December 13, 2024 · 49:18

Mike Farris, Founder of HSLDA, Patrick Henry College, former CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom, and General Counsel for NRB, steps into “The Corner.”

Bible & Theology

Show notes

0:00 - 15:00. Luke 16:10-12 (ESV). “One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.” 15:00 - 31:00. Mike Farris, Founder of HSLDA, Patrick Henry College, former CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom, and General Counsel for NRB, steps into “The Corner.” 31:00 - 48:00. Life’s journey is an accumulation of individual steps. Step well. or call: 800-326-4543 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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800-326-4543
877-616-2396

Full transcript Auto-generated · 8,845 words

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0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
0:18And the philosophies of this world.
0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
0:23Even in this dark moment.
0:26Let's not miss our moment.
0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
0:33Welcome to the Hamilton Corner, good evening everybody.
0:35Welcome to the program, Abraham Hamilton the third.
0:38Here, I am in studio with J-Mac,
0:40produce extraordinaire often imitate and never duplicate it.
0:43Y'all should see his beanie.
0:45Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.
0:48We're ready to rock and roll with today's edition
0:49of the program, which I hope will be a source of inspiration
0:54and encouragement to you, and that the cumulative impact
0:57be, Lord, what would you have me to do? With this life you have given me, this time that you've
1:05given me in this land that you have planted me, not as an, not in an effort to earn your salvation
1:14from a workspace standpoint, absolutely not. But in full view of gratitude, appreciation, humility,
1:21and obedience to the Lord and being his ambassadors to be salt and light in this world that God
1:28has deposited us in at this very moment. Many of you, if not most of you are making your transition
1:35from your part-time jobs where you generate an income to your full-time jobs where you cultivate
1:40an outcome. As you do so, I want to remind you of the primacy that God places on family as well as
1:48reminds you that outcome cultivation is the order of business for every single member of God's eternal
1:57family. I also want to say for those of you attuning in who have not yet become members of God's eternal
2:03family, I would encourage you to take full advantage of the time that God has given you today. Do not
2:07harm your heart when the Lord draws you. I know a lot of people, one of the main deterrents to them
2:13submitting themselves to Jesus Christ is that they've been hurt in different ways by different people
2:18But I want to tell you very simply that whatever experience you had you must refuse to project that
2:25on to Jesus, you know, there are people who might have falsely represented him in your life, but that false
2:32representation has no bearing on who he is,
2:35no bearing on the truth of who he is and I would encourage and challenge you.
2:41Begin reading the Gospel of John and ask God to show, to reveal himself to you.
2:47When you see the craziness that's happening in our world,
2:52the things that are swirling all around us,
2:54they really just confirmed the fact that the Bible is true.
2:58Eternity is a long time to be wrong,
3:03a long time to be wrong.
3:09Take advantage of the opportunity that you have now
3:11to surrender your life to Jesus Christ,
3:13and I guarantee you you won't regret it.
3:16I'm not saying your life will be made of flower beds
3:18of ease thereafter, but what I am saying,
3:20that having found safe harbor in the eternal arc of safety.
3:25Come what may in this life,
3:26you will have an eternal anchor upon which to rely upon,
3:29that you'll be able to navigate the highs, the joys,
3:33the successes, the victories in life,
3:34as well as the downturns, the valleys in life.
3:38You'll have an anchor that allows you to have peace and joy
3:42no matter what is happening in you,
3:45I'm sorry, happening around you,
3:47circumstantially, the peace and joy in you
3:50will be able to provide that calmness and that stability
3:53to where you would literally be able to say,
3:54man, my God's grace, whatever comes my way,
3:57will be able to confront it and overcome.
4:00That is available to you.
4:01That is available to you.
4:04All right, to the word of God, we go Luke chapter 16
4:07verses 10 through 12 is what I want to talk to you about.
4:11There's a principle there in scripture,
4:14and Dr. Lucas recording the words of Jesus
4:17He's teaching and some of you might have heard this before but maybe not within its particular context
4:25But it's important that we navigate the scripture within this context absolutely
4:30But this principle is one that I have found to be true of my own life
4:34But my experience doesn't validate it. It's true because it's the word of God
4:38My experience simply affirms what God has already revealed to us revealed to us in his holy word
4:44And this is what Jesus said loop 16 verse 10
4:48One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.
5:02If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust you with true riches?
5:09And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who will give you that which is your own?
5:17who will give you that which is your own.
5:23The principle I want to talk about is faithfulness
5:29in little things is what provides the experiential foundation
5:36for God to reward you so to speak
5:41by graduating you to bigger things.
5:43And I wanna say that the Lord uses his terminology
5:45because we can relate to them as human beings.
5:48But frankly, everything that is human from God's perspective
5:51would be little, whether it's dealing with a trillion dollar
5:55thing or whether it's dealing with, you know, $5 or $100.
5:58Because it's all small to the King of glory.
6:00But the Lord is using this terminology
6:02to grab us and our hearts and minds.
6:05I've been talking a lot about taking full advantage
6:08of this reprieve, this mercy that God has granted us.
6:12What are we going to do with it?
6:13And some of you, as I said, what, how can I respond?
6:17And I want to encourage you by directing you to this principle.
6:21One who is faithful and very little is also faithful and much.
6:26Have you been faithful with what God has presented before you now?
6:32Before we look down the road, down the lawn to this big grandiose things,
6:36I wanna be this.
6:38I wanna write movies.
6:39I wanna do other things, you know?
6:41What are we doing with God that's put before us right now?
6:44You know, how do we manage our time?
6:46How do we utilize our resources?
6:47How do we interact with people now?
6:50We can often, in view of having these long-term projections
6:56or these big ideas fail to recognize
6:59God requires faithfulness in the little.
7:01God requires faithfulness where we are right now.
7:04And notice that a danger say,
7:06if you're faithful a little, he'll give you much.
7:08Look at the corollary, attended polar opposite
7:12in the same verse.
7:13One who is faithful and very little
7:15is also faithful and much.
7:17and one who is dishonest in the very little.
7:20It's also dishonest in much.
7:23Notice that in the text,
7:25because it's not just showing
7:27on what we might describe as a positive side,
7:28it also shows the negative side,
7:31which the Lord is showing.
7:31If you're wondering, man, why haven't I got that promotion?
7:34Why haven't I moved in this direction?
7:35Why haven't I gotten this place?
7:36Could it be that God has identified,
7:39wait a minute, you've been dishonest and little,
7:42that if I were to get you access to a larger platform
7:46or to give you more expansive influence,
7:48more access to my people,
7:50your influence at that stage
7:52would be a continuum carrying over
7:54of what you're operating in at the earlier stage.
7:59Faithfulness and a little,
8:01what it was faithful with little is also
8:03will be faithful and much.
8:04But what was dishonest with little,
8:07the Lord is explaining is also dishonest and much.
8:11So then what do we do in this scenario?
8:13We don't become overwhelmed and the combination,
8:16Oh, yeah, oh, oh that we wog with the money grubs.
8:20We simply go to the Lord and say, Lord, you're right.
8:25Lord, I repent.
8:27Lord, I confess to you that you're right, I repent.
8:30And I ask you to give me the grace that is needed
8:33to empower me to be faithful and little.
8:38That is one of the things that is often missed.
8:42You know, I'll never forget,
8:43I tell the story sometime.
8:44And I know exactly now with the Lord working in me.
8:49And I didn't know what he was working in me then,
8:52but I'll never forget when I was in college,
8:55there was a time when, you know, at my college,
8:58I'm pretty sure it's like this at other colleges,
9:00but in my college, the most populous time
9:03in our cafeteria was that lunch time, you know.
9:06And I'm walking with the Lord, I'm growing with the Lord,
9:08I started a prayer meeting on campus early in the morning,
9:11my friends from college still laughing me.
9:12He wanna get up early in the morning, man.
9:14We in college, who wants to wake up early in the morning?
9:16The 6 a.m. preemie.
9:17But man, the Lord stirred my heart and encouraged me
9:22to start picking up the trash outside of the cafeteria
9:24before lunchtime, at lunchtime, I'm sorry.
9:27At the time, when I sensed the Lord leading me
9:31in that direction, I had no clue why the Lord
9:34would want me to do that.
9:37And I came with all kind excuses.
9:39Oh Lord, I mean, there's this staff that's paid
9:42I was trying to pick up trash and, man, Lord,
9:45why, why, I gotta be a lunchtime?
9:46And I was trying to bargain with the Lord
9:47because, you know, I was early rise,
9:48I would go to breakfast.
9:49Can I do it at breakfast time?
9:50You know, breakfast, what does many people
9:52coming to the cafeteria?
9:56But no, the Lord wanted me to pick up trash
9:58outside of the cafeteria at lunchtime.
10:02And after wrestling with it for a while,
10:03man, I submitted myself to the Lord to do that.
10:06And I started doing it, you know.
10:08People saw it like,
10:09he's trying to be the janitor.
10:11Why, why are you picking up trash?
10:13And they said something I said to the Lord.
10:15that people that they pay to do this.
10:16Why are you picking up the trash?
10:18But they didn't know what God was doing with me
10:20on the other end after this.
10:22And when it was happening, I didn't know what God was doing.
10:25But after I'd done it for a while,
10:28let me explain something else to you.
10:30Man, that became one of the highlights of my day.
10:32It became such a sweet time of worshiping the Lord.
10:35I got to the place where I enjoyed picking up the trash.
10:39I would be singing worshiping the Lord, singing songs,
10:44And it just became a joyous, joyous, joyous time in my life at that particular stage in my life that I know on the other end,
10:53in all kinds of things in me inviting me to obey Him in small things, inviting me to engage in demonstrable things that would help to obliterate pride or any remnants of pride.
11:06And I'm going to just tell you very simply, the scripture tells us that God opposes the proud.
11:11there will never be a person who will ever be effective in God's economy who allows pride to persist.
11:18Pride causes you to be an opponent of God. The Lord says he opposes the proud but gives grace
11:26to the humble. So if any desires to have any benefit to the Lord, pride must die. It's not optional.
11:34You know, set up as one of the things that God was doing to enable the funeral for pride in my life.
11:41You know, but it became a time of rejoicing a sweet time just between the Lord and myself.
11:46Nobody else knew what was going on, but it was something that the Lord was doing in me that I now see
11:52as a little thing that God was doing in my life. And it was one of the things that laid a foundation
11:58for him to be able to move me to other things. And frankly, I can't take creative
12:02anything that God has done in my life because when I first got presented with the notion of going to
12:06law school, I didn't want to go. I was tired of going to school. You know, and I've told you guys
12:11story before radio and I wasn't even anywhere on my radar. My wife was the first person to say,
12:15if you need to go on a radio and I was like, for what? I don't need to be on a radio. That's what I do.
12:19I like. But the Lord had other things in mind, but this principle is true. This is one that applies
12:27across the board to all of us. One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much. And one
12:34One who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.
12:43Often we see when people who are corrupt at higher levels,
12:46you can rest assured that corruption didn't just start
12:48at higher levels.
12:50There was corruption evident in their hearts
12:53before they ever hit a stage where the corruption
12:55could be exposed on a broader level.
12:57Then verse 17,
12:58if then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth,
13:02who will entrust you, entrust to you the true riches?
13:06It's amazing that Jesus refers to unrighteous wealth
13:10and makes a contrast and say,
13:12that's not even true riches.
13:13Heh heh heh heh.
13:15If you're not even a good steward with financial matters,
13:18how can you be a good steward in what Jesus calls true?
13:23Excuse me, true riches.
13:25Those who think God is not concerned
13:28with how you manage finances,
13:30you're woefully mistaken.
13:32And in this life, because we utilize finances
13:34with so many different things,
13:36I'll say it another way that when Jesus says,
13:38where man's treasure is, that's where his heart is also.
13:41How do you use the resources God has given you now?
13:45If we're not managing what God has already provided for us,
13:47we are foolhardily foolhardy to expect God
13:51to provide more resources for us to mismanage.
13:54So instead of yearning, desire, and craving,
13:56all I need is more money.
13:58That's all I need, Jeff, a little bit more money.
14:00No, what we need is to manage what God has already provided for us.
14:04And if you have not been, verse 12,
14:05If you've not been faithful in that, which is another's, who will give you that, which
14:10is your own?
14:11You want to be an entrepreneur, you want to run your own business, but you're still in time
14:15on the job you have right now.
14:17You're not faithful in working on somebody else's job where you are right now.
14:21It would be also fool harder to expect that to give you your own because you're not even
14:25a good steward or where you are, laboring so to speak in another person's venue.
14:30The simple principle that I want to underscore and emphasize is what verse 10 says.
14:36One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much.
14:41And one who is dishonest in very little is also dishonest in much.
14:47May I challenge you and encourage you to look at the little in your life and around your
14:53life and exercise faithfulness there by the grace of Jesus Christ.
14:58When Psalm 94 was written, God's people faced evil doers who killed even widows and orphans.
15:07Yet the Psalmist wrote, When my anxious thoughts multiply within me, Your constellations delight
15:12my soul.
15:14Remembering who the Lord is often comforts troubled hearts.
15:17We can find great comfort in His past kindnesses, and Sunday sermon, and good counsel and in
15:23Scripture.
15:25For more encouragement, read, calming and anxious heart on the stan.net.
15:30Shining light into the darkness, this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
15:41Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III here and I am delighted and honored,
15:45frankly, to have on the program a man who I deem to be a general, frankly, in the Christian
15:51faith whose uses life, who God is throughout his life, use him to accomplish an amazing,
15:56amazing things which he's continuing to do today.
16:00I guess, and I'll give you a little bit of some of the things he's accomplished is the founder
16:04of the Home School Legal Defense Association, as well as the founder of Patrick Henry College.
16:10He graduated from Western Washington State College, Magna Cum Laude with a bachelor's degree
16:13in political science, followed by a Jewish doctor from Gonzaga University with honors.
16:18He earned an LLM in public international law with honors from the University of London.
16:22He has argued before the appellate courts of 13 states, eight federal circuit courts of
16:27appeals, the United States Supreme Court where in 2018, he successfully argued the case styled
16:32Nifla versus Becerra and many of you listening to show will remember because that was a case
16:37in which simply put murder merchants were trying to force pro-life pregnancy resource
16:42centers to advertise for murdering facilities for children.
16:46And thanks to be to God that our guests helped to protect the sanctative human life in that
16:50case before the US Supreme Court.
16:52He's testified many times before the United States House of Representatives and the U.S.
16:56Senate.
16:57He was an executive committee member of the Coalition for the Free Exercise of Religion that
17:01successfully lobbied Congress for the passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993.
17:07He served as president and CEO for Alliance Defending Freedom from 2017 to 2022.
17:11He's the author of over 15 books, as well as law review articles and other scholarly and
17:16popular articles.
17:18He and his lovely wife, Vicky, have 10 children, numerous grandchildren, and he currently serves
17:23as general counsel for the National Religious Broadcasters.
17:26My guest is none other than Mike Ferris.
17:29Mike, thank you for joining me here on the program.
17:32It was great to be with you, my friend.
17:33I really appreciate it.
17:35Oh, the pleasure is mine.
17:36And I'm truly excited about this conversation because I believe it'll be a blessing to our
17:40audience here because we've been talking for quite some time about the importance in our
17:45responsibilities, believers to be salt and light,
17:47and just some of the things that I ran through,
17:49and I know that's not everything you've accomplished,
17:51but it's a pretty impressive thing
17:53that God has done in you and through your life,
17:56and I just wanted to have a conversation with you about that,
17:58and I wanna start in a place that might not seem obvious,
18:03but simply asking how the Lord drew you to himself
18:06to where you placed your confidence in him for saving faith.
18:12Sure, well, it starts with my parents.
18:16I was born in Arkansas, and my dad was a school teacher,
18:20a public school teacher.
18:21And we moved from Arkansas to Washington State
18:24when I was three.
18:26And that my dad got hired in the summer
18:29to be a teacher starting in September.
18:31And the school district allowed a traveling evangelist
18:37to rent a high school auditorium.
18:38My dad had been given a job as a summer janitor.
18:42during the, until the school started,
18:45to up our family stay afloat.
18:48And this evangelist needed somebody,
18:51a janitor would be on duty,
18:52and the head janitor was a Christian,
18:54figured out my dad wasn't,
18:55and I signed my dad to be the janitor on duty,
18:59with the hope he'd get saved.
19:00And that's what happened.
19:01The first night my dad got saved,
19:03on the third night my mom got saved,
19:06and I was raised in the home of new on fire believers.
19:09And we went to church every Sunday,
19:11In fact, my mom is still a member of the same church that head janitor was a member of back
19:15in 1954.
19:16My dad passed away about 10 years ago.
19:21And so I accepted Christ one Sunday after church.
19:25When I was six years old, my sister came to my dad and told him that she needed to accept
19:33Christ as her savior.
19:34And I was hiding behind the couch listening to her pray with my dad.
19:39when they were done, I came out from behind the couch
19:41and said that I want to get saved too.
19:42And he led me to Christ.
19:44And so that was on November 9th, 1957.
19:47Wow, wow.
19:49We can't overstate the importance of parents
19:54and their contributions in shaping really the eternal destiny
19:57of their children.
19:58And that would start it then with your father and your parents
20:02and culminating in you coming to faith in Christ Jesus
20:05has now set the course for scores of people like myself
20:08who've been a beneficiary of what God has done through you
20:10because there are lots of things by way of freedoms
20:13for home-based discipleship, home education
20:15that are available to us that had not been available
20:18for quite some time in our nation.
20:20And you moved ultimately to found
20:22the Home School Legal Defense Association.
20:25What chain of events led you to understand the significance
20:29of parents influencing their children,
20:31and significantly enough to use your legal acumen
20:34to fight for the freedom of American parents to do that?
20:39Well, again, my dad is a part of the story.
20:42He was a public school teacher and eventually became a principal.
20:47And he hated what the ACLU was doing to schools.
20:53And he was encouraging me to become a lawyer for school districts so that I could fight
20:58against the influences of the ACLU.
21:02Well, by the time I got through law school, it was always interesting to education law
21:08and in all that area, the time I got through law school,
21:12that's the majority of school districts in the country
21:15or on the same philosophical side as the ACLU.
21:18And my wife and I decided very early
21:21in when our oldest child was like two or three
21:26that we were going to pursue Christian education.
21:28And then when our oldest daughter was
21:33in a Christian school in the first grade,
21:35we first heard of home schooling
21:37And we decided to homeschool our children
21:40instead of using Christian schools,
21:42which we think well of Christian schools,
21:43we just thought homeschooling was a better choice for us.
21:46And so I quickly found out when the word spread
21:53that there's this lawyer with this constitutional background
21:56and education interest homeschooling his own kids
21:59that started getting inundated with requests
22:02to help other homeschool families with their legal problems.
22:06and I figure out real quickly, this is a great way to go broke,
22:09because when people say they want a Christian lawyer,
22:11but they really want us a free lawyer.
22:13And so I figured out that if we had people pay just a little bit,
22:22basically become a union for homeschoolers.
22:25You touch one of us, we all come to fight.
22:27And so the idea was it was $60 a year, membership 41 years ago,
22:37When we started it and you know, it's now a little it's a little more than that but not a lot
22:42It means like a hundred and ten or something like that. I forget the fact about but the
22:47You know, there's now a hundred thousand families that are members of homeschooled events Association
22:52But it was basically the idea we stand together fight together and our freedoms will rise
22:56So that was that was the idea that the Lord gave me and it's worked out very very well
23:01And I would have to say I agree would you just provide for the audience?
23:05you're just kind of a snapshot of the hostility that existed
23:10governmentally and otherwise against the notion of homeschooling
23:13that led to some of the landmark cases that help secure the freedoms that we
23:17enjoy generally across our country today.
23:21Well, even though the statutes in about three or four states were fairly
23:26friendly, the homeschooling, when we started HSLD in 1983,
23:31in a functional sense, if you go ask the attorney general
23:36of the all 50 states, is it legal to homeschool your kids?
23:39All 50 would have said no.
23:42And we thought, of course,
23:44the Constitution and the United States
23:45had a different answer to that question.
23:47Yeah, I think so.
23:48But the court, to agree to that,
23:51was, you know, didn't happen overnight.
23:53And so the school districts were motivated,
23:58in part by just flat out money.
24:00And the first case I ever actually had,
24:04you know, a full on legal confrontation about was with the school district in Northern California
24:10where it was fairly rural district and the family had four or five kids, I don't know
24:14exactly number, but he said, look at those kids are worth, you know, he gave me a number
24:18like $5,500 each to our budget and I'm not going to lose that money.
24:23We're coming after the family and we were successful in prevailing in that case, but
24:30money is certainly an issue.
24:32The ability to indoctrinate kids in the worldview of the public school system, which at best
24:38is the great religion of hodgepodge, and at worst is the woke etiology that we see in full
24:44blown today that it's progressive socialism with sexual immorality all thrown together.
24:51So there's a desire to indoctrinate kids.
24:54That's present in some instances and in some districts among some leaders.
24:58But the net effect is that's what's happening, the vast majority of situations in public schools.
25:04And you know, there's just the idea that if parents can do this, why do we need all these
25:13professionals running around doing it? So it's kind of an insult to their professionalism that
25:18homeschooling parents can have just as good or better results. In a sense, and to some degree in
25:25defense of those teachers who feel a little bit insulted by that, you know, you give those
25:32parents two or three kids to teach, or you can give those school teachers two or three
25:37kids to teach, those kids will do really pretty well almost always.
25:42The one-on-one kind of instruction or very small group instruction is a very efficient
25:48way to learn.
25:49I mean, if you want to learn how to play tennis, take a private lesson.
25:51You take a group lesson with 30 people, you're not going to learn as well.
25:55And the teacher can spend more time, can make sure that you know every problem a public school
26:00teacher or even a Christian school teacher can't make sure that every single kid in the class
26:06knows the right way to find the answer to every single math problem.
26:09Well, Mom, teacher kids at home, she can make sure that they do.
26:13And so the learning gaps are a lot less.
26:16So there's so many things that can be said for why it's efficient.
26:20But the teachers sometimes get a little jealous of that.
26:25So there's a variety of motives, but I think money and ideology are the big two without
26:30any doubt.
26:31And how does the concept of the biblical responsibility for parents to disciple our
26:38children?
26:39How did that factor in, if at all, in your decision to found and ultimately by God's grace
26:45expand, HSLDA?
26:48Well, it was central to why we homeschooled our children.
26:51You know, the one sentence that I took away from the man that I first heard talk about
26:59homeschooling his name was Raymond Moore, was that children get their values from the
27:03people they spend the majority of their time with.
27:06If you spend a majority of your time with your peers, you get their values from their
27:08peers, you spend a majority of time with your parents, you get your values from their parents.
27:13And our oldest daughter was in the Christian school in the first grade, and we saw her
27:17paying way too much attention to what other first graders thought about life.
27:21And we just had the audacity of believe, A, that we were smarter than six year olds,
27:27and that we would be better for her.
27:30But down deep in the fundamental answer is God told us that it's our job to raise our
27:37children and their journey of the Lord.
27:39And if the functioning of schools transfers the effectiveness of that to others, then we
27:49are breaching our duty.
27:53We have not only the duty to do it, I believe that we had the duty to do it in the very best
27:58way possible.
27:59And the very best way possible was to make sure that our kids spend the majority of their
28:03time with us and with their family.
28:07parents in particular, but their brothers and sisters as well.
28:10Now that doesn't mean we hit our kids. Our kids were pretty normal kids
28:14after 3 o'clock. They were in sports, and one daughter really got into ballet,
28:19and others did... Well, Alana, we had one boy and boy scouts for like a year,
28:28but it didn't go far. But a lot of Alana, a lot of gymnastics, that kind of thing,
28:34play with kids in the neighborhood. Our kids were pretty normal kids after 3 o'clock.
28:39But that core workday, if you will, for the child was spent with their family, getting their values from their family.
28:46And as a result of that, after 33 years of homeschooling, every single one of our 31 grandchildren
28:53have been or will be homeschooled. And so the Lord has really clearly blessed that.
29:02that and it's central. Now, the operating philosophy of HSLDA was God gave these kids
29:11to these parents and our duty was to protect that. Even if we didn't agree with the way,
29:15I've defended people with all kinds of religious beliefs or no religious beliefs at all because God
29:22gave them those kids. It's not my job, it's not the government's job to get between the parents
29:29in those kids. Now do I wish that the parents would accept Christ and raise their kids in
29:36biblical education? Yes, and I have led clients to Christ in the course of defending them.
29:43But from a legal perspective and a philosophical perspective, we operated that the God given
29:51right of parents applies to all parents, not just parents that I agree with their theology.
29:55Yeah, understood, understood.
29:57Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
29:59And from the 1983 founding of HSLDA, you then, I believe, the timeline in 1997 started an
30:05organization called the National Christian Forensics and Communications Association.
30:10We have about two minutes to start this part of the conversation, but would you just explain
30:15a little bit about what was the impetus for that particular initiative?
30:21Well, in the desire to enrich homeschooling, I thought that kids would benefit from high
30:28school debate.
30:30I was in high school debater and I debated in college and did my best in law school in
30:37court.
30:38But in my daughter, I convinced my oldest daughter, Christie, to get involved in collegiate
30:45debate, which she did at Cedarville University, where she went to school and graduated from.
30:50you know, this is before PhD existed,
30:52which I still think very highly of Cedarville.
30:55And so I actually cast Christie
31:00with starting what became NCFCH.
31:02She's still on the board,
31:05I think she's the chairman of the board currently,
31:07of NCFCH all these years later,
31:10but it was a debate league for home schoolers
31:12and it is blossomed.
31:14And I like to say that of all the things that I've started,
31:17I think I've started 14 things.
31:19of all the things I started,
31:21the biggest benefit for the least amount
31:23of personal work that I did is NCFCA.
31:26The benefit to kids has been tremendous,
31:30but it was my idea, and I got it going,
31:33but other people did the majority of the work.
31:35I kind of delegated responsibilities
31:38and was able to get it going.
31:40And Lord has blessed it tremendously.
31:43Now, if I heard you right, is Kristy's your daughter?
31:46Yeah, Kristy's my daughter.
31:47I did not know that.
31:49I did not know that.
31:50For those of you listening, NCFCA,
31:53the website is ncfca.org.
31:55It's a tremendous speech and debate organization
31:59where you have competitions, national tournaments,
32:01the whole nine that's available.
32:04I'd hurlheartedly encourage you to go to ncfca.org
32:06to get more information about it
32:08and go to hslda.org to get more information
32:11about HSLDA.
32:12I've talked to you guys a lot about HSLDA.
32:15It is a wonderful resource for families
32:17considering homeschooling.
32:18and for those who are homeschooling, if you are,
32:21you must become an HSLD8 member,
32:24more when Mike Ferris on the other side of the break.
32:31Are you tired of all the un-Christ-like stuff
32:33out there today?
32:35Great.
32:35I am too.
32:36But let's talk about something else.
32:38Let's talk about the good, Christ-affirming resources,
32:42educational material, and family entertainment
32:45available at the AFA Resource Center.
32:48From encouraging and conversation starters, shirts,
32:50sweatshirts to good Christian books by your very own AFA staff.
32:55At the AFA Resource Center, you can even find Christian documentaries and lesson plans with
33:00DVDs like The God Who Speaks and Materials from the AFA Cultural Institute.
33:05The Resource Center is a great place for materials for you, your friends, or your church.
33:10But really, if you're tired of unsubstantial, un-Christlike stuff, you should check out the
33:16the Resource Center. Find it at resources.afa.net.
33:21That's resources.afa.net.
33:24Don't settle for a distracted culture,
33:27but set your mind on things above.
33:34The Hamilton Quarter podcast
33:36and one-minute common terrors are available at
33:38eafr.net back to the Hamilton Corner
33:42on American Family Radio.
33:44Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner.
33:46My guest is Mike Ferris, current general counsel
33:49for National Religious Broadcast Association,
33:52previous president and CEO of Alliance of Fending Freedom,
33:56founder of HSLDA, founder of Patrick Henry College,
34:00which is what I'd like to talk about next,
34:02because in 1997, I'm just highlighting a few of the things
34:06that Mike Ferris has participated in, has initiated.
34:11And I think it's edifying for all of us to review these things.
34:14And I hope you're enjoying this conversation
34:15as much as I am.
34:17but in two thousand mike you found it patrick henry college
34:21uh... what
34:22moved you to do that not many people familiar with this
34:25this anti-federalist patriot
34:28uh... uh... who's uh... uh... uh... considerable but was in the main history
34:33he he's a great guy and there's there's a new
34:35a biography uh... by many john meet you
34:39of patrick henry
34:40that is fabulous
34:42uh... and i highly recommend it so uh... he he people
34:46historians currently calling the demagogue
34:48george washington didn't think so george washington offered him a seat on the
34:51supreme court
34:52he would be very much of admire patrick and reneighward
34:56they were close
34:57uh...
34:59in any event uh...
35:01i
35:03as the president of
35:05each of the old yay invited a man named larry berkett
35:09to be a speaker
35:10for each of the old days annual conference
35:13that we put on for state home school leaders and other home school leaders in the middle
35:17cross the country.
35:19And we asked his staff, if ahead of time he would be willing to meet with his stance or
35:27some financial questions and they said that he wouldn't.
35:29So, as he was walking in the room, I kind of inferred from his body language that he thought,
35:35here I am, another Christianization deep in debt and they're asking me for help to get
35:40out of debt.
35:41I said, Mr. Kett, we've been pretty frugal over the last 17, 18 years that we've been in
35:47existence.
35:48We've saved X number of millions of dollars and we don't know what we're supposed to do
35:51with it.
35:52And his count has changed and we asked him, you know, what was the proper reserve, you know,
35:58how much should we keep in their savings account for and how should we, you know, invest that
36:02if at all.
36:04And he gave us advice about that.
36:06And it was clear we had more money than we needed for a proper savings account for HSLDA.
36:12And so I said, so what do we do with the rest of this money?
36:15And he said, God didn't give you this money to sit on it.
36:18He gave you the money to serve the people he's called you to serve.
36:22And so we had a board meeting subsequent to that a couple of minutes later where the sole
36:28issue on the agenda was how can we serve the homeschooling community in general specifically
36:35and Christians in general in a way that other people won't be able to pull off.
36:39And we did a few things with it.
36:42We gave a grant to a group helping families with children with disabilities who were homeschooling,
36:47but we still had a good amount of money left.
36:52And so I had this idea of Patrick Henry College that I pitched to the board, and we went with
36:57it.
36:58We felt that that's what God wanted us to do after prayer and a lot of discussion, lots
37:03of discussion.
37:04And so, and the, the, what we were, the impetus for me thinking that was I was getting questions
37:13from members of Congress regularly, say, Mike, do you have a Sharp homeschool kid that I can
37:18get away staff?
37:19And I knew they didn't want a 14 year old.
37:22And so, I, and I'd seen, I've been around Congress enough to know that there were a lot
37:28of kids that you would think would be conservative.
37:31They'll go to colleges and have a reputation for being Christian.
37:35They were up on the hill and they were really far to the left of the memory of Congress that they were working for.
37:40I got to go to the staff meetings and I see what they really thought.
37:45And so I knew there was a need there.
37:49And then Home Sleeve Families kept asking me for college recommendations.
37:55And sometimes I could tell them, this is a good school to consider what your child's interested in.
38:00But far too often, I was having to say,
38:03I don't think there is a college like that.
38:06People looking for love of the American founding,
38:10first of all, they wanted a solid Bible-believing college
38:13that was no compromise.
38:14That was the starting point.
38:16But above that, they wanted to have something
38:21that was honored the American founding,
38:23something that honored the apprenticeship method
38:25of education and classical kind of orientation,
38:29same kind of education the founders had themselves.
38:33And so I put those components together,
38:38and that was the formula for Patrick Henry College,
38:41and still is the formula for Patrick Henry College.
38:43And the Lord has blessed it with great success.
38:46It's very still very small,
38:48about 430, 440 stews, something like that right now.
38:52But it's highly, highly successful in many spheres, especially in training people to go
39:01to law school.
39:02And we've had, I think we've just had our seventh Supreme Court Court get hired, which
39:10is, you know, there's no college of our size in the history of the world that has done
39:15that.
39:16That's just God's blessing.
39:17Our graduates have now argued, I think, about a half a dozen cases in the Supreme Court,
39:22including a very major victory on the issue of stopping the abuse by federal agencies,
39:31of just making up law from scratch. The solicitor general of West Virginia,
39:34Lindsey C., who moves graduate of the PhD when I coached her in moot court,
39:40she argued and won that case in the Supreme Court in the United States.
39:43So we had a tremendous effect in that area.
39:46So it's been a great 24 years that the college has been going out,
39:5225, I guess, and this is a choice this year.
39:55Wow, that's amazing.
39:56And I guess I should have said this early.
39:57I think a lot of people know this, but I
39:59had the honor when you invited me to join the board of HSLDA,
40:05of which I was already a member when you invited me to join the board.
40:08And I happily accepted that invitation.
40:11So I've been on the board there for a little bit of time.
40:13And we have the first member of my local church
40:17who is a student currently, a freshman at PhD.
40:20And just a wonderful visit to him recently at PhD.
40:24And so from there, in light of all the work
40:27that you had done, you joined Alliance Defending Freedom
40:32as its CEO and president.
40:34Would you share a little bit how that came out?
40:39Well, I had gotten to a stage of life
40:43where I had handed off the presidency of the college,
40:46of HSLDA, and I'd also sort of a group called
40:50the Convention of States.
40:52And so I was basically a senior consultant
40:55for both all three of those organizations,
40:59and which was really pretty good
41:01because they didn't have to go to too many meetings,
41:03you know, unless I wanted to.
41:04It was great.
41:06But I just felt that I wasn't at my highest
41:11and best use by just kind of consulting.
41:16And so the search firm that was hired by ADF,
41:23knocked on my door and asked me to apply to be the CEO.
41:28And I loved ADF, I've known about it from, well,
41:32from day one, I was actually interviewed by them
41:35not to be the first CEO, but to give advice to the first CEO.
41:40Because I was running HSLBA, which is one of the few
41:42Christian legal organizations in the country at the time.
41:45And so I've known about it from the beginning,
41:48and highly respected it.
41:49And so I applied.
41:51And I guess about 300 people applied.
41:53And the Lord and the Board picked me.
41:58And it was a great, great honor to be there.
42:02We did, of course, hundreds of cases.
42:05I was five years in 10 months.
42:08I rounded it to six years that I was the CEO.
42:11And the, including, we had 14 cases in the Supreme Court,
42:17and we won 13 of those cases while I was there,
42:20one of which, the NIFA case, I argued myself.
42:23We did the Masterpiece Case Shop case.
42:24We were also co-counciled,
42:27the Mississippian Dobbs versus Jackson Williams Health,
42:32and so the case that reverse or reverse is Wade,
42:34And ADF wrote the law for Mississippi legislators that became the challenge point.
42:41And so we were deeply, deeply involved in that.
42:44So that was one of the honors in my life to be on the team.
42:46I was leading the team.
42:47I wasn't day to day in litigation.
42:51But I led the team that helped reverse, reverse his way.
42:55So it was a great honor and privilege to be with ADF.
42:59And I was still a fabulous organization.
43:02and again in full disclosure,
43:03I'm also an allied attorney with ADF.
43:05So it's an organization that I greatly appreciate.
43:08You have the right pedigree.
43:10And just to tell your audience,
43:12as soon as I heard you speak at NRB,
43:15didn't really know you before that.
43:17And I was blown away.
43:19And I thought, here's a young version of me.
43:23I mean, actually a little more eloquent than me.
43:26So I just, you know, I, I, I,
43:29it's a quick thing for me to say,
43:32I want Abraham to be on our board at HSLBA.
43:35So, you know, I just, you know, was thrilled with,
43:39with what I heard from you and everything I've gotten to know since then.
43:43It's just, you know, you're just one of God's up-and-coming people,
43:46and I just, I think the world of what you're doing and who you are
43:49and what you believe and how you communicate.
43:52It's it's it's fun to get to know you through working at HSL together on the board
43:58Oh, the glory to God is all I can say and I know you and I both know what we're talking about for those who may not know
44:04Just would you just share briefly? What is in our be in the event that you mentioned is a convention that in our be hosts?
44:09Annually would you just explain a little bit of what that is?
44:12Sure National Religious Broadcasters is an association of groups like American family radio, which wouldn't
44:18Rick and family is one of the biggest members of NRB.
44:23They get together and their core purpose is to protect the freedom of Christian broadcasting.
44:32And so this is kind of a retirement job for me.
44:35I work half time as a general counsel and I was on the board of NRB and when I was deciding
44:42to retire from ADF, I asked the president of NRB
44:47if he'd be interested in a part-time general counsel,
44:51and he said, well, if it's you, then yes,
44:53I don't know anybody else I'd say that too,
44:55but I think you could do it part-time.
44:57And so I work half-time for NRB as your general counsel,
45:00and mostly right amicus briefs,
45:03but I'm litigating one case as lead counsel right now
45:06against the internal revenue service,
45:08challenging the constitutionality of the rule
45:10that nonprofits can't say what they want to say
45:12about candidates. So that's going to be hitting the fan here real quickly, the IRS through
45:20the U.S. Justice Department is going to move to dismiss our case as we expected on just before
45:27Christmas. And I expect to be arguing that in February or so. But NRB has this annual convention
45:35where you were one of our keynote speakers a couple of years ago. And President Trump
45:41was keynote speaker the year after you.
45:45So you were the warm-up act for President Trump.
45:48And we invited all the candidates from both parties
45:53to speak as a nonprofit we needed to at the time.
45:56And President Trump was the only one that accepted.
46:00But it's a major event for Christian broadcasters,
46:04for encouragement, for legal protection,
46:07learning best practices and it's just uh...
46:10uh... in our busy greater realization
46:13has been doing uh... good for a lot of it
46:15core principle
46:16preserve the freedom for christian broadcasting
46:19now all of the conversation we had to this point i wanted to have
46:23to build to this particular portion of our conversation you made a statement
46:26about your highest and best use that was
46:29uh... that your kind of guiding principal to let you to predict it to
46:32ultimately
46:33join the process become CEO of ADF,
46:36President CEO of Alliance of Ending Freedom.
46:39Why is it important for us as Christians
46:41to seek our highest and best use on this side of eternity?
46:49Well, there was a story I heard when I was a boy
46:54about Gail Moody and he was told as a young man,
47:00the world is yet to see what can happen
47:04when someone is fully yielded,
47:07when a man is fully yielded to God,
47:09will do anything that God tells him to do.
47:12And DL Moody said, by the grace of God,
47:15I'll be that man.
47:17And when I was, heard that story when I was eight or nine
47:20years old, I said the same thing.
47:22And I think that if we are going to be fully yielded to God
47:27and that means we gotta do our best.
47:31That's just by definition,
47:33yielded to God is, you know, it's our best to finding God's framework.
47:38So we can see it a little more precisely by saying, to do God's best.
47:43What's the best thing that God wants us to do?
47:46And so God gives us each talents, and some people are very talented
47:52in fixing cars and building buildings and building other things.
47:57And, you know, computers, I don't have any of those talents.
48:01And so, how are God's giftings are correlate,
48:10pretty strongly, with God's leanings, how are you?
48:14And but he wants you to be your best.
48:17God didn't tell us to be mediocre in anything that we do.
48:21And so it doesn't mean that we're striving
48:25and all those things, it just means
48:27being working diligently as if we're working for God,
48:31because we are.
48:32You know, it's not a pretense, it's the reality.
48:35And if we're working for God, we want to seek, we don't want to waste time by doing something
48:41that's less than what he wants us to do.
48:45But you know, some people, especially young people, can I hear stories like mine and many
48:50others that, you know, they want to jump from zero to what I'm doing when I'm 73 years old.
48:58And it doesn't work that way.
49:01And the real story of my life is if you're faithful in the little thing, God will give
49:05you a chance to be faithful in the bigger thing.
49:10The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
49:14Family Association or American Family Radio.

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