The Hamilton Corner

June 19, 2025 · 52:50

Dr. Renton Rathbun, host of “The Renton Rathbun Show,” returns to “The Corner.”

Religious Liberty

Show notes

0:00 - 15:00. Revelation 4:10-11. Our lives should depict our full-fledged agreement with the Eternal Worship Chorus. 15:00 - 31:00. Dr. Renton Rathbun, host of “The Renton Rathbun Show,” returns to “The Corner.” 31:00 - 48:00. “God has called Christian husbands to lead their homes” has become a cultural expletive in 21st century America. Nevertheless, it is divine instruction. | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345 To donate call : 877-616-2396

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  1. 0:00The month of June has been hijacked by the anti-Christian culture to show their pride in
  2. 0:04something God calls and abomination.
  3. 0:06When you support AFR, you help us continue to stand for godly values and provide the resources
  4. 0:12for you to stay in the know about the enemy's tactics.
  5. 0:15To say thank you for your gift this month, we'll give you the booklet Inside the LGBTQ
  6. 0:20Push of the 1990s to help strengthen your convictions.
  7. 0:24Just go to AFR.net slash offers.
  8. 0:27AFR.net slash offers.
  9. 0:30Darkness is not her but a force
  10. 0:33Is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio?
  11. 0:41It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite
  12. 0:45Delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media
  13. 0:48And the philosophies of this world
  14. 0:50God has called you and me to be his ambassador
  15. 0:54Even in this dark moment
  16. 0:56Let's not miss our moment
  17. 0:58And now the Hamilton Corner
  18. 1:01Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third
  19. 1:09here. I am the host of this program. So grateful that you've joined me for this
  20. 1:14edition of Where in the World is Avedad? We are broadcasting live from the
  21. 1:19Cultureproof Conference 2025 in Bartlett, Tennessee that is going to be underway
  22. 1:26here in about an hour. It gets underway at 6 p.m. Tonight I have to actually rush
  23. 1:32from the show to be a part of one of the first presentations for the conference today.
  24. 1:38But we are grateful that you have joined us for the program. We'll be here tonight and tomorrow
  25. 1:43evening live from this conference. I just had the pleasure of meeting Alex Newman in person.
  26. 1:49Dr. Renton Rathbun is here. Is your way is here. Dr. Kathy Cook is here. Bishop Vincent
  27. 1:55Matthews is here. It's going to be an amazing, amazing time. I'm so looking forward to this
  28. 2:00conference but thank you so much for joining us here on the program at this
  29. 2:03very moment. Many of you, if not most of you are making your transition from your
  30. 2:07part-time jobs where you generate an income to your full-time jobs where you
  31. 2:11cultivate an outcome and as you do so I want to remind you to do so with
  32. 2:15intentionality. I know for a fact that there are heavy things transpiring in
  33. 2:20the world. I mean to bunker bust or not bunker bust that is a question. You know
  34. 2:26We have all kinds of things.
  35. 2:27Discrimedy case was decided yesterday.
  36. 2:30We'll get into that.
  37. 2:31Thank God for truth and sanity prevailing.
  38. 2:34And then, you know, I'm looking around,
  39. 2:36I'm making children around to hear me,
  40. 2:38but did you hear one of the dumbest things
  41. 2:40I've ever heard issued from the mouth of one whoopee?
  42. 2:45I guess I should pause whenever you start off with whoopee.
  43. 2:48As your first name is probably a whoopee.
  44. 2:50That's gonna come out.
  45. 2:51But although I don't think it was a whoopee
  46. 2:53from her standpoint, I think it was very intentional
  47. 2:55where she's talking about, oh well, well,
  48. 2:58that if Iranians say they,
  49. 3:02it feels like to be black in America,
  50. 3:04Iranians have the same oppression
  51. 3:06that black people in America face.
  52. 3:08Someone's like, Cole, you?
  53. 3:15Oh, you stupid.
  54. 3:18You are, you are, that's one of the most absurd things
  55. 3:22I ever heard.
  56. 3:24I guess let me say recently,
  57. 3:25because absurdities just happen to abound.
  58. 3:28Nevertheless, as you are making your way
  59. 3:30from your part-time jobs to your full-time jobs, remember,
  60. 3:36the first human institution that God established
  61. 3:37was the family with marriage at the center.
  62. 3:41The first command given the mankind was issued
  63. 3:44within the familial context.
  64. 3:46God did this intentionally.
  65. 3:49So as you're making your way to your full-time jobs,
  66. 3:51and for those who may be new to the program,
  67. 3:53I describe our income-generating capacities
  68. 3:55as our part time jobs, because they are important,
  69. 3:58but they are not synonymous with our identities.
  70. 4:01Our full time jobs, our full time job is outcome cultivation.
  71. 4:06For every believer, the Lord has called you to be a part
  72. 4:10of executing the Great Commission.
  73. 4:13The Great Commission is a disciple making commission,
  74. 4:17and we are all called to be a part of it.
  75. 4:19It's not like a special forces engagement.
  76. 4:24every believer's called to be involved in it.
  77. 4:26And my effort is to aid you in recalibrating your thought
  78. 4:33process.
  79. 4:34So often we think of ourselves and our culture
  80. 4:37intentionally works to get us to think of ourselves
  81. 4:40as being synonymous and identical with our income
  82. 4:43generating capacity.
  83. 4:44So that just simply is not the case.
  84. 4:46So as you're making your way from your part time jobs
  85. 4:49to your full time jobs, do so with intentionality.
  86. 4:52understand what you get to do.
  87. 4:56You get to be a part of executing the Kings Commission
  88. 5:00and it starts in our homes.
  89. 5:02The world works overtime to get us to neglect
  90. 5:06and to ignore the privilege and opportunity
  91. 5:08that we have to obey him starting in our homes
  92. 5:10with our families and in place significance
  93. 5:13and import on everything else.
  94. 5:17The home is not the exclusive context
  95. 5:19that God calls us to be faithful in.
  96. 5:21But it is a primary context and here's the unfortunate for some,
  97. 5:27but the fortunate truths for many others is that we don't get to repeat
  98. 5:34the formative years of our children.
  99. 5:35There are no mulligans when it pertains to our children.
  100. 5:39I've said before, my oldest is 14 now.
  101. 5:41I can't go back and do 10 years old again with him.
  102. 5:44I can't go back and do eight years old again with him.
  103. 5:47So what we seek to do, let us do quickly.
  104. 5:50To the word of God we go, Revelation chapter four is where I want to
  105. 5:53begin the program. This is actually the theme verse for the Culture Proof Conference, actually
  106. 5:59chapter 4 verse 11. But I'm going to start in verse 10 and go on to 11. This is by way
  107. 6:05of reminder for those who already know this, so this may be new to you. The book of Revelation
  108. 6:10actual Greek term is apocalypsis. A lot of times we think of apocalypse in terms of,
  109. 6:17oh my god, this is end of time, but the word apocalypse simply means to reveal. That's
  110. 6:20That's what it means.
  111. 6:21All right.
  112. 6:22And so the book of Revelation, there's no S at the end of that, by the way, put an S on
  113. 6:27the Psalms, but no S on Revelation.
  114. 6:31And this is the Apostle John recording the revelation of Jesus.
  115. 6:34Jesus is the one describing these things and showing these things to the Apostle John.
  116. 6:40And John is documenting what Jesus, what Yeshua is describing for Him.
  117. 6:46And in this portion of the book of Revelation, we're granted access behind the scenes if you
  118. 6:53will look into what heaven includes.
  119. 6:56All right, we get a look into what heaven includes.
  120. 7:00And this is a portion of the eternal worship chorus that is going on in heaven without a
  121. 7:06time clock.
  122. 7:07Y'all hear me talking about the disrespectful clock.
  123. 7:09Ain't no disrespectful clocks in eternity.
  124. 7:11I am looking forward to it.
  125. 7:13Revelation 4, verses 10 and 11.
  126. 7:19This is after the Apostle John records,
  127. 7:22the never ending song,
  128. 7:24holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,
  129. 7:27who was and is to come.
  130. 7:28Verse 10 says this,
  131. 7:30to 24 elders fall down before him,
  132. 7:34who is seated on the throne
  133. 7:37and worship him who lives forever and ever.
  134. 7:42They cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
  135. 7:46where they are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power for you created all things
  136. 7:58and by your will they exist and were created. The King James there says, and for your pleasure
  137. 8:05They are. This is a part of the eternal worship chorus and I always reflect on this passage in verse 10.
  138. 8:16We have the 24 elders that are casting their crowns at the feet of the one who is worthy.
  139. 8:23The one who is alone worthy of majesty and praise and exaltation.
  140. 8:29And they acclaim in unison that he truly is worthy.
  141. 8:35Our God is worthy.
  142. 8:37The simple fact guys is, you hear me say this all the time.
  143. 8:42Worship is due our King solely, I won't say solely.
  144. 8:49Because of who he is, he is worthy of our worship.
  145. 8:52But worship is not merely a ceremonial,
  146. 8:56organ accompanied phenomenon.
  147. 8:59When we sing songs of worship, that is an aspect
  148. 9:03of worship, but it is not the sum total of what worship is, guys.
  149. 9:09When we sing songs and hymns and spiritual songs
  150. 9:12to our Lord, that is an aspect of worship.
  151. 9:14When we delve into His holy word,
  152. 9:16that is an aspect of worship.
  153. 9:18When we gather with the saints and obedience
  154. 9:21to His word, that is an aspect of worship,
  155. 9:23but it's not the sum total of worship.
  156. 9:26The pinnacle of worship is obedience.
  157. 9:32When we see these beautifully written words
  158. 9:34and even singing the beautifully scored songs and hymns.
  159. 9:41What is the significance of the songs we sing?
  160. 9:44If the songs we sing don't echo the lives that we live.
  161. 9:49We declare God is worthy with our lips,
  162. 9:53but also with our legs and our feet.
  163. 9:57We declare God is worthy as we sing hymns on Sunday mornings.
  164. 10:01And if we declare God is worthy,
  165. 10:03when we show up for our income-generating capacity.
  166. 10:07on Monday mornings and Tuesday and and and we declare whether or not the Lord is worthy
  167. 10:12and how we treat the gas station attendant and we declare God is worthy. He is worthy in the way
  168. 10:17that if we have the opportunity to dine out how do we treat the waitstaff? You know,
  169. 10:23if our God truly is worthy as the scripture declares and as we often sing that worthiness will be
  170. 10:30evident in how we live. But the unfortunate reality all too often is that the song declaration of
  171. 10:39the wordiness of God is often contradicted by how we live. We can say with our lips, you know,
  172. 10:47worthy are you Lord, but with our lives we declare his unworthiness. And my simple encouragement today
  173. 10:53in particular is that we would live lifestyles that declare that affirm our song declarations
  174. 11:01of God's worthiness.
  175. 11:03You know, the scripture bears it out very plainly,
  176. 11:08that the love that we have for our Lord is indicated
  177. 11:11in how we interact with one another.
  178. 11:13What is the greatest commandment?
  179. 11:16Matthew 22, Jesus responds,
  180. 11:18with two, you are to love the Lord your God,
  181. 11:23with all your heart, all your soul,
  182. 11:26all your mind and your strength, right?
  183. 11:29This is a quotation from the Shma, the Jewish Shma,
  184. 11:31from Deuteronomy 6.
  185. 11:33then Jesus continues and the second is like it.
  186. 11:37You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
  187. 11:43One of the most profound ways we can love our neighbor
  188. 11:51is if we have a neighbor who doesn't know the Lord
  189. 11:55to share the gospel with them.
  190. 11:58How can we know that eternity is real?
  191. 12:05How can we know that eternal life is real?
  192. 12:07is real, how could we know that eternal damnation is real and
  193. 12:10profess the love God, but not love our neighbor sufficiently to
  194. 12:13at some point to communicate to them the reality of eternity.
  195. 12:19How can we? You know, I've been reflecting on the life and
  196. 12:23testimony of Rosaria Butterfield. And I've been talking about
  197. 12:26this. I even mentioned this at the AFA summit last week, my
  198. 12:31keynote presentation that Rosaria Butterfield was really the
  199. 12:37the poster child, if you will, for frankly, the sexual divinity,
  200. 12:45she's a social political agenda.
  201. 12:46She was a brilliant college professor, living a lesbian lifestyle,
  202. 12:51professing to have a committed relationship that the scripture
  203. 12:55declares to be sinful, abominable.
  204. 12:58And she was asked, what led to you coming to know Jesus as Savior
  205. 13:02and Lord?
  206. 13:04And she said, 500 meals with an older Christian couple,
  207. 13:08500 meals with a tangible witness of God's worthiness
  208. 13:16was made evident in their interaction with their neighbor.
  209. 13:20So often we think about menish being this kind of big name
  210. 13:23and lights kind of phenomenon when really
  211. 13:26menish is being loving to the nearest one.
  212. 13:28By the way, we're neighboring Greek literally just means
  213. 13:30the nearest one, the one who is nearest.
  214. 13:33That's what literally what it means.
  215. 13:35And the scripture goes on when Jesus makes that quote,
  216. 13:38the great commandment we give him to,
  217. 13:40love the Lord your God with your heart,
  218. 13:41So mine is strength and love your neighbor as yourself.
  219. 13:42Then he said on these two, hang the entirety, the entirety of the law.
  220. 13:55Guys, people making fun of me, the gas station attended.
  221. 13:59Man, I'm not talking about just the person who you have to pump.
  222. 14:01I'm talking about the person who you pay your money to if you have to go inside to
  223. 14:04come on people.
  224. 14:08But guys, that's the reality.
  225. 14:11You know, and the beauty of being an ambassador for Christ, the disciple
  226. 14:15make a phenomenon is that it's a feature of multiplication.
  227. 14:19You know, one, disciple of Christ,
  228. 14:20invests in making a second disciple of Christ,
  229. 14:23and then two, then both of those continue that process.
  230. 14:26Then one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes 16.
  231. 14:32And the multiplication continues in that fashion.
  232. 14:36But if God is truly worthy to us,
  233. 14:39it would be reflected in the way that we live.
  234. 14:44My encouragement for us is not to be those who would verbally,
  235. 14:48who will only profess verbally the wordiness of our God,
  236. 14:51but that we would likewise live the wordiness of our God.
  237. 14:57And as long as there's breath in our lungs,
  238. 15:01and the Lord has not yet returned in glory,
  239. 15:03as the scripture describes He will do,
  240. 15:05then you and I must be about the Father's business,
  241. 15:08and it is our pleasure to do so.
  242. 15:12He truly is worthy of glory and honor and power
  243. 15:17and power. May we live as if He truly is worthy.
  244. 15:30A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
  245. 15:33The Lord Jesus, He's a providing shepherd.
  246. 15:35He's a guiding shepherd.
  247. 15:37He's a restoring shepherd. He's a present shepherd.
  248. 15:40He's an almighty shepherd, a comforting shepherd,
  249. 15:44a protecting shepherd, an anointing shepherd,
  250. 15:47a shepherd that can be trusted and an eternal shepherd as well.
  251. 15:51Father, thank you for being our good and great shepherd, a shepherd that helps us in every area
  252. 15:58of our life. Father, anoint the minds, ears, heart and understanding of every listener with
  253. 16:03a fresh anointing that we would in a much greater way know how to take the wonderful and powerful
  254. 16:09word of God and use it like the weapon that it is to walk forward in victory every single day.
  255. 16:15They help us to be wise enough to not only memorize Psalm 23,
  256. 16:19but to speak it and to stand on it and confess it
  257. 16:22as the weapon that it is, as we speak your word
  258. 16:26in all the circumstances of life.
  259. 16:35Shiting light into the darkness,
  260. 16:37this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
  261. 16:41Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham,
  262. 16:43Hamilton III here, and I am delighted to have seated
  263. 16:47at the table with me, a brother who I have stalked.
  264. 16:50Not literally, but it's become literal and recently here.
  265. 16:54It seems like wherever he pops up, I pop up.
  266. 16:57We're here at the Culture Proof Conference 2025,
  267. 16:59and my guest is none other than,
  268. 17:02and I've introduced him to this audience before,
  269. 17:04to our audience here.
  270. 17:05A brother who's been a great blessing to me personally,
  271. 17:08who the Lord has used mightily to minister to me from a distance,
  272. 17:11and even more so up close and person.
  273. 17:14I heard him live last year a couple times.
  274. 17:16And I'm excited to hear him again.
  275. 17:18And I'm speaking none other than Dr. Renton Rathbend,
  276. 17:21who has been a classroom teacher for over 25 years.
  277. 17:24His experience has included both secular and Christian colleges
  278. 17:28and universities.
  279. 17:29He speaks on biblical worldview and apologetics
  280. 17:31across the country, as well as podcasts, radio, and TV,
  281. 17:34even his own podcast now.
  282. 17:36The Renton Rathbend Show.
  283. 17:38And he trains faculty, administrators, and families
  284. 17:40in biblical worldview all over the country.
  285. 17:43He holds a bachelor's in English education,
  286. 17:45a master's in interpretive speech.
  287. 17:48He's also received an MFA in creative writing
  288. 17:52from Minnesota State University.
  289. 17:54And a master's in philosophy, man,
  290. 17:55you have been a professional student for a long time.
  291. 17:57That's better than working.
  292. 17:59And a master's in theology
  293. 18:03from Puritan Reform Theological Seminary.
  294. 18:04He has a doctorate, a PhD in apologetics
  295. 18:07from Westminster Theological Seminary.
  296. 18:09And he has the spiritual gift of telling you the truth
  297. 18:13and kneeling you with it.
  298. 18:15which I personally appreciate.
  299. 18:16Dr. Rathman, thank you for joining me here
  300. 18:18on The Hamilton Corner.
  301. 18:19Thanks for having me, it's great to be here.
  302. 18:21Oh man, the pleasure is mine, certainly.
  303. 18:24And I want to kind of pick up at the end of your bio
  304. 18:27because I know last time you were on the program
  305. 18:29you were director of World View at Bob Jones University.
  306. 18:32And I know you've worked with them in BJU Press in the past.
  307. 18:36And now, instead of the Invasion podcast,
  308. 18:39you have the Renton Rathman Show.
  309. 18:43So how can the people here watching and listening,
  310. 18:46keep up with what God is doing with you,
  311. 18:48which I certainly will recommend to you listening
  312. 18:50and watching that you need to keep up
  313. 18:52with what Dr. Rathbun is doing with Dr. Rathbun,
  314. 18:55because he's a blessing to the body of Christ.
  315. 18:57Simply put, he's a blessing to the body of Christ.
  316. 18:59How can folks keep up with you?
  317. 19:00Absolutely, yeah.
  318. 19:01Go to Renton Rathbun.com,
  319. 19:04R-E-N-T-O-N, R-A-T-H-B-U-N.com.
  320. 19:08And you'll find my stuff there.
  321. 19:10You can find the Renton Rathbun Show on any of the podcasting that you use on your own.
  322. 19:17We're on all the platforms that I know of anyway.
  323. 19:20But yeah, you can find me there.
  324. 19:23I actually went to BGU Press.
  325. 19:29And I went to their president and I said, is there anyone in BGU Press that's just dedicated
  326. 19:36to parents, especially homeschooling parents?
  327. 19:40You know, not trying to sell them anything, but just trying to give them help.
  328. 19:44And they said, no, and I said, could we do that?
  329. 19:47I said, you know, you guys got a lot of money.
  330. 19:49So, let me do that.
  331. 19:52And so, that's what I'm doing.
  332. 19:54We started this new arm of it called, of BGU Press, called Home Front.
  333. 20:00And it's Home Front for Families.
  334. 20:02And we try to provide as much free stuff for parents as we can to help them.
  335. 20:08that is my podcast, The Renton Rathbun Show.
  336. 20:11But we also have articles and every time I speak
  337. 20:15we try to get them free stuff.
  338. 20:16And so that's what we're trying to do now.
  339. 20:18And that's wonderful.
  340. 20:19Can I ask what is it that led you to want
  341. 20:22to provide a resource for homeschooling families?
  342. 20:26Yeah, I want this particular form of resource.
  343. 20:28Yeah, I noticed that people have stuff
  344. 20:32that they're trying to sell.
  345. 20:33And they've come up with good stuff
  346. 20:35and they're trying to sell things.
  347. 20:38B.J. Oppress is trying to sell their books,
  348. 20:40but there's no one that's just dedicated to help.
  349. 20:44Like you don't have anything in the game
  350. 20:48trying to get them to lead them somewhere.
  351. 20:50You just wanna help them.
  352. 20:52And I thought, how do you take advantage
  353. 20:56of a company that's doing really well
  354. 20:59to help you get to families?
  355. 21:02And so they agreed to do it.
  356. 21:05And we're a homeschooling family.
  357. 21:08And it's really for anyone that's a parent.
  358. 21:12But I really was burdened for that
  359. 21:15because I just thought, if you have time,
  360. 21:19I can tell you a little story.
  361. 21:21Well, I love story time with Dr. Rynk Grant.
  362. 21:25So I'm teaching a class at a Christian university.
  363. 21:30and I'm standing there, you know, doing my best.
  364. 21:34I mean, you know, I'm not bragging,
  365. 21:35but I can make stuff happen.
  366. 21:38Well, whenever you start off with, I'm not bragging,
  367. 21:40but what?
  368. 21:41Well, someone has to.
  369. 21:44So, I'm sitting there doing my, you know, tap dancing
  370. 21:48and doing all this great stuff for these kids.
  371. 21:51And, you know, it's a Bible class.
  372. 21:53We're talking about God.
  373. 21:55We're talking about, you know,
  374. 21:57what it means to defend God's word.
  375. 21:59I mean, it's exciting stuff and I'm looking around
  376. 22:03and I'm just looking at these dead-eyed stairs.
  377. 22:06It's not that they were upset or frustrated,
  378. 22:10they just didn't care.
  379. 22:13And I Christian school?
  380. 22:14Yeah.
  381. 22:15And I just thought, where can we start?
  382. 22:20Long before college comes, where can we start
  383. 22:23to help kids, help families, help their kids?
  384. 22:27Long before their habits of being bored with God
  385. 22:31have already set in, where can we get them earlier?
  386. 22:34And that's, it was standing there staring at those kids
  387. 22:37that I realized I need to do something
  388. 22:39that will help parents way before we get to this point.
  389. 22:43And that's really what kind of pushed me into
  390. 22:47home front for families.
  391. 22:49So that's what it's called, home front for families.
  392. 22:52Yeah.
  393. 22:53So we start a website, it's homefrontfamilies.com.
  394. 22:58We're still building that up, probably RentonRathpen.com
  395. 23:01has more resources right now.
  396. 23:03We're still kinda building it.
  397. 23:05It's very new.
  398. 23:07It's so new that the website is still being built.
  399. 23:10But that's what we wanted.
  400. 23:13We wanted something that has no dog in the fight
  401. 23:19as far as trying to get you to buy something.
  402. 23:21We just wanna help.
  403. 23:22and that's what we're doing.
  404. 23:24And I was joking with you earlier,
  405. 23:25but I'll tell you guys, Dr. Rathbun
  406. 23:26is one of the most profound and excellent teachers
  407. 23:29and communicators I've ever heard.
  408. 23:30And I'm not un-meaning and I'm trying to gas you up,
  409. 23:33you know, hit it big enough already, I'm just kidding.
  410. 23:36No, but it's just the truth, you know,
  411. 23:37he's, I've been at conferences where I was scheduled to speak
  412. 23:41and you were scheduled to speak
  413. 23:42and I made sure my schedule allowed me to come and hear you.
  414. 23:45Honestly, just because you've been a blessing
  415. 23:48to the body of Christ, you've been a blessing to my family,
  416. 23:51You know, we are also homeschool family
  417. 23:53and one of the things, and I didn't tell you,
  418. 23:54I was gonna ask you this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway,
  419. 23:56is how you've recalibrated the definition
  420. 24:00of biblical worldview.
  421. 24:02You don't know this, but we were at the
  422. 24:04ICHE Conference in Illinois, not about two weeks ago.
  423. 24:10And my wife did a presentation on why
  424. 24:12it's important to teach apologetics to children,
  425. 24:15but she referred to you, you know,
  426. 24:16and she put your picture up and said,
  427. 24:17you guys know Dr. Rathbine?
  428. 24:19Well, you know, you need to know, you know?
  429. 24:21And the recalibration of biblical worldview is one of the things that God has
  430. 24:27allowed you to do, which is, in my opinion, the best definition of biblical
  431. 24:31worldview that exists conceptually, but even more so in application. So would you
  432. 24:36just, for those who may not be familiar, describe how you define biblical worldview?
  433. 24:41Well, what I got frustrated with was for many years I heard people describe
  434. 24:47biblical worldview and then say that's the definition. And so they told me what
  435. 24:52biblical worldview does. So they would say it's when you use God's word to to
  436. 24:58interpret the world and you're like okay but what is it? And so what we what we
  437. 25:05wanted to do was start not with us not with how I interpret the world but how does
  438. 25:10God how do we start with God? So so with a with our definition of biblical
  439. 25:16worldview, it is God's explanation of God's word, that we find out through His word for
  440. 25:28His image-bearers. And so God's explanation of God's word, of God's word, through His word
  441. 25:36and His word is for His image-bearers. And then when you want to know what to do with
  442. 25:40it, you just turn the whole thing around. You start with image-bearers. You say God's image-bearers
  443. 25:45use God's word to interpret God's world so that it can align, they can align with his
  444. 25:51explanation of his world.
  445. 25:53And that was so profound to me because you rightly diagnosed, it's just, that's me writing
  446. 26:00it down.
  447. 26:01I know what it says because I wrote it down when I heard you hit the first time and I've
  448. 26:05kept it and I've repeated it and you'll see I always give you credit for it.
  449. 26:08Pretty similar to that's cool.
  450. 26:09But the recalibration that I felt that was necessary, that you helped me to see even better, was
  451. 26:17the starting point cannot be us.
  452. 26:20And if anything can be diagnosed as the epidemic of our current cultural context, it is the
  453. 26:27me-centeredness, even of much of professing Christ following, which I often make a delineation
  454. 26:33between churchy entity and Christianity.
  455. 26:36But oftentimes that delineation is,
  456. 26:39me soon and as versus God-centeredness.
  457. 26:42Why is it so important for us to have the proper starting point
  458. 26:46if we are endeavoring to implement what he requires of us?
  459. 26:49Yeah, so if you don't have the right starting point,
  460. 26:52if you don't begin with God, but you begin with yourself,
  461. 26:55what you find is you are beginning with the God anyway,
  462. 27:00and the God is you.
  463. 27:01And so, and that has always been Satan's little trick.
  464. 27:07It has always been his little trick.
  465. 27:09He did it with Eve in the garden.
  466. 27:13She knew who God was, but he wanted her to feel like she's God.
  467. 27:18Did God really say this?
  468. 27:21Why don't you reinterpret it in a better way?
  469. 27:24You be the explanation.
  470. 27:26Don't use his explanation.
  471. 27:27You use yours.
  472. 27:29So when you start with you, God always ends up being you.
  473. 27:35And we see that.
  474. 27:37And Romans one, we see the anatomy
  475. 27:40and unpacking of the rebellion.
  476. 27:42It begins with exchanging the truth of God for a lie
  477. 27:45and man worshiping himself first,
  478. 27:48even before you get to the images and the beasts,
  479. 27:50it starts with worshiping the God of self.
  480. 27:53Yeah, that's right.
  481. 27:55And so often I'm kind of segue into this
  482. 27:58and I've heard you speak on this,
  483. 28:00and I want you to take it wherever you wanna take it,
  484. 28:02but one of the missing pieces in modern day Christianity
  485. 28:07in our country is a necessity of godly men
  486. 28:11to lead our families, and all too often,
  487. 28:15I mean literally I had the conversation in NCHE,
  488. 28:18a North Carolina conference,
  489. 28:19and I know we both were in North Carolina,
  490. 28:21because I saw you running to a workshop
  491. 28:23when I was outside, and I did a presentation
  492. 28:25on the necessity of fathers leading their home,
  493. 28:28and there was a mom and a pastor's wife who was there
  494. 28:32who said that this is one of the things I'm facing,
  495. 28:36that when this is presented, there's such resentment
  496. 28:40from wives towards husbands who hadn't been leading.
  497. 28:44And so I see that as a necessary component
  498. 28:49of what God wants to have happened
  499. 28:50because he's articulated plainly in his word.
  500. 28:54What would you say about the necessity of Christian men
  501. 28:57to lead our families in righteousness?
  502. 28:59You know, it's interesting when you look at Ephesians 5,
  503. 29:04this isn't just a better way to run a home.
  504. 29:07This isn't just God saying, you know, it works out best
  505. 29:10when the man takes some kind of control.
  506. 29:14So, you know, try and work that out if you can.
  507. 29:16I'm just, you know, God's not our self-help book.
  508. 29:19What he's saying-
  509. 29:20Next practice is suggestions.
  510. 29:21Yeah.
  511. 29:23What he's saying is how you run your home
  512. 29:26is how you actually view Jesus Christ in his church.
  513. 29:30Because when Paul goes through Ephesians 5,
  514. 29:33he flip flops between Christ and the church
  515. 29:36and what a marriage should look like.
  516. 29:38All the way to the point where at the end he says,
  517. 29:40do you think I'm still talking about marriage?
  518. 29:42I'm talking about the church.
  519. 29:43And you're like, oh, well then what's the difference?
  520. 29:46And Paul would probably say, yeah, exactly.
  521. 29:48And so the necessity is not just it works out better.
  522. 29:52This is a theological work that men are expected
  523. 29:57to understand and then stand up and do.
  524. 30:01And I talk to men all the time who suffer from,
  525. 30:06I have been a child to my wife all these years,
  526. 30:10and she has learned to never trust me or respect me.
  527. 30:14And you're telling me today I can just turn all that around.
  528. 30:18And my answer is you can't make your wife
  529. 30:22start trusting you and respecting you in a second.
  530. 30:27But in a second, you can start leading
  531. 30:29because God does not command you to lead.
  532. 30:33He says, you're already the leader.
  533. 30:35All you've been doing so far is disobeying
  534. 30:38and you can start obeying right now.
  535. 30:41And so that's why it's a man.
  536. 30:42You make a fine point and I'll try to set this up this way.
  537. 30:46I've often described, you know, to the point that you just made, the command to husbands to lead is not a suggestion.
  538. 30:54It is in fact a command.
  539. 30:56In Ephesians, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of this, but the first half of Paul's Ephesians to the Ephesians is written in the indicative mood and grief.
  540. 31:03It's indicating, you know, who we are now that we, you know, we were once then trespassing since now you lay our life together.
  541. 31:08The second half is in written in the imperative.
  542. 31:10It's commands.
  543. 31:10Yeah.
  544. 31:11It's not a suggestion.
  545. 31:12It's command.
  546. 31:12So the refusal to obey is sinful.
  547. 31:15And the thing you just highlighted is that it is sinful for a Christian husband not to lead his family
  548. 31:23That's right
  549. 31:23And so I heard you first I heard it at this very conference last year doing a luncheon learn when you mentioned
  550. 31:29That for the earlier parts of your marriage you your your wife's oldest son
  551. 31:33Yeah, that's right. That is exactly right. Would you unpack that force a little bit?
  552. 31:38I'll just tell you have about maybe three minutes for this segment then we'll carry it over to the next segment
  553. 31:42Okay, so when we first got married, I was a complete and when he says we doesn't mean Abe in
  554. 31:49We believe the Bible here. That's right. That's right when my wife and I
  555. 31:53Doctor and Mrs. Rathbud. Yeah
  556. 31:56So yeah, when my wife and I first got married I
  557. 32:00I married I got married for the same reason most men get married. They think this woman will make me happy
  558. 32:05And I lived every decision on what would make me personally happy.
  559. 32:12And what made me happy is my wife doing the leading and me playing video games,
  560. 32:18being the child, waiting for her to take the lead so that I didn't have that responsibility.
  561. 32:24And I really did become her oldest son that she had to raise.
  562. 32:30And that's kind of what it led to.
  563. 32:33And until one day, everything changed.
  564. 32:37And I can tell that on the way back.
  565. 32:39You listen to the Hamilton Corner,
  566. 32:40my guest is Dr. Renton Rathbinn.
  567. 32:42We're just getting into him describing
  568. 32:45before the Lord opening his eyes.
  569. 32:47The earlier parts of his marriage, he was his wife's oldest son.
  570. 32:50His words, not mine, folks.
  571. 32:53I'm gonna invite him to kind of unpack that a bit further,
  572. 32:56even some of the features of eldest sonship.
  573. 32:59then the God breathed command to no longer sin
  574. 33:04by rebelling against His holy word.
  575. 33:05And then what it looks like when we make the humble,
  576. 33:11hard, and life-changing decision to finally obey God.
  577. 33:16And the results of obeying the King of Kings
  578. 33:20and the Lord of Lords.
  579. 33:21You don't want to miss the remainder of this program.
  580. 33:22Stay with us.
  581. 33:30I am thoroughly looking forward to our week in with AFA
  582. 33:32coming up in October where we're going to be able to meet
  583. 33:35Our supporters like yourself, the fellowship,
  584. 33:38to visit our facilities here in Jupyolow,
  585. 33:41and to have everyone come together for a wonderful weekend.
  586. 33:44It's a weekend with AFA, Thursday, October 2nd,
  587. 33:47through Saturday, October 4th, in Tupelo, Mississippi.
  588. 33:50Speakers will include Abraham Hamilton the 3rd,
  589. 33:53Jenna Ellis, Tim Barton, Tim Wildman, and more.
  590. 33:56Register at AFA.net slash weekend.
  591. 34:00Have you added AFR on Roku?
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  600. 34:26AFR on Roku, at it today.
  601. 34:28Men of the Word. This is David Wheaton, host of The Christian Royal View. You've heard
  602. 34:35about the War on Men and how our society seeks to emasculate men in order to stamp out
  603. 34:41what they consider toxic masculinity. At a more fundamental level, what animates this
  604. 34:46is a rejection of God and his design and role for men. The way back from this morass isn't
  605. 34:53as superficial as a dressing down by a drill sergeant or simply engaging in manly things,
  606. 34:58building big muscles. Being a godly man starts with renewing the mind. The Bible says, do
  607. 35:04not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Here are most
  608. 35:11recent programs on being a man of the word at TheChristianRealView.org and then join
  609. 35:16us this weekend for another topic that will sharpen your worldview.
  610. 35:21Listen to The Christian World View with David Wheaton, Saturday mornings at 8 Central on
  611. 35:25American Family Radio.
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  643. 37:00The Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets
  644. 37:07are available at afr.net.
  645. 37:10Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
  646. 37:15Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton
  647. 37:17the third here with Dr. Renton Rathbend.
  648. 37:20And before we went to the break, he began discussing
  649. 37:24how he recognized in his own life that he wasn't leading
  650. 37:28his family.
  651. 37:29properly until God opened his eyes and described it as being his wife's oldest son.
  652. 37:35So I invite you just to pick up from where you left off or to go ahead into describing
  653. 37:40some of the features of eldest sonship.
  654. 37:42Yeah, some of the features consist and this is where of course we're going to step on some
  655. 37:49toes but...
  656. 37:52That never happens here I promise you.
  657. 37:54Not true at all.
  658. 37:55Go ahead.
  659. 37:57But the idea of playing video games,
  660. 38:03the idea of having, if I can put it this way, play time
  661. 38:11with your friends.
  662. 38:14Nothing is directed.
  663. 38:16Nothing is intentional.
  664. 38:19Nothing actually is designed to help you grow as a man.
  665. 38:23It's merely designed to give you some kind of excitement or pleasure in the day.
  666. 38:29And that's what your wife is for as well.
  667. 38:31And if she stops, you know, if there's a problem between us, then there's a problem with her
  668. 38:37because the whole point of me marrying her was because she was going to make me happy
  669. 38:41and now I don't feel happy.
  670. 38:42And so like a child who didn't get what he wants, you start rebelling against it.
  671. 38:50So the Lord finally got a hold of my heart and it was because I think I
  672. 38:59wasn't even a Christian. I played the game of Christianity pretty well to the point
  673. 39:06where I kind of felt like I was a Christian but then right at the end the
  674. 39:12Lord just tore all of that away and said you don't even know my voice. I was
  675. 39:19I was hearing a sermon from John chapter 10,
  676. 39:23where the good shepherd says,
  677. 39:25my sheep hear my voice.
  678. 39:27And immediately I thought, that's not me.
  679. 39:29I don't know his voice.
  680. 39:31And immediately I was filled with conviction.
  681. 39:34I knew I had repented my sins.
  682. 39:37And then after the Lord got ahold of my heart,
  683. 39:40I knew I'd just start leading this home.
  684. 39:43I've been torturing my poor wife,
  685. 39:48Because a lot of women think that there's safety in finding a man that they can marry because
  686. 39:56he won't push me around and because everyone just automatically goes to abuse.
  687. 40:00And there are, yeah, and there are men like that.
  688. 40:03And I'm not trying to diminish that.
  689. 40:06But the response has been, let me find a man child that I can control and I will feel safe.
  690. 40:15And what he ends up doing is torturing that woman because he's making her take on a role
  691. 40:21that is unnatural, which is mommyhood for her husband.
  692. 40:27You even have heard you even describe I'm having a responsibility to checkbook.
  693. 40:33Yeah, this is where I really get guys that mad at me.
  694. 40:38I tell them if you really want to take the first step in leading the home, grab the checkbook
  695. 40:44And what I always hear is the guys will say,
  696. 40:48you know, she's so much better at that than I am.
  697. 40:50And I'm like, well, of course she is.
  698. 40:51She's probably better at most things than you are.
  699. 40:54And so all you need to do is understand
  700. 40:57that leadership really does begin
  701. 41:00with a very practical understanding of
  702. 41:03who has the vision for the home,
  703. 41:05has the perstrings of the home.
  704. 41:08And when you start having to control
  705. 41:12what is going on with your checkbook,
  706. 41:13you start really paying attention to what's going on in the home, and it relieves a huge
  707. 41:17burden off your wife.
  708. 41:19And a lot of guys don't like to hear that, but I really think that is the first step.
  709. 41:26So what was it like for you taking that first step?
  710. 41:34It was rough.
  711. 41:37So this dorky guy that was always trying to be the get-a-long guy who would mess up
  712. 41:46everything now says I want to be in charge. And so it scared her to death. She knew it was
  713. 41:51the right thing to do, but it scared her to death. And so we had to fight. We had to fight.
  714. 41:58And there were some doozies. And this is where men oftentimes give up because a lot of men
  715. 42:05think good leadership is peace. If I can just keep peace in the house, that is good leadership.
  716. 42:12And that's that Satan's favorite lie to men.
  717. 42:17Having to go to war and sometimes losing peace in the house is exactly what needs to happen
  718. 42:22if you're going to actually be a leader.
  719. 42:26And so we had to have a little lack of peace for a while, but the Lord helped me, the Lord
  720. 42:31helped her because we sought him first.
  721. 42:37So having taken this step, how would your wife describe things and how they operate now
  722. 42:47and since that point of you making that adjustment in your own home?
  723. 42:50Yeah, I think she would be so glad that we're not there anymore.
  724. 42:58I mean, but there's still mistakes made.
  725. 43:03I mess up sometimes and I forget to pay something.
  726. 43:06One time I paid our mortgage twice in one month.
  727. 43:10And there's no reward for that.
  728. 43:11I don't care what Ramsay says.
  729. 43:13There's no reward for doing that.
  730. 43:15It's terrible.
  731. 43:16You just have to eat ramen for the rest of the month.
  732. 43:20It was bad.
  733. 43:22But what it takes is incredible strength from your wife to be able to take those mistakes,
  734. 43:31take the times where I overreact or I'm trying to do too much or I start pulling back again
  735. 43:36and have the patience, because I'll tell you this,
  736. 43:39when Ephesians talks about submission,
  737. 43:41it's talking about one of,
  738. 43:43it's requiring something that takes incredible strength.
  739. 43:48Submission is not something that someone that weak,
  740. 43:51someone that who is weak does.
  741. 43:52Yeah.
  742. 43:53I think it's probably the,
  743. 43:55it requires the most strength of the relationship
  744. 43:58is to submit to someone who is sinful
  745. 44:01and makes mistakes,
  746. 44:03and probably not as talented as you are.
  747. 44:08And then you have to submit to that person.
  748. 44:10Man, how hard is that?
  749. 44:12And so the strength that you're requiring of your wife
  750. 44:15is absolutely incredible.
  751. 44:17And the Lord knows that.
  752. 44:18It's why he made that special creation called woman.
  753. 44:21Now making that adjustment,
  754. 44:23I've heard you talk about this as well,
  755. 44:25what was one of the most indispensable components of you
  756. 44:28making that transition to leading your family?
  757. 44:32and unsurprisingly, is connected to discipleship.
  758. 44:35Yeah, yeah, one of the most important things
  759. 44:38is actually trying to have some kind of worship
  760. 44:42in your home.
  761. 44:44I think that family worship,
  762. 44:47and I talk as a complete hypocrite,
  763. 44:50I do really well for a while,
  764. 44:51and things get busy or whatever,
  765. 44:54and we haven't had it for a while,
  766. 44:56and then I'm like, I gotta do that.
  767. 44:57And so we go back and,
  768. 44:58all right everybody, come on,
  769. 44:59we're gonna have a friend worship.
  770. 45:01and do all this stuff, you know, and I'm terrible at it,
  771. 45:04but you have to keep doing it.
  772. 45:10You have to be willing to be a hypocrite.
  773. 45:13And so you have to be able to say,
  774. 45:15okay everybody, we haven't done this in a while,
  775. 45:17and I know that I'm a giant hypocrite by doing this,
  776. 45:20but it's Friday, and I just remembered
  777. 45:23that we haven't done it in a while,
  778. 45:24so we're doing it today.
  779. 45:25We don't have time, but we're gonna do it,
  780. 45:26because what that does is you start realizing
  781. 45:30in that family worship,
  782. 45:31I'm actually mentoring my wife.
  783. 45:32I'm mentoring my kids because they're listening
  784. 45:37to how I speak to my God and how I speak about my God.
  785. 45:41And that's going to have more effect on them than anything.
  786. 45:46I've also heard you mentioned how vital it was
  787. 45:50for an older brother to come alongside
  788. 45:53and help you in that transition,
  789. 45:55which is I believe one of the major sources of warfare
  790. 45:58in the current church,
  791. 45:59Why wouldn't see it as frequent as we need to?
  792. 46:01Boy, that's the truth.
  793. 46:02His name was Bob Forney.
  794. 46:04He was an older man, very intelligent guy,
  795. 46:10was a leader where he worked.
  796. 46:12He worked in the medical field.
  797. 46:15Just an important man, he was an elder at our church.
  798. 46:18And for whatever reason, and this is,
  799. 46:21I have no, it's like Ephesians chapter one.
  800. 46:24I don't know why, but he predestined me to mentor me.
  801. 46:28And so he decided he was gonna, he was gonna mentor me.
  802. 46:31And he invested, I mean, every Monday we were meeting,
  803. 46:35every Monday morning we would meet no matter what.
  804. 46:39And I took full advantage of it.
  805. 46:44And like a fool, you know,
  806. 46:46cause young people are fools sometimes.
  807. 46:50Cause I was young at that point.
  808. 46:51And I just thought, I just thought, yeah, he's doing this.
  809. 46:55Cause you know, I'm a pretty important guy.
  810. 46:58of course he wants to mentor me,
  811. 47:00what a privilege it is for him.
  812. 47:02And what a blessing I am to your life.
  813. 47:04Every time we meet, I would go, you're welcome.
  814. 47:06But I mean, you never say that loud,
  815. 47:11but you just think, of course he would want to mentor me.
  816. 47:13But then when I look back, I think,
  817. 47:14you know, because I've mentored guys now
  818. 47:16and it's a pain, it's hard.
  819. 47:18It's terrible, they don't appreciate it.
  820. 47:19They think they're doing you a favor
  821. 47:21and you're like, no, I could be doing a thousand other things.
  822. 47:24You're the one that's messed up.
  823. 47:26And he took that kind of care with me and really loved me.
  824. 47:33And his love for me made me listen to him.
  825. 47:38He was a very intelligent guy,
  826. 47:39I had a lot of degrees, very important,
  827. 47:42but that's not what made me listen.
  828. 47:44What made me listen is I knew that man loved me.
  829. 47:48And if we have other men that take that kind of care
  830. 47:54in their mentorship and show real love,
  831. 47:56what you could have on your hands,
  832. 47:58what you could change in your own community,
  833. 48:03is incredible.
  834. 48:05That man, two years ago, that man got brain cancer,
  835. 48:09and within a few months passed away.
  836. 48:11It was fast.
  837. 48:14But his mark on me will never go away.
  838. 48:18For eternity, Bob Forney's mark is on me.
  839. 48:22So now the question is,
  840. 48:23who's going to take Bob's Fornies place.
  841. 48:27When I go away, who's gonna take my place?
  842. 48:29Who's gonna be replacing us?
  843. 48:31That's what, that is at the heart of mentorship,
  844. 48:34is always thinking, who's gonna replace us?
  845. 48:37We've got to start thinking that way.
  846. 48:39Man, so often people look to and want some form of program
  847. 48:43in order to accomplish the Lord's will,
  848. 48:45but it's not a program, it's the program.
  849. 48:48Yeah.
  850. 48:49It is, take these truths and entrust them into
  851. 48:53faithful men who are capable to go and teach others. It is the Bob Fornies of the world saying,
  852. 49:01man, God, you've allowed my path across with Dr. Rathbun. Let me get to know him,
  853. 49:06pour myself into him. Dr. Rathbun in turn turns and pours himself into another. And it's also one of
  854. 49:13the major reasons, and I know I've heard you talk about this as well, that anything within the local
  855. 49:19the local church context directed toward this happening with men is always fraught with opposition.
  856. 49:26Yes.
  857. 49:27And I'm confident it's because Satan knows that in order for the church to be what God ordained
  858. 49:35her to be, the men must meet the moment.
  859. 49:39Yes.
  860. 49:40Yeah, the minute you decide you're going to take a step to be a leader in the home or be
  861. 49:45a leader with another man to help him. Satan, you just got Satan's attention. The world is
  862. 49:53going to say, oh, you know, men trying to mentor men, who's trying to be another androotate or,
  863. 49:58you know, they just immediately try to downgrade whatever you're trying to do. What you'll find
  864. 50:04is that it won't work out as nicely as you thought. That will be another thing. The person
  865. 50:09that you're trying to mentor just isn't quite into it. They're not really listening. They,
  866. 50:14You've told them this a thousand times and then they go out and do that stupid thing again.
  867. 50:19And Satan will work all he can.
  868. 50:21He is desperate to keep men independent of each other and isolated.
  869. 50:27If Satan can isolate men and keep them distant from each other, he will have accomplished
  870. 50:34much.
  871. 50:35And what's the best way to keep men isolated?
  872. 50:38You keep them feeling guilty through pornography.
  873. 50:40keep them distracted through through some kind of screen, whether it be, you know,
  874. 50:45your cell phone or or even video games or whatever it is, you just keep trying
  875. 50:50different things to keep them isolated. The minute they come together, the minute
  876. 50:55men say let's work together and get this done, incredible things can happen.
  877. 51:00Incredible things. Which underscores one of the most vital things that we can do
  878. 51:07right now is get younger men with older men who are mature. I mean the scripture
  879. 51:15says a hoary head is a crown of life if it be found in the way of righteousness.
  880. 51:19Which conveys reality it's not automatic that it will be found in the way of
  881. 51:23righteousness. You know growing up I learned there's no food like an old food.
  882. 51:26That's right. That's right. But if we could get younger men connected especially
  883. 51:32within the phenomenon like the whole andruitate phenomenon in my opinion is
  884. 51:35is evidence of the vacuum that's prevalent in the church.
  885. 51:40But if we could have that connection restored,
  886. 51:43that what God really has ordained,
  887. 51:45we could see things change quickly.
  888. 51:47It won't have to be another 50 years heading in the wrong direction,
  889. 51:51but we can see rapid change.
  890. 51:53I'll give you the last word, 30 seconds.
  891. 51:55Yeah.
  892. 51:56Well, we have no pressure.
  893. 51:58Yeah, right.
  894. 51:59Well, just get out and do it.
  895. 52:03don't keep planning so much. Find that kid that's sitting in your church that has, even if they don't
  896. 52:10have potential, go up to them, have a lunch with them, just get it going. If you haven't started
  897. 52:15leading in your home, start today. Do not try and make a plan. Just start obeying now.
  898. 52:22Amen. Dr. Rathman, I can't wait to hear you. We're about to be on a panel together in about
  899. 52:26another five minutes. Yeah. And then we'll get to hang out for the rest of this weekend. Thank
  900. 52:30Thank you for tuning into the Hamilton Corner.
  901. 52:32We'll be back tomorrow, Lord willing.
  902. 52:34Same time, same station.
  903. 52:35You all have a great evening.
  904. 52:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast
  905. 52:42may not necessarily reflect those
  906. 52:44of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
  907. 52:49Say.

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