Guest Host, Alex McFarland, is joined by Architect and Movie Producer, Raymond Harris

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:23Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:33A very well-known verse that I think about so much,
12. 0:36and I really think all Christians should really prioritize
13. 0:39this verse is Matthew 6, 33, that says,
14. 0:42seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness,
15. 0:46and all these other things will be added unto you.
16. 0:49Hi, Alex McFarland here.
17. 0:50We've got a very special show today.
18. 0:51In fact, I think a program that potentially
19. 0:54could be life-changing for a lot of people,
20. 0:56and I'll introduce our guest to talk with us about stewardship
21. 1:01and God's Kingdom here in a moment,
22. 1:03but I want to welcome everybody to the Hamilton Corner
23. 1:06on the American Family Radio Network,
24. 1:07Alex McFarland here.
25. 1:09Very honored to be sitting in for attorney, pastor,
26. 1:13broadcaster Abe Hamilton III.
27. 1:15If you recognize my voice,
28. 1:17it's probably from the show Exploring the Word,
29. 1:20which Bert Harper and I have had the privilege
30. 1:22of doing on the American Family Radio Network.
31. 1:24now for 15 years plus. And so we invite you to listen to exploring the word live Monday
32. 1:31through Friday. But on the Hamilton corner, we are so blessed to visit with just all kinds
33. 1:37of people, celebrities and people that maybe you haven't heard of, but nevertheless people
34. 1:44that are making an incredible impact for the kingdom of God in a variety of ways. And Raymond
35. 1:49Harris is one such individual. And he is an architect, but he is also a very successful
36. 1:57businessman in a number of fields of venture capitalists. He's participated in filmmaking
37. 2:03and really living out and proclaiming the gospel and the Great Commission in so many ways and
38. 2:11touching countless lives in the process. We're very honored to have him with us now. Raymond
39. 2:17and hear us welcome to the American Family Radio Network.
40. 2:20Thanks Alex, I appreciate the privilege of being with you this morning.
41. 2:24Well, a lot to talk about and we're going to talk about wealth and how God meets our needs
42. 2:32financially and talk about stewardship.
43. 2:34I want to hear a little bit about your journey.
44. 2:36As you and I were getting ready, we talked very, very briefly about architecture and that's
45. 2:43been your main career path hasn't it as an architect? Yes, I went to school to be an architect. I
46. 2:51started a firm about four years out of architecture school, which was quite unusual. Most guys have
47. 2:57to apprentice and work a little longer than that. I was anxious to get started a little early. So
48. 3:03at age 27, I started a firm. But prior to that, I was very involved in ministry and college. And
49. 3:10So I was counseled while I was in college to maybe go into the ministry.
50. 3:16And so I was given two choices, either go on staff with an organization or to go to seminary.
51. 3:22And I didn't like either one of those paths.
52. 3:25So I went in a third path, which was go to graduate school for architecture.
53. 3:29But you know, Alex, I kept looking in my rear-view mirror for the next 25 years,
54. 3:35wondering if I'd made the wrong turn.
55. 3:37I had practiced architecture, I was successful, but should I have gone into ministry?
56. 3:44And the Lord seemed to say quit looking through the rearview mirror, look through the windshield
57. 3:49of your life because you are on the street that you are supposed to be on, you are supposed
58. 3:53to be an architect.
59. 3:54And so what I finally realized is that God had created me not to be an architect, to be
60. 3:59as steward of his kingdom and architecture was simply the economic engine to be able
61. 4:03to do that.
62. 4:04You know, Raymond, I've had so many conversations of a similar nature with people.
63. 4:10And I would say, as an architect and in the business field, as a Christian, you are in
64. 4:17the ministry.
65. 4:18You were and present tense are in the ministry.
66. 4:21I've had a lot of successful businessmen that God has blessed, God has used them, and they
67. 4:29say, you know, should I leave what I'm doing and go preach?
68. 4:34and I said, my goodness, no, because you're in the ministry,
69. 4:41and isn't it true that in all of the engines that drive culture,
70. 4:47whether it's business or education or medicine or law
71. 4:52or building great families?
72. 4:54I mean, God's people are ministering, as long as they're being faithful
73. 5:00of what God has assigned them to do and equip them to do, every day for the Christian is
74. 5:07ministry, isn't it?
75. 5:09Yes, it is.
76. 5:10I think that God created us to do certain things in His Kingdom on Earth.
77. 5:15As long as we're faithful and listening to Him and doing them, I think we'll be successful.
78. 5:20I think that sometimes church and maybe Christian organizations elevate those that are full-time,
79. 5:27But we are all full time in the ministry, like you said.
80. 5:31It's very important to spread the gospel in what you do where you are.
81. 5:40And there's no one that can be a better witness for the Kingdom of God than when you're in
82. 5:46business.
83. 5:47And I've always said that you can have business leaders without ministry leaders, but you cannot
84. 5:53have ministry leaders without business leaders because ministry leaders can't survive without
85. 5:59the partnership of the business leader who actually supports them. So we're all in God's business.
86. 6:07I think there are silos that are created that are wrong and those silos are, there's wholly
87. 6:12in secular and it's all God's Kingdom. So we work in God's Kingdom wherever we are and I found that
88. 6:20I was a Trojan horse in the architectural profession by being a Christian and I could affect a lot of
89. 6:25people, not only contractors and vendors, construction workers, but also other design professionals and
90. 6:31consultants. And you know in the business world that is definitely a walk of faith isn't it?
91. 6:38Yeah I mean you know you have to be somewhat humble in how you present the gospel. If you go
92. 6:46go in blasting with both barrels, I think people get turned off. But if you can live
93. 6:50a life of integrity and then share what makes you good, I think it's very, very effective.
94. 6:58I've in fact, one of my best friends in college I led to the Lord just by working alongside
95. 7:04him in architecture school, an engineer, when I got out of school, I shared the gospel
96. 7:10with and he came to faith just because of the way I was working with him. So I've had
97. 7:15the privilege of being a part of people's salvation story just by being available and
98. 7:21talking about the Lord but doing a very natural and humble way. I think humility is a very
99. 7:27good way to share the gospel.
100. 7:30I'm glad you mentioned that we need to erase the sacred secular divide because really for
101. 7:37the Christian, at the privilege that 20 years ago of working on a project with Focus on
102. 7:43the family, it was called the Truth Project. Really the leader of that was a very dear colleague
103. 7:49and friend named Dr. Del Tackett. He would say this that there is no sacred secular divide
104. 7:57for the born-again believer. All of life is under the purvey of Jesus Christ, the Lord,
105. 8:03and we are the stewards. I think we need to remind every generation of that, wouldn't you agree?
106. 8:09Oh, absolutely. We all work in the Kingdom. God has created us for certain portions. It's
107. 8:17like I've always thought that the Army needs the Navy, the Navy needs the Air Force. And
108. 8:21so we're all needed in the Kingdom. And we definitely need gospel patrons to help support
109. 8:30people in the ministry. We need great pastors and teachers to lead us and to teach us, but
110. 8:36But that's not the only profession.
111. 8:38We all work together.
112. 8:39And like I said, I think it's a very important thing to realize that.
113. 8:44I also have realized that when we go to heaven, there's not going to be any not-for-profit
114. 8:48organizations.
115. 8:49But all gods.
116. 8:52So when we invest in the kingdom, we don't necessarily have to do it by giving it to a
117. 8:56not-for-profit.
118. 8:57We're giving it to a church.
119. 8:59You can invest in the kingdom by building for-profit businesses here on earth.
120. 9:04Amen. Amen. For those just tuning in, we're talking with Raymond Harris, who is a very successful
121. 9:11businessman and architect and has been involved in projects that you know about. We're going to
122. 9:17talk about some of these. But, you know, I've got to ask you about enduring wealth. What do you mean
123. 9:25by that term, enduring wealth? Enduring wealth to me is wealth that will transcend this world
124. 9:33into the next. And so I wrote a book called Enduring Wealth being rich in this world in
125. 9:40the next and it was a result of my struggle with figuring out what do you do with your
126. 9:46money. And it's not about money management, it's not necessarily about stewardship, it's
127. 9:52about the whole idea of how do we handle what God has entrusted to us. And some of us may
128. 9:58think that we're self-made, you know, we've worked hard and we've been successful, but it's really
129. 10:03God who gives us the ability to create wealth. And he gives us the ability and the wisdom to not
130. 10:11only create it, but to use that. And if we align ourselves with God's purposes for what he's given
131. 10:17us, then I think we will be successful in the world to come. And if we truly believe that we are
132. 10:23eternal creatures upon salvation you realize you'll never die then what's
133. 10:28important in eternity should be important on earth and so I look at wealth as
134. 10:34more than money it's the ability to create. Now money itself is just the
135. 10:41exhaust I think of wealth so a lot of people will try to say wealth and money
136. 10:48or the same thing, it's not necessarily true.
137. 10:51That is very true.
138. 10:54This is so important to talk about.
139. 10:55Forgive me if you're interrupting Raymond.
140. 10:57But as I travel, there are so many Christians that they love the Lord, they're bound for heaven,
141. 11:05but they do not understand how to handle money.
142. 11:09And they really do not understand these principles.
143. 11:12There's almost like this poverty means piety.
144. 11:15I don't believe that.
145. 11:17I totally agree with that.
146. 11:19I actually say that very thing.
147. 11:20I said, you know, that being poor is not being pious at all.
148. 11:27In fact, if God owns everything and he does, we're told that in numerous places, he owns
149. 11:34everything and he entrusted to us.
150. 11:38And if God owns everything and he gives us the ability to create wealth or actually gives
151. 11:44us money, then it is a good gift.
152. 11:47It's not a bad thing.
153. 11:49What we do with our wealth makes all the difference in the world, and wealth in and of itself is
154. 11:54neutral.
155. 11:56Some people will look at wealth as being evil, and it's not.
156. 12:01It's what we do with that money.
157. 12:03I think that wealth is entrusted to certain men to be the hands and feet of Christ on this
158. 12:08earth to take care of those who can't take care of themselves.
159. 12:12But those that do not use wealth for those purposes will stand before the Lord at some point and
160. 12:17have to give an accounting. And so I am scared to death of the accounting I'll have to give
161. 12:23before Jesus if I don't use His wealth in a manner that not only helps His kingdom but
162. 12:31promotes His kingdom and takes care of those people that can't take care of themselves.
163. 12:37You know, Jesus told us that we should be sheep and not goats. And in Matthew 25,
164. 12:42It was explained that the sheep are those that take care of those that cannot take care of themselves.
165. 12:48Amen. If you would, explain to us and delineate between wealth versus money.
166. 12:56Well, wealth is the ability to create something that has power. In other words, I look at it as wealth.
167. 13:06as you can have intellectual wealth, you can have creative wealth, you can have financial wealth.
168. 13:13There's different types of wealth. All those are to be used to build God's kingdom.
169. 13:18And so some of it may not have a lot of money, but has ability to do certain things that actually
170. 13:23build God's kingdom. And so that to me is really what wealth is about. As I said a minute ago,
171. 13:28money is simply the exhaustive wealth. Yeah, wealth and money can be confused as being the
172. 13:36same thing, but in my mind, money is kind of a funny thing. How do you define money? And
173. 13:43you know, in the old days, they defined it by gold and silver. And now we define it by the
174. 13:47bills we carry. And some of those bills we carry have a number on it. But the number is
175. 13:53irrelevant when inflation hits. For example, if you're in Africa and some countries, inflation
176. 13:59hits so hard that the money they had in Zimbabwe was useless. I mean, they carry the satchels
177. 14:05of money to go to dinner. But so money in and of itself gives us great freedom, but it can also
178. 14:12grab ahold of our heart. And it can put us tentacles into our heart where we begin to use that money
179. 14:21in ways that don't please the Lord. So do I, yeah,
180. 14:25Raymond forgive me, we've got a break quickly before we have to take our first break. What is your
181. 14:31website sir. I have a website it's called businessbythebook.com
182. 14:38Businessbythebook.com and that's a website which would have my books on it and a
183. 14:44little bit about me. We've got to take a break stay tuned more with Raymond Harris
184. 14:48on the American Family Radio Network don't go away we're back after this. The
185. 15:00God who speaks and of course he went beyond even the Old Testament law in the
186. 15:05someone on the mountain saying, you've heard it said,
187. 15:07you shall not commit adultery.
188. 15:09I will tell you that if you've lost it in your heart,
189. 15:11you have already committed adultery.
190. 15:13And then I realized something.
191. 15:15I can't believe less than Jesus believed,
192. 15:21and he had absolute confidence in the Old Testament.
193. 15:24The God who speaks at resources.afa.net.
194. 15:34Shining light into the darkness,
195. 15:37this is the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
196. 15:42Welcome back to the program.
197. 15:43You know, we're talking with Raymond Harris,
198. 15:45just having a wonderful conversation about our provider.
199. 15:50And Raymond, as I queue up this next segment,
200. 15:54for one thing, I want to thank you for being with us
201. 15:56on the Hamilton Corner,
202. 15:57but I want to thank you for what you do for God's kingdom.
203. 16:00You know, about a year ago,
204. 16:02I was on a program in Atlanta, Georgia,
205. 16:05and pretty quickly it became clear
206. 16:07that the person interviewing me was kind of hostile
207. 16:10to Christianity and he began to say the church does this and you know the church is bad.
208. 16:17Well, we had a brief break and I called up a couple of my friends that are in the nonprofit
209. 16:22world about philanthropic giving and I did some research before I went back to film my next
210. 16:27segment with this somewhat hostile interviewer. The bottom line is and think about this folks,
211. 16:34This is why it behooves us to be good stewards, to live and operate so that God would entrust
212. 16:43more to us.
213. 16:45And we're not owners, we're stewards.
214. 16:46But roughly $1.7 trillion a year comes out of the United States in terms of benevolent
215. 16:55giving.
216. 16:56And more than 80%, in fact, it's about 82% of all of the $1.7 trillion of benevolent giving
217. 17:06comes from what the world would call, quote, people of faith.
218. 17:10Now, it might be Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, but the food kitchens, the homeless shelters,
219. 17:19even around the world, Samaritan's Purse Compassion International, World Help World Vision, the
220. 17:26benevolent giving, in other words, the cup of cold water given in Christ's name, 80 plus percent of all of that giving comes from the wallets of Christians.
221. 17:40And so Raymond, when I did that research and I was prepping to kind of defend the church to this interviewer, it really warmed my heart to know that, and we could always do better.
222. 17:54But God's people are a very philanthropic people in general, aren't they?
223. 18:01Oh, absolutely.
224. 18:02I think that Jesus was very generous with us by saving us in spite of ourselves.
225. 18:09And I think He gives us His Spirit.
226. 18:13And inside of Spirit that generosity is the beginning of a relationship.
227. 18:21Once we realize how generous God has been with us, I think it's a natural thing for us
228. 18:25to want to be generous with others. But generosity is not something that just happens. It's something
229. 18:30that a person develops. And so I've said that if you're not generous when you're poor,
230. 18:37you're not going to be generous when you're rich. And so I think as we realize what Christ
231. 18:44has done for us, we want to do the same for others. And by that, sometimes giving money,
232. 18:50giving time, sometimes giving our abilities and what they call talents. Very important
233. 18:59in generosity. And generosity is just not about giving money. It's about giving your essence.
234. 19:05That's true. So I would say, yeah, go ahead, please.
235. 19:11Well, I was very blessed to grow up. My mother and dad were really big on tithing.
236. 19:19Yeah, and interestingly, even before they were walking with the Lord, looking back, and both
237. 19:26my parents are in heaven now, but I feel very blessed that from a young age, even before
238. 19:33our family really knew Jesus like we ultimately would, we were just taught to be tithers and
239. 19:42more.
240. 19:43And then my mother and dad, we were, for 68 years, we had an egg farm and a chicken business,
241. 19:50and that's a whole another story.
242. 19:52But my mom and dad really got a hold of their lives in their early 60s by watching Charles
243. 19:58Stanley on television.
244. 20:00And then I became a Christian when I was in college at age 21.
245. 20:05And I feel very blessed that I was raised to understand an ethic of giving.
246. 20:13And the Apostle Paul said, what do you have that you did not receive?
247. 20:19And the answer is nothing.
248. 20:20If we have anything, life, abilities, food on the table, because the dear Lord gave it
249. 20:26to us, isn't it?
250. 20:29How do we...
251. 20:30So I guess my question would be, how do we cultivate the mindset of stewardship rather
252. 20:34than ownership? Well, I would say first of all, if you look at the parable that Jesus taught
253. 20:42about the stewards, he taught the parable about three stewards. Those three stewards were actually
254. 20:50not donors. They were investors of the master's money. And so he gave them money in which he
255. 20:57required a return on investment. And so there was one guy that simply buried it in the ground.
256. 21:04At least he returned it to the master and he was even condemned for that. So my philosophy is
257. 21:10it's good to be an investor in the kingdom, not just a donor. And by that I mean you you invest in
258. 21:16things that build a kingdom simply giving money away. Being generous is not necessarily a spiritual
259. 21:24thing because philanthropists do that. Non-Christians can give away large sums of money.
260. 21:29But what makes the difference, I think, is being directed by the Holy Spirit, where to place
261. 21:36that money.
262. 21:37And it can be placed either as a donation or can be placed as an investment.
263. 21:44And by an investment, I mean you can invest in for-profit things, you can invest in not-for-profit
264. 21:49things.
265. 21:50I look at it this way.
266. 21:52I entrust money to other stewards within ministries if I donate.
267. 21:57philosophy is if they can spend my money better than I can at what they do then I
268. 22:02would be a fool not to give it to them. But if I can invest the money better than
269. 22:07they can then I should keep it invested myself. So donors are great.
270. 22:13There's a lot of generosity movement, mysteries out there and there's a
271. 22:17generosity movement and that's well and good. But generosity in and of itself is
272. 22:22not the goal. It's being faithful to build the kingdom through the power of the Holy Spirit
273. 22:28that God leads you to do specifically. So we have to listen to what God wants us to do with
274. 22:34His money. And I think that's the key is of being quiet and still and being obedient to
275. 22:39what you hear. The other thing I would say, my favorite, my favorite donor is the lady
276. 22:45that went into the temple and gave two small coins in front of Jesus. And she is the epitome
277. 22:51of the best steward because she gave everything and no one could have given more.
278. 22:57But she invested in something that was in her heart very important.
279. 23:01In fact, she gave it all away.
280. 23:04And so I think donating is critical when the Holy Spirit nudges you.
281. 23:09I think you can also donate by investing in other people, not only with your time, but with
282. 23:16your money, but also with your expertise.
283. 23:18And I try to do all that.
284. 23:19I call it basically using your essence for the kingdom, everything about you.
285. 23:24Amen. What comes first? Wealth or wisdom?
286. 23:30Well, we certainly want wisdom before we have wealth. It was interesting in the Psalms
287. 23:42that talks about how wisdom was there with God in creation, rejoicing with Him.
288. 23:49And so wisdom, capital W, I think was Jesus.
289. 23:54And I think wisdom is the only way we know how to work within God's kingdom.
290. 24:02I think we can be, there's a big difference between being smart and being wise.
291. 24:08And I think wisdom is what we should seek.
292. 24:11God gives us intelligence, He makes us smart,
293. 24:16but I think wisdom is the key,
294. 24:18because that's really, wisdom is simply
295. 24:19the mind of God in my mind,
296. 24:21knowing what God is.
297. 24:23So.
298. 24:24You know, you made a delineation
299. 24:26between money versus wealth.
300. 24:28I think there's a delineation
301. 24:30between information versus wisdom.
302. 24:34I mean, you know, we live in the world,
303. 24:36the information superhighway and data,
304. 24:40And I read that there are something like 150 terabytes
305. 24:46of information for every human on the planet.
306. 24:50That's more than we can even conceive.
307. 24:52But yet wisdom is very often in pretty short supply,
308. 24:56isn't it?
309. 24:58I believe that wisdom is given by God.
310. 25:00He said if you lack it, ask him for it.
311. 25:03And he'll give it to you.
312. 25:04I think wisdom simply is thinking the way God thinks.
313. 25:07I think it's, he gives us the ability to think like him
314. 25:10because he wants us to know him.
315. 25:12And the only way we can know him,
316. 25:14I think is to begin to have wisdom.
317. 25:17And I pray for wisdom,
318. 25:18I've been praying for wisdom for myself since college.
319. 25:22And I jokingly say, I'm a wise guy,
320. 25:25but I can't claim that I can't claim
321. 25:29that I have any wisdom apart from what God has given to me.
322. 25:32And that's a,
323. 25:34wisdom is much more useful in building God's kingdom
324. 25:37than intelligence, I'll say that.
325. 25:40I want to talk about some of your books.
326. 25:43You've authored the heart of business, business by design, and of course, enduring wealth.
327. 25:48I love the subtitle Being Rich in This World and The Next.
328. 25:53And again, you gave your website before the break, but tell us your website again.
329. 26:00I use a website, which is one of the books, is businessbydesignbook.com.
330. 26:06Businessbydesignbook.com.
331. 26:09website for the publisher which has all my information on it and all the books and that's the one I use typically.
332. 26:15So, and I've written, I'm sorry go ahead go ahead. I said I've written three books and there were
333. 26:24books I've written because of my struggles and so I write about things that I struggle with and so
334. 26:29one of the the first book I wrote was a book on how do we run a business with wisdom and that's
335. 26:35written based on the book of Proverbs, all the business principles that I could glean out of the
336. 26:41book of Proverbs. Second book I wrote was all the business principles that I could glean out of
337. 26:48the parables that Jesus taught. And the third book that we're talking about right now was written
338. 26:57my struggle and how do you handle money, how do you work in the kingdom with not only wisdom
339. 27:07and business, but how do you handle it? What do we do with our money? Because all of us will
340. 27:13accumulate money in some fashion and in some amount. The amount of money in God's kingdom
341. 27:19is not the critical issue, it's faithfulness.
342. 27:24And so what we do with our money is what is the most important,
343. 27:28not the amount of money we have.
344. 27:29In fact, as I said earlier, my favorite steward is the widow
345. 27:33that gave everything away and she only had two small coins.
346. 27:37So amount of money is never an issue in God's kingdom.
347. 27:39It's what do we do with it and are we faithful with it?
348. 27:42And so someone that can only tie $25 a month
349. 27:47is just as important in the Kingdom as someone that does millions a year.
350. 27:52It doesn't matter.
351. 27:54It seems like a lot of churches, and look, I love the church.
352. 28:00God's allowed me to speak in about 2000 churches around the Western Hemisphere.
353. 28:06But it does seem like a lot of churches really get divided over how they spend money,
354. 28:15and very often kind of do things on the cheap.
355. 28:18And I really think it's expensive to do things on the cheap,
356. 28:24ultimately.
357. 28:26How in a church could a pastor or leaders cultivate,
358. 28:32I guess just the posture of trusting God,
359. 28:35being obedient, being wise,
360. 28:37but really trusting God, God is our source.
361. 28:40And I don't think there's anything wise or pious
362. 28:45about being stingy.
363. 28:47No, I don't think either.
364. 28:49A lot of churches think that good stewardship
365. 28:53is getting their church boltons printed cheaper.
366. 28:56But you tell that to the printer
367. 28:58when you're trying to hound him down on his price.
368. 29:03It's not good for him.
369. 29:05So I think it goes back to the golden rule.
370. 29:08And that is do for others as you would have them do for you.
371. 29:12What I found as in running my firm was one of the most important business principles was a business principle of love.
372. 29:20And that is the golden rule, which is love your neighbor as yourself.
373. 29:25If you start operating with that paradigm, everything you do is for the betterment of someone else,
374. 29:33then you will not only be more successful, but you will bless the people around you.
375. 29:39And so when churches would begin to look at all that they do for the betterment of those
376. 29:46around them, I think they'll have a better impact on our culture.
377. 29:51So God will bless you back.
378. 29:54Absolutely.
379. 29:55God wants us to be generous and He wants us to operate according to His principles and
380. 30:02that is He said the second most important thing He'd do besides love me is to love others.
381. 30:08And so I think probably the Keystone Business Principle out there is the principle of love,
382. 30:15loving others and doing for them.
383. 30:18And we hear that growing up, the Golden Rule, we all learn that in school.
384. 30:23But I don't see it practiced as much in not only business, but in churches and in ministries.
385. 30:31They kind of look at things that they tend to forget how important it is to sit on the
386. 30:36other side of the table of someone else and look at things from their perspective.
387. 30:40Amen.
388. 30:41Amen.
389. 30:42Well, you know, in your book, you referenced the importance of building economic engines.
390. 30:51Is that something for every believer?
391. 30:55Well, I think it can be.
392. 31:00Sure.
393. 31:01I think economic engines basically are things that promote more power.
394. 31:05In other words, an engine can do more than we can do ourselves.
395. 31:07And so I look at my family as an economic engine.
396. 31:12My wife and I married Elmo, how four children.
397. 31:15Each of those children have developed their own economic engine by taking care of themselves
398. 31:21and raising families.
399. 31:22And then with their surplus, they are able to help others.
400. 31:25That's an economic engine.
401. 31:27My barber is an economic engine because he's from another country, he's from Ethiopia and
402. 31:34I met him as a Christian and what he does is in his business he uses money from the profit
403. 31:43that he makes as a barber as a simple barber to fund missionaries back home that go into
404. 31:49the bush to where no one else can go and share the gospel.
405. 31:53That's an economic engine.
406. 31:56So you can have economic engines like build a big company and it throws off cash and you can do those.
407. 32:02Those are wonderful economic engines. If you can use that, my firm.
408. 32:07Forgive me.
409. 32:08Oh, that follow.
410. 32:09We'll forgive you. We've got to take a break, folks.
411. 32:11Raymond Harris is our guest on this edition of the Hamilton Corner.
412. 32:15Alex McFarlane here.
413. 32:17It will be transformative.
414. 32:18If you let God direct the way you handle finances and wealth and wisdom,
415. 32:24Stay tuned more after this brief break.
416. 32:30HGTV has changed over the years, and not necessarily for the better.
417. 32:35The seemingly wholesome home and garden television has decided it would be clever and funny to
418. 32:40hint at an expletive in the title of one of its newest shows.
419. 32:44The alternative spelling is so poor that children can still read it and repeat it.
420. 32:49Obviously I won't say it here, but you can go to 1millionmoms.com to find out more and
421. 32:54urge HGTV to rename the show, 1 million moms.com.
422. 33:31friends about the content and the programming.
423. 33:33And we appreciate that.
424. 33:35And you know, with Christmas coming,
425. 33:36I just, I would be remiss if I did not express
426. 33:39with all the sincerity, how much we thank God
427. 33:43for each and every one of the listeners.
428. 33:45And we wish you just a blessed, joyful Christmas.
429. 33:48We hope you have so much time with family and loved ones,
430. 33:51but most of all, reflecting on the greatest gift
431. 33:55that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to be our savior.
432. 33:59So on behalf of all the staff and the on-air voices of AFR,
433. 34:03we wish you a very, very blessed and merry Christmas.
434. 34:08I know here in the middle of the winter,
435. 34:10you're probably not thinking about the summer of 2026,
436. 34:12but I wanna remind everybody that I've got the great privilege
437. 34:16of being at the Billy Graham Training Center
438. 34:18in Western North Carolina, July 17 through 19.
439. 34:22I'll be there speaking on Bible prophecy,
440. 34:25our brand new book on 100 Bible Questions and Answers,
441. 34:29July 17 through 19, but then shortly thereafter I'll be back July 27 through 31 with Gary Habermas,
442. 34:37world renowned expert on the resurrection of Christ.
443. 34:40We would love to see you.
444. 34:41My wife and I have been to the Cove for 20 summers, the Billy Graham Training Center.
445. 34:48It's unforgettable.
446. 34:49It is just so wonderful.
447. 34:50The presence of God is there and will do a deep dive into the scriptures, will fellowship
448. 34:55with people from really around the world.
449. 34:59You'll eat some really good food.
450. 35:01We'll probably visit with Gigi Graham,
451. 35:04one of Billy and Ruth Graham's children.
452. 35:06Our dear friend Will Graham is usually there.
453. 35:09So the Cove is just great.
454. 35:11And the website is thecove.org,
455. 35:14T-H-E-C-O-V-E.org.
456. 35:16And we'd love to see you there next summer
457. 35:18as we worship the Lord and learn His Word together.
458. 35:23And somebody that is just a brand new friend that I've made is Raymond Harris.
459. 35:30He's an entrepreneur.
460. 35:31He is an architect.
461. 35:33He is a kingdom man in the strongest sense of the word.
462. 35:37But Raymond, I've got to ask you, I was reading, is it true that you have hiked all of the
463. 35:44national parks in the continental U.S.?
464. 35:48Absolutely.
465. 35:49I was a Scoutmaster for 13 years and both of my sons were Eagle Scouts. I just love the out of doors.
466. 35:56And after my tenure as a Scoutmaster and after taking boys and backpacking trips around, I said,
467. 36:03you know what, it'd be pretty cool if you could hike all the parks. And so every seven year period,
468. 36:08I ended up hiking all the parks. And some of them you don't hike very far because they're small,
469. 36:13but yeah, my own backpack a lot of them.
470. 36:17That is outstanding.
471. 36:19And my wife and I, we've been to a few,
472. 36:22not all of them, not like you.
473. 36:24Of course, I love Yellowstone, don't you?
474. 36:26Isn't that just a...
475. 36:27Oh, absolutely.
476. 36:28Absolutely.
477. 36:30It's magical.
478. 36:32Well, it really is.
479. 36:34And we're so blessed.
480. 36:35So this begats a question.
481. 36:38Our nation is so blessed.
482. 36:40America is so blessed.
483. 36:42But yet, I do feel like there's been, we have not been the stewards of this country we could
484. 36:50have been and I know there's so much waste and there's so much spending that is not wisely
485. 36:58done.
486. 37:00Do you have any thoughts on that?
487. 37:03Can America expect the continued blessings of God given how we have or haven't handled
488. 37:10what blessings we do have.
489. 37:13Well, I think we have to humble ourselves.
490. 37:15I think I personally feel that God wants us to be humble
491. 37:20and to ask for forgiveness where we sin
492. 37:23and he will redeem us.
493. 37:25And there's always a hope of redemption and restoration,
494. 37:30but restoration is a continual thing.
495. 37:33I think that yes, we've probably have squandered
496. 37:36some of the beautiful wealth that he's given us
497. 37:40our culture and in our physical country, but you've got to remember we live in a broken
498. 37:48world and we're broken people. And as we realize that, if we ask for God to forgive us and restore
499. 37:56us back to fellowship with him, I think we can have a restoration. But I think God has used the
500. 38:05America's, particularly the United States, has really used us to spread the gospel around
501. 38:14the world. And that is why I think so many people want to come to America is because it's
502. 38:20still a good place to go. I've been on five of the seven continents and been in poverty
503. 38:27overseas quite a bit on numerous, numerous trips. And we still have it the best, even
504. 38:33though there are things that are going wonky today, we are still the best place. That's why
505. 38:41everyone's still trying to get in. But we can squander that. And I think we have to humble
506. 38:46ourselves and ask for forgiveness when we are convicted of our sin. And then to do the
507. 38:52best we can to provide for other people. I think we're eternal beings. Like I said earlier,
508. 38:57you know, we need to look at everything from an eternal perspective. And we will have a
509. 39:02a new heaven and a new earth at some point.
510. 39:04But in the meantime, I think we need to take care
511. 39:06of what God has given us.
512. 39:08And to do, and I say this, people have told me,
513. 39:12he says, I want to go to heaven soon.
514. 39:14I said, no, I want to stay into as much damage
515. 39:16as I can before I go for the game.
516. 39:18Amen.
517. 39:19As much and as fast as I can.
518. 39:21And, you know, of course, it would be nice
519. 39:23to go to heaven sooner than later.
520. 39:26But oh, look at the things we can do in the meantime
521. 39:30before we go.
522. 39:31Amen.
523. 39:32Because I've read years ago a book that really impacted my life was by Chuck Swindall,
524. 39:37Rise and Shine. And Chuck Swindall said, you know, the one thing that we can't do in heaven
525. 39:42is evangelism. And so like Paul said, he would like to depart and be with the Lord,
526. 39:52but to remain down here. And folks, I know sometimes it's hard and this fallen world is
527. 39:59stressful, but down here we are the ambassadors for Jesus.
528. 40:04And it's only in this world that we can invest ourselves in the Great Commission, which, you
529. 40:11know, for Raymond, I love 1 Corinthians 1558, which says, your labor in the Lord is not
530. 40:17in vain.
531. 40:19And so we need to stay at it, don't we?
532. 40:23Absolutely.
533. 40:24It's only on earth that we can be the hands of feet of Christ, because once we go to heaven,
534. 40:29He's there and He doesn't need our hands and feet because He's there.
535. 40:34But, oh, when we're on earth, we can actually be the hands and feet of Christ and to take
536. 40:39care of His Kingdom on earth.
537. 40:41And I think that's why He equips us to do that, not only mentally, but He gives us resources
538. 40:46to do that.
539. 40:48And what great joy it is to be the hands and feet of Christ when we still have an opportunity.
540. 40:53You know, we can't take anything with us that's physical on earth.
541. 40:58I've said before and the way I relate it to is when you get on the plane to go to heaven,
542. 41:04the twenties in your pocket don't work.
543. 41:07So it's very important to go to the currency exchange counter before you get on the plane
544. 41:13to heaven and exchange that currency for heavenly currency so that when you arrive, it will work.
545. 41:20It'll spend up there.
546. 41:22I want to talk a little bit about your work of the gospel through a film and the arts,
547. 41:29and you've helped the Erwin Brothers build their moviemaking endeavor.
548. 41:38This is so important, especially with young people, because young people very often, they
549. 41:44think with their eyes, they're very visual.
550. 41:48made a number of movies, they are excellent, one of which I loved for one thing because
551. 41:55I've thought about it and written about it for years and that was the Jesus movement of
552. 42:01the late 60s, early 70s and I have an older sibling that came to the Lord through the
553. 42:06Jesus movement.
554. 42:08And when Jesus' revolution hit theaters, I was so keen on that movie, still am, I just
555. 42:15told everybody they need to see it.
556. 42:16We actually took several hundred college students to two screenings of it.
557. 42:23Our ministry did because I just wanted kids to know about this.
558. 42:26I thoroughly believe the Jesus movement was one of the great awakenings that God has given
559. 42:34this country.
560. 42:35But if you would talk to us about the movie, Jesus Revolution and really what led you into
561. 42:40filmmaking as a ministry?
562. 42:43Well, I met John and Andy Irwin about 15 or so years ago. They were
563. 42:50in their late 20s and I met them through
564. 42:55Crown financial ministries which we hired them to do some short films for us and
565. 43:03They had never made a feature film they were mostly in the production business of making music videos and
566. 43:09advertising and commercials and things like that. And they wanted to make a small
567. 43:15movie so they asked my wife and I and their parents if we would fund their first
568. 43:21movie. And so we were the funders, we were equity owners and the executive
569. 43:26producers of their first movie. And that started the Erwin Brothers in the movie
570. 43:31business. Now I tell people I'm not in the movie business. I just invest in two
571. 43:35young guys that are. And so it's through relationships. I'm not smart enough to figure it out on my own,
572. 43:40but through relationships. I met them, walked alongside them for 15 years to help them get started,
573. 43:46and they are top of the class when it comes to movie making. But they're very hardworking,
574. 43:52they're very talented, they're humble men, and nobody does things better than they do in my opinion.
575. 43:59And so the Jesus revolution film actually was a concept that John Irwin whiteboarded in my office
576. 44:10years ago. And he said, I want to make a movie about what happened in the 60s and the 70s. But he
577. 44:19said, we really can't just go out and make a big Hollywood movie. We have to make small movies
578. 44:24first to earn the respect of Hollywood to be able to make a bigger movie. And so we started out making
579. 44:30small movies and built up. And the Jews' revolution is a result of about 10 years of John Irwin thinking
580. 44:39through and planning ahead to make this movie. So it was a long time in process. John's a very
581. 44:47talented writer and his brother Andy is just brilliant in directing and editing. And so between
582. 44:53the two of them, there's just incredible genius and I love them dearly. I would like to claim
583. 45:01them as sons. I'm old enough to be their dad, but they are top of the class. And so it
584. 45:07really started with their dream. A lot of their white boarding was in my office, but they
585. 45:13all the credit. I just helped them get started.
586. 45:16How did they come to cast Kelsey Grammer in the lead role as Pastor Chuck Smith?
587. 45:21Well, I think they had already done numerous movies that they were building the reputation so
588. 45:30Discuated already acted in a movie call I can only imagine so they were
589. 45:36They were well known
590. 45:38in the movie industry and
591. 45:40so John and Andy have a reputation that they're building a faith base and a morals based
592. 45:48movie company that
593. 45:50And we're not, you know, I don't want to say we're building Christian movies. We're not.
594. 45:55We're building movies that are just good movies that have moral content. And that's what I
595. 46:00think Americans want to see. They want, they don't want to see a lot of junk. I mean, you
596. 46:05can go see the junk. That's fine. But where is the good stuff? And so when you start to
597. 46:10make good stuff, people want to be a part of that. And so, Desquaid and Kelsey, all those
598. 46:16guys appreciate the privilege of acting in Zachary Levi. I mean, he's been in three of
599. 46:22our movies. So anyway. Yeah, you know, for about eight years, I wrote for Pluged In magazine,
600. 46:28which was part of Fogson family and overwhelmingly the faith based Christian, wholesome, family
601. 46:36friendly, good stories, what you and I would call, you know, godly films. They always did
602. 46:43well. And on the flip side, the movies that bombed were the more woke, immoral, and we used
603. 46:51to write articles about, hey, Hollywood, faith-based, family-friendly, uplifting, wholesome, people
604. 47:01will come and open their wallet to support those kinds of good projects and the projects
605. 47:07like you have done. Hey, you know, time fleets away. And I want to say before we run out
606. 47:11of time, Raymond Harris, how much I appreciate you. This conversation has really blessed my heart.
607. 47:17You know, we're kind of near Christmas and I was very famously, in 1843, Charles Dickens, published
608. 47:24a Christmas Carol. The story of how Scrooge got the Spirit of Christmas and you know,
609. 47:32there's so much Christianity in that. His business partner, Jacob Marley,
610. 47:37said, you know, why didn't I lift my eyes to the blessed star, the star of Bethlehem?
611. 47:44Jacob Marley also said, in eternity we wear the chains we forge in life. That's really true, isn't it?
612. 47:52Yes, I totally agree with that. I love that. Thank you. I hadn't thought about that yet.
613. 48:00But I want to thank you for helping the church to discover the wisdom that God
614. 48:08offers us in His Word. And thank you for all you're doing for the kingdom and
615. 48:12thank you for being with us today, Raymond Harris. My pleasure. Thank you for
616. 48:17inviting me. Mayor Christmas to you and your family folks you can listen to this
617. 48:20again at aFR.net. All the shows are archived aFR.net. In the meantime love,
618. 48:27Love, forgive, be a blessing, and glorify God in all of our lives.
619. 48:32Thank you for listening.
620. 48:39The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
621. 48:44Family Association or American Family Radio.