June 19, 2025 · 52:50

Dr. Renton Rathbun, host of “The Renton Rathbun Show,” returns to “The Corner.”

Religious Liberty

Show notes

0:00 - 15:00. Revelation 4:10-11. Our lives should depict our full-fledged agreement with the Eternal Worship Chorus. 15:00 - 31:00. Dr. Renton Rathbun, host of “The Renton Rathbun Show,” returns to “The Corner.” 31:00 - 48:00. “God has called Christian husbands to lead their homes” has become a cultural expletive in 21st century America. Nevertheless, it is divine instruction. | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345 To donate call : 877-616-2396

References & links

Phone lines mentioned

1-800-326-4543 ext. 345
877-616-2396

Full transcript Auto-generated · 8,974 words

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0:00The month of June has been hijacked by the anti-Christian culture to show their pride in
0:04something God calls and abomination.
0:06When you support AFR, you help us continue to stand for godly values and provide the resources
0:12for you to stay in the know about the enemy's tactics.
0:15To say thank you for your gift this month, we'll give you the booklet Inside the LGBTQ
0:20Push of the 1990s to help strengthen your convictions.
0:24Just go to AFR.net slash offers.
0:27AFR.net slash offers.
0:30Darkness is not her but a force
0:33Is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio?
0:41It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite
0:45Delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media
0:48And the philosophies of this world
0:50God has called you and me to be his ambassador
0:54Even in this dark moment
0:56Let's not miss our moment
0:58And now the Hamilton Corner
1:01Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton the third
1:09here. I am the host of this program. So grateful that you've joined me for this
1:14edition of Where in the World is Avedad? We are broadcasting live from the
1:19Cultureproof Conference 2025 in Bartlett, Tennessee that is going to be underway
1:26here in about an hour. It gets underway at 6 p.m. Tonight I have to actually rush
1:32from the show to be a part of one of the first presentations for the conference today.
1:38But we are grateful that you have joined us for the program. We'll be here tonight and tomorrow
1:43evening live from this conference. I just had the pleasure of meeting Alex Newman in person.
1:49Dr. Renton Rathbun is here. Is your way is here. Dr. Kathy Cook is here. Bishop Vincent
1:55Matthews is here. It's going to be an amazing, amazing time. I'm so looking forward to this
2:00conference but thank you so much for joining us here on the program at this
2:03very moment. Many of you, if not most of you are making your transition from your
2:07part-time jobs where you generate an income to your full-time jobs where you
2:11cultivate an outcome and as you do so I want to remind you to do so with
2:15intentionality. I know for a fact that there are heavy things transpiring in
2:20the world. I mean to bunker bust or not bunker bust that is a question. You know
2:26We have all kinds of things.
2:27Discrimedy case was decided yesterday.
2:30We'll get into that.
2:31Thank God for truth and sanity prevailing.
2:34And then, you know, I'm looking around,
2:36I'm making children around to hear me,
2:38but did you hear one of the dumbest things
2:40I've ever heard issued from the mouth of one whoopee?
2:45I guess I should pause whenever you start off with whoopee.
2:48As your first name is probably a whoopee.
2:50That's gonna come out.
2:51But although I don't think it was a whoopee
2:53from her standpoint, I think it was very intentional
2:55where she's talking about, oh well, well,
2:58that if Iranians say they,
3:02it feels like to be black in America,
3:04Iranians have the same oppression
3:06that black people in America face.
3:08Someone's like, Cole, you?
3:15Oh, you stupid.
3:18You are, you are, that's one of the most absurd things
3:22I ever heard.
3:24I guess let me say recently,
3:25because absurdities just happen to abound.
3:28Nevertheless, as you are making your way
3:30from your part-time jobs to your full-time jobs, remember,
3:36the first human institution that God established
3:37was the family with marriage at the center.
3:41The first command given the mankind was issued
3:44within the familial context.
3:46God did this intentionally.
3:49So as you're making your way to your full-time jobs,
3:51and for those who may be new to the program,
3:53I describe our income-generating capacities
3:55as our part time jobs, because they are important,
3:58but they are not synonymous with our identities.
4:01Our full time jobs, our full time job is outcome cultivation.
4:06For every believer, the Lord has called you to be a part
4:10of executing the Great Commission.
4:13The Great Commission is a disciple making commission,
4:17and we are all called to be a part of it.
4:19It's not like a special forces engagement.
4:24every believer's called to be involved in it.
4:26And my effort is to aid you in recalibrating your thought
4:33process.
4:34So often we think of ourselves and our culture
4:37intentionally works to get us to think of ourselves
4:40as being synonymous and identical with our income
4:43generating capacity.
4:44So that just simply is not the case.
4:46So as you're making your way from your part time jobs
4:49to your full time jobs, do so with intentionality.
4:52understand what you get to do.
4:56You get to be a part of executing the Kings Commission
5:00and it starts in our homes.
5:02The world works overtime to get us to neglect
5:06and to ignore the privilege and opportunity
5:08that we have to obey him starting in our homes
5:10with our families and in place significance
5:13and import on everything else.
5:17The home is not the exclusive context
5:19that God calls us to be faithful in.
5:21But it is a primary context and here's the unfortunate for some,
5:27but the fortunate truths for many others is that we don't get to repeat
5:34the formative years of our children.
5:35There are no mulligans when it pertains to our children.
5:39I've said before, my oldest is 14 now.
5:41I can't go back and do 10 years old again with him.
5:44I can't go back and do eight years old again with him.
5:47So what we seek to do, let us do quickly.
5:50To the word of God we go, Revelation chapter four is where I want to
5:53begin the program. This is actually the theme verse for the Culture Proof Conference, actually
5:59chapter 4 verse 11. But I'm going to start in verse 10 and go on to 11. This is by way
6:05of reminder for those who already know this, so this may be new to you. The book of Revelation
6:10actual Greek term is apocalypsis. A lot of times we think of apocalypse in terms of,
6:17oh my god, this is end of time, but the word apocalypse simply means to reveal. That's
6:20That's what it means.
6:21All right.
6:22And so the book of Revelation, there's no S at the end of that, by the way, put an S on
6:27the Psalms, but no S on Revelation.
6:31And this is the Apostle John recording the revelation of Jesus.
6:34Jesus is the one describing these things and showing these things to the Apostle John.
6:40And John is documenting what Jesus, what Yeshua is describing for Him.
6:46And in this portion of the book of Revelation, we're granted access behind the scenes if you
6:53will look into what heaven includes.
6:56All right, we get a look into what heaven includes.
7:00And this is a portion of the eternal worship chorus that is going on in heaven without a
7:06time clock.
7:07Y'all hear me talking about the disrespectful clock.
7:09Ain't no disrespectful clocks in eternity.
7:11I am looking forward to it.
7:13Revelation 4, verses 10 and 11.
7:19This is after the Apostle John records,
7:22the never ending song,
7:24holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,
7:27who was and is to come.
7:28Verse 10 says this,
7:30to 24 elders fall down before him,
7:34who is seated on the throne
7:37and worship him who lives forever and ever.
7:42They cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
7:46where they are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power for you created all things
7:58and by your will they exist and were created. The King James there says, and for your pleasure
8:05They are. This is a part of the eternal worship chorus and I always reflect on this passage in verse 10.
8:16We have the 24 elders that are casting their crowns at the feet of the one who is worthy.
8:23The one who is alone worthy of majesty and praise and exaltation.
8:29And they acclaim in unison that he truly is worthy.
8:35Our God is worthy.
8:37The simple fact guys is, you hear me say this all the time.
8:42Worship is due our King solely, I won't say solely.
8:49Because of who he is, he is worthy of our worship.
8:52But worship is not merely a ceremonial,
8:56organ accompanied phenomenon.
8:59When we sing songs of worship, that is an aspect
9:03of worship, but it is not the sum total of what worship is, guys.
9:09When we sing songs and hymns and spiritual songs
9:12to our Lord, that is an aspect of worship.
9:14When we delve into His holy word,
9:16that is an aspect of worship.
9:18When we gather with the saints and obedience
9:21to His word, that is an aspect of worship,
9:23but it's not the sum total of worship.
9:26The pinnacle of worship is obedience.
9:32When we see these beautifully written words
9:34and even singing the beautifully scored songs and hymns.
9:41What is the significance of the songs we sing?
9:44If the songs we sing don't echo the lives that we live.
9:49We declare God is worthy with our lips,
9:53but also with our legs and our feet.
9:57We declare God is worthy as we sing hymns on Sunday mornings.
10:01And if we declare God is worthy,
10:03when we show up for our income-generating capacity.
10:07on Monday mornings and Tuesday and and and we declare whether or not the Lord is worthy
10:12and how we treat the gas station attendant and we declare God is worthy. He is worthy in the way
10:17that if we have the opportunity to dine out how do we treat the waitstaff? You know,
10:23if our God truly is worthy as the scripture declares and as we often sing that worthiness will be
10:30evident in how we live. But the unfortunate reality all too often is that the song declaration of
10:39the wordiness of God is often contradicted by how we live. We can say with our lips, you know,
10:47worthy are you Lord, but with our lives we declare his unworthiness. And my simple encouragement today
10:53in particular is that we would live lifestyles that declare that affirm our song declarations
11:01of God's worthiness.
11:03You know, the scripture bears it out very plainly,
11:08that the love that we have for our Lord is indicated
11:11in how we interact with one another.
11:13What is the greatest commandment?
11:16Matthew 22, Jesus responds,
11:18with two, you are to love the Lord your God,
11:23with all your heart, all your soul,
11:26all your mind and your strength, right?
11:29This is a quotation from the Shma, the Jewish Shma,
11:31from Deuteronomy 6.
11:33then Jesus continues and the second is like it.
11:37You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
11:43One of the most profound ways we can love our neighbor
11:51is if we have a neighbor who doesn't know the Lord
11:55to share the gospel with them.
11:58How can we know that eternity is real?
12:05How can we know that eternal life is real?
12:07is real, how could we know that eternal damnation is real and
12:10profess the love God, but not love our neighbor sufficiently to
12:13at some point to communicate to them the reality of eternity.
12:19How can we? You know, I've been reflecting on the life and
12:23testimony of Rosaria Butterfield. And I've been talking about
12:26this. I even mentioned this at the AFA summit last week, my
12:31keynote presentation that Rosaria Butterfield was really the
12:37the poster child, if you will, for frankly, the sexual divinity,
12:45she's a social political agenda.
12:46She was a brilliant college professor, living a lesbian lifestyle,
12:51professing to have a committed relationship that the scripture
12:55declares to be sinful, abominable.
12:58And she was asked, what led to you coming to know Jesus as Savior
13:02and Lord?
13:04And she said, 500 meals with an older Christian couple,
13:08500 meals with a tangible witness of God's worthiness
13:16was made evident in their interaction with their neighbor.
13:20So often we think about menish being this kind of big name
13:23and lights kind of phenomenon when really
13:26menish is being loving to the nearest one.
13:28By the way, we're neighboring Greek literally just means
13:30the nearest one, the one who is nearest.
13:33That's what literally what it means.
13:35And the scripture goes on when Jesus makes that quote,
13:38the great commandment we give him to,
13:40love the Lord your God with your heart,
13:41So mine is strength and love your neighbor as yourself.
13:42Then he said on these two, hang the entirety, the entirety of the law.
13:55Guys, people making fun of me, the gas station attended.
13:59Man, I'm not talking about just the person who you have to pump.
14:01I'm talking about the person who you pay your money to if you have to go inside to
14:04come on people.
14:08But guys, that's the reality.
14:11You know, and the beauty of being an ambassador for Christ, the disciple
14:15make a phenomenon is that it's a feature of multiplication.
14:19You know, one, disciple of Christ,
14:20invests in making a second disciple of Christ,
14:23and then two, then both of those continue that process.
14:26Then one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes 16.
14:32And the multiplication continues in that fashion.
14:36But if God is truly worthy to us,
14:39it would be reflected in the way that we live.
14:44My encouragement for us is not to be those who would verbally,
14:48who will only profess verbally the wordiness of our God,
14:51but that we would likewise live the wordiness of our God.
14:57And as long as there's breath in our lungs,
15:01and the Lord has not yet returned in glory,
15:03as the scripture describes He will do,
15:05then you and I must be about the Father's business,
15:08and it is our pleasure to do so.
15:12He truly is worthy of glory and honor and power
15:17and power. May we live as if He truly is worthy.
15:30A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
15:33The Lord Jesus, He's a providing shepherd.
15:35He's a guiding shepherd.
15:37He's a restoring shepherd. He's a present shepherd.
15:40He's an almighty shepherd, a comforting shepherd,
15:44a protecting shepherd, an anointing shepherd,
15:47a shepherd that can be trusted and an eternal shepherd as well.
15:51Father, thank you for being our good and great shepherd, a shepherd that helps us in every area
15:58of our life. Father, anoint the minds, ears, heart and understanding of every listener with
16:03a fresh anointing that we would in a much greater way know how to take the wonderful and powerful
16:09word of God and use it like the weapon that it is to walk forward in victory every single day.
16:15They help us to be wise enough to not only memorize Psalm 23,
16:19but to speak it and to stand on it and confess it
16:22as the weapon that it is, as we speak your word
16:26in all the circumstances of life.
16:35Shiting light into the darkness,
16:37this is the Hamilton Corner, an American family radio.
16:41Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham,
16:43Hamilton III here, and I am delighted to have seated
16:47at the table with me, a brother who I have stalked.
16:50Not literally, but it's become literal and recently here.
16:54It seems like wherever he pops up, I pop up.
16:57We're here at the Culture Proof Conference 2025,
16:59and my guest is none other than,
17:02and I've introduced him to this audience before,
17:04to our audience here.
17:05A brother who's been a great blessing to me personally,
17:08who the Lord has used mightily to minister to me from a distance,
17:11and even more so up close and person.
17:14I heard him live last year a couple times.
17:16And I'm excited to hear him again.
17:18And I'm speaking none other than Dr. Renton Rathbend,
17:21who has been a classroom teacher for over 25 years.
17:24His experience has included both secular and Christian colleges
17:28and universities.
17:29He speaks on biblical worldview and apologetics
17:31across the country, as well as podcasts, radio, and TV,
17:34even his own podcast now.
17:36The Renton Rathbend Show.
17:38And he trains faculty, administrators, and families
17:40in biblical worldview all over the country.
17:43He holds a bachelor's in English education,
17:45a master's in interpretive speech.
17:48He's also received an MFA in creative writing
17:52from Minnesota State University.
17:54And a master's in philosophy, man,
17:55you have been a professional student for a long time.
17:57That's better than working.
17:59And a master's in theology
18:03from Puritan Reform Theological Seminary.
18:04He has a doctorate, a PhD in apologetics
18:07from Westminster Theological Seminary.
18:09And he has the spiritual gift of telling you the truth
18:13and kneeling you with it.
18:15which I personally appreciate.
18:16Dr. Rathman, thank you for joining me here
18:18on The Hamilton Corner.
18:19Thanks for having me, it's great to be here.
18:21Oh man, the pleasure is mine, certainly.
18:24And I want to kind of pick up at the end of your bio
18:27because I know last time you were on the program
18:29you were director of World View at Bob Jones University.
18:32And I know you've worked with them in BJU Press in the past.
18:36And now, instead of the Invasion podcast,
18:39you have the Renton Rathman Show.
18:43So how can the people here watching and listening,
18:46keep up with what God is doing with you,
18:48which I certainly will recommend to you listening
18:50and watching that you need to keep up
18:52with what Dr. Rathbun is doing with Dr. Rathbun,
18:55because he's a blessing to the body of Christ.
18:57Simply put, he's a blessing to the body of Christ.
18:59How can folks keep up with you?
19:00Absolutely, yeah.
19:01Go to Renton Rathbun.com,
19:04R-E-N-T-O-N, R-A-T-H-B-U-N.com.
19:08And you'll find my stuff there.
19:10You can find the Renton Rathbun Show on any of the podcasting that you use on your own.
19:17We're on all the platforms that I know of anyway.
19:20But yeah, you can find me there.
19:23I actually went to BGU Press.
19:29And I went to their president and I said, is there anyone in BGU Press that's just dedicated
19:36to parents, especially homeschooling parents?
19:40You know, not trying to sell them anything, but just trying to give them help.
19:44And they said, no, and I said, could we do that?
19:47I said, you know, you guys got a lot of money.
19:49So, let me do that.
19:52And so, that's what I'm doing.
19:54We started this new arm of it called, of BGU Press, called Home Front.
20:00And it's Home Front for Families.
20:02And we try to provide as much free stuff for parents as we can to help them.
20:08that is my podcast, The Renton Rathbun Show.
20:11But we also have articles and every time I speak
20:15we try to get them free stuff.
20:16And so that's what we're trying to do now.
20:18And that's wonderful.
20:19Can I ask what is it that led you to want
20:22to provide a resource for homeschooling families?
20:26Yeah, I want this particular form of resource.
20:28Yeah, I noticed that people have stuff
20:32that they're trying to sell.
20:33And they've come up with good stuff
20:35and they're trying to sell things.
20:38B.J. Oppress is trying to sell their books,
20:40but there's no one that's just dedicated to help.
20:44Like you don't have anything in the game
20:48trying to get them to lead them somewhere.
20:50You just wanna help them.
20:52And I thought, how do you take advantage
20:56of a company that's doing really well
20:59to help you get to families?
21:02And so they agreed to do it.
21:05And we're a homeschooling family.
21:08And it's really for anyone that's a parent.
21:12But I really was burdened for that
21:15because I just thought, if you have time,
21:19I can tell you a little story.
21:21Well, I love story time with Dr. Rynk Grant.
21:25So I'm teaching a class at a Christian university.
21:30and I'm standing there, you know, doing my best.
21:34I mean, you know, I'm not bragging,
21:35but I can make stuff happen.
21:38Well, whenever you start off with, I'm not bragging,
21:40but what?
21:41Well, someone has to.
21:44So, I'm sitting there doing my, you know, tap dancing
21:48and doing all this great stuff for these kids.
21:51And, you know, it's a Bible class.
21:53We're talking about God.
21:55We're talking about, you know,
21:57what it means to defend God's word.
21:59I mean, it's exciting stuff and I'm looking around
22:03and I'm just looking at these dead-eyed stairs.
22:06It's not that they were upset or frustrated,
22:10they just didn't care.
22:13And I Christian school?
22:14Yeah.
22:15And I just thought, where can we start?
22:20Long before college comes, where can we start
22:23to help kids, help families, help their kids?
22:27Long before their habits of being bored with God
22:31have already set in, where can we get them earlier?
22:34And that's, it was standing there staring at those kids
22:37that I realized I need to do something
22:39that will help parents way before we get to this point.
22:43And that's really what kind of pushed me into
22:47home front for families.
22:49So that's what it's called, home front for families.
22:52Yeah.
22:53So we start a website, it's homefrontfamilies.com.
22:58We're still building that up, probably RentonRathpen.com
23:01has more resources right now.
23:03We're still kinda building it.
23:05It's very new.
23:07It's so new that the website is still being built.
23:10But that's what we wanted.
23:13We wanted something that has no dog in the fight
23:19as far as trying to get you to buy something.
23:21We just wanna help.
23:22and that's what we're doing.
23:24And I was joking with you earlier,
23:25but I'll tell you guys, Dr. Rathbun
23:26is one of the most profound and excellent teachers
23:29and communicators I've ever heard.
23:30And I'm not un-meaning and I'm trying to gas you up,
23:33you know, hit it big enough already, I'm just kidding.
23:36No, but it's just the truth, you know,
23:37he's, I've been at conferences where I was scheduled to speak
23:41and you were scheduled to speak
23:42and I made sure my schedule allowed me to come and hear you.
23:45Honestly, just because you've been a blessing
23:48to the body of Christ, you've been a blessing to my family,
23:51You know, we are also homeschool family
23:53and one of the things, and I didn't tell you,
23:54I was gonna ask you this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway,
23:56is how you've recalibrated the definition
24:00of biblical worldview.
24:02You don't know this, but we were at the
24:04ICHE Conference in Illinois, not about two weeks ago.
24:10And my wife did a presentation on why
24:12it's important to teach apologetics to children,
24:15but she referred to you, you know,
24:16and she put your picture up and said,
24:17you guys know Dr. Rathbine?
24:19Well, you know, you need to know, you know?
24:21And the recalibration of biblical worldview is one of the things that God has
24:27allowed you to do, which is, in my opinion, the best definition of biblical
24:31worldview that exists conceptually, but even more so in application. So would you
24:36just, for those who may not be familiar, describe how you define biblical worldview?
24:41Well, what I got frustrated with was for many years I heard people describe
24:47biblical worldview and then say that's the definition. And so they told me what
24:52biblical worldview does. So they would say it's when you use God's word to to
24:58interpret the world and you're like okay but what is it? And so what we what we
25:05wanted to do was start not with us not with how I interpret the world but how does
25:10God how do we start with God? So so with a with our definition of biblical
25:16worldview, it is God's explanation of God's word, that we find out through His word for
25:28His image-bearers. And so God's explanation of God's word, of God's word, through His word
25:36and His word is for His image-bearers. And then when you want to know what to do with
25:40it, you just turn the whole thing around. You start with image-bearers. You say God's image-bearers
25:45use God's word to interpret God's world so that it can align, they can align with his
25:51explanation of his world.
25:53And that was so profound to me because you rightly diagnosed, it's just, that's me writing
26:00it down.
26:01I know what it says because I wrote it down when I heard you hit the first time and I've
26:05kept it and I've repeated it and you'll see I always give you credit for it.
26:08Pretty similar to that's cool.
26:09But the recalibration that I felt that was necessary, that you helped me to see even better, was
26:17the starting point cannot be us.
26:20And if anything can be diagnosed as the epidemic of our current cultural context, it is the
26:27me-centeredness, even of much of professing Christ following, which I often make a delineation
26:33between churchy entity and Christianity.
26:36But oftentimes that delineation is,
26:39me soon and as versus God-centeredness.
26:42Why is it so important for us to have the proper starting point
26:46if we are endeavoring to implement what he requires of us?
26:49Yeah, so if you don't have the right starting point,
26:52if you don't begin with God, but you begin with yourself,
26:55what you find is you are beginning with the God anyway,
27:00and the God is you.
27:01And so, and that has always been Satan's little trick.
27:07It has always been his little trick.
27:09He did it with Eve in the garden.
27:13She knew who God was, but he wanted her to feel like she's God.
27:18Did God really say this?
27:21Why don't you reinterpret it in a better way?
27:24You be the explanation.
27:26Don't use his explanation.
27:27You use yours.
27:29So when you start with you, God always ends up being you.
27:35And we see that.
27:37And Romans one, we see the anatomy
27:40and unpacking of the rebellion.
27:42It begins with exchanging the truth of God for a lie
27:45and man worshiping himself first,
27:48even before you get to the images and the beasts,
27:50it starts with worshiping the God of self.
27:53Yeah, that's right.
27:55And so often I'm kind of segue into this
27:58and I've heard you speak on this,
28:00and I want you to take it wherever you wanna take it,
28:02but one of the missing pieces in modern day Christianity
28:07in our country is a necessity of godly men
28:11to lead our families, and all too often,
28:15I mean literally I had the conversation in NCHE,
28:18a North Carolina conference,
28:19and I know we both were in North Carolina,
28:21because I saw you running to a workshop
28:23when I was outside, and I did a presentation
28:25on the necessity of fathers leading their home,
28:28and there was a mom and a pastor's wife who was there
28:32who said that this is one of the things I'm facing,
28:36that when this is presented, there's such resentment
28:40from wives towards husbands who hadn't been leading.
28:44And so I see that as a necessary component
28:49of what God wants to have happened
28:50because he's articulated plainly in his word.
28:54What would you say about the necessity of Christian men
28:57to lead our families in righteousness?
28:59You know, it's interesting when you look at Ephesians 5,
29:04this isn't just a better way to run a home.
29:07This isn't just God saying, you know, it works out best
29:10when the man takes some kind of control.
29:14So, you know, try and work that out if you can.
29:16I'm just, you know, God's not our self-help book.
29:19What he's saying-
29:20Next practice is suggestions.
29:21Yeah.
29:23What he's saying is how you run your home
29:26is how you actually view Jesus Christ in his church.
29:30Because when Paul goes through Ephesians 5,
29:33he flip flops between Christ and the church
29:36and what a marriage should look like.
29:38All the way to the point where at the end he says,
29:40do you think I'm still talking about marriage?
29:42I'm talking about the church.
29:43And you're like, oh, well then what's the difference?
29:46And Paul would probably say, yeah, exactly.
29:48And so the necessity is not just it works out better.
29:52This is a theological work that men are expected
29:57to understand and then stand up and do.
30:01And I talk to men all the time who suffer from,
30:06I have been a child to my wife all these years,
30:10and she has learned to never trust me or respect me.
30:14And you're telling me today I can just turn all that around.
30:18And my answer is you can't make your wife
30:22start trusting you and respecting you in a second.
30:27But in a second, you can start leading
30:29because God does not command you to lead.
30:33He says, you're already the leader.
30:35All you've been doing so far is disobeying
30:38and you can start obeying right now.
30:41And so that's why it's a man.
30:42You make a fine point and I'll try to set this up this way.
30:46I've often described, you know, to the point that you just made, the command to husbands to lead is not a suggestion.
30:54It is in fact a command.
30:56In Ephesians, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of this, but the first half of Paul's Ephesians to the Ephesians is written in the indicative mood and grief.
31:03It's indicating, you know, who we are now that we, you know, we were once then trespassing since now you lay our life together.
31:08The second half is in written in the imperative.
31:10It's commands.
31:10Yeah.
31:11It's not a suggestion.
31:12It's command.
31:12So the refusal to obey is sinful.
31:15And the thing you just highlighted is that it is sinful for a Christian husband not to lead his family
31:23That's right
31:23And so I heard you first I heard it at this very conference last year doing a luncheon learn when you mentioned
31:29That for the earlier parts of your marriage you your your wife's oldest son
31:33Yeah, that's right. That is exactly right. Would you unpack that force a little bit?
31:38I'll just tell you have about maybe three minutes for this segment then we'll carry it over to the next segment
31:42Okay, so when we first got married, I was a complete and when he says we doesn't mean Abe in
31:49We believe the Bible here. That's right. That's right when my wife and I
31:53Doctor and Mrs. Rathbud. Yeah
31:56So yeah, when my wife and I first got married I
32:00I married I got married for the same reason most men get married. They think this woman will make me happy
32:05And I lived every decision on what would make me personally happy.
32:12And what made me happy is my wife doing the leading and me playing video games,
32:18being the child, waiting for her to take the lead so that I didn't have that responsibility.
32:24And I really did become her oldest son that she had to raise.
32:30And that's kind of what it led to.
32:33And until one day, everything changed.
32:37And I can tell that on the way back.
32:39You listen to the Hamilton Corner,
32:40my guest is Dr. Renton Rathbinn.
32:42We're just getting into him describing
32:45before the Lord opening his eyes.
32:47The earlier parts of his marriage, he was his wife's oldest son.
32:50His words, not mine, folks.
32:53I'm gonna invite him to kind of unpack that a bit further,
32:56even some of the features of eldest sonship.
32:59then the God breathed command to no longer sin
33:04by rebelling against His holy word.
33:05And then what it looks like when we make the humble,
33:11hard, and life-changing decision to finally obey God.
33:16And the results of obeying the King of Kings
33:20and the Lord of Lords.
33:21You don't want to miss the remainder of this program.
33:22Stay with us.
33:30I am thoroughly looking forward to our week in with AFA
33:32coming up in October where we're going to be able to meet
33:35Our supporters like yourself, the fellowship,
33:38to visit our facilities here in Jupyolow,
33:41and to have everyone come together for a wonderful weekend.
33:44It's a weekend with AFA, Thursday, October 2nd,
33:47through Saturday, October 4th, in Tupelo, Mississippi.
33:50Speakers will include Abraham Hamilton the 3rd,
33:53Jenna Ellis, Tim Barton, Tim Wildman, and more.
33:56Register at AFA.net slash weekend.
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34:18AFR on Roku is another way to stay informed, equipped, and motivated
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34:26AFR on Roku, at it today.
34:28Men of the Word. This is David Wheaton, host of The Christian Royal View. You've heard
34:35about the War on Men and how our society seeks to emasculate men in order to stamp out
34:41what they consider toxic masculinity. At a more fundamental level, what animates this
34:46is a rejection of God and his design and role for men. The way back from this morass isn't
34:53as superficial as a dressing down by a drill sergeant or simply engaging in manly things,
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37:10Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
37:15Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton
37:17the third here with Dr. Renton Rathbend.
37:20And before we went to the break, he began discussing
37:24how he recognized in his own life that he wasn't leading
37:28his family.
37:29properly until God opened his eyes and described it as being his wife's oldest son.
37:35So I invite you just to pick up from where you left off or to go ahead into describing
37:40some of the features of eldest sonship.
37:42Yeah, some of the features consist and this is where of course we're going to step on some
37:49toes but...
37:52That never happens here I promise you.
37:54Not true at all.
37:55Go ahead.
37:57But the idea of playing video games,
38:03the idea of having, if I can put it this way, play time
38:11with your friends.
38:14Nothing is directed.
38:16Nothing is intentional.
38:19Nothing actually is designed to help you grow as a man.
38:23It's merely designed to give you some kind of excitement or pleasure in the day.
38:29And that's what your wife is for as well.
38:31And if she stops, you know, if there's a problem between us, then there's a problem with her
38:37because the whole point of me marrying her was because she was going to make me happy
38:41and now I don't feel happy.
38:42And so like a child who didn't get what he wants, you start rebelling against it.
38:50So the Lord finally got a hold of my heart and it was because I think I
38:59wasn't even a Christian. I played the game of Christianity pretty well to the point
39:06where I kind of felt like I was a Christian but then right at the end the
39:12Lord just tore all of that away and said you don't even know my voice. I was
39:19I was hearing a sermon from John chapter 10,
39:23where the good shepherd says,
39:25my sheep hear my voice.
39:27And immediately I thought, that's not me.
39:29I don't know his voice.
39:31And immediately I was filled with conviction.
39:34I knew I had repented my sins.
39:37And then after the Lord got ahold of my heart,
39:40I knew I'd just start leading this home.
39:43I've been torturing my poor wife,
39:48Because a lot of women think that there's safety in finding a man that they can marry because
39:56he won't push me around and because everyone just automatically goes to abuse.
40:00And there are, yeah, and there are men like that.
40:03And I'm not trying to diminish that.
40:06But the response has been, let me find a man child that I can control and I will feel safe.
40:15And what he ends up doing is torturing that woman because he's making her take on a role
40:21that is unnatural, which is mommyhood for her husband.
40:27You even have heard you even describe I'm having a responsibility to checkbook.
40:33Yeah, this is where I really get guys that mad at me.
40:38I tell them if you really want to take the first step in leading the home, grab the checkbook
40:44And what I always hear is the guys will say,
40:48you know, she's so much better at that than I am.
40:50And I'm like, well, of course she is.
40:51She's probably better at most things than you are.
40:54And so all you need to do is understand
40:57that leadership really does begin
41:00with a very practical understanding of
41:03who has the vision for the home,
41:05has the perstrings of the home.
41:08And when you start having to control
41:12what is going on with your checkbook,
41:13you start really paying attention to what's going on in the home, and it relieves a huge
41:17burden off your wife.
41:19And a lot of guys don't like to hear that, but I really think that is the first step.
41:26So what was it like for you taking that first step?
41:34It was rough.
41:37So this dorky guy that was always trying to be the get-a-long guy who would mess up
41:46everything now says I want to be in charge. And so it scared her to death. She knew it was
41:51the right thing to do, but it scared her to death. And so we had to fight. We had to fight.
41:58And there were some doozies. And this is where men oftentimes give up because a lot of men
42:05think good leadership is peace. If I can just keep peace in the house, that is good leadership.
42:12And that's that Satan's favorite lie to men.
42:17Having to go to war and sometimes losing peace in the house is exactly what needs to happen
42:22if you're going to actually be a leader.
42:26And so we had to have a little lack of peace for a while, but the Lord helped me, the Lord
42:31helped her because we sought him first.
42:37So having taken this step, how would your wife describe things and how they operate now
42:47and since that point of you making that adjustment in your own home?
42:50Yeah, I think she would be so glad that we're not there anymore.
42:58I mean, but there's still mistakes made.
43:03I mess up sometimes and I forget to pay something.
43:06One time I paid our mortgage twice in one month.
43:10And there's no reward for that.
43:11I don't care what Ramsay says.
43:13There's no reward for doing that.
43:15It's terrible.
43:16You just have to eat ramen for the rest of the month.
43:20It was bad.
43:22But what it takes is incredible strength from your wife to be able to take those mistakes,
43:31take the times where I overreact or I'm trying to do too much or I start pulling back again
43:36and have the patience, because I'll tell you this,
43:39when Ephesians talks about submission,
43:41it's talking about one of,
43:43it's requiring something that takes incredible strength.
43:48Submission is not something that someone that weak,
43:51someone that who is weak does.
43:52Yeah.
43:53I think it's probably the,
43:55it requires the most strength of the relationship
43:58is to submit to someone who is sinful
44:01and makes mistakes,
44:03and probably not as talented as you are.
44:08And then you have to submit to that person.
44:10Man, how hard is that?
44:12And so the strength that you're requiring of your wife
44:15is absolutely incredible.
44:17And the Lord knows that.
44:18It's why he made that special creation called woman.
44:21Now making that adjustment,
44:23I've heard you talk about this as well,
44:25what was one of the most indispensable components of you
44:28making that transition to leading your family?
44:32and unsurprisingly, is connected to discipleship.
44:35Yeah, yeah, one of the most important things
44:38is actually trying to have some kind of worship
44:42in your home.
44:44I think that family worship,
44:47and I talk as a complete hypocrite,
44:50I do really well for a while,
44:51and things get busy or whatever,
44:54and we haven't had it for a while,
44:56and then I'm like, I gotta do that.
44:57And so we go back and,
44:58all right everybody, come on,
44:59we're gonna have a friend worship.
45:01and do all this stuff, you know, and I'm terrible at it,
45:04but you have to keep doing it.
45:10You have to be willing to be a hypocrite.
45:13And so you have to be able to say,
45:15okay everybody, we haven't done this in a while,
45:17and I know that I'm a giant hypocrite by doing this,
45:20but it's Friday, and I just remembered
45:23that we haven't done it in a while,
45:24so we're doing it today.
45:25We don't have time, but we're gonna do it,
45:26because what that does is you start realizing
45:30in that family worship,
45:31I'm actually mentoring my wife.
45:32I'm mentoring my kids because they're listening
45:37to how I speak to my God and how I speak about my God.
45:41And that's going to have more effect on them than anything.
45:46I've also heard you mentioned how vital it was
45:50for an older brother to come alongside
45:53and help you in that transition,
45:55which is I believe one of the major sources of warfare
45:58in the current church,
45:59Why wouldn't see it as frequent as we need to?
46:01Boy, that's the truth.
46:02His name was Bob Forney.
46:04He was an older man, very intelligent guy,
46:10was a leader where he worked.
46:12He worked in the medical field.
46:15Just an important man, he was an elder at our church.
46:18And for whatever reason, and this is,
46:21I have no, it's like Ephesians chapter one.
46:24I don't know why, but he predestined me to mentor me.
46:28And so he decided he was gonna, he was gonna mentor me.
46:31And he invested, I mean, every Monday we were meeting,
46:35every Monday morning we would meet no matter what.
46:39And I took full advantage of it.
46:44And like a fool, you know,
46:46cause young people are fools sometimes.
46:50Cause I was young at that point.
46:51And I just thought, I just thought, yeah, he's doing this.
46:55Cause you know, I'm a pretty important guy.
46:58of course he wants to mentor me,
47:00what a privilege it is for him.
47:02And what a blessing I am to your life.
47:04Every time we meet, I would go, you're welcome.
47:06But I mean, you never say that loud,
47:11but you just think, of course he would want to mentor me.
47:13But then when I look back, I think,
47:14you know, because I've mentored guys now
47:16and it's a pain, it's hard.
47:18It's terrible, they don't appreciate it.
47:19They think they're doing you a favor
47:21and you're like, no, I could be doing a thousand other things.
47:24You're the one that's messed up.
47:26And he took that kind of care with me and really loved me.
47:33And his love for me made me listen to him.
47:38He was a very intelligent guy,
47:39I had a lot of degrees, very important,
47:42but that's not what made me listen.
47:44What made me listen is I knew that man loved me.
47:48And if we have other men that take that kind of care
47:54in their mentorship and show real love,
47:56what you could have on your hands,
47:58what you could change in your own community,
48:03is incredible.
48:05That man, two years ago, that man got brain cancer,
48:09and within a few months passed away.
48:11It was fast.
48:14But his mark on me will never go away.
48:18For eternity, Bob Forney's mark is on me.
48:22So now the question is,
48:23who's going to take Bob's Fornies place.
48:27When I go away, who's gonna take my place?
48:29Who's gonna be replacing us?
48:31That's what, that is at the heart of mentorship,
48:34is always thinking, who's gonna replace us?
48:37We've got to start thinking that way.
48:39Man, so often people look to and want some form of program
48:43in order to accomplish the Lord's will,
48:45but it's not a program, it's the program.
48:48Yeah.
48:49It is, take these truths and entrust them into
48:53faithful men who are capable to go and teach others. It is the Bob Fornies of the world saying,
49:01man, God, you've allowed my path across with Dr. Rathbun. Let me get to know him,
49:06pour myself into him. Dr. Rathbun in turn turns and pours himself into another. And it's also one of
49:13the major reasons, and I know I've heard you talk about this as well, that anything within the local
49:19the local church context directed toward this happening with men is always fraught with opposition.
49:26Yes.
49:27And I'm confident it's because Satan knows that in order for the church to be what God ordained
49:35her to be, the men must meet the moment.
49:39Yes.
49:40Yeah, the minute you decide you're going to take a step to be a leader in the home or be
49:45a leader with another man to help him. Satan, you just got Satan's attention. The world is
49:53going to say, oh, you know, men trying to mentor men, who's trying to be another androotate or,
49:58you know, they just immediately try to downgrade whatever you're trying to do. What you'll find
50:04is that it won't work out as nicely as you thought. That will be another thing. The person
50:09that you're trying to mentor just isn't quite into it. They're not really listening. They,
50:14You've told them this a thousand times and then they go out and do that stupid thing again.
50:19And Satan will work all he can.
50:21He is desperate to keep men independent of each other and isolated.
50:27If Satan can isolate men and keep them distant from each other, he will have accomplished
50:34much.
50:35And what's the best way to keep men isolated?
50:38You keep them feeling guilty through pornography.
50:40keep them distracted through through some kind of screen, whether it be, you know,
50:45your cell phone or or even video games or whatever it is, you just keep trying
50:50different things to keep them isolated. The minute they come together, the minute
50:55men say let's work together and get this done, incredible things can happen.
51:00Incredible things. Which underscores one of the most vital things that we can do
51:07right now is get younger men with older men who are mature. I mean the scripture
51:15says a hoary head is a crown of life if it be found in the way of righteousness.
51:19Which conveys reality it's not automatic that it will be found in the way of
51:23righteousness. You know growing up I learned there's no food like an old food.
51:26That's right. That's right. But if we could get younger men connected especially
51:32within the phenomenon like the whole andruitate phenomenon in my opinion is
51:35is evidence of the vacuum that's prevalent in the church.
51:40But if we could have that connection restored,
51:43that what God really has ordained,
51:45we could see things change quickly.
51:47It won't have to be another 50 years heading in the wrong direction,
51:51but we can see rapid change.
51:53I'll give you the last word, 30 seconds.
51:55Yeah.
51:56Well, we have no pressure.
51:58Yeah, right.
51:59Well, just get out and do it.
52:03don't keep planning so much. Find that kid that's sitting in your church that has, even if they don't
52:10have potential, go up to them, have a lunch with them, just get it going. If you haven't started
52:15leading in your home, start today. Do not try and make a plan. Just start obeying now.
52:22Amen. Dr. Rathman, I can't wait to hear you. We're about to be on a panel together in about
52:26another five minutes. Yeah. And then we'll get to hang out for the rest of this weekend. Thank
52:30Thank you for tuning into the Hamilton Corner.
52:32We'll be back tomorrow, Lord willing.
52:34Same time, same station.
52:35You all have a great evening.
52:40The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast
52:42may not necessarily reflect those
52:44of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
52:49Say.

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