The Hamilton Corner

January 24, 2025 · 48:18

("Best-of" Edition from 1/10) God used Billy Carson to introduce us to Wes Huff.

Culture & Media

Show notes

0:00 - 15:00. 1 Peter 3:13-16 (ESV). “Always be ready” includes “gentleness and respect.” 15:00 - 31:00. God used Billy Carson to introduce us to Wes Huff. 31:00 - 48:00. God is still at work. or call: 800-326-4543 To donate call : 877-616-2396 Video Clip Links Wes Huff vs. Billy Carson debate Joe Rogan - Wesley Huff

Phone lines mentioned

Full transcript Auto-generated · 8,385 words

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

  1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
  2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
  3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
  5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
  6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
  7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
  8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
  9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
  10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
  11. 0:32Good evening, everyone.
  12. 0:34Welcome to the Hamilton Corner.
  13. 0:36My name is Abraham Hamilton III.
  14. 0:39Joined by produce extraordinaire often imitate
  15. 0:42and never duplicated the real Jay Mac y'all know what it is.
  16. 0:45You definitely want to buckle up for this one.
  17. 0:49This is the program that I alluded to Wednesday
  18. 0:52that I planned to do.
  19. 0:55I'm quite excited about it for a host of reasons,
  20. 0:58but the primary reason it is just further evidence
  21. 1:03of exactly what I say Wednesday,
  22. 1:05that God is God and we are not.
  23. 1:07While there are all kinds of crazy things going on
  24. 1:10in the world, even though I'm just reading,
  25. 1:12you know, on his way out the door,
  26. 1:13the weekend that burned his Mr. Ice Cream Man, Robinette.
  27. 1:17Another 500 million for Ukraine, okay, okay.
  28. 1:22Trying to make things even more difficult.
  29. 1:25But even with all of these things that are transpiring,
  30. 1:28God is still on the throne and God is still doing amazing things.
  31. 1:33But before we get into that, thank you for tuning in to the program,
  32. 1:36each and every one of you, no matter how you are tuning in, the live radio listeners,
  33. 1:40the live video streamers, the television show watchers, shout out to the NRB TV audience,
  34. 1:47the podcast listeners, thank you all for tuning in to the program.
  35. 1:51Make sure you share the show with your friends and loved ones and family members.
  36. 1:55If you want to help this program, you want to help out with its dissemination, make sure
  37. 2:02that your friends, your family, your loved ones know about it.
  38. 2:05And that will help spread the word we're available everywhere.
  39. 2:10You can listen to podcasts.
  40. 2:12If your podcasts or everywhere podcasts are available, just look for the Hamilton Corner
  41. 2:17and you will find us there.
  42. 2:19At this very moment, many of you, if not most of you are making your, are making your transition
  43. 2:24from your part time jobs where you generate an income
  44. 2:26to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
  45. 2:29And as you do so, I want to remind you to do so
  46. 2:31with intentionality, understanding the primacy
  47. 2:34that God places on the family.
  48. 2:38And I continue to stress that
  49. 2:40because family is the first human institution
  50. 2:43that God established with marriage at the fulcrum
  51. 2:46of the familial unit.
  52. 2:47The family is central, central, not peripheral,
  53. 2:50central to God's plan for his kingdom.
  54. 2:54He builds his kingdom, establishes his kingdom
  55. 2:57in the hearts and minds of people.
  56. 3:01He dispatches his ambassadors,
  57. 3:03very similar to the concept of a foreign ambassador.
  58. 3:07You and a US ambassador functions for one primary purpose
  59. 3:11to introduce foreign nations to the culture,
  60. 3:14the makeup, the construction, if you will, of our nation.
  61. 3:19This is why US embassies around the world are recognized as sovereign US territory, because
  62. 3:25though it may be in an alienation, is a US embassy.
  63. 3:29Similarly, though we are in this world, we are not of it.
  64. 3:33Jesus said that very, very plainly.
  65. 3:36We are in the world.
  66. 3:37God has placed us in the world intentionally to be his ambassadors, although we are not of
  67. 3:44the world.
  68. 3:45exist in the world to introduce those in the world to our homeland.
  69. 3:52And by God's grace we have the blessed hope of enjoying eternity in the tangible presence
  70. 3:59of our Lord and King, where though as the Apostle Paul explained we see him through a glass dimly
  71. 4:06darkly now.
  72. 4:07The time is coming where we will behold him with unveiled face, with unveiled face and
  73. 4:13we are absolutely looking forward to that time period,
  74. 4:16as well as being able to spend time,
  75. 4:18spend eternity, rather, with all of the believers
  76. 4:21throughout human history.
  77. 4:22This is what we have to look forward to.
  78. 4:25So as you are making your transition
  79. 4:26from your part-time job to your full-time jobs,
  80. 4:29one of the first things you wanna do is make sure
  81. 4:31that your family members are also members
  82. 4:33of our eternal family, that we are commissioned
  83. 4:37as disciples to be disciple makers.
  84. 4:40The great commission is just that
  85. 4:42to make disciples and we start that right in our own homes.
  86. 4:45Refuse to sacrifice your homes in an effort
  87. 4:49to win the world because that is also
  88. 4:54what I'm endeavoring to do with my life.
  89. 4:57Thank you again for tuning in to the program.
  90. 4:58We'll begin the show as is our custom
  91. 5:01with the word of God.
  92. 5:02We're gonna go to 1 Peter chapter three,
  93. 5:04a very, very, very familiar passage of scripture.
  94. 5:09We're gonna talk about the scripture
  95. 5:10And then I want to give you some examples that I believe
  96. 5:14are good examples of this scripture being put into practice.
  97. 5:19All right, first Peter chapter three,
  98. 5:20verses 13 through, what did I say, 13 through 16?
  99. 5:26First Peter chapter three, verses 13 through 16.
  100. 5:28And this is what the Lord's word says.
  101. 5:30Now, who is there to harm you
  102. 5:33if you are zealous for what is good?
  103. 5:36But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake,
  104. 5:40you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ
  105. 5:48the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks for a reason
  106. 5:57for the hope that is in you. Yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience
  107. 6:04so that when, not if when you are slandered,
  108. 6:08those who revile your good behavior in Christ
  109. 6:12will be put to shame.
  110. 6:14Now I've talked about this passage of scripture before
  111. 6:17in Peter's Epistle, 1 Peter chapter three,
  112. 6:19prior to getting to the pinnacle apologetic scripture.
  113. 6:26Peter spends a significant amount of time
  114. 6:27talking about cultivating the graces of God in one's life.
  115. 6:33That they are always being ready to give a reason,
  116. 6:35should never outpace the cultivation of a godliness,
  117. 6:40godly character internally,
  118. 6:42which will enable us to obey the remainder of the scripture.
  119. 6:45But within this exact same context,
  120. 6:47Peter talks about the inescapable reality,
  121. 6:49the inescapable reality of Christians suffering
  122. 6:53for righteousness, suffering for the sake of righteousness.
  123. 6:58This is something that many people don't like
  124. 7:00to converse about, but the fact is believers are called
  125. 7:04to suffer well.
  126. 7:06will all face suffering of various sorts.
  127. 7:08The only variables are the types of suffering,
  128. 7:11the intensity of suffering, but we all face it.
  129. 7:13And that is a part of the Christian life.
  130. 7:18While Peter makes the observation
  131. 7:20about the reality of suffering for righteousness sake,
  132. 7:22he then says, have no fear of them.
  133. 7:25Is it an interesting while Peter brings up
  134. 7:27the notion of suffering,
  135. 7:28he also immediately turns around and says,
  136. 7:32but the reality of suffering should not provoke fear
  137. 7:36in the life or in the heart of the believer.
  138. 7:41He continues on going to verse 15,
  139. 7:43which corresponds with and affirms
  140. 7:47the things that was spoken before you got to verse 13
  141. 7:49about cultivating a personal devotion to the Lord.
  142. 7:52Verse 15, Peter says, but in your hearts, in your hearts,
  143. 7:56before you ever get to present in Christ to anybody else,
  144. 7:59before you ever getting, get to engaging anybody else,
  145. 8:02we must consistently maintain a posture of reverence
  146. 8:07for Christ in our own hearts that provokes the appropriate response of humility and a gentleness
  147. 8:14because we consider the great depths to which Christ has saved us from, which compels us
  148. 8:25to honor Christ the Lord as holy, he alone having a seity.
  149. 8:31And because of this honor in Christ the Lord is holy, we are then instructed, and this is
  150. 8:36where it's one of more popular portions of the scripture, to always be prepared to make a defense.
  151. 8:42The phrase make a defense is derived from the Greek word apologia, which is where the English term
  152. 8:47apologetics comes from, which simply means making a reasoned defense and articulation for why we believe
  153. 8:56what we believe. Every believer, I say this all the time, every single believer is called to be a
  154. 9:01theologian. All right, notice I didn't say an
  155. 9:03academician. An academic. Every believer is
  156. 9:07called to be a theologian. The root word for
  157. 9:10theologian is theos. The Greek word for God.
  158. 9:14Logos learned mind. Theologian simply means a
  159. 9:18student or learner of God. Every believer is
  160. 9:20called to be that. Whether you are an
  161. 9:22academic or not, you are called to be a
  162. 9:24theologian. You must know, I must know why I
  163. 9:28believe, I must know what I believe. You
  164. 9:31You must know what you believe.
  165. 9:32You must know why you believe it.
  166. 9:33I must know why I believe it.
  167. 9:36And I must be able to reasonably communicate why I believe what I believe, just as you are
  168. 9:41required to be able to reasonably communicate why you believe what you believe.
  169. 9:49In many ways, because we haven't faced the type of overt hostility and persecution in
  170. 9:53our nation, many believers in our nation have become lazy.
  171. 9:56They will say we believe, but we don't know why we believe.
  172. 10:00Let alone what we believe.
  173. 10:02of the foundational questions of the faith stump many professing believers in our nation.
  174. 10:08Which many instances have led to a rejection of the foundations of the faith, simply because we
  175. 10:14don't know why we believe it nor what we believe about it. But every believer, every believer in
  176. 10:19every generation is called by God to always be prepared to give a reason for what, for the hope
  177. 10:26that you have, which means every believer must know what we believe, every believer must know why we
  178. 10:30we believe it and we must be able to reasonably communicate that to anyone
  179. 10:36scripture says to anyone asks you some have misunderstood that text to me that
  180. 10:41we just sit around waiting for the grasshopper the cricket sounds to take root
  181. 10:47and we said I never said the gospel nobody asked me why I believe what I believe
  182. 10:50no what Peter is explaining when you see the entirety of the chapter that our
  183. 10:55lives should be lived in such a way with such a quality that it provokes inquiry
  184. 10:59It provokes inquiry.
  185. 11:02Why are you so hope-filled when we see all of this bad news happening in different places?
  186. 11:06Why are you committed to your wife, though you have in the world adultery is standard fair?
  187. 11:12Why do you use language that you don't use profane language?
  188. 11:16Why do you make the choices you make concerning what you consume?
  189. 11:18Why your entertainment choices this?
  190. 11:20Why do you read your children in this way?
  191. 11:21These are questions that are presented when there's a peculiarity on display through the
  192. 11:26lifestyle.
  193. 11:27is explaining to always be ready to give a reason for the hope that you have to any
  194. 11:33who asks you give a reason for the hope that is in you but look at this part and
  195. 11:39this is a part of the component that I think people don't realize is also
  196. 11:43included in the always being ready. It's not only always be ready to give a
  197. 11:49reason for the hope that you have but always be ready to give a reason for the
  198. 11:53hope that is in you and do it with gentleness and respect. The always be
  199. 11:58He already also applies to the gentleness and respect.
  200. 12:03There is, and let me say this very plainly,
  201. 12:05as we navigate what we believe in understanding
  202. 12:10why we believe it.
  203. 12:13It provokes a humility.
  204. 12:15It provokes an awe and a reverence for God
  205. 12:18that militates towards the gentleness.
  206. 12:21Because when you consider that you didn't seek God,
  207. 12:24it was God who sought you.
  208. 12:27That if the Lord had not drawn you,
  209. 12:29would not know him. Had the Lord not made himself accessible, you would not have
  210. 12:34accessed him. So it provokes a gentleness because it causes you to recognize man.
  211. 12:40But for the grace of God, I would be on the same highway to get Henna. So the
  212. 12:49gentleness comes from a vertical, a vertically imposed humility, similar to Isaiah
  213. 12:57Isaiah chapter 6, that I saw the Lord and Isaiah's response,
  214. 13:02whoa, isn't me?
  215. 13:04I'm a man of unclean lips.
  216. 13:07The always be ready doesn't only apply to giving a reason
  217. 13:10for the hope that you have, the always being ready also applies
  218. 13:13to the gentleness and the respect.
  219. 13:18I often say we say this in our local church,
  220. 13:20I say this in our home, that the call of the believer
  221. 13:23is not simply to win arguments.
  222. 13:25The call of the believer is to win brothers and sisters.
  223. 13:30The brother of the sister is far more important to me than winning an argument.
  224. 13:33Sometimes the impediment to winning the brother or sister, when I'm talking about
  225. 13:38his winning their hearts and it is Christ is the one who's the winner.
  226. 13:42It's not us.
  227. 13:44There's no need to have an ego involved.
  228. 13:47Often the impediment is a callousness, a tangible disrespect that is evident in our
  229. 13:55mechanism of communication.
  230. 13:59I learned a long time ago what comes from the heart goes to the heart.
  231. 14:02When you show people you care, it causes them to be receptive for what you know.
  232. 14:11But if your only interest is revealing what you know with no care whatsoever, that's evident in our communication.
  233. 14:18So the always being ready applies to the gentleness and respect.
  234. 14:23Two.
  235. 14:24The result, verse 16, having a good conscience.
  236. 14:28So that when you're slandered, not if, because the slandered's gonna happen.
  237. 14:33When you slandered, the slanderers would be lying about you.
  238. 14:36When you're slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ,
  239. 14:41let me put the shame because your character outpaces your proclamations.
  240. 14:47When that is the case, it creates an environment to where evangelical and
  241. 14:54apologetic presentation to penetrate the heart of the recipient.
  242. 14:58Maybe you've heard that AFA has a streaming platform, AFA Stream.
  243. 15:04Maybe you've just not thought about it.
  244. 15:06Maybe you're happy with the streaming platforms you already have.
  245. 15:10Would you consider giving AFA Stream a chance?
  246. 15:13What is on AFA Stream?
  247. 15:15Documentaries, educational material, some entertainment.
  248. 15:18If you want some spiritual inspiration,
  249. 15:21if you want to grow more in Jesus,
  250. 15:23then consider giving us a visit at AFA Stream on Roku
  251. 15:26or at stream.afa.net.
  252. 15:41to the Hamilton corner. Oh boy. I'm excited about this. And I believe this is a great example
  253. 15:46of what I was just talking about. So I had the opportunity, thanks to my wife, frankly, she
  254. 15:54put this on my radar initially, then I dove, I dove deeply into it to get a bit more understanding.
  255. 16:01I came across this. It was a debate, but wasn't a formal debate with like opening statements
  256. 16:07and a moderator and kind of thing. It was a debate of people with diverging perspectives.
  257. 16:12but it was conducted in a conversational manner.
  258. 16:15What I'm talking about is a debate between
  259. 16:18a Christian brother from Canada,
  260. 16:21I believe he's currently enrolled in the PhD program
  261. 16:24at the University of Toronto.
  262. 16:26He is an apologist, a defender of the faith.
  263. 16:29He works with the Ministry Apologetics Canada,
  264. 16:34I believe it is, and he was invited by a gentleman
  265. 16:37by the name of Mark Menard, if I remember that correctly,
  266. 16:39to have a conversational debate
  267. 16:43with a gentleman by the name of Billy Carson.
  268. 16:45Now, I didn't know who Billy Carson was before this,
  269. 16:49but after watching the debate, the full unedited debate
  270. 16:54that you can find for yourself,
  271. 16:55I ended up learning that Billy Carson
  272. 16:57is a pretty popular dude.
  273. 16:59He has this whole business called Forbidden Knowledge.
  274. 17:03He has all kind of YouTube videos,
  275. 17:05speaks all around the world,
  276. 17:06got an all kind of awards. And because of his work, he was invited on to the Joe Rogan podcast,
  277. 17:13which if you're not aware Joe Rogan's podcast is probably the largest podcast platform in the
  278. 17:17country. Alright, now his audience is huge. I mean, the largest podcast audience in the country.
  279. 17:25And it's it was quite interesting, Billy Carson fancied himself. And I said,
  280. 17:30fancied in the past tense because I would just tell you play, Leah, I'll get to the end on this part.
  281. 17:34After this tangle with Wes, you can put a headstone and an epitaph on Billy Carson's career
  282. 17:42as it was prior to his tangle with Wes.
  283. 17:46His business is called Forbidden Knowledge.
  284. 17:50Forbidden Knowledge, you know, I think the X-Files music in the background, maybe Jeff will throw
  285. 17:55some X-Files music on now, no.
  286. 17:58But the Forbidden Knowledge really Carson fancied himself an expert in ancient civilizations
  287. 18:04and the biblical text and they're all kind of things that, you know, the church wants
  288. 18:11to hide from us.
  289. 18:12This knowledge is forbidden.
  290. 18:14So interesting, man.
  291. 18:16And so he agreed, the host of this podcast is Mark Minard, who's actually a personal friend
  292. 18:22of Billy's.
  293. 18:23They actually lived, lived in the same neighborhood in Florida.
  294. 18:27And apparently Billy had been complaining to Mark Minard, who represents himself as a Christian
  295. 18:32And that he can't find anybody who's willing to debate him.
  296. 18:34So by setting this thing up with West, he thought he was given Billy what he wanted.
  297. 18:40At the end of results, I don't think Billy wanted this smoke.
  298. 18:44He wasn't ready for this.
  299. 18:45And I really don't think Billy had done his research on who West was, but West certainly
  300. 18:50had done research on who Billy is.
  301. 18:52And I'll just tell you plainly, guys, and I'm going to give you examples of this as gracious
  302. 18:58and respectful and gentle as I can say, Westmaup the Florida, oh boy.
  303. 19:03I mean, there was a barbecue and on the grill was Rose Carson.
  304. 19:08I'm telling you, it was it was it.
  305. 19:11He dismantled this man, but he did so with a gentleness and a clarity that is irrefutable.
  306. 19:19And I want to give you some examples of this.
  307. 19:21And so among the things Billy Carson represents himself to be, he would not say he's an atheist.
  308. 19:25He says he believes in God, but he does not believe in God as if you've
  309. 19:30revealed himself in the Bible.
  310. 19:31He believes in all kinds of things, aliens and he is attempting to assert that the Bible
  311. 19:37was copied from things like the Epic of Gilgamesh and other things.
  312. 19:41And it's just flat wrong, but the monsterly wrong things.
  313. 19:44In which you'll see in a few moments, I'm just going to just do enough to give you a snippet
  314. 19:47of what West did to Billy.
  315. 19:51to highlight that all of your foundations, Mr. Carson, are flawed.
  316. 19:57So I'll start this first.
  317. 20:00Billy Carson went through a line of argument
  318. 20:05where he suggested that Jesus was never resurrected.
  319. 20:11Okay, Jesus was never resurrected, which is false.
  320. 20:16But in the process of doing so,
  321. 20:18Wes asks him, well, what are you basing that on?
  322. 20:20and Billy says he's basing it on the Sinai Bible,
  323. 20:24because the Sinai Bible according to Billy
  324. 20:28contradicts the assertion that Jesus was resurrected.
  325. 20:31So I'm gonna introduce that to you,
  326. 20:33and then I'm gonna show you how West took Old Billy to school.
  327. 20:36Listen to and watch clip number one go.
  328. 20:39You seem to have investigated to a certain degree,
  329. 20:44some of these facts.
  330. 20:46Do you mind if I ask a clarifying question?
  331. 20:47When you say the Sinai Bible, what are you referring to specifically?
  332. 20:55It's the biblical text that was written and made it into a, you can actually look it up
  333. 20:59on Amazon.
  334. 21:00It's a Bible called, I have a version at home.
  335. 21:02It's called the Sinai Bible, right from Mount Sinai, I'm assuming it's the mountain that
  336. 21:07they're referencing there.
  337. 21:09But they put together their own version of the biblical text prior to the King James
  338. 21:14Version being put out.
  339. 21:17Sure.
  340. 21:18So when you refer to the Sinai Bible, would you be referring to Codex Sinaiticus?
  341. 21:25Like the Codex that comes.
  342. 21:27Okay.
  343. 21:28That's why I was trying to get some clarification because so you can actually go and see Codex
  344. 21:34Sinaiticus is at the British Library.
  345. 21:37So you can go and see it.
  346. 21:38It's on display.
  347. 21:40And the British Library has actually digitized the entire manuscript.
  348. 21:42All right.
  349. 21:43Already you can tell.
  350. 21:45You know, Billy's referring to Sinai Bible.
  351. 21:47And notice, West doesn't come off the top rope,
  352. 21:50like a WWE wrestler.
  353. 21:52He asks clarifying questions.
  354. 21:54Now I wanna make sure I understand what you're talking about.
  355. 21:56A part of our responsibility when we're engaging with people
  356. 22:00is that we appropriately address our opponent's positions.
  357. 22:04We don't want to create straw men, okay,
  358. 22:09and refute something that's not being presented.
  359. 22:10We need to make sure that we are conversing
  360. 22:13on the same plane, all right?
  361. 22:16So Wes asked this clarifying question
  362. 22:21because he's supposed to go in.
  363. 22:23I'm telling you, join me and I should say on your screen,
  364. 22:26on your right, that was Wes Huff.
  365. 22:28In the middle was the host of this particular podcast, Mark Menard.
  366. 22:31And on the left was Billy Carson. All right.
  367. 22:35Wes is supposed to take old Billy Boy to school.
  368. 22:38Listen to a watch, clip two, go.
  369. 22:41So I work with manuscripts in my linguistic work.
  370. 22:45I'm an expert on early Christian scribal culture and particularly in Greek and Coptic manuscripts.
  371. 22:51I actually have, I have a facsimile, so I have a photocopy that was done by the British Library of
  372. 22:58Codex Sinaiticus that I work with in my office. So I have a cure. And the only reason I ask for
  373. 23:05clarification is because I want to make sure that what I'm addressing is actually what you mean,
  374. 23:10and not addressing something else.
  375. 23:13Because the Codex Sinaiticus in particular
  376. 23:17is just a Greek, it's a fourth century Greek manuscript.
  377. 23:22It comes from approximately between 325 and a 350 AD.
  378. 23:28And its text of the gospels reads almost identical
  379. 23:32to the modern Greek texts that we develop translations from.
  380. 23:37So my curiosity is just simply in kind of exploring
  381. 23:42when you say that it denies the crucifixion
  382. 23:44or that the crucifixion isn't there.
  383. 23:46I mean, I can go on right now, Codex Sinaiticus,
  384. 23:49and I can look up the end of, say, Matthew 27,
  385. 23:56where it has Jesus being crucified,
  386. 23:58and that's in Codex Sinaiticus, or the John 19,
  387. 24:05or any of the other ones.
  388. 24:06So I think my confusion is that it doesn't read any differently.
  389. 24:15So actually, are you able to pull up a website
  390. 24:19with the viewers or listeners or whatever,
  391. 24:21be able to see that?
  392. 24:22Right now, let me try to write the version that I'm looking.
  393. 24:25I'm sorry, I'm not making a picture.
  394. 24:28Obviously, who I have, let me leave it.
  395. 24:29Oh, let me leave it, let me leave it, let me leave it.
  396. 24:32We'll be able to cast them and call the bird,
  397. 24:33and make it whole, whole, whole, whole, whole, whole
  398. 24:34of us, let me leave it, let me leave it.
  399. 24:35Let me leave it, let me leave it.
  400. 24:36Give me a second, let me leave it.
  401. 24:37Let me make sure I got the right thing.
  402. 24:39For you ask me all these questions, I'm having the wrong thing.
  403. 24:42Billie got the stumbling.
  404. 24:46Oh my goodness.
  405. 24:48It was, it was, it was at this point, at this point Billie knew he had chosen wrongly.
  406. 24:59He gets the fumble, he's in pulling up the phone.
  407. 25:01He's scrolling.
  408. 25:05Then Billie's trying to figure out what he was saying.
  409. 25:08He moves over to say, oh no, no, no, I misspoke.
  410. 25:10See, I said sideline vibe.
  411. 25:12I'm not a sign of my mom.
  412. 25:13You said I'm a sign of what I meant to say was the gospel of Barnabas.
  413. 25:18Now I'll tell you that gospel of Barnabas is an extra biblical text.
  414. 25:22That's not even remotely close to the first and second century.
  415. 25:25Nevertheless, Billy Carson cites it as an authoritative source for why he doesn't believe
  416. 25:31Jesus was resurrected.
  417. 25:33School was already in session.
  418. 25:36West takes Billy to second period.
  419. 25:38Listen to and watch clip number three.
  420. 25:40Go.
  421. 25:41Is that piece?
  422. 25:42I found the text where I was referencing actually, I misquoted it.
  423. 25:45I misquoted it there.
  424. 25:46It's the Gospel of Barnabas.
  425. 25:47Okay.
  426. 25:50Yeah.
  427. 25:51Well, so that's good.
  428. 25:52So let's deal with that too, because I've actually worked with, there are two manuscripts
  429. 25:56at the Gospel of Barnabas.
  430. 25:58The Gospel of Barnabas is a really interesting document because it is a known forgery.
  431. 26:05And so that's why I think it's important to get to these sources.
  432. 26:08So at the very start of the Gospel of Barnabas, which we only have two copies of, one is in
  433. 26:13Italian and one is in Spanish. We see right off the bat that the gospel of
  434. 26:17Barnabas, not to be confused with either the epistle of Barnabas or the acts of
  435. 26:21Barnabas, which are two apocryphal documents from the second century, but the
  436. 26:24gospel of Barnabas in particular, we know it's a forgery because it does things
  437. 26:31like in chapter 92 it says that Jesus spent 40 days on Mount Sinai and then he
  438. 26:39came to the Jordan River and he walked to Jerusalem,
  439. 26:43but Mount Sinai is more than a week's journey
  440. 26:45away from Jerusalem, and neither Mount Sinai nor Jerusalem
  441. 26:49are close to the Jordan River.
  442. 26:50So never mind, they're not being a root
  443. 26:53from the Jordan River to like around Mount Sinai
  444. 26:57or going to Jerusalem, but there are internal problems
  445. 27:02with the Gospel of Barnabas, which indicate that it shows
  446. 27:05no actual indication of evidence of coming from or even having knowledge of first century Jewish
  447. 27:13understanding. It actually says Jesus is the Christ but not the Messiah, which indicates
  448. 27:18that whoever the author is, he didn't know that those were the same words. And I think
  449. 27:22a bigger problem is that the gospel of Barnabas actually paraphrases Dante's Inferno, which
  450. 27:29was written in 1314. So there's a lot of internal evidences that disqualify the gospel of Barnabas.
  451. 27:37Never mind the fact that we don't have any evidence of it prior to the 14th century and
  452. 27:42none in any other language other than Middle-aged Italian and Spanish, but the internal content
  453. 27:50of the gospel of Barnabas disqualifies it from being ancient. And then the fact that it's
  454. 27:54doing things like paraphrasing Dante, or it also refers to a rule of the time of Jubilee,
  455. 28:01which was changed in the Middle Ages from what it was in the biblical year of Jubilee.
  456. 28:07And it goes with the Middle Ages concept, not the ancient concept.
  457. 28:11Now, let me add, and I described Wes a bit.
  458. 28:20So he's an apologist, a defender of the faith.
  459. 28:23His specialty is linguistics and biblical history.
  460. 28:27He's a linguist and a biblical historian.
  461. 28:31Billy, however, is the person who has literally built his career.
  462. 28:37I mean, he has a huge following over a million subscribers on, you know, social media and all these other things,
  463. 28:45but he's built his following based on ignorance.
  464. 28:50He refers to things as forbidden knowledge that many people may not have heard of before.
  465. 28:56And people have misconstrued Billy's confidence
  466. 29:02with competence.
  467. 29:06West gently and respectfully
  468. 29:10dismantles the foundation of Billy Carson's presentations.
  469. 29:15That Billy is confidently asserting
  470. 29:17that he believes what he believes
  471. 29:17because their biblical texts, I say Jesus word,
  472. 29:20wasn't crucified.
  473. 29:21And West is showing, dude,
  474. 29:22you are based on it on something that is a known forgery.
  475. 29:26See, in the world of the linguists
  476. 29:29in the biblical historians, it's common knowledge
  477. 29:32that the purported gospel of Barnabas,
  478. 29:35it's not an ancient text, and it's a known forgery.
  479. 29:39But Billy's whole worldview has been comprised,
  480. 29:41has been constructed upon a lie.
  481. 29:47I believe it was Billy's hubris that led him
  482. 29:51to unpreparedly debate, Wes Huff.
  483. 29:55Wes did a whole video after the fact,
  484. 29:57after this video was recorded,
  485. 30:01Billy threatened his friend, Mark Menard,
  486. 30:04with a cease and desist letter,
  487. 30:05sent Wes up a cease and desist letter.
  488. 30:07Don't put this out, you can't put this out
  489. 30:09because Billy knew he had been swash buckled.
  490. 30:15Because when you are defending the faith
  491. 30:18and standing on truth, you don't have to be afraid
  492. 30:21of the opponents.
  493. 30:22We need to, as a scripture command study,
  494. 30:24to show ourselves approved to know what it is,
  495. 30:27what believe, know what it is that we believe,
  496. 30:31know why we believe it.
  497. 30:35And when time comes, we stand pat on truth.
  498. 30:39Wes explains that he only was given 24 hour notice for this.
  499. 30:44Mark reached out to me saying, yeah,
  500. 30:46can you do this tomorrow?
  501. 30:46He's like, bet I'm there.
  502. 30:50When Wes helped the Billy to recognize
  503. 30:51that he was standing on a faulty foundation,
  504. 30:53he then began to articulate for the viewers
  505. 30:57what he was doing in questioning Billy's methodology.
  506. 31:00Listen to him and watch clip number four.
  507. 31:01Go.
  508. 31:03What I'm getting at is, so I'm a historian
  509. 31:05and I deal with sources.
  510. 31:07So when I'm looking at sources, I want to make sure that I have a methodology by which I approach any type of source.
  511. 31:14So if there is something that denies the crucifixion, I want to make sure that I'm analyzing it and that the methodology by which I analyze it actually reveals that the content can be accurately tied to the event.
  512. 31:27So if we're talking about, say, Codex Sinaiticus, that's in the fourth century.
  513. 31:31Now, that is, I would agree with you, Billy, our oldest copy of the Bible in a sense of
  514. 31:36cover-to-cover, Genesis to Revelation copy of the Bible.
  515. 31:40The problem is that we have individual copies of all four gospels going back hundreds of
  516. 31:46years before Codex Sinaiticus.
  517. 31:49So I have a facsimile behind me of P-66.
  518. 31:54This is a late-second century copy of the Gospel of John.
  519. 31:57I work with this particular manuscript.
  520. 31:59I can just show the screen right here.
  521. 32:01This is an almost complete copy of the Gospel of John, and it has the crucifixion.
  522. 32:08Yeah, so Pyres is just what it's made out of.
  523. 32:15So, I got that from a GPT by the way.
  524. 32:25So you stand under the truth or a lie, that's the question.
  525. 32:28The Hamilton Quarter podcast and one-minute commentaries are available at EFR.net.
  526. 32:40to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
  527. 32:44Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner.
  528. 32:47So are you standing on the truth?
  529. 32:49Are you standing on the lie?
  530. 32:50So West was able to effectively demolish Billy's Foundation.
  531. 32:56And man, you should have saw the comments,
  532. 32:59following this all kind of people.
  533. 33:00Many atheists saying, man, thanks for this video.
  534. 33:03Thanks to you, West.
  535. 33:04I'm no longer an atheist.
  536. 33:05I believe many of the lies that Billy has told for years.
  537. 33:08But after seeing this debate, I've watched hours of your content.
  538. 33:12He has a YouTube channel.
  539. 33:13He has his own website, WestF.com.
  540. 33:15Uh, apologetics, Canada is, is another offering that he works with.
  541. 33:19And now the Lord has drawn me back to himself.
  542. 33:22I mean, it was amazing to witness.
  543. 33:24And I don't mean to cast his versions on Billy Wild.
  544. 33:26I am a Christian.
  545. 33:27So I enjoyed seeing, uh, West's, uh, presentation.
  546. 33:31Uh, I don't mean to denigrate Billy Carson as a person and I truly pray
  547. 33:35that God opens his eyes, especially through his encounter with West to see,
  548. 33:39man, I've been believing lies and comes to the knowledge of the truth.
  549. 33:45But the lies that Billy had been believing and been espousing is what gave him an audience with Joe
  550. 33:51Rogan. Joe Rogan had Billy on his podcast, agreeing with some of the stuff, talking about aliens and
  551. 33:57all these other kinds of things. But it's because of that takedown that I just gave you a sample of
  552. 34:02of Wes doing the do that Joe Rogan invited Wes onto his podcast.
  553. 34:12And man, I'm telling you, God has had work.
  554. 34:16This is the largest platform that's currently available.
  555. 34:23And Wes's appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast will probably be one of,
  556. 34:29if not the most widely disseminated,
  557. 34:32of the faith, of the Christian faith to date in history
  558. 34:40and through one setting.
  559. 34:43So Joe Rogan invites Wes onto his program
  560. 34:50in Wes Huff does with Joe Rogan.
  561. 34:54And then I'm gonna tell you this, Joe Rogan,
  562. 34:55this is the first time I've ever watched
  563. 34:57an entire episode of Joe Rogan's podcast.
  564. 34:58It's pretty long, but in the past,
  565. 35:01he's been kind of snarky and in hostile to Christians,
  566. 35:04It's asserting that it's ridiculous to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that he resurrecting
  567. 35:10things of that nature, but he didn't have that tone this time.
  568. 35:13With West listen to and watch, Joe Rogan ask, Wes Huff, what's the oldest version of the Bible
  569. 35:19that we have access to?
  570. 35:21Clip number five, go.
  571. 35:22What is the oldest version of the Bible or the stories in the Bible?
  572. 35:26Is it the Dead Sea Scrolls or are there older versions?
  573. 35:28The Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest of the Old Testament.
  574. 35:32So when they were discovered, I mean, so they were discovered 1946 to 1957.
  575. 35:38And at that point during their discovery, they pushed back a lot of our previous oldest manuscripts,
  576. 35:44a thousand years, which was a big deal.
  577. 35:49How old are they?
  578. 35:50They're anywhere between the third century BC and the first century BC.
  579. 35:55So it's kind of tricky because the Dead Sea Scrolls are, they're like a library that we
  580. 36:00refer to.
  581. 36:01So it's approximately 970 documents, but it's distributed out between 10,000 and 11,000
  582. 36:11fragments.
  583. 36:12So there's a lot going on there.
  584. 36:15Right?
  585. 36:16So and some of these, I mean, are so fragmentary that you look at them and it's like confetti.
  586. 36:21Because they're, I mean, 3000 years old, but not quite that.
  587. 36:25Like 2000 plus years old animal skins too, right?
  588. 36:28all sorts of things, animal skins, papayri,
  589. 36:31and then some of them are actually done on copper.
  590. 36:33They're like inscribed in copper.
  591. 36:34Oh wow.
  592. 36:36So you have this part of the conversation,
  593. 36:39and man, it's just amazing how it happens.
  594. 36:41West has a great job maintaining the same disposition.
  595. 36:44You watch this video and things, you have the same demeanor,
  596. 36:46there's a gentleness present, there's a respect
  597. 36:49for the people you're talking to.
  598. 36:51And this interview is not as hostile,
  599. 36:55or should I say averse.
  600. 36:56It was clear that Billy Carson was opposed to Wes Huff.
  601. 36:59Joe Rogan didn't have the same hostility towards Wes Huff,
  602. 37:04that Billy demonstrated.
  603. 37:06But they came to a part of the conversation
  604. 37:08when Wes made the comment that among the dissy scrolls,
  605. 37:11we were able to find an intact scroll
  606. 37:14that contains the entirety of the book of Isaiah.
  607. 37:17It's called the Great Isaiah Scroll.
  608. 37:19Joe Rogan could not believe that it was intact,
  609. 37:21but not only that, it pushed the dating back
  610. 37:25of the oldest available copies of biblical text a thousand years.
  611. 37:31It blew Joe Rogan's mind.
  612. 37:32Listen to you in Watts, clip number seven.
  613. 37:34Go.
  614. 37:35So when you say the book of Isaiah is intact,
  615. 37:38how similar is it to the book of Isaiah that's in the Bible?
  616. 37:42So that one is fascinating.
  617. 37:44So this isn't true for all of the Dead Sea Scrolls,
  618. 37:46but when we discovered the Great Isaiah Scroll,
  619. 37:48previous to that, the earliest copy of Isaiah that we had
  620. 37:52was in the Masoretic text, which is in the Middle Ages.
  621. 37:56Whoa.
  622. 37:57Yeah, so it was literally a thousand years.
  623. 37:58We literally pushed back our understanding of Isaiah,
  624. 38:01a thousand years, and the thing that really shocked scholars,
  625. 38:04like I said, this isn't true for all the Dead Sea Scrolls,
  626. 38:06but one of the things that shocked them about Isaiah
  627. 38:09was that it was word for word identical
  628. 38:11to the Masoretic text.
  629. 38:12Word for word.
  630. 38:13Word for word.
  631. 38:14Wow.
  632. 38:14Yeah, so this is the good Isaiah Scrolls.
  633. 38:16So if you go to Israel and you go.
  634. 38:17Is that Papyrus?
  635. 38:20Yes.
  636. 38:22What is vellum? So I should be more specific. So parchment is animal skin.
  637. 38:28Vellum can be used synonymously with the term parchment. Technically parchment is
  638. 38:36like baby animal skin, like calves or lambs. But this is the great Isaiah scroll and you can see
  639. 38:42like they stitch together the parchment because it's so long.
  640. 38:48on.
  641. 38:49Mm hmm.
  642. 38:50Wes Huff is literally taking Joe Rogan this time in the school, but from a different disposition.
  643. 38:57Joe Rogan is learning from Wes Huff.
  644. 39:02And I want to be clear about something I definitely so far what I've learned.
  645. 39:05I don't know Wes Huff personally.
  646. 39:06I may at some point reach out to him and have him on the program.
  647. 39:10I know about his public presentations.
  648. 39:12I do not know him personally.
  649. 39:15Joe Rogan is an unbeliever to date to date.
  650. 39:21podcast and Clueprofanity and I'm just giving you a sample because this podcast episode was over three hours long.
  651. 39:27So I'm certainly not recommending you go and peruse that but what I'm saying is that this is the largest media platform that exists currently and you're having this type of presentation.
  652. 39:41It is the Billy Carson debacle that gave rise to Wes accessing the Jorogan platform.
  653. 39:48platform. And let me just tell you, Wes Huff, he's not a celebrity, he didn't have a huge
  654. 39:53millions and millions and millions of followers before this, but after, which is a lesson in and of
  655. 40:03itself, regardless of the prevalence of your work, man, be faithful with God has planted you,
  656. 40:10because you never know when God may see fit to provide an opportunity for you on a different platform.
  657. 40:17It was the faithfulness that the Hebrew boys displayed in anonymity that set the
  658. 40:21states for them to stand before never going to.
  659. 40:24You don't get to the I won't bow before you're staying in statute if you don't have
  660. 40:28the 10 day table of testing from day after one.
  661. 40:31But let me continue on.
  662. 40:33So this education process continues into where West is able to demonstrate for
  663. 40:42Joe Rogan, something he had done previously concerning a name disambiguation
  664. 40:48to affirm the authority of Scripture, listen to and watch clip number nine.
  665. 40:53Go.
  666. 40:54Yeah, right here.
  667. 40:55It's a particular decades that they're writing.
  668. 40:57A series of scholarly studies has shown that, though Jews were located in many places across
  669. 41:02the Roman Empire, people's names often tended to be geographically located.
  670. 41:07By observing literary and archaeological artifacts, a list of common names can be clearly identified.
  671. 41:13narrowing down the most popular names in places that Jesus lived, traveled, and ministered,
  672. 41:20and by comparing these to the lists from the studies, an interesting correlation can be
  673. 41:24seen. Just as we see today with popular names, a qualifier or nickname is often used. For
  674. 41:31example, notice that when Matthew lists the disciples in his gospel, certain names have
  675. 41:36a qualifier or nickname and others do not. Simon called Peter and Andrew his brother
  676. 41:42and James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the
  677. 41:48tax collector, James the son of Alpheus and Thaddeus, Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot
  678. 41:54who also betrayed him. As we would expect, the most popular names are those that have an
  679. 41:59added description. When we compare the most popular names in Judea and Galilee during the
  680. 42:04first century, with names we see listed in key places in the biblical gospels, we find
  681. 42:10that all the names with qualifiers match with what we'd assume if they were actually written
  682. 42:15in the time and place they claim to be narrating. In contrast, the gospel of Judas only has two
  683. 42:21names that would fit, Jesus and Judas, but contains a host of other characters whose names match not
  684. 42:28with 1st century Judea or Galilee, like the biblical Gospels, but with names that were popular in Egypt
  685. 42:35during the 2nd and 3rd centuries. Consider how difficult it would be for someone living outside
  686. 42:40of the locations and times that these events took place to get the right names with the right
  687. 42:45qualifiers. We have four biblical gospels with four different authors and yet each gets this test of
  688. 42:52naming frequency and attribution right every time. A test and standard that the non-biblical
  689. 42:59gospels simply do not pass. We might use this so we can use this.
  690. 43:06So this is so interesting.
  691. 43:07So this is so, it totally makes sense too.
  692. 43:12Building Joe Rogan's, and I would add most importantly, his audience's capacity to trust
  693. 43:20the scripture, he then goes on to introduce Joe Rogan to this concept of very similar to
  694. 43:24it.
  695. 43:25It's pretty amazing as he once again shows that the Gospel of Barnabas was clearly a forgery
  696. 43:31and it is in fact a known forgery.
  697. 43:34Number 10, go.
  698. 43:35And a lot of this stuff, like the Unimastic Congerants is something that has really only
  699. 43:39been studied to the level that it has within the last like 50 years.
  700. 43:44So we're constantly discovering ways that we can use different types of methodological analysis
  701. 43:49to figure out the historical validity of something.
  702. 43:53So this is, we call it verisimilitude, which is historians are looking for what can show
  703. 44:00us the appearance, likelihood, and probability of something being true.
  704. 44:04And so sometimes documents out themselves as being unreliable and not true because they
  705. 44:11inadvertently include these clues like so the gospel of Barnabas, which I mentioned before,
  706. 44:17which Billy Carson has brought up as an evidence that he sees as denying the crucifixion.
  707. 44:22It talks about Jesus getting in a boat and traveling to Nazareth, but Nazareth is landlocked.
  708. 44:29So that person clearly did not know anything about the geography of like first century
  709. 44:36Israel because you're not getting in a boat to go to Nazareth, right?
  710. 44:41So, but if you're writing, you know, I mean, in the case of the Gospel of Barnabas, you're
  711. 44:45talking about like a thousand plus years later.
  712. 44:48But if you've never been there and you don't understand, it's like, have you ever seen middle
  713. 44:53age paintings of lions?
  714. 44:55Yes.
  715. 44:56Yeah.
  716. 44:57idea what they were.
  717. 44:58So, Wes builds from all of this information, a schooling Rogan, to this portion which I believe
  718. 45:05is the high point of the entire interview when you ask Joe Rogan, now what do you think about
  719. 45:11Jesus?
  720. 45:12Clip number 11, go.
  721. 45:13In all of this, what do you think of Jesus?
  722. 45:15Like in terms of your own like, journeying and trying to find answers to ultimate questions?
  723. 45:23What do you think of the historical person of Jesus?
  724. 45:25So a moral teacher, a good person, Jesus is give us room for that consideration.
  725. 45:32Listen to West continued expounding on this notion, clip 12.
  726. 45:38Go.
  727. 45:39I really appreciate, I mean guys that you're friends with, right?
  728. 45:41Like the Jordan Peterson's and the Douglas Murray's of the world or you know the Tom Holland's,
  729. 45:45not the Spider-Man actor, the historian who talk about the stuff.
  730. 45:49I think I really like the way that Jordan Peterson articulates it, but I think he misses the
  731. 45:53the forest for the trees.
  732. 45:55How so?
  733. 45:56In that he sees Jesus as an archetype.
  734. 45:59And I don't think actually even Jesus
  735. 46:01gives you the opportunity to see him as the archetype.
  736. 46:04Because I've this love-hate relationship
  737. 46:06with all of Peterson's stuff,
  738. 46:08because he seems to get so much right
  739. 46:11where he walks up to the line,
  740. 46:12but he doesn't wanna cross over.
  741. 46:14And is the crossover you think connected
  742. 46:16to a life in academia?
  743. 46:18No, what do you think it is?
  744. 46:20I wonder, and I'd love to talk to him about this,
  745. 46:22Like how do you remedy this issue that,
  746. 46:27because he seems to think that the concept of Jesus
  747. 46:32as an example is more important than the actual flesh and blood
  748. 46:39first century itinerant Jewish preacher
  749. 46:41who was crucified and rose from the dead physically,
  750. 46:44which is the claim of the gospels
  751. 46:45and the rest of the New Testament.
  752. 46:47That's an example for us to look on and live by,
  753. 46:52but I actually think that Jesus condemns moralism
  754. 46:59and ultimately what I see Peterson doing
  755. 47:01is looking at Jesus as a moral example
  756. 47:04and if Jesus is nothing but a moral example,
  757. 47:06then you can save yourself
  758. 47:07and you don't actually need a savior.
  759. 47:10And so I think actually Jesus would have critiqued that
  760. 47:12because Jesus was very against moralism.
  761. 47:15Jesus was very against moralism.
  762. 47:18You heard there just some of the components
  763. 47:20the foundation of frankly, but the gospel is that God the son became flesh, lived a sinless
  764. 47:27life, went to the cross, not for his own sin that he committed, but for the sins of all mankind,
  765. 47:33was crucified and resurrected for us.
  766. 47:36There was another clip I won't have time to get to, but it was amazing how Billy Carson
  767. 47:41gave rise to Joe Rogan and you have one of the most prominent proclamations and defenses of
  768. 47:47the faith that we'll probably see in a generation that came out of that. He goes on to explain
  769. 47:54even further how Jesus critiqued moralism and how the law wasn't meant to be the mechanism
  770. 48:00of salvation but to be a mirror to show us that we need a Savior. Praise God for West
  771. 48:06Hubs, Defense of the Faith.
  772. 48:10The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
  773. 48:14Family Association or American Family Radio.

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