more careful.
107. 5:09Let me examine the kinds of words.
108. 5:10You know, we're at a conference right now, pardon me,
109. 5:13where we've got one attendee here, Sharon Smith,
110. 5:16who I worked with for years.
111. 5:18She's a cycle linguist from the FBI.
112. 5:20And together we would do this forensic statement analysis
113. 5:24on suspects, kind of looking to see,
114. 5:26did they say anything that gave away a lie,
115. 5:29looking for deception indicators,
116. 5:31looking for these things that are little tells.
117. 5:34So is this our guy? Is this the right guy? What did he say that would indicate he's the right guy?
118. 5:38For years, she did threat assessment where she was just reading threats from people that would mail
119. 5:43him into corporations or to ministries or to the government and assessing whether or not their
120. 5:48language could tell her if they were serious about the threat. Well, okay, what have you applied this?
121. 5:54Looking at all the different ways that people provide hidden information
122. 6:00in the way they communicate something. Well, I've always read scripture that way. That's really how
123. 6:03I got interested, give me an example. When I first got interested in the Bible,
124. 6:08pastor said Jesus was a smart guy, so I bought a Bible, and I opened up the gospel of Mark.
125. 6:13And I think I started in that gospel because it was so short.
126. 6:17It's pretty exciting.
127. 6:18Just give me a reader's digest version here.
128. 6:21I was not a Christian, so I just wanted to kind of get to the chase.
129. 6:24So I'm reading through Mark's gospel, and there are so many places where there are little
130. 6:28tells. Like, you know, I learned much later that in history, there were early Christians
131. 6:34who claimed that Mark was scribing for Peter. Well, is there anything in Mark's gospel that
132. 6:40would give away the fact that maybe he is an associate of Peter and is scribing Peter's
133. 6:46accounts? Well, there's tons of stuff in there. And that's the kind of stuff that was fascinating
134. 6:51to me. Like, let's make a claim. Did Jesus really claim to be God? What kind of language
135. 6:56did he use that would give away the fact that he was or wasn't God. That whole forensic approach
136. 7:00to reading the words of scripture for me was that's what I'm fascinated in and I just kind of imported
137. 7:05that from detective work into the scriptures and I was just geeked out. I remember when I first got
138. 7:11interested in this I think my wife thought I was crazy because I'm not a Christian but here I am
139. 7:16devouring scripture and I was not trying to prove it wrong. I wasn't likely our friendly struggle
140. 7:22who was trying to prove lastly wrong. I wasn't doing that. I didn't care. I mean I didn't have
141. 7:26have an interest, it's, Susie wasn't a believer either, so it was easy for me just to kind
142. 7:30of start reading.
143. 7:31But here I am reading through the Bible and dissecting it forensically, and I think Susie
144. 7:35thought I was nuts.
145. 7:36But in the end, I just got to a place where I don't, I think I thought it passed the test.
146. 7:41It passed all the tests that you would apply to an eyewitness account, and then I was, ultimately
147. 7:46I felt like I was stuck with Jesus in a good way.
148. 7:48But I mean, I just knew that it was true, so that changed everything for us.
149. 7:53story, great story. And folks, if you're listening to this and maybe you are a Christian or maybe
150. 8:00you know somebody who is not a Christian, somebody you're concerned about, you know, at
151. 8:04AFR.net, this show will be up on the server and maybe even after we're done, we're going
152. 8:09to, in our conversation, we're going to plumb some subjects and drill down deeply, but you
153. 8:14might want to share a link with somebody that is kind of kicking the tires and saying, gee,
154. 8:19is this real? Is this really true? I think J Warner Wallace's journey would be pretty enlightening
155. 8:26for a lot of people. I got to ask you, so you were in law enforcement. Now, did you go in
156. 8:32as a detective or did that develop later on as you were a policeman?
157. 8:37Yeah, so funny because so many people, young people, will come up to you and say, I'm interested
158. 8:41in being a detective. Well, okay, you don't just enter into a detective position. That's
159. 8:45usually something you either promote depending on the department or you just get selected
160. 8:49or you apply for it, you start off as a patrol officer.
161. 8:52So you walk in and you go to the academy,
162. 8:54you work in patrol for any number of years.
163. 8:57I also worked street narcotics for a while.
164. 8:59I did three years in SWAT.
165. 9:00I worked undercover for a number of years.
166. 9:03I worked two years in gangs.
167. 9:04And then ultimately I was assigned a robbery homicide.
168. 9:07And then after I was there for five years,
169. 9:09well, then I started working cold cases.
170. 9:12So that was kind of my journey.
171. 9:14I mean, my son's journey even seems like now
172. 9:16it's pretty similar.
173. 9:17You know, you work patrol, you're an FTO.
174. 9:18now he's working undercover. These are the things we end up doing in a typical career
175. 9:22trail in law enforcement. But once I got detectives I really felt like I was in my
176. 9:27sweet spot. I was really interested. Yes, Los Angeles County, just south of LAPD's
177. 9:33jurisdiction and that was just a great place to... There's a lot of activity going
178. 9:39on and it was just enough activity and we were at a southern part of the city. The
179. 9:45The crimes were a little trickier to work sometimes,
180. 9:48because I worked a lot to be honest with you.
181. 9:49You've ever seen Jim Gaffig in the community
182. 9:51and talks about Dateline, how it seems like every murder
183. 9:56is a spousal murder on Dateline,
184. 9:58because it seems like every happy marriage ends in a murder.
185. 10:01Well, we had a lot of those in our city.
186. 10:04And so some of those cases are the most intriguing to work
187. 10:08because they're often thoughtful people
188. 10:10who take a long time planning
189. 10:12and often do a great job of covering their tracks afterwards.
190. 10:16And just on a selfish perspective, they're fun to work
191. 10:19because it's almost like a cat and mouse game.
192. 10:22And if you're working cold cases,
193. 10:24then this killer has been on the loose,
194. 10:25had been able to avoid detection for 30 years.
195. 10:29He really does feel like he's good at this.
196. 10:31Well, I wanna be good at it too.
197. 10:33So now it really is a cat and mouse game,
198. 10:34especially during the first interviews.
199. 10:36You know, you mentioned Dateline,
200. 10:38which for years and years, I've loved to watch that show.
201. 10:41One of the reasons, Keith Morrison, you're calling.
202. 10:45I love his voice.
203. 10:47You know, he'll do too.
204. 10:49Bill thought that he had gotten away.
205. 10:52But witnesses say this.
206. 10:54Jim Gaffigan does a great imitation.
207. 10:56He does a great Keith Morrison, yeah he does.
208. 10:58And I remember there would be somebody
209. 11:00whose his alibi was that he was 250 miles away.
210. 11:04And maybe there's like a four and a half hour window
211. 11:07and it is conceivable that he could have driven
212. 11:11done the crime. And one night Angie, not my wife Angie and I, we were, this is
213. 11:16probably four or five years ago, she shouted, she goes, come here, come here, come here.
214. 11:20Jim Wallace is on Dateline. And you know, you've been on there a number of
215. 11:25times. Yeah, I think I've still held the record for my course, you know, as you get
216. 11:29older, you wonder how it's gonna break the record. But I think I still hold the
217. 11:32record for most appearances on Dateline. But I'll tell you that that working with
218. 11:36Keith was really fascinating because he's a very good interviewer. It's not just
219. 11:40that he's got that great voice. It's that he has the ability to get people to say
220. 11:45things, not not necessarily the cops he's interviewing. You know he interviews
221. 11:48everybody. He interviews the family and he asks interesting probing questions that
222. 11:53he gets very interesting answers from and then of course he is able to narrate
223. 11:57this in this loopy kind of just Google Saturday Night Live Keith Morrison. You
224. 12:02see the skits that have been done on Keith Morrison. They're just fabulous but
225. 12:06But he's actually a very interesting, very accessible kind of guy and a really a great
226. 12:13man to work with in all those.
227. 12:15I really appreciate his kindness to me over the years.
228. 12:18Is there a time like in a case and you spent hours and hours pouring over data and then
229. 12:25all of a sudden there's an aha moment.
230. 12:27Oh yeah.
231. 12:28Oh, there's definitely many of those.
232. 12:30Yeah.
233. 12:31There's just a point of jubilant because you spend so much time.
234. 12:34Now, often in these cases, you're kind of like you're fishing.
235. 12:37You think you know where to cast, though.
236. 12:40So you're not just throwing the lure out anywhere.
237. 12:43You think over in this area, this person might know something.
238. 12:46I've done wire cases where we had to listen on a wire to see if somebody would say something.
239. 12:50I've done cases where if this one interview goes the way it should, we're going to get
240. 12:53a piece of information that's going to change the case.
241. 12:55I've done cases where this one piece of forensic evidence tests out and matches this.
242. 13:01It's going to break the case.
243. 13:03So yeah, there are moments when you just feel like, okay, finally, we have a break.
244. 13:08We have a...
245. 13:09We use that language.
246. 13:10We have a break in the case because it means we've been pushing and trying and trying and
247. 13:13nothing is...
248. 13:14Everything has been a dead end.
249. 13:15Look, I had a case.
250. 13:16I think you and I talked about this where I had a killer from 1972.
251. 13:20We didn't take that guy.
252. 13:21Well, we didn't identify that guy until 2019.
253. 13:23From 1972 to 2019, my dad had that case first.
254. 13:28It went cold under his investigation.
255. 13:30I reopened it in another 17 years past before we were able to solve it.
256. 13:35I'll tell you, that's the kind of case where you feel like,
257. 13:38of course, if you're going to spend that many years working something,
258. 13:41when it finally breaks,
259. 13:43you're going to feel a sense of not just relief.
260. 13:46As a matter of fact, when that case did break and they did the press release,
261. 13:50all of the detectives who worked on that case in my dad's generation wanted to come to the press release,
262. 13:56and they came to the press conference and they wept.
263. 14:00These are guys who are, you know, a generation before me in law enforcement, and I'm an old guy.
264. 14:05And these are tough guys, and but just the relief of knowing that this thing that had been open and unsolved for all those years
265. 14:12was finally closing.
266. 14:15And just being served.
267. 14:17Yeah, exactly. And I think a part of it is, you know, we're sad that most people think the cops aren't affected by working a bunch of murders,
268. 14:25but of course they are, and especially when children are killed,
269. 14:28sure that's the kind of thing that people will eventually cry.
270. 14:31We're gonna have to take a break. Alex MacFarlane here along with Jay Warner Wallace,
271. 14:35best-song author, apologists. We're gonna talk more about his books,
272. 14:40cold-case Christianity, and so much more, and apologetics. Plus, your calls.
273. 14:45Stay tuned, the American Family Radio Network is back after this brief break.
274. 14:49Don't go away.
275. 14:50A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
276. 15:03Our words are powerful, much more so than we as human beings typically understand.
277. 15:08A saying that used to be popular years ago stated,
278. 15:11Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me.
279. 15:16This is possibly one of the biggest lies you will ever hear.
280. 15:20Words can hurt to an extreme degree, and people use them to hurt others every single day.
281. 15:27Yet for us as believers, followers of Christ, our goal is to use our words every day
282. 15:32to bless others and point them to Christ.
283. 15:37Our words should bless others, promote healing in people's lives,
284. 15:41grace and encouragement in the lives of those around us.
285. 15:44We should habitually lift others up by our words.
286. 15:48It is in fact relatively easy to bless others
287. 15:51and encourage people with our words
288. 15:53if we wisely and very deliberately seek to do so.
289. 16:05Shiting light into the darkness,
290. 16:07this is the Hamilton Quarter,
291. 16:08on American Family Radio.
292. 16:12Welcome back to the program.
293. 16:13You know, when I think of somebody like Jim Wallace,
294. 16:16I think of 2 Peter 1 16, which is one of my favorite passages,
295. 16:20it says regarding the gospel,
296. 16:22we have not followed cleverly devised fables
297. 16:25when we made known under you the power
298. 16:27in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
299. 16:29And the gospel that Jesus, the Son of God,
300. 16:34incarnated himself, came to earth.
301. 16:36and he was not only able but willing to go to the cross-pair
302. 16:41sin debt, it's not a myth or a legend.
303. 16:44And while we believe in Christ by faith,
304. 16:48it is very much a faith corroborated by evidence,
305. 16:52empirical data that can be looked at.
306. 16:55And I say that because you may be listening
307. 16:58and maybe you know about God or you know about Jesus even,
308. 17:02but it's a relationship and it is real.
309. 17:05And God doesn't ask you to take a step into the dark
310. 17:09for some blind, baseless, irrational faith.
311. 17:13No, it is a very reasoned, very real,
312. 17:17very legitimate response to known evidence
313. 17:21that God invites you to make.
314. 17:23And I say that because listening live right now,
315. 17:27or maybe if you stumble across this file a year from now,
316. 17:32the gospel is real.
317. 17:33Jim, you were talking about reading Mark.
318. 17:35I remember I was a college student going to UNC Greensboro,
319. 17:38and I'd been in a, like a world religions class,
320. 17:42and one of the professors had said,
321. 17:45well, Jesus never claimed to really be God.
322. 17:47And he was a good teacher, he was a moral example.
323. 17:50He was a role model.
324. 17:51But I remember I was reading Mark,
325. 17:54and I had been in English and literature,
326. 17:58and in Mark chapter two,
327. 17:59Jesus claimed that he had the power to forgive sin.
328. 18:03They lowered a man down through the roof and I was like,
329. 18:05now wait a minute, only God can forgive sin.
330. 18:10I think Jesus did see himself as God incarnate.
331. 18:14Right. I mean, think about how controversial that would be.
332. 18:16So he comes down and he says, your sins are forgiven.
333. 18:19No, hold on.
334. 18:21All he could forgive, all any of us forgive are those sins that are committed against us.
335. 18:26So how many sins do you think this guy on the mat had committed against Jesus at that time?
336. 18:31No, he's saying not just, yeah, is this sins you've committed against anyone?
337. 18:36Well, there's no one who can do that.
338. 18:39We can all forgive people for the things that have been done to us.
339. 18:41But the only person that can forgive the only being that can forgive you for things you've
340. 18:45done to everybody would have to be God because every one of those sins that you committed
341. 18:48against all of those humans, you actually committed against God.
342. 18:52So God could forgive you of your sins in those other instances.
343. 18:56And I think the people who heard this, that's the other thing too.
344. 18:59I often will see people cite these instances out of context.
345. 19:04Just look at the reaction that Jesus always gets
346. 19:07when he says something like this.
347. 19:09The people who heard this in the first century
348. 19:11clearly interpreted it as just that.
349. 19:14Who does this guy think he is?
350. 19:16To say that when he calls himself the I Am
351. 19:19or says that he existed before Abraham,
352. 19:21that hearers wanted to stone him for this statement.
353. 19:24Why?
354. 19:25Because he's saying something that they clearly interpreted
355. 19:28blasphemous. He's claiming to be God. You know, I think it's so funny there's a
356. 19:33scene in John because let's face it, Jesus often did not speak directly about this
357. 19:38but spoken away that would cause his hearers to have to come and ask for
358. 19:42clarification. I don't know if you've ever seen, if he goes through, I think it's
359. 19:45Mark 4. It's one of the first, if not the first, public teaching ever of Jesus. It's
360. 19:50the parable of the of the of the sower. And he teaches it and everyone's like
361. 19:55What in the world is he talking about?
362. 19:57And even his own disciples come to him and say,
363. 19:59what was that about?
364. 20:00What was that teaching about?
365. 20:01And he talks about how only those who have ears
366. 20:03will hear and eyes will see.
367. 20:06And it's very interesting to me that he's saying things
368. 20:08in such a way that people in order to take the next step
369. 20:12to understand what he's saying have to come to him
370. 20:15for clarification.
371. 20:16It's as if he's fishing with parables
372. 20:20and you've been caught if you're like,
373. 20:21hey, tell me more about that, tell me more.
374. 20:23And some people didn't ask to be told more.
375. 20:27And he was fishing with your interest in the parable.
376. 20:29At some point in John,
377. 20:30I think it's in the later chapters of John,
378. 20:33he's at the temple and somebody says,
379. 20:36come on, just tell us, just be straight with us.
380. 20:39Are you the son of God?
381. 20:42And he doesn't even, again,
382. 20:43he answers with a rather questioning parabolic kind of a statement.
383. 20:47And I thought, isn't that interesting
384. 20:49that Jesus spoke in a way that people knew
385. 20:53when he did finally speak outright
386. 20:56and used the great I am in John chapter eight.
387. 20:59People knew what he was saying.
388. 21:01They knew he was making a claim to deity.
389. 21:03So while a skeptic might say in this generation,
390. 21:05well, Jesus never said he was God,
391. 21:07clearly the people who were in the first century
392. 21:10who heard him speak thought otherwise
393. 21:12and they were willing to kill him for that statement.
394. 21:14Yeah, I mean, seriously, like in the Gospel of Mark
395. 21:17and very often we refer to Mark
396. 21:19because in general, even critical scholars,
397. 21:22there's a term called Marken Priority,
398. 21:26that they even skeptics give at least a little bit
399. 21:30of nod to the Gospel of Marken.
400. 21:32Yes, I agree.
401. 21:33If you read Mark 14, 61 through 63,
402. 21:37they said, we demand, are you the son of the blessed one?
403. 21:40Yes.
404. 21:40And Jesus quotes two scriptures, he says, I am,
405. 21:44which Exodus 3, 14, a pious Jew of the first century,
406. 21:47would not even vocalize that.
407. 21:49And then he quotes Daniel and he refers to himself as son.
408. 21:53And they rip their clothes.
409. 21:54And we don't need to do that.
410. 21:55While they do in charge, exactly.
411. 21:57You've now set enough to warrant your execution.
412. 22:00Now that's just to me.
413. 22:01So it's really in the context of this.
414. 22:03I love the idea of Mark and Priori also.
415. 22:05I hope we have time to go through.
416. 22:06I wanted to say so interesting.
417. 22:08So I do believe that like many scholars today, although not,
418. 22:13this has not always been the case,
419. 22:14that there are this many scholars who would agree
420. 22:16with Mark in priority, that Mark was the first gospel.
421. 22:19But I also believe Mark is the first gospel.
422. 22:22And one of the things you'll see is that
423. 22:23in the earliest century, or the earliest decades,
424. 22:26I should say, of the Christian church,
425. 22:28a number of heresies arose, kind of simultaneously.
426. 22:32And I thought, you know,
427. 22:33why do these heresies are rottositism
428. 22:35and it sort of forms anosicism,
429. 22:37these are arising in the early church?
430. 22:40Well, why is that happening?
431. 22:41Well, largely because Mark's gospel is so brief,
432. 22:45I think Mark actually believed,
433. 22:46we better get this out now because Jesus is gonna come back
434. 22:49and we need, and then of course, John,
435. 22:51the brother of James is martyred of John,
436. 22:56is martyred in 44 AD.
437. 22:58Now I think you start to see these gospels being written.
438. 23:00Now what's interesting is all of those heresies,
439. 23:04if you look and just look through a Matthew
440. 23:06to see if there are any verses
441. 23:09that address the earliest heresies,
442. 23:11you're gonna find a bunch of Matthew
443. 23:13actually addresses the early heresies.
444. 23:16And then if you look for the parallel verses
445. 23:19in the Gospel of Mark,
446. 23:21that are parallel to the Gospel of Matthew,
447. 23:23you'll find there are none.
448. 23:25It turns out many of those heresies occurred
449. 23:27because Mark's Gospel was so brief
450. 23:31that the heresies were able to emerge.
451. 23:33Matthew's Gospel settles the issue.
452. 23:36Matthew's Gospel is robust enough.
453. 23:38Things that actually happened,
454. 23:39but weren't mentioned by Mark,
455. 23:41and it settled the issue for all of those early heretics.
456. 23:44It's just another evidence to me
457. 23:46that Matthew's gospel comes after Mark
458. 23:48because it seems to address many of the heresies
459. 23:51that sprang up in the first few decades
460. 23:53that were really because there wasn't enough information.
461. 23:56You know, does Jesus have, is he a real human?
462. 23:59Did he have a real body?
463. 24:00Well, there's no birth narrative in Mark.
464. 24:02Dostatus could look at Mark and say,
465. 24:04yeah, I think he's just all spirit.
466. 24:07He has no human body.
467. 24:08But you can't get that impression from Matthew
468. 24:11because he's got several passages that really appear to be addressing the issue of docitism.
469. 24:16And I think those things, of course, actually happened, but Mark's gospel is intentionally
470. 24:20brief.
471. 24:21It's kind of like when we are at a crime scene.
472. 24:24A robbery occurs.
473. 24:25We get on the radio, the first guy who gets there, he says, okay, it's a white male in
474. 24:30a Ford truck yellow in color.
475. 24:32That's all he says.
476. 24:33Now all the cars in the area are getting looking for that white male in a yellow Ford
477. 24:36truck.
478. 24:37Now, a few more minutes, he says, okay, he's wearing a white t-shirt blue jeans.
479. 24:40He's got short black hair.
480. 24:42Okay, now we got more detail.
481. 24:43And when I finally get there,
482. 24:45I'm taking a longer and longer report.
483. 24:47So the earliest reports are brief because they are urgent.
484. 24:50The later reports are more detailed
485. 24:52because they are reflective.
486. 24:53That's what you see in the progress of gospels
487. 24:55from Mark to Matthew.
488. 24:57You know, the whole Bible is the word of God,
489. 25:00but for Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John,
490. 25:02these are like four biographies of Jesus.
491. 25:05The New Testament, which is really kind of the second half
492. 25:08the Bible begins with these four biographies. And they say in some instances, they say they
493. 25:16report on the same things. But in other instances, they report on different things. I remember
494. 25:22as a college student, and in many ways I'm still 35 years in, I'm as excited, I'm more
495. 25:29excited than I was even. And I was on fire back then. I remember I had heard that Luke
496. 25:36was a physician and in the Gospel of Luke when the Roman soldier pierced his Jesus' side
497. 25:43with a spear, blood and water came out.
498. 25:46And I remember, and I was reading in a Josh McDowell book, that's probably exactly what
499. 25:52a physician would notice.
500. 25:54Well look at Matthew.
501. 25:56Matthew was a tax collector.
502. 25:58You would compare the number of times that Matthew mentions either gold, silver or bronze
503. 26:04as a monetary system.
504. 26:06Or you mentioned numbers, other people will describe an event, but never mention the number
505. 26:12of people who are there.
506. 26:13Who mentions all the numbers?
507. 26:15The number guy.
508. 26:16CPA.
509. 26:17Yeah, the number guy Matthew.
510. 26:18There's so much about Matthew's gospel.
511. 26:21Also you'll see amazing stories in Matthew's gospel of people who were considered vile,
512. 26:27who are utterly transformed.
513. 26:29Well who was considered vile, it was utterly transformed.
514. 26:32That's Matthew.
515. 26:33for the IRS. Yes, exactly. So Matthew does kind of give himself away as the tax collector
516. 26:39who Jesus meets in Matthew 9, was originally called Levi in all the other gospels. He's called
517. 26:45Levi and Luke it and Mark. But the point is what's great about Matthew is that just like Mark gives
518. 26:51himself away as a friend of Peter, for example, you will not find many, all the stupid things that
519. 26:55Peter says in the gospels and he says many silly things. He doesn't say him in Mark. Mark has the
520. 27:00the most flattering version of Peter's silliness.
521. 27:04Peter's going to get out of the boat when Jesus is walking on water.
522. 27:08But he doesn't do that in Mark.
523. 27:09In Mark he stays in the boat.
524. 27:11In Matthew he gets out and he sinks and he's scolded by Jesus.
525. 27:14Little faith.
526. 27:15Mark doesn't even mention he gets out of the boat.
527. 27:18Again, you'll see lots of little tells in each gospel that kind of give away the authorship.
528. 27:24And these things that you get a cohesive picture of Jesus, but four different voices as a detective,
529. 27:34what does that say to you about the credibility of these four biographies?
530. 27:38Right.
531. 27:39Well, here's what we should talk about.
532. 27:40We often think, okay, this is God's word, as God has inspired this, but of course he allows
533. 27:45the eyewitness to speak from their own mindset with their own language and their own context.
534. 27:50And so eyewitnesses do this all the time.
535. 27:53You may only be talking about the angel that is speaking to you.
536. 27:56So it sounds like there's only one angel present.
537. 27:58Another person will not even talk about what that one angel said, but will mention
538. 28:01that there were two angels present.
539. 28:03It does not mean there's a contradiction in the account.
540. 28:05It means that each person who's writing is focusing on one thing.
541. 28:10This is often the case in eyewitness accounts.
542. 28:13I've never had a set of five or six eyewitnesses to anything who agreed entirely.
543. 28:19They're going to disagree about a number of things.
544. 28:21when they are put together as a puzzle, you see, oh, it's all the same account. There is
545. 28:25no real disagreement. It's just that each person is focusing on one piece. The only thing I
546. 28:30ask as a homicide detective in the middle of the night when you call me out is have the
547. 28:35officer on the scene separate the eyewitnesses. Because if you don't separate eyewitnesses,
548. 28:40you're going to get one story five times. They're going to work out all the details.
549. 28:45They're going to end up really kind of smoothing something over that I don't want you to smooth
550. 28:49though, because that's my job as the detective. God's word has been presented to us in a way
551. 28:54that we can investigate it and to determine that it's reliable and have the most robust
552. 28:59puzzle we could possibly have.
553. 29:01So the differences, they're not discrepancies, but they're nuances and differences.
554. 29:06Absolutely.
555. 29:07You're saying that adds credibility.
556. 29:08Well, this is what provoked me. So I bought my first Bible as a Pew Bible. It was super
557. 29:12small. It had very small margins.
558. 29:14Like a hardback.
559. 29:15Yes, the kind of $7. I wasn't going to spend a lot of $6 or $7. It wasn't going to be a
560. 29:18I wasn't going to spend a lot of money for this.
561. 29:20So I bought a Bible.
562. 29:21I didn't know a Bible.
563. 29:22It was a few Bible that like picked, beat up and picked with all the old bookstores.
564. 29:26So I buy this Bible, bring it home.
565. 29:28And I'm reading through the Gospels just to see what's so smart about Jesus.
566. 29:30This pastor said Jesus was smart.
567. 29:32So I'm reading through the Gospels.
568. 29:34And I'm going, ah, look at how different this guy, this has got to be the same event he's
569. 29:37describing as the other author.
570. 29:40So why is this guy's description different?
571. 29:43And I started to see this over and over and over and over again.
572. 29:46Well, that's exactly what you see when you open up an old case book where you've got five
573. 29:50supplemental reports that were written by detectives who had interviewed eyewitnesses, just like Luke
574. 29:55says he is interviewing the eyewitnesses and the servants of the word, and they write these
575. 30:00reports and there are these variations between these.
576. 30:03Now often you're lucky enough to have witnesses who are still alive and you can go and you
577. 30:07can ask them additional questions.
578. 30:09But often in cold cases, these people are dead now and I can't go back out and ask additional
579. 30:15questions to clarify what they really saw. That's much like what we're doing here with
580. 30:19the Gospels, right? Now, if God intended to deliver to us four true, reliable eyewitness
581. 30:27accounts that were written in such a way that we could test them as eyewitness accounts, he
582. 30:32did an excellent job because that's what we have. And I think that was God's intention.
583. 30:37It's not as though, because by the way, if you had four accounts that were exactly the
584. 30:40the same, you would need just one account.
585. 30:43You need all four and the earliest eyewitnesses knew as they were assembling this, as they were
586. 30:48writing it, that they had slightly different variations of their account.
587. 30:53It didn't stop them from writing it and the first people who assembled the New Testament
588. 30:57didn't try to redact out all the things that seem to be different.
589. 31:00Though they left that stuff in there because that's what eyewitnesses do.
590. 31:04They talk that way, they report that way and they allow us to test them that way.
591. 31:09You were talking about Peter and Mark perhaps working together on this.
592. 31:15Yeah, I love in Mark 16 verse 7 when the angel at the tomb says, I know that you seek Jesus,
593. 31:22he is not here, he's risen.
594. 31:24Go tell his disciples and Peter.
595. 31:27Now the last time we saw Peter, he was denying the Lord.
596. 31:31And let me just say we serve the God of the second and third and 50th chance.
597. 31:37Isn't that so sweet that, hey, don't forget Peter.
598. 31:41Well, I'm not through with him.
599. 31:42Exactly.
600. 31:43Of course, he makes the biggest mistake,
601. 31:44but isn't it interesting that the author,
602. 31:48who is listening to Peter preach in Rome,
603. 31:50and is now writing the, basically, the memoirs of Peter.
604. 31:52And he's not writing them as unnecessarily
605. 31:54a historical chronicle.
606. 31:55He's writing them in themes
607. 31:57because Peter is preaching in Rome.
608. 31:59For example, how many times does Peter say something silly?
609. 32:02It's in all the gospel.
610. 32:03Well, only in March gospel,
611. 32:04you see Mark right at this way.
612. 32:06Peter says this silly thing and all the other disciples agreed.
613. 32:11You see that little added part of the sentence in Mark's Gospel because it's like, hey, it's
614. 32:17not just Peter who's in a fool here.
615. 32:19Everybody else felt the same way.
616. 32:20That's what Mark does for Peter over and over and over again.
617. 32:23Well, folks, this is J Warner Wallace.
618. 32:26When we come back, we're going to get some questions.
619. 32:28The number, triple eight, five, eight, nine, eighty eight, forty.
620. 32:31That's eight, eight, eight, five, eight, eight, eighty eight, forty, toll free nationwide
621. 32:35If you have some apologetics questions, Bible questions, we'll be honored here from you.
622. 32:41Jim Wallace and myself will do our best to give you a factual answer.
623. 32:46This is the Hamilton Corner on the American Family Radio Network, Alex McFarland.
624. 32:50So glad you're listening.
625. 32:51Stay tuned.
626. 32:52A brief break.
627. 32:53And then we return.
628. 33:01In a recent survey of 1,200 left of Central American adults, 55% responded that assassinating
629. 33:07Donald Trump could be justified.
630. 33:09We're swimming in shark infested cultural waters.
631. 33:12Some are suffering from Christianophobia.
632. 33:14Jesus said, if they persecuted me,
633. 33:16they'll also persecute you.
634. 33:18Please give today to help AFA keep equipping you
635. 33:21and others to stand for Christ.
636. 33:23Help us shine his light into our dark culture.
637. 33:26Visit AFA.net.
638. 33:28Slash Warrior.
639. 33:29All right, Sandy, we have one more drama playing out.
640. 33:34Is the sky falling?
641. 33:36Are we going into a recession?
642. 33:37Are you going to lose all of your 401k?
643. 33:40Are you going to lose your job?
644. 33:41Are you going to be able to afford groceries?
645. 33:43People better be trained in their kids,
646. 33:45get back into church, Sunday school, read in the Bible.
647. 33:48That revolution will save this country.
648. 33:50We've had a political revolution now.
649. 33:53We need a spiritual revolution.
650. 33:55Sandy Rios on Sandy Rios 24-7.
651. 33:59Listen on the podcast page at AFR.net.
652. 34:07The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common
653. 34:10are available at efr.net.
654. 34:12Back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
655. 34:18Hey, welcome back to the program.
656. 34:19Alex McFarland here, we're gonna resume our conversation
657. 34:21with Jay Warner Wallace, cold case detective,
658. 34:24and defender of Christianity.
659. 34:26And we are gonna take calls, I see calls coming up,
660. 34:29the number, if you have a Bible question,
661. 34:32an apologetics question, maybe you're a skeptic yourself.
662. 34:36Hey, let's have a respectful dialogue here.
663. 34:39Maybe if you think all this, this God stuff is just,
664. 34:42just not real, call us, triple eight, five, eight,
665. 34:45nine, eight, eight, 40.
666. 34:47I do wanna mention coming up August 21, Charlie Kirk,
667. 34:51and I will be in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
668. 34:54at the Alabama Theater, it's a big theater,
669. 34:56but listen, our friend Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA,
670. 35:00he's a great Christian brother
671. 35:02and just an incredible political voice.
672. 35:04He and I have shared this stage a few times,
673. 35:06And he's joining Fox and Friends Morning Show.
674. 35:10So this will be one of the last times
675. 35:12to get him live for a while.
676. 35:14And there will be open mic, Q&A, Charlie Kirk,
677. 35:17the website, alexmafarlin.com slash conversations.
678. 35:21Part of our series, Conversations That Matter.
679. 35:24And Jim, I've got to ask, what is your most recent book?
680. 35:28Truth and Truth are actually, I've got a graphic novel
681. 35:31of my son called Case Files for anyone who likes
682. 35:34big bat comic books.
683. 35:36Hey, graphic novels, young people, man, they read this.
684. 35:39Well, and we try to do one that would actually have
685. 35:41a kind of an embedded message that's an apology,
686. 35:43Christian apologetics message,
687. 35:44but it really is a serial killer on the loose,
688. 35:47kind of a comic book.
689. 35:47So I hope you guys enjoy it.
690. 35:50Your website is...
691. 35:51ColdcaseChristianity.com.
692. 35:53ColdcaseChristianity.com.
693. 35:55For the person is maybe just kind of dipping their tent
694. 35:58with the water of apologetics.
695. 36:00Which of your books or books do you recommend?
696. 36:03Well, the book that kind of started the holding for us
697. 36:05was called Case Christianity, and I think that's still an accessible book. We've re-illustrated
698. 36:09it and it's got over 300 illustrations, so I think it's pretty quick. It's a deep dive
699. 36:15that is accessible, it's put that way for people who are interested in investing in the New
700. 36:19Testament.
701. 36:20It's spelled just like it sounds cold.
702. 36:22We're going to go to some calls when we start in, I believe it's Kentucky, Brandon in Kentucky.
703. 36:31Brandon, thanks for holding welcome to the program.
704. 36:34Hey, thank you very much.
705. 36:37What caught my ear especially is that when you said about reading the Bible, forensically,
706. 36:42exact, I love that term about reading God's Word and digging into it and getting gold.
707. 36:49I like to call it like getting the gold nuggets of God's Word.
708. 36:52And I was talking about Christ, people who think that Christ never claimed that He was
709. 37:01God.
710. 37:02One of them that had caught my attention before and I'd read over before and and I never really thought about it
711. 37:09but the Matthew chapter
712. 37:1219 verse 16
713. 37:15When Christ addressed the rich young young ruler and
714. 37:21The rich young ruler said you know
715. 37:25Caught in good teacher
716. 37:27Mm-hmm, and Christ, but why do you call me good? No one is good but one
717. 37:32that is God and it hit me and I can just see the Lord looking at him and saying
718. 37:39why do you call me good? No one is good but God and it's almost like the Lord
719. 37:46Jesus gave that rich young ruler just a pause for a moment and like think about
720. 37:53what you just called me. Good teacher no one is good but God do you do you
721. 38:00really understand, think about what you just called me because there's no one good but God.
722. 38:06Brandon, let me jump in on this. Let me throw it to Jim. Okay, this is a fascinating passage.
723. 38:12Matthew 19, 16, 17. Okay, good master. And Jesus says, why do you call me good? There's no one good
724. 38:19but God. Jim, what was the Lord trying to get across there? Well, there's a couple of ways this
725. 38:25has kind of been traditionally interpreted. I favor one probably more than the other. There
726. 38:31is a sense in which the question is good teacher. What good deed must I do to have eternal life?
727. 38:38Now, why is he calling him a good teacher? And then why does Jesus then say, well, there's
728. 38:42only one who is good or there's only God is good? Well, there's almost a sense, I think,
729. 38:47in which Jesus knows that if you who would know the path to eternal life better than the
730. 38:53the God of eternal life. And it's almost like you're saying, when you're coming to me with
731. 38:58this question, it almost seems as though you already know the answer, because do you know
732. 39:03who you are talking to? And the insightful way that Jesus responds to me is even bigger,
733. 39:12because what Jesus does is he kind of runs down the number of commands, commands of the
734. 39:20commandments that he knows this young man can fulfill. And he leaves out the ones that he
735. 39:26knows he doesn't fulfill. I think that's so fascinating because if I was to come to Jesus
736. 39:31and say, that's the same question, he might list a different number of commandments that
737. 39:37he knows I have no problem with. But he's, he shows Jesus knows he knows that young man
738. 39:43is wrong. That's right. He knows which commandments would be the ones that this young man is keeping
739. 39:48him from eternal life, the ones that he would have to submit to God.
740. 39:52And so of course he mentions this stuff, but he leaves out anything about covetousness.
741. 39:57He leaves out anything that really is in the lane that this young man is struggling with.
742. 40:01What's so fascinating to me is that he's almost saying to this young man, it sounds like you
743. 40:05know who I am, don't you?
744. 40:07And I'm going to show you that you're right because I know where you struggle.
745. 40:12And that to me is fascinating only because I think if it was you or me, he might leave
746. 40:16different commands for us because he knows where you and I struggle. But there
747. 40:21are a couple of classic kind of traditional ways that that sentence has
748. 40:23been interpreted by people over the years. I just like this idea. I think it's
749. 40:27actually sound that he's asking the question almost rhetorically. Why are you
750. 40:32asking me about what is good? But one thing Jesus was not doing, he was not
751. 40:39denying his deity was he? Oh, not at all. As a matter of fact, that's why I think
752. 40:43And he just puts that deity on display when he leaves out the very commands that he knows this
753. 40:49There's no there's no sense in this that Jesus knows this young man
754. 40:53This man comes out of the cold and says he asked this question and Jesus seems to know where this guy is struggling
755. 41:00How does he know that because of course he is the the writer of these laws. He knows all of our hearts
756. 41:05He knows the heart of this young man. So not only does he ask the question back. Why are you calling me good?
757. 41:10You know only one is good.
758. 41:12Only God is good.
759. 41:13Why are you calling me God?
760. 41:15And then he says to him the very thing that only God would know.
761. 41:18So I think there's a sense in which he's kind of asking the question and answering it in the same statement.
762. 41:22The voice you're hearing is Jay Warner Wallace.
763. 41:24We're going to go to Arkansas.
764. 41:26Is it Tera Lisa?
765. 41:28Am I pronouncing your name correct?
766. 41:30Tera Lisa, thanks for holding.
767. 41:32What is your question?
768. 41:33I want you to become a question should we say in?
769. 41:38we sin?
770. 41:39Great.
771. 41:41That's what somebody asked me and I told them.
772. 41:45Okay.
773. 41:46We're going to get the answer.
774. 41:47Once we become a Christian, should we sin?
775. 41:51Should we sin?
776. 41:52Okay.
777. 41:53You mean, you mean asking the question, well, of course we shouldn't sin.
778. 41:57But you asking, once we become a question, are we going to sin again?
779. 42:01Is that what?
780. 42:02Sarah Lisa, like if we're a Christian, do we ever still sin?
781. 42:06Yes.
782. 42:07So here's the formula I like to offer.
783. 42:10It's a classic kind of reform formula.
784. 42:12So what happens is, is a moment in time when you are justified
785. 42:15and you are removed from the penalty of sin.
786. 42:17And then there's that period of time when you're sanctified,
787. 42:18you're removed from the overriding power of sin.
788. 42:21And then there's that moment in time when you are glorified
789. 42:23before God and you are removed from the presence of sin.
790. 42:26Okay.
791. 42:27Well, that first point in which you become a Christian,
792. 42:30that's a door that you walk through.
793. 42:32It just is, it happens the moment you trust Christ
794. 42:35as your Savior, knowing that only He can forgive your sins.
795. 42:37You admit that you're a sinner and you ask Jesus
796. 42:40to pay, that you accept what He paid on the cross
797. 42:43for that price He paid for your sin.
798. 42:45That happens in a moment you decide to accept Christ
799. 42:48as your Savior, that's a door you walk through.
800. 42:51Also the moment you're glorified,
801. 42:53that's also a door you walk through.
802. 42:55It happens the moment you close your eyes
803. 42:56for the last time and you're in the presence of a holy God
804. 42:59and you are removed forever from the presence of sin.
805. 43:01But that thing in the middle called sanctification is not a doorway.
806. 43:06That is a long crooked hallway with lots of ramps and bumps and bruises and crooked corners and sharp corners.
807. 43:15And you're going to take two steps forward and one step back and you're going to bump into things because that's what happens as we walk down the path from justification to glorification.
808. 43:26and that process of sanctification has all kinds of trips and falls and great victories
809. 43:32and sad defeats.
810. 43:34And this is going to happen.
811. 43:35This is what God does to shape us over time.
812. 43:39We often think, well, I should be able to walk through one door and right into the next.
813. 43:42Let me tell you, the only straight hallway you're going to see is in people like the thief on
814. 43:47the cross who in one moment accepts Christ as Savior and the next moment is dead.
815. 43:52His hallway is super short.
816. 43:54then it's pretty straight.
817. 43:56But for those of us who might spend 30 years
818. 43:58post being saved, but not yet glorified,
819. 44:01our hallways are gonna be a lot more crooked,
820. 44:04a lot more dangerous, filled with all kinds of ups and downs.
821. 44:08Are you going to make mistakes in that period?
822. 44:10Paul says it.
823. 44:11He says there's one aspect of the human condition I am certain.
824. 44:16It's that I cannot do what I know I should do
825. 44:19and I continue to do what I know I shouldn't.
826. 44:21Paul, Paul, do you think he was saved
827. 44:23When he wrote that, of course he was.
828. 44:26But he's in the hallway now, the long hallway of sanctification.
829. 44:30And he's experiencing the hallway as it is.
830. 44:33So if you're in that hallway and you're wondering,
831. 44:36why, why do I say, I shouldn't sin, should I?
832. 44:39That just demonstrates you're already in the hallway.
833. 44:41You've already walked through the first door.
834. 44:43The Spirit of God now is in that tug of war
835. 44:46with your natural spirit trying to guide you down the hallway.
836. 44:50The fact that you're concerned about it
837. 44:52is demonstrating the fact that the Spirit of God
838. 44:54has now got the hands on the wheel,
839. 44:56then he's trying to tell you, let go, let me drive this.
840. 45:00And that's what the hallway does to us.
841. 45:02So I would say just know that this is a life of mistakes,
842. 45:06of ups and downs, and that's exactly how it was designed to be.
843. 45:09Let's go to Oklahoma, Dorothy and Oklahoma.
844. 45:12Thanks for holding welcome to our conversation
845. 45:14with Jay Warner Wallace.
846. 45:17Thank you for taking my call.
847. 45:20this is in regards to the biblical Sabbath. I have read the Bible, Genesis chapter 2, starting
848. 45:29at verse 2, the Bible says that on the seventh day God ended His work, which He had made,
849. 45:36and He rested on the seventh day from all the work which He had made, and God blessed the seventh
850. 45:41day and sanctified, because that ended He had rested from all His work which He had created and made,
851. 45:48and then I go over to the Ten Commandments and in Exodus 20 verses 8-3-11 he tells us to remember
852. 45:59the Sabbath to keep it holy and six days which you'll work and do all thy work and after seventh day
853. 46:05is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. So God doesn't... And you're wondering like why do we worship on
854. 46:11Sunday? Yeah God doesn't have two Sabbaths so you know rise there's such confusion
855. 46:17Let me jump in, Dorothy, thank you.
856. 46:20This is a great question.
857. 46:22And let me say that we don't say that Sunday is the Sabbath day.
858. 46:27Now, like in Mark 16, too, and I'll throw it to Jim here in a second,
859. 46:30because it's very early in the morning on the first day of the week.
860. 46:34Do you know the earliest Christians and one of the things that we talk about
861. 46:39are some of the accounts of people that were not friends of the church,
862. 46:45like there was a Pliny that was a Roman writer and he says early on Sunday, the
863. 46:52first day of the week the Christians get up before daybreak to sing hymns to
864. 46:57Christ as God. So Jim, we get this question a lot. We're not saying that the Sabbath
865. 47:03was changed or anything like that. We're saying that really from within weeks
866. 47:08after the cross Christians were worshiping on Sunday because that was
867. 47:13resurrection day wasn't it? Right. The earliest record we have of Christians who
868. 47:18practiced and who met regularly after the ascension of Jesus is recorded in the
869. 47:24book of Acts. But you also see it in scripture. The day of the resurrection,
870. 47:29the first day of the week is the day of the week that the earliest Christians
871. 47:32met. Now it's interesting to me because that is in God's Word. And so there's a
872. 47:38sense in which I see no directive in God's Word that tells the earliest
873. 47:43Christians. No, no, no, no, no, stop doing that. Get back on Saturday. Saturday is the day of worship.
874. 47:47Saturday is the day we must leave it holy for the Lord. Instead, what we're simply doing as Christians
875. 47:52is following the earliest habits and the same way we would look at anything in the book of Acts and say,
876. 47:57yeah, if they did it there, we should take that seriously. We should do it also. And so you'll see
877. 48:01that the earliest Christians having contact with the eyewitnesses were meeting on the first day of the
878. 48:08week. And I think because that wasn't scolded out of them by the earliest eye
879. 48:12witnesses of the resurrection, that's good enough for me. I will also follow
880. 48:16that same pattern. We're going to try to get another call in. This is Mary in
881. 48:21Louisiana. Mary, thanks for listening. Yeah, can you hear me? We can. Yes. Thank
882. 48:27you. I just wanted to make a comment because I heard you earlier talk about
883. 48:32investigation discovery. And I think you had used to with a detective or
884. 48:36whatever. But yes. And second
885. 48:39Corinthians is said be aware of
886. 48:41Satan devices. What I wanted to
887. 48:44say is I watch those shows
888. 48:46the cold case and all of that.
889. 48:47And I'm going like what women
890. 48:49need to know and men too, that
891. 48:52you got to be aware. You need
892. 48:53to forgive me. We're almost out
893. 48:55of time. Forgive me. I'm just
894. 48:57out of time. It says be aware of
895. 48:59Satan's devices. Hey, you know,
896. 49:01let me just say this. Even though
897. 49:02we might get saved, we've come to
898. 49:04Christ, the devil doesn't
899. 49:05necessarily just leave the saloon does.
900. 49:07No, as a matter of fact, when you're just on the precipice
901. 49:09of some of the biggest advances you're gonna make
902. 49:11in your faith walk, that is typically
903. 49:12when you're going to be assaulted by the wise
904. 49:15and kind of wily devices of Satan.
905. 49:18So I've always aware when I'm getting ready
906. 49:20to do something like a radio show like this,
907. 49:21probably before I sit down to do it,
908. 49:23I'm gonna be, something's gonna happen
909. 49:25because God, Satan does not want us to do
910. 49:27what grows the kingdom of God.
911. 49:28Well, thanks for listening folks.
912. 49:30God bless you and tell somebody about Jesus.
913. 49:32Thanks, Jim Wallace.
914. 49:33Thank you.
915. 49:38The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
916. 49:43Family Association or American Family Radio.