Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Israel Wayne to discuss apologetics and Charles Billingsley covering the Christian music landscape

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:01Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:21God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:27Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:29And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:31Well, good evening America.
12. 0:34Alex McFarland, here.
13. 0:35So honored to be sitting in for Abe Hamilton on the American Family Radio Network.
14. 0:40We've got a great show.
15. 0:41We really do.
16. 0:42I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas.
17. 0:44We're getting close.
18. 0:45And I hope that you're not only planning to spend time with family and loved ones and
19. 0:50friends and maybe share some gifts and eat some good food.
20. 0:55But I hope you're reflecting on the reason for all this, which really is the focal point
21. 0:59of history which is the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
22. 1:03Our nation so desperately needs to recognize Jesus.
23. 1:08By the way, as you may have heard breaking news out of Wisconsin, a school shooting very
24. 1:12tragic, a Christian school, no less, and one of the students there.
25. 1:18We often talk, who did the shooting, and in fact, the presumed shooter is dead at this
26. 1:26point very tragic at least two killed, six critically injured. And you know the Bible says
27. 1:32in 2 Corinthians 3 verse 5 that our power and ability and sufficiency are from God. God
28. 1:39is our source and we need to turn back to the Lord as a nation. We need to restore an
29. 1:45ethic of family and a high view of life, an ethic of life. That's all part of biblical
30. 1:51worldview and right now I'm very honored to talk with a colleague and friend that we've
31. 1:56met through Christian media, Israel, Wayne.
32. 2:00Since 1995, he has been traveling the country speaking about biblical worldview and apologetics.
33. 2:07It's funny, I was on a show earlier today, and the interviewer asked me, what is worldview,
34. 2:12what is apologetics?
35. 2:14And very succinctly, I said it this way, biblical worldview is what we believe as Christians.
36. 2:22Apologetics is why we believe it.
37. 2:24There's a lot more we could say about that, but we're going to talk about this and talk
38. 2:27about really the relationship between a biblical worldview and the blessing of God, revival,
39. 2:35awakening as the church and ultimately the culture is impacted by the reality of God's
40. 2:42Word.
41. 2:43And to weigh in on this with us is author, speaker, Christian leader, Israel Wayne, his
42. 2:49website IsraelWayne.com. But thank you for making time to be with us Israel and we look
43. 2:56forward to getting your insights.
44. 2:59It's always great to talk with you, Alex.
45. 3:02Well good to talk with you as well. IsraelWayne.com, familyrenewal.org. I've got to ask you this
46. 3:10and I'd love to hear this from people like Lee Strobel and J. Warner Wallace and colleagues
47. 3:16like yourself. How did you get into apologetics?
48. 3:22So for me, I grew up in an evangelical church that was kind of typical middle of the road,
49. 3:28Bible teaching, conservative church.
50. 3:31And I was about 17 years old when I discovered apologetics.
51. 3:36And I had never heard it, ever brought up in the church in which I was raised.
52. 3:41I grew up in Sunday school, went to youth group.
53. 3:44We had lots of pizza parties, lots of, you know, roller skating and skiing and sort of
54. 3:51pop and junk food with some quick little devotionals, never heard anything about apologetics.
55. 3:58And I walked into a Christian bookstore when I was 17 and felt strangely drawn to a book
56. 4:04on the shelf, didn't know why, and it ended up being a book by Josh McDowell.
57. 4:09And that book really changed my life.
58. 4:13And from there it opened up a whole door of Christian apologetics.
59. 4:17I kind of went from one author to another after that and I was hooked.
60. 4:22Do you know my story is so similar Israel and I was 21.
61. 4:27I mean I had grown up in church coming out of the Bible belt down south, definitely believed
62. 4:34in God.
63. 4:35Even had a moral compass.
64. 4:37I had a very keen moral compass.
65. 4:41It wasn't until I was 21 in college through a Bible study.
66. 4:46Accepted Christ was, my life was just instantly changed, but all my buddies were not believers.
67. 4:54So I go to a Christian bookstore because I want to somehow in my own awkward, inexperienced
68. 5:00way, I wanted to try to talk to my friends about the gospel.
69. 5:04And I was, to paraphrase John Wesley, who talked about his heart being strangely warmed.
70. 5:11I was strangely drawn to a book by Josh McDowell called Evidence that Demands of Verdict.
71. 5:18I bought more than a carpenter, evidence that demands a verdict, two Josh McDowell books.
72. 5:24And I had to go to work.
73. 5:27So it's 7, 30, 8 o'clock at night.
74. 5:29I get home, finally I have time to open up these two books I had bought that very same afternoon.
75. 5:37The bottom line, about 5 a.m. was when I finally put the books down and went to bed to get an
76. 5:43hour of sleep before going to class.
77. 5:45I'm going to throw it back to you.
78. 5:49It throws my heart because I have such a love for Josh McDowell.
79. 5:53I'm here today because my life was changed by Josh McDowell books, you know, 30 years ago.
80. 6:00And it sounds like you have a somewhat similar story.
81. 6:04Yeah, absolutely.
82. 6:06And I think for the first time I became excited about the fact that I understood that Christianity
83. 6:11was defensible and that it actually made sense that it wasn't a leap in the dark.
84. 6:18And I have to tell you, Alex, I went through a little bit of a crisis after that.
85. 6:24It shook me a little bit to ask myself this question.
86. 6:28Did all of the church leaders, the pastors, the Sunday school teachers, the youth group
87. 6:34leaders, did they all know about Christian apologetics and just refused to tell me?
88. 6:42Or did they not know about it?
89. 6:45And honestly, I struggled with that either direction because as a teenager, an older teenager, I'm
90. 6:50thinking to myself, if they knew about all of this and just withheld it and never introduced
91. 6:55any of this to us as teenagers in the church, why?
92. 6:59Like that feels somewhat malevolent to me and if they didn't know about it and were unaware
93. 7:04of it, well are they qualified to be leading a church?
94. 7:08Now as I got older, I had to go through some forgiveness on that and give grace to people
95. 7:12and realize that it's not really my place to have to sit in judgment of them, but it
96. 7:17It did stir in me a desire to encourage us of the Christian church to do better.
97. 7:23To say that it's not appropriate for us to leave teenagers scratching their heads trying
98. 7:29to figure out if the Bible is true.
99. 7:32And you have heard this as much as I have.
100. 7:34So many times a young person will go to leaders in the church with serious questions and doubts
101. 7:41and they'll just be told, well, you just have to believe.
102. 7:45We don't really have answers.
103. 7:46You just have to believe.
104. 7:49Well, and let me say this folks, I work literally every week of the year with either concerned
105. 7:58families that are trying to win back their kids or young adults that have abandoned the
106. 8:05faith they once affirmed, or even Israel today.
107. 8:10I had the privilege of sharing the gospel with a man in his 70s who had really been a
108. 8:16a skeptic since he was ten years old. True story. I'm not going to go too much into the
109. 8:22details. But the bottom line, he had some serious questions and was told decades and decades
110. 8:29ago, you don't ask those kind of questions, just believe. And, yeah, I understand, look,
111. 8:38we are to turn to Christ and God's arms are open and for a sinner to come to Christ in
112. 8:45any context is truly the grace of God.
113. 8:48But really, I don't think God minds our questions
114. 8:52because Isaiah 118 says, come now, let us reason together.
115. 8:57And Jesus said, in Luke 24, the risen Jesus,
116. 9:03look and see a spirit half not flesh and bones
117. 9:06as you see me have.
118. 9:07Second Peter 116, we have not followed cleverly
119. 9:11devised fables.
120. 9:12So Israel my question, don't you feel like really it's okay when the church says to the
121. 9:19skeptic, hey come with your questions.
122. 9:22Now we're going to give you an answer, a good factual answer, but if you've got spiritual
123. 9:27questions we want to help you and we're here to do that.
124. 9:31I mean that's good ministry isn't it?
125. 9:35It absolutely is.
126. 9:36I had a similar experience a few years ago where I was in England and I was speaking to
127. 9:42group of people mostly in their 70s who had been raised in the Anglican Church there in
128. 9:48England.
129. 9:49And I taught on Christian apologetics and they told me afterwards that they had never
130. 9:54heard any teaching on apologetics in their whole life and had a similar experience.
131. 10:00A 70-something year old man came up to me after a seminar that I conducted there and he said
132. 10:05for the first time in my life I feel like I actually have answers and have the tools
133. 10:11to be able to communicate and articulate that to someone if they ask me.
134. 10:17And that really is what we want to do.
135. 10:18And that is the admonition that we're given in Peter's pistol that we're supposed to be
136. 10:23ready.
137. 10:24We're supposed to be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks us the reason for the hope
138. 10:29that is within us.
139. 10:31And I feel like we have so often as a church just focused so much on evangelism and getting
140. 10:39people to you know accept cries but then we can drop them off and sometimes we'll
141. 10:46even tell them like okay so you're safe now go tell your friends about Jesus but
142. 10:50I often say as soon as you start doing evangelism within 30 seconds you're
143. 10:56gonna end up doing apologetic you're gonna need politics exactly yeah you
144. 11:01you can't avoid it right as soon as you tell someone anything about the Bible
145. 11:06when they come back and say, well, I don't believe the Bible is the word of God.
146. 11:10What makes you think it is?
147. 11:11Well, now you're doing apologetics.
148. 11:13You just shifted from evangelism to apologetics.
149. 11:15And so that's why it's so important for all of us, even non-scholars, to learn at least
150. 11:20the basic rudimentary principles.
151. 11:23So if you would, I gave a little bit of my insight a few moments ago.
152. 11:28Give me your definition of worldview and your definition of apologetics.
153. 11:34entrass the two if you would worldview versus apologetics
154. 11:40well interesting out that i have
155. 11:41somewhat recently
156. 11:43uh... shifted my definition
157. 11:45of okay
158. 11:46so and so you get i'll get to launch it right here on a show while he's not
159. 11:50here
160. 11:51uh... but i've always uh... use a kind of
161. 11:54accounted generic
162. 11:56permission that many many others have used which is that world view of that
163. 11:59of belief
164. 12:00and uh... i've rethought that recently
165. 12:03I think the best illustration of worldview is a set of glasses, a set of lenses through
166. 12:09which we see and interpret all of life in reality.
167. 12:14And my view is that a set of beliefs or a set of doctrines or a philosophy of life is
168. 12:21downstream from a worldview.
169. 12:24A worldview informs your theology, it informs your philosophy of life, your set of beliefs.
170. 12:32But a worldview is formed from the time that you're very young by all of your experiences.
171. 12:38So your parents, the books you read, the school you go to, the movies you watch, the music
172. 12:44you listen to, all of your cultural input help the shape of perception that you have of life
173. 12:50and reality.
174. 12:51And so one of the ways that we see worldview contrasted the most is during an election.
175. 12:57And you have half the country that seems to be just polar opposite ends of the spectrum,
176. 13:02on political issues, and you think to yourself, how can someone be so completely opposite of
177. 13:07me on these issues? Well, it's because they have these lenses, and I describe it kind of
178. 13:12like if you're looking at a white screen with blue lenses, you see that screen as blue. Even
179. 13:18though the screen is white, your perception of it is blue, or if you have red lenses, you
180. 13:22see that screen as red or pink. And so depending on what color lenses you're viewing the world,
181. 13:29you're gonna have a different interpretation of it.
182. 13:31So it's the filter of the lens
183. 13:33through which we interpret all of life in reality.
184. 13:36And that really is our worldview.
185. 13:39And then our worldview begins to shape our beliefs
186. 13:42about all the rest of life.
187. 13:45And so whether you're a theistic, believing in God
188. 13:48or atheistic non-belief in God,
189. 13:53those things will shape how you interpret everything else.
190. 13:55So those things, your theology,
191. 13:57is your starting point for all of the rest of life.
192. 14:00And then on apologetics, it really comes from the Greek word
193. 14:04apologia, and it means to give a defense,
194. 14:07and it comes from the Greek legal system.
195. 14:10It was a term that lawyers would use, or was use of lawyers,
196. 14:12when they would represent a client to defend their client's
197. 14:15court.
198. 14:16And so it means to give a defense.
199. 14:19We tend to use the word very differently today,
200. 14:22when we say I'm apologetic for that,
201. 14:24or I want to apologize for that.
202. 14:25make this sound like we're sorry for something.
203. 14:27But in the original definition,
204. 14:30etymology of that word,
205. 14:31it means to give a defense for something.
206. 14:34So we say Christian apologetics,
207. 14:35we mean giving a defense for the Christian worldview.
208. 14:39So I would say that the worldview is the way.
209. 14:41Oh, I'm sorry, Israel, we've got to pull out,
210. 14:44take a break just for a second.
211. 14:45Alex McFarland here with our guest Israel Wayne.
212. 14:48We're talking about apologetics and worldview
213. 14:51and the soul of our culture.
214. 14:53This is the American Family Radio Network.
215. 14:55Stay tuned, we're gonna take a break back after this.
216. 15:01A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
217. 15:05In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 28,
218. 15:07starting in verse 18, it tells us these words,
219. 15:09and Jesus came and spoke to them saying,
220. 15:11all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.
221. 15:15Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
222. 15:18baptizing them in the name of the Father
223. 15:20and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
224. 15:22Teaching them to observe all things
225. 15:23that I've commanded you in low,
226. 15:25with you always even to the end of the age, amen. That contains what we call the great commission.
227. 15:32God calls us to be a disciple and to make disciples. And that's a command God lays before us each and
228. 15:38every day. Every day is a day for us to follow Jesus Christ and to be involved in the work of
229. 15:43helping and teaching and encouraging others to follow Jesus Christ as well. Ask someone how you can
230. 15:49and pray for them.
231. 15:50Encourage someone to read three chapters
232. 15:53in the Bible every day.
233. 15:54Pray for God to help you to both be a faithful disciple
234. 15:57and to make disciples as well.
235. 16:06Shining light into the darkness,
236. 16:08this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
237. 16:12Welcome back to the program,
238. 16:14Alex McFarland here,
239. 16:15so honored that you're listening
240. 16:17and so honored to be talking with Israel Wayne.
241. 16:20And hey, Israel, I've got some more world view
242. 16:23and apologetics questions for you,
243. 16:25But before we resume that line of conversation,
244. 16:29tell us about your website and where you're gonna be
245. 16:32in 2025 and just bring us up to speed
246. 16:35on how people can learn about your ministry
247. 16:37and follow what you're doing.
248. 16:40Well, thank you.
249. 16:41Yeah, my calendar of events is on my IsraelWayne.com site.
250. 16:45We don't have everything up yet,
251. 16:46but I'm speaking at a number of conferences
252. 16:49this next year, I'm gonna be at Cultureproof in Tennessee.
253. 16:52I'm gonna be at Pigeon Forge teaching diligently.
254. 16:56speaking in Michigan and I can't even Alaska. I'm going to be in Alaska. So lots of different
255. 17:02places. But there's also an apologetics website that I lead and it is called ChristianWorldView.net.
256. 17:11So for those who like apologetics, I have lots of links to other worldview and apologetics
257. 17:15ministries at ChristianWorldView.net. And then my family ministry is FamilyRenewold.org.
258. 17:22So those are three places that people can plug in and get different content on all three of us. That's great. That's great
259. 17:29I've found just like you said you were in in Europe teaching on apologetics
260. 17:34It's like everywhere I go and by God's grace. I'm in a pulpit somewhere like every weekend
261. 17:40People come up to me by countless numbers. They say I've been in church my whole life. I've never heard this
262. 17:47apologetics, huh? Never never been exposed to it before and
263. 17:51I'm with you.
264. 17:53It's like if you even try to do missions or evangelism within seconds, you're going to
265. 18:00need to pivot toward some apologetics.
266. 18:05Would you agree it's really one of the great untapped topics that the church really should
267. 18:10speak about?
268. 18:11Well, Jesus himself told us that we're supposed to love our God with all of our minds.
269. 18:18I think with evangelicalism we have emphasized loving God with all your heart which is important
270. 18:24because we do want our emotions to be engaged in love for God.
271. 18:29But our emotions tend to follow our intellect and so loving God with all of our mind is not
272. 18:36only a helpful suggestion, it's actually a command in Scripture and it's something that
273. 18:40we should take a lot more seriously.
274. 18:43Do you think that your should teach philosophy?
275. 18:48I have a lot of Christians that tell me that philosophy is bad,
276. 18:51we need to stay away from it, and I get that because there's a lot of bad philosophy out there.
277. 18:56But I've actually in the process of writing a high school philosophy curriculum from a Christian perspective
278. 19:02that's going to be available for high school students probably next year.
279. 19:05It'll be released sometime by master books.
280. 19:08And we're going to go through metaphysics and aesthetics and epistemology and ethics and logic.
281. 19:15So we're going to go through all of that and address those issues from within a Christian
282. 19:19framework.
283. 19:20And really the word philosophy comes from two Greek words, Philos, which is love and Sophia,
284. 19:26which is wisdom.
285. 19:27And so the word philosophy means the love of wisdom.
286. 19:30And we're told in the scripture that we're supposed to love wisdom.
287. 19:33We see that in Proverbs 8 and other places.
288. 19:35And so really again, philosophy should be the domain of the Christian.
289. 19:39We've sort of surrendered it to the non-Christians, to the heathen culture.
290. 19:44I believe as Christians we need to learn how to think properly.
291. 19:48It's not really, again, it's not a question of will we do philosophy or not.
292. 19:52Everybody's going to do philosophy.
293. 19:53The question is will we do it well or will we do it poorly?
294. 19:56Will we do it biblically or unbiblically?
295. 19:58In our view is that we want to do it well and we want to do it biblically.
296. 20:02At what age can you start philosophy, critical thinking, worldview, defending the specifics
297. 20:10of a Christian worldview?
298. 20:13the church who at what age can we start this israel
299. 20:18we should be starting at early elementary
300. 20:21obviously we need to give a big push when they become cleaners
301. 20:25but i've interviewed doctor george barner about his latest research and
302. 20:30latest book and
303. 20:31he said that a young person's world view is fundamentally fairly locked down by
304. 20:36age twelve
305. 20:37i think that something we've missed within the church as we thought well when
306. 20:41get to be about fifteen sixteen seventeen will start introducing them to
307. 20:44apologetic
308. 20:46according to barners research with catching it too late
309. 20:50oh i agree i agree and you know it's so sad and look i'm not trying to you know
310. 20:55pick on the church but uh...
311. 20:58uh... i've had a lot of churches and they'll say listen we're gonna give our
312. 21:01graduating seniors your book
313. 21:03stand strong in college
314. 21:05or the guide you thought you knew exposing ten common myths about christianity
315. 21:10They're like, Alex, don't worry.
316. 21:11We've got the apologetics worldview base covered
317. 21:14because in our graduation ceremony,
318. 21:17we're giving them one of your books.
319. 21:19And I'm like, thanks, but that's not enough.
320. 21:23You can't, in the last 30 minutes
321. 21:26that a kid will be in your youth group,
322. 21:28you can't just hand them a book
323. 21:30and think that they're ready for the shark-infested waters
324. 21:33of academia.
325. 21:34But I think it's very important.
326. 21:37And don't you think Israel, what we have as an opportunity, and frankly, a calling to make
327. 21:44the church, the Christian family and the church, really just the center of intellectual rigor.
328. 21:54And like you said earlier, loving God with all of our mind, I think God is honored when we
329. 22:00do that and we not only win souls but equip heads and minds, the church needs to rise
330. 22:08up and do it.
331. 22:09Absolutely.
332. 22:12And I believe we're much more equipped than we were 50 years ago because we have so many
333. 22:16more resources.
334. 22:17There are so many great apologists that created good tools to help us.
335. 22:21So that's a blessing.
336. 22:23We just have to reach out and utilize those.
337. 22:25I'd like to say something a little bold here.
338. 22:27I'd like to say that I think parents in particular,
339. 22:30and in a supplementary way, grandparents,
340. 22:33need to really take the responsibility
341. 22:35for the discipleship and worldview formation
342. 22:38of their own children,
343. 22:40because there's been this expectation
344. 22:42that the church is going to do it for them,
345. 22:45and statistically, all the research shows
346. 22:48that's not happening, at least not in general.
347. 22:51And so, you can't assume that just because your child
348. 22:54is in Sunday school and youth groups
349. 22:56that they're getting equipped with the right kinds of training.
350. 23:00They're getting, in most cases,
351. 23:02just very basic introductory level Christianity
352. 23:05and not much more.
353. 23:06So I think it's a great opportunity for parents
354. 23:09and grandparents to make sure that they're taking responsibility
355. 23:13for that piece, whatever the church is doing,
356. 23:15is supplementary to that.
357. 23:16And that's great.
358. 23:17We want to encourage churches to do more,
359. 23:19much more not less.
360. 23:21But I think we can't just sit back and assume
361. 23:24that it's taking place because in most cases it's simply not.
362. 23:27Yeah, exactly.
363. 23:29Let me get one last question regarding apologetics.
364. 23:33What do you think are the top two or three areas of study?
365. 23:38What are the key apologetics topics, if you will,
366. 23:44that the discipleship program should cover?
367. 23:50Well, certainly I think you have to deal with the creation
368. 23:52evolution debate.
369. 23:53to a huge one. I think you also have to deal with the authority of scripture. How do we know that the
370. 23:59Bible is inspired and fallible and inerrant? You also have to deal with the existence of God.
371. 24:05What is a good case for theism? And then of course the resurrection, right? Because
372. 24:09the false that if Christ hasn't risen from the dead, then we are of all people most miserable,
373. 24:14and we're still dead in our trespasses and sins. So we need to be able to have good answers on all
374. 24:19of those fronts. Of course, there's many other fields of apologetics, but I think those are
375. 24:24some of the fundamental ones that we really want to focus on.
376. 24:27Amen. Hey, Israel Wayne, thanks, man. We're out of time right now, but thanks for being
377. 24:32with us and even more importantly, thanks for the great work you're doing all across
378. 24:35America. Well, likewise, thank you, Alex. God bless you. Folks, you're listening to
379. 24:41the American Family Radio Network, Alex McFarlane here sitting in for Abe Hamilton on the Hamilton
380. 24:46corner so honored to be doing this. And hey, we're going to change gears. We do so much
381. 24:51with content like worldview and headlines and things like that. But I want to talk about
382. 24:57music and bring in a great friend and someone that has blessed tens of millions of people
383. 25:04all around the world. He is a prolific recording artist and constantly touring musician and just
384. 25:11beloved part of the church landscape, Charles Billingsley. And he's on a Christmas tour now.
385. 25:17We want to hear about that. And he's toured the world with people like David Jeremiah,
386. 25:21Liberty University, Thomas Road Church. And you've heard his music for much of your adult life. I know.
387. 25:30And he's with us now. Charles Billingsley, thank you so much for making time to be with us
388. 25:34here on the American Family Radio Network. Hey, Charles, are you there? Have we got you, bro?
389. 25:44Well, he's going to call back in. This is what happens when we've got people on
390. 25:53cell phone, but I'm sure Charles will be back in just a moment. But let me, I was
391. 25:58going to do this, but we had the guest on hold. I want to tell you a little bit
392. 26:02about my 2025 schedule. We have got a lot going on and you can follow my travel
393. 26:09schedule at AlexMcFarlane.com. AlexMcFarlane.com. And two of the things that I would
394. 26:16make you aware of because frankly it would make a great Christmas gift is a trip to the
395. 26:22Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center in western North Carolina, THECOVE, theCove.org.
396. 26:30Now I've been there for like 19 previous summers and Will Graham who leads the Cove, son of
397. 26:38Franklin Graham, whenever he would invite me to the Cove he would ask me to teach a book
398. 26:42of the Bible. And so what I'm going to be doing in July 18-20, I'll be teaching the book
399. 26:48of Job. Now over the years I've been to the Cove and I've had the privilege of teaching
400. 26:52like the book of Acts and the book of Romans and the book of Genesis. But I'm going to be
401. 26:58teaching the book of Job specifically the problem of pain and suffering. If God is good
402. 27:04wise or pain and suffering in the world, then I'll be there the first week of August with
403. 27:08J Warner Wallace doing a week on apologetics.
404. 27:13So just go to thecove.org, Google my name, Alex McFarland.
405. 27:18I'd love to see you there.
406. 27:19We always, we had a family from India there last summer and people from all over the world
407. 27:24and let's join together at the Billy Graham Training Center and do a deep dive into the
408. 27:29Word of God.
409. 27:30Well, then we've got Charles back and Charles, are you there, my friend?
410. 27:35I am.
411. 27:36How are you, Alex?
412. 27:37I am blessed.
413. 27:38Thanks for calling back, brother.
414. 27:39I know you're getting ready to do a concert, aren't you?
415. 27:43I sure am.
416. 27:44In fact, my guys are in there sound checking right now.
417. 27:48And you're making a clear view with us on AFR.
418. 27:50I want to say thank you so much.
419. 27:52And the Celebrate Me home, you're doing a Christmas tour.
420. 27:57Tell us what that's like, brother.
421. 28:01Well, we've been in quite a few little cities here recently.
422. 28:04Let's see, we started in New York City at Carnegie Hall on the Monday before Thanksgiving,
423. 28:11and then from there I was in Atlanta, and then, goodness, then we were in South Carolina,
424. 28:19and then, you know, just kind of all over the southeast.
425. 28:21Texas, several times Houston, Dallas, did a thing with the Irving Symphony, and then we
426. 28:26were at Preston Wood in Dallas, and then on to Oklahoma City, and now we're in Mississippi,
427. 28:32tomorrow's Birmingham. So you know just enjoying doing these Christmas concerts
428. 28:38all over the country and having a blast. I love doing these Christmas concerts
429. 28:42because crowds are always good crowds. People love to come out for
430. 28:47for Christmas music and we did a Christmas record several years ago that
431. 28:52we toured every year. It was just a lot of fun.
432. 28:55How many times have you played Carnegie Hall?
433. 28:58I think that was my fifth time.
434. 29:02Wow.
435. 29:03So, you know, it's a familiar building now, but it's so iconic and so wonderful.
436. 29:10What was fun about this year is that it was a really full house and I get to share the
437. 29:18Christmas story of the gospel with many people who would never darken the doors of church.
438. 29:23And so it's just so fun.
439. 29:26And it's such a privilege to be able to do that, that I don't take the opportunity lightly.
440. 29:32I really, I'm just, I feel so blessed to be able to do it.
441. 29:37You know, every place, I'm a preacher, you're a musician, for a safe center to present the
442. 29:45gospel anywhere is an honor.
443. 29:48But let me ask you this way, Charles.
444. 29:50Carnegie Haugh, Tchaikovsky has played there.
445. 29:53George Gershwin has played there.
446. 29:55the beat
447. 29:57so what is it like to be on that stage charles
448. 30:02well i think when you're standing on that day doing it
449. 30:04and you know you see this
450. 30:06the people in that knows
451. 30:08i guess it's for balcony
452. 30:11you know you can't let the building intimidate you although it
453. 30:14it certainly could because of
454. 30:17just the you know the
455. 30:18i caught a nature of that stage and who's played there
456. 30:22uh...
457. 30:23so i i kind of remove myself from the whole
458. 30:26where i'm at and just trying to find individuals in the crowd that will help me communicate better
459. 30:32you know but
460. 30:34at the same time you can't help but feel the nostalgia in that room i mean it
461. 30:38it's such a beautiful place
462. 30:41uh... and there's so many storied artists that played there but uh...
463. 30:46i don't know you just it can you when you walk on the stage you just kind of feel
464. 30:50privileged because
465. 30:52I don't know how many times more I'll get to get to do that in my life or career.
466. 30:57So every time is your treat and it really is a memory-making moment every time.
467. 31:06How did the New York audiences respond to the gospel?
468. 31:10Well, incredibly positively.
469. 31:14It's fun because the Christians who are in the room are quite vocal about cheering and
470. 31:20the Christmas songs, you know, songs like O'Horynite stuff, they just absolutely go nuts over.
471. 31:27And so you kind of get caught up in that energy.
472. 31:30And you know, the thing about a crowd that comes to Carnegie is that they appreciate any
473. 31:37music that's done well.
474. 31:39And they love Christmas, and it's the first Christmas songs they would have heard all
475. 31:44season, because every time we do this, we do it on the Monday before Thanksgiving.
476. 31:48And so it's kind of a kickoff to everybody's Christmas season.
477. 31:52And so the response is normally pretty huge and extremely positive.
478. 31:57It's a wonderful way to kick off the season for me.
479. 32:00I'll tell you that.
480. 32:01No doubt.
481. 32:02Hey, can you hang on?
482. 32:03We've got a brief break.
483. 32:04Can you stay with us, Charles?
484. 32:06Sure.
485. 32:08Yeah.
486. 32:09I'm just curious.
487. 32:10Where are you performing tonight?
488. 32:12I am at Pleasant Hill Baptist Church in Columbus, Mississippi.
489. 32:17We have a fold out show tonight in this wonderful bedroom community and it's just a blast.
490. 32:25We're going to have a wonderful time.
491. 32:27Amen.
492. 32:28What's your website, brother?
493. 32:30Charles Billingsley.com.
494. 32:32Charles Billingsley.com, folks.
495. 32:36What a gift to the church and to the nation.
496. 32:38Charles Billingsley.
497. 32:39He's our guest with us on the American Family Radio Network tonight, Alex McFarland here.
498. 32:44We've got more to come.
499. 32:45We're going to talk about the beloved songs of Christmas, Charles' Ministry, and a whole
500. 32:50lot more.
501. 32:51So stay tuned, be blessed, Merry Christmas, we're back after this.
502. 33:02Culture is a product of us being placed in a particular location, and it is God's desire
503. 33:07that his life bearers would culture or cultivate a particular area.
504. 33:12Join Abraham Hamilton III as he presents the biblical case for cultural engagement.
505. 33:18of powerful video resource from the American Family Association's Cultural Institute Series.
506. 33:24You and I create the culture of our country.
507. 33:28Visit AFAStore.net.
508. 33:30The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Bitted Common Terrors are available at AFR.net.
509. 33:41Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
510. 33:47Welcome back. Alex McFarland here, our guest, Charles Billingsley. Listen, I've known of
511. 33:52Charles Billingsley so long when I was in graduate school at Liberty and my wife and I
512. 33:58were attending Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia. Our pastor was Jerry
513. 34:03Falwell, just one of the greatest people ever. And we would hear Charles Billingsley sing
514. 34:08so many times. And folks, I got to say this, by the way, his website is CharlesBillingsley.com
515. 34:15spell just like it sounds and we're going to talk about his new record.
516. 34:18But listen to this, the 10th commandment says, thou shalt not covet.
517. 34:23And my goodness, I just wish I could sing like this guy.
518. 34:26I mean, I'm like, Lord, why couldn't you have given me a singing voice like Charles Billingsley?
519. 34:32But thank the Lord, there is Charles Billingsley and he's given his life to spreading the gospel
520. 34:40and he does it well.
521. 34:41I don't use this word lightly, but he is an anointed voice in music for the gospel.
522. 34:49And brother, thank you for what you do.
523. 34:51Honor, Alex, it really is.
524. 34:55I mean, you know, I've been doing this now for 32 years and I still, every night I just
525. 35:03counted such a privilege to be able to do what we do.
526. 35:07We've got a concert tonight here in Columbus, Mississippi.
527. 35:11You know, even though I'm weary from, we got 28 events in 23 days, at the same time I'm
528. 35:18excited.
529. 35:19I just love doing this.
530. 35:21I love sharing the gospel.
531. 35:23I love using my voice to do it.
532. 35:25And I love the story of Christmas.
533. 35:27And so it's still a privilege, man.
534. 35:29I still can't believe I get to do this for a living.
535. 35:32So honored to be a part of it, man.
536. 35:34Just on.
537. 35:35God is good.
538. 35:36God is good.
539. 35:37Yeah.
540. 35:38and to still be making music too, it's fun. We did this Christmas record six years ago,
541. 35:44and it has been so much fun touring this thing. But we keep making new stuff, including a brand
542. 35:52new release that we just put out. Yeah. Now, is that the one the shadow of your smile?
543. 35:58Oh, now that's the jazz record. That one we put out two years ago, that is really fun.
544. 36:03if you're a fan of classics or like you know Frank Sinatra and stuff
545. 36:07yeah what I'll tell you I'll tell you the story what what happened is when we
546. 36:11went in
547. 36:11we made this Christmas record I wanted to make a Christmas record
548. 36:15like I like to listen to and most people
549. 36:19I think they're big fans of this that nostalgic sound
550. 36:22and so I am too and so I wanted to make a record it sounded like Frank Sinatra
551. 36:28or
552. 36:29and you know, Matt King Cole.
553. 36:31And in order to do that, you know, we had to record it
554. 36:34the way those were recorded,
555. 36:35which means you gotta put everybody in the room
556. 36:37at the same time and do it like they used to do it
557. 36:40in the 50s.
558. 36:41And so that's what we did when we made this record.
559. 36:43And it was so much fun that I decided one day
560. 36:47I'm gonna come back and do a standard record
561. 36:50just like we made the Christmas one.
562. 36:52And so the shadow of your smile is just that.
563. 36:55It's big band, it's beautiful orchestrations, it's standards, like the very thought of you.
564. 37:04It had to be you, those classic standards.
565. 37:08And we recorded it the same way we did the Christmas record.
566. 37:12We pulled the whole orchestra in the room at the same time and did it all together.
567. 37:15It was really fun.
568. 37:17Did you use the old ribbon mics and tube compressors?
569. 37:21Oh yeah.
570. 37:22Yeah, of course, you know, they don't go to tape anymore.
571. 37:25the big difference but still capturing all that in the room at the same time
572. 37:29create a different dynamic with the players and certainly a different sound
573. 37:34than it does when you're just you know pulling in a few players at a time you
574. 37:38know yeah like we do so often we're making do you know I love see I grew up my my
575. 37:45mom and dad they were playing for us the the being Crosby being Crosby Christmas
576. 37:51record and the Sinatra and the Dean Martin and you know that kind of thing.
577. 37:57And so I grew up on that. So I want to have a real conversation with you about
578. 38:03the music because so many of the great songs and look I love the Christian
579. 38:09songs Oh Holy Night and the First No Will and Hark the Hero Rangers. All that
580. 38:14stuff I mean I'm steeped in that. But so much of that 40s and 50s was almost
581. 38:20like jazz, you know, melton-masing, you know, have yourself a mirror a little Christmas,
582. 38:29and those kind of things. The music, it's really stood the test of time because it's legitimately
583. 38:36good music, isn't it?
584. 38:38It is, and that's where these Christmas concerts are so fun for me because they're very light
585. 38:45jazz. That's what they are. Like, I'll be home for Christmas. That was written in the
586. 38:49for the people that were serving the military overseas you know being
587. 38:53cross-b
588. 38:54will will do that with dedicated to the military and it's a jazz trio that
589. 38:58plays with me and you know these things are just there so laid back and
590. 39:02but they're so beautiful
591. 39:04and there's such timeless lyrics what white christmas is another example
592. 39:08Irving Berlin
593. 39:09but uh...
594. 39:11huh
595. 39:11or vin Berlin
596. 39:13that's right
597. 39:15that's right way to pull out the composer
598. 39:18name there out that's pretty good
599. 39:20but yeah or the real in wrote that one in it it's just uh... it's timeless
600. 39:24is what it is and people love it
601. 39:26and so and i love to think that so
602. 39:29if you like that kind of music then you'll definitely want to grab this
603. 39:32christmas record is called it's christmas time again
604. 39:35and you're a timeless
605. 39:37founding project
606. 39:38well i i know we're a week and a half away from christmas but are there
607. 39:42it's still time for people catch you on tour and you have a few more stops in
608. 39:46this Christmas tour.
609. 39:47Oh yes, well we do.
610. 39:51Mainly head back up to Virginia way.
611. 39:53We'll be in Martinsville, Virginia, Wednesday night.
612. 39:56I have a private event in Birmingham tomorrow.
613. 39:59And then I've got a big, big band concert Friday night at Liberty University.
614. 40:04That one is sold out, which is going to be really fun.
615. 40:08And then Sunday night I'll be in Charlottesville.
616. 40:12But we're filming Friday nights concert at Liberty.
617. 40:15And so if they don't catch it live, we'll be putting some stuff out next year.
618. 40:24And we also have the new single that we just put out last week.
619. 40:28It's a remake of the old Kenny Loggin's classic, Celebrate Me Home.
620. 40:33Okay, tell me about that.
621. 40:35Now, he's a friend, right?
622. 40:37You know him, right?
623. 40:40No, I don't.
624. 40:41We've kind of connected here a little bit in the last month because we did this remake
625. 40:49and we included a guy on the track named Chris Rodriguez who played guitar.
626. 40:54Well Chris has been the music director for Kenny Loggins on the road for many, many years.
627. 41:00And Chris fell in love with our version so he sent it to Kenny.
628. 41:04And the difference between what we did and what you hear on Kenny's record in the original
629. 41:10is that in Kenny's record, Kenny actually has the song in six, eight time, and we wrote it,
630. 41:19we redid it in four, four times. Well, we didn't know this, but when Chris sent our version to Kenny
631. 41:26for him to hear, he fell in love with this version because it's in four, four, and believe it or not,
632. 41:32that's how he originally wrote it. But when he went into the studio, the very famous producer
633. 41:37who was producing his record, his name was Phil Ramon. Phil was 6'8". So Kenny had never
634. 41:44heard his original song the way he originally wrote it. And of course we didn't know any
635. 41:49of that. We were just trying to make it a little different since I was doing a remake.
636. 41:53So when he heard it he loved it and so he put out a quote for us telling us everybody that
637. 41:58that was his new favorite version of that song which of course thrilled me. And I'm hoping
638. 42:04one day I can sing it with him but I have yet to meet the man but I hope I get to you
639. 42:09one day soon.
640. 42:10Well that's cool.
641. 42:11So let me ask you, who growing up Charles and if you're just tuning in to this we're
642. 42:16talking with Charles Billingsley.
643. 42:17Hey who were your musical heroes or musical influences growing up?
644. 42:24Hey Charles, you there?
645. 42:26Can you hear me Charles?
646. 42:29He's getting ready to do a show so it might be in a building.
647. 42:32Yeah can you hear me?
648. 42:36Charles are you there?
649. 42:37disconnected
650. 42:39I don't know I was
651. 42:42Who were your musical influences growing up?
652. 42:48Well, I don't know if Charles can hear us because I know he's in a building getting ready to do a concert Alex McFarlane here
653. 42:54Now you might be seeing their list and thinking what are these guys are talking about biblical worldview?
654. 42:58They're talking about music. Yeah, because do you know what all truth is God's truth?
655. 43:05RC sprawl said that it's really true
656. 43:07So what is truth? And by the way, Charles, are you there if you're if you can hear me jump back in?
657. 43:13You know, we might have lost Charles Billingsley. His website Charles Billingsley.com
658. 43:19So listen to this folks. Here's where I'm going with this.
659. 43:23There are really eight engines that drive the culture. Now you think about this folks and
660. 43:30when I was working on the truth project 20 years ago for James Dobson
661. 43:34Dell Tackett, many of you might have heard of the Truth Project, it was a video, I had
662. 43:40the privilege of being a reader on the scripts, the on-camera talent for that was Dr. Dell Tackett.
663. 43:47Dell Tackett said, look, any direction, 360 degrees, any field of endeavor, and God has
664. 43:54spoken.
665. 43:56That's true, right?
666. 43:57So I've often taught youth, look, there's the home, the church, the classroom, the media,
667. 44:05the marketplace, the judiciary, the sciences, the arts.
668. 44:10All of those realms belong to God.
669. 44:12Now you have a role to play in one or more of those realms.
670. 44:16I think we've got Charles back.
671. 44:18Charles, are you there?
672. 44:19I am.
673. 44:20Sorry.
674. 44:21I don't know what happened there.
675. 44:22Hey, that's okay, man.
676. 44:23Thanks for calling back.
677. 44:24I was going to ask you, we've only got a couple of minutes.
678. 44:27Now you're getting ready to get on stage. Hey growing up
679. 44:30Who were your heroes? Who were your musical influences?
680. 44:35Well, I was a big Kenny log and fan which is one reason I'm thrilled about the fact that he likes our new remake
681. 44:41Cool, but in the Christian circles. I loved I loved Larnell Harris Steve Green
682. 44:48I played trumpet so I loved field riskle too and
683. 44:51Then in the second world I was a big Phil Collins fan and Kenny logins
684. 44:56and uh... you know that kind of that circle right there
685. 45:00uh...
686. 45:01but uh... general of the music of journey you know so
687. 45:05i was uh... i was a product of the eighties
688. 45:07alix which i think you probably were to work here maybe a little at that
689. 45:12uh... you have to be degree i mean my hero was brian wilson and uh...
690. 45:16you know since that
691. 45:18yet we had him on the show on one of my great
692. 45:21i interviewed him twice once for focus on the family
693. 45:24and then in uh... i think it was two thousand nine my first year of doing
694. 45:29radio for a far had brian wilson on
695. 45:32because he had a christmas record
696. 45:34that was mostly hymns
697. 45:36uh... heart the hero interesting cool and we had brian on on this network but uh...
698. 45:42you know uh...
699. 45:43the the new record you're talking about celebrate me home
700. 45:46uh... tell me what what is that song about
701. 45:50well you know come being on the road of bines this song means a lot to me
702. 45:54because it really is about finally coming home.
703. 45:59There's a line in that second verse that is pretty revealing.
704. 46:05He says, I never know where I belong.
705. 46:08And it's a powerful line to me because, you know,
706. 46:12the last 32 years I've traveled all over the world singing.
707. 46:17And it's a weird feeling, Alex, because then as somebody
708. 46:20goes on the road, you know how it is.
709. 46:22When you're home, you feel like you should
710. 46:24be on the road ministering and when you're on the road ministering you feel like you need
711. 46:27to be home.
712. 46:28Yeah, exactly.
713. 46:30I think that's why this song speaks so much to me because when I finally get home I'm so
714. 46:36thrilled.
715. 46:37But three days later I feel like I'm supposed to go again which kills my wife and of course
716. 46:42she goes with me some too but I've always felt that tension.
717. 46:47I think that's why I fell in love with this song years ago and finally recording it the
718. 46:53words just really struck home with me. Yeah I totally relate because I'm like
719. 46:59when you're on the other side of the world you're homesick I am homesick.
720. 47:04Absolutely. Like three days after I get home my wife is like hey don't you have
721. 47:09somewhere to go preach.
722. 47:12My wife is and yet I'll get on a plane and I immediately miss being home. It's
723. 47:21It's the tension between your calling in both places, I think.
724. 47:26And I feel like Kenny Logins in that song many years ago
725. 47:30sort of captured that tension with the idea of,
726. 47:35hey, when I am home, let's celebrate it.
727. 47:39I mean, I just want to celebrate being home.
728. 47:41And of course, home is not just going to a house.
729. 47:45It means being with your loved ones.
730. 47:46And so I hope everybody listening doesn't just have a house
731. 47:50this year for Christmas, but that you have a home.
732. 47:53Charles, where can people hear the new single?
733. 47:55Where can they buy your music and just follow all things?
734. 47:59Charles Billingsley.
735. 48:01Anywhere you can get your other music, Amazon or Spotify
736. 48:06or Apple or YouTube.
737. 48:09It's on all the same outlets that everybody else in the world
738. 48:12is.
739. 48:13But if you want particular physical products and stuff,
740. 48:16you can just go to Charles Billingsley.com.
741. 48:19What's your favorite Christmas song?
742. 48:22Oh, Holy Night, hands down, no doubt about it.
743. 48:25Amen, well, listen, we gotta visit again
744. 48:28and we'll talk music.
745. 48:29This has been Alex McFarland with our very special guest,
746. 48:32Charles Billings Lee, long-time colleague and friend.
747. 48:35Hey man, have a great show tonight
748. 48:37and a great rest of the year and brother Merry Christmas.
749. 48:41Thank you, Alex, and the same be you, my friend.
750. 48:44Thank you.
751. 48:45Well, folks, I'll be back Tuesday night and Wednesday night.
752. 48:47We've got some great content, some great guests, and we thank you for listening.
753. 48:51I hope you're just drawing in close to Jesus, close to your loved ones.
754. 48:55Hope you're all set for a great and very meaningful Christmas season.
755. 48:59The AFR Network is part of that, and we bring you great content all day long.
756. 49:03Tell somebody about AFR, but most of all, tell everybody about Jesus.
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782. 50:14The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
783. 50:19Family Association or American Family Radio.