Alex McFarland welcomes Richard Harris from the Truth and Liberty Coalition to talk about current events affecting the church and Christian freedoms.

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:33I'm sure you've heard the quote by the famed colonial era voice, Edmund Burke.
12. 0:40The quote attributed actually there have been a few, but one of which is this.
13. 0:43Edmund Burke said, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
14. 0:50Well, welcome to the program.
15. 0:52Alex McFarland sitting in for attorney, pastor, broadcaster, Abe Hamilton the third.
16. 0:57We've got a great show.
17. 0:58one thing, there's a lot in the headlines to talk about, not only from a spiritual perspective,
18. 1:04but frankly legal and constitutional considerations.
19. 1:08And with us, I'll bring him to the mic in just a moment, as a longtime friend and valued
20. 1:13colleague in ministry and life, attorney Richard Harris.
21. 1:19And we'll talk about truth and liberty and Richard Harris in just a moment.
22. 1:23But I want to welcome everybody to the program.
23. 1:25I am very honored to be with you tonight, very humble that Abe Hamilton would entrust
24. 1:30me with his program.
25. 1:33But if you recognize my voice, it might be from a show that I do called Exploring the
26. 1:39Word, which is now in its 15th year, heard live Monday through Friday on the American
27. 1:44Family Radio Network.
28. 1:45And so we appreciate all the people that follow exploring the word.
29. 1:50We had a great show today.
30. 1:51two people on live radio pray to get born again, two people on the radio earlier this afternoon
31. 1:59that pray to get saved on live radio. And that's why we do what we do. You know, whether it's
32. 2:05doing a program or preaching a sermon or teaching a class, we here believe in the Great Commission
33. 2:14that everyone needs to know about Jesus. And Jesus said, go into all the world and make disciples of
34. 2:20all nations. And do you know what protecting our liberties and our freedoms is really a
35. 2:25part of that. Periodically, ministers will write to me and listen, I've pastored two churches
36. 2:31and spoken in many churches, but ministers will write to me and they'll say, well, Alex
37. 2:35McFarland, I thought you were a gospel evangelist. Why do you care about politics? Why are you
38. 2:41always talking about government and things like that? I thought we were called to the
39. 2:46great commission. Well, here's part of why we do what we do and perhaps Attorney, Pastor,
40. 2:52Academic Richard Harris will weigh in on this as well. But we can, I believe much more fruitfully
41. 2:58live out the great commission when we have the liberty and the freedom to talk about Jesus.
42. 3:05We can evangelize people and help sinners find salvation when it is legal to evangelize.
43. 3:13and there are not obstacles to the gospel. So many reasons to be stewards of our freedom
44. 3:21and obedient participants in Christ's great commission. And to weigh in on this and more,
45. 3:26and especially some cases regarding Colorado where he lives, we've got our friend with us,
46. 3:34Richard Harris, Richard and I, our colleagues in the context of Karis Bible College,
47. 3:39And also, in addition to leading the School of Practical Government out there, Richard is
48. 3:45the leader of Truth and Liberty, which is a multi-faceted ministry fighting for freedom
49. 3:51and empowering people to be salt and light in the culture.
50. 3:54He's a longtime friend and colleague, Richard Harris.
51. 3:58Thank you so much for being with us tonight on the American Family Radio Network.
52. 4:01Amen.
53. 4:03Alex, thank you for having me.
54. 4:04It's a real honor and great to be with you again.
55. 4:07Well, and I've got the privilege of serving alongside you
56. 4:12on the Board of Truth and Liberty.
57. 4:14And for those that may be unaware,
58. 4:15talk about Truth and Liberty,
59. 4:17and we'll weigh in on many issues.
60. 4:19Plus later on in the program folks,
61. 4:21we will take phone calls.
62. 4:22But for a moment, bring people up to speed
63. 4:26on the work of Truth and Liberty Coalition.
64. 4:30Yeah, sure, thank you, Alex.
65. 4:31Well, Truth and Liberty is really an adjunct
66. 4:34of the Andrew Womack Ministries.
67. 4:37So it's an honor and a lifetime for me to be able to serve under Andrew Womack.
68. 4:42And he's a great Bible teacher.
69. 4:44And a few years ago, he decided to launch Truth in Liberty.
70. 4:48It was really in response to the Supreme Court decision in Oberkfell legalizing gay
71. 4:54marriage that's such a benign way of describing it.
72. 4:57It was actually an offense against God that our Supreme Court committed by having
73. 5:03the gall into merit to overturn 6,000 years of human history and think that man has the
74. 5:09ability and the right to define, redefine a divinely ordained institution like marriage.
75. 5:17And so, truth of liberty was founded because the church was asleep and Andrew wanted to
76. 5:22equip, mobilize, and unify the church to stand for truth in the public square.
77. 5:27So that's what we endeavor to do through a lot of different strategies and techniques,
78. 5:34but we are continuously trying to encourage and motivate and connect people to resources
79. 5:38and all the amazing wonderful organizations that are out there like American Family Association
80. 5:46and others that are working hard to restore the gospel in this nation and turn America
81. 5:51back to God.
82. 5:52Richard, do you feel like more than in previous years, conservative, Christian, constitutionalists,
83. 6:03are linking arms and working together?
84. 6:05I mean, there's so many resources like all that you do, and you put out some awesome emails.
85. 6:12I love to get the briefs that you email out.
86. 6:15And of course there's ADF, Alliance Defending Freedom, and there are everything from Hillsdale
87. 6:24College and the great Impremus, the briefs they put out.
88. 6:30Do you feel like maybe more than in previous years the church and those of us that believe
89. 6:37in the US Constitution that maybe we're better positioned than we ever have been to fight
90. 6:43for freedom and keep our religious freedom, freedom of expression, these things legal?
91. 6:52I think you're exactly right, Alex, and I'll go a little deeper on that and say that I
92. 6:58think certainly in the last six years, but even a little bit before that, persecution
93. 7:09weaponized government, if you will, but not just government.
94. 7:13We refer to cancel culture because it's not just government.
95. 7:17It's the news media, the entertainment industry,
96. 7:20even the sports industry and others,
97. 7:22medicine, science, education, all over the place
98. 7:25has been targeting conservative speech,
99. 7:28but in particular Christians.
100. 7:31We've seen persecution against Christians
101. 7:33in the United States of America,
102. 7:36something we never thought we would see.
103. 7:38actually and levels unprecedented before, but you know, in the whole experience during the COVID pandemic of mandatory shutdowns, churches, houses of worship being declared non-essential in America.
104. 7:52Who would have the gall to say that? It's amazing. While box stores and strip clubs and marijuana dispensaries and abortion clinics are essential and deemed, you know, they're allowed to open.
105. 8:05Lickers were open. Yeah, liquor stores gambling casinos. This onslaught has had the, I think,
106. 8:14from Satan's perspective, surely, the unintended consequence of uniting the church.
107. 8:21Instead of always operating in our tribes and denominations and all this sort of thing,
108. 8:26I've seen more unity come about in the last few years than ever before. And people care a whole
109. 8:32lot less about denominational labels and minor doctrinal differences when are the very freedom
110. 8:39to preach the gospel is at stake and this unity is a very powerful thing so I'm thanking
111. 8:44God for it.
112. 8:45Indeed, let's talk about Colorado if we could.
113. 8:52As I was frankly, I was thrilled that we could have you on tonight and I appreciate you making
114. 8:56time for this.
115. 8:58But Richard, on May 28th, so yesterday there was a lot of great stuff.
116. 9:02a news brief ADF. I'm old enough. I remember it was called the Alliance Defense Fund and then it
117. 9:10now it stands for Alliance Defending Freedom, a great organization. But they have filed a suit
118. 9:17on behalf of an apparel company, XXYY Athletics of Colorado, where you are. The Colorado
119. 9:26violating the right to speak the truth, that radical truth that men and women are different.
120. 9:34And this potentially has implications for the rest of the nation.
121. 9:39May 16 Colorado Governor Jared Polis signed HB 251312 into law that basically amends the
122. 9:48Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act to define gender expression and chosen name as something
123. 9:56that the rest of us are legally bound to acknowledge even if we know it's not right.
124. 10:02Help us understand this particular law, this particular case, and its implications for
125. 10:10the rest of the country.
126. 10:12Yeah, absolutely.
127. 10:14The ADF case is the second one that I know of to be filed.
128. 10:18There was another one, one or two days previous to that,
129. 10:22which has a coalition of plaintiffs,
130. 10:24including defend education, Colorado parents
131. 10:29for education, I forget the entire name of CPAN,
132. 10:32and then our good friends that protect kids Colorado,
133. 10:35a strategic partner of ours here,
134. 10:38and another individual, sued as well over HB 1312,
135. 10:432012 as we call it and and Colorado has some extremely aggressive
136. 10:49pro LGBT laws really sort of LGBT
137. 10:55indoctrination laws is what it is the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act
138. 11:00makes it illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of
139. 11:04gender or gender expression
140. 11:07along with of course
141. 11:09sexual identity and marriage status and all kinds of other things. Colorado is where the Jack Phillips case, the Masterpiece
142. 11:18Cake Shop case originated at up. So this is the same place, the same stuff, where they're trying, you know, they tried to compel Jack Phillips,
143. 11:27a Christian cake artist, to design a cake that would celebrate a homosexual wedding. He said, I can't do it. I'm a Christian and this is,
144. 11:35this is I can't participate in this activity. I'll make any other cake you want, but I can't make
145. 11:40a wedding cake for you. Three trips to the courthouse with Jack and then also 303 created
146. 11:47a wedding photographer who on her website was like I will not do gay weddings and they
147. 11:54sued her as well. She went all the way to the US Supreme Court and won a decision by the Supreme
148. 11:59Court saying that's unconstitutional. But here in Colorado they're a little bit thick in the head,
149. 12:04I guess and they're not getting the message. They just passed HB 1312 which says well,
150. 12:10gender expression is really any way that you choose to express your gender from clothing to hair to
151. 12:16whatever it might be including your chosen name. So, chosen name is now added to the list, meaning
152. 12:22if your given name is Bob and you want to go buy Sue, then everybody in the universe has to now
153. 12:27call you Sue. And there are some exemptions in the law for religious organizations. I was just
154. 12:34analyzing those right before you call the Alex. But other than that, the general public,
155. 12:41anyone that offers any kind of business that's called a public accommodation, any employer,
156. 12:48any employer, anyone who provides housing, and then anyone who speaks publicly about any
157. 12:56of those services, so they call that advertising discrimination, must comply with this law.
158. 13:02So this is controlled speech, it's the government coming in and telling us you must say this and
159. 13:07only this and if you deviate from it, we will find you.
160. 13:11We will punish you.
161. 13:13It's LGBT totalitarianism or LGBT Marxism at its worst and it leaves no room for freedom
162. 13:22of speech or freedom of conscience.
163. 13:24We've got a break and when we come back, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to get Richard
164. 13:29Harris's opinion on a medical school that is imposing this and it's really
165. 13:37compelled speech because Richard, you know, I spoke at UNC Greensboro where I went to
166. 13:44undergrad about two years ago and there was a male student clearly a male,
167. 13:50unequivocally male complete with five o'clock shadow but dressed as a female
168. 13:56and you know I was getting yelled at by other students because I referred to this
169. 14:02person as a he but it's compelled speech isn't it to call somebody a
170. 14:11gender that they clearly aren't our freedoms up for grabs folks this is the
171. 14:17Hamilton Corner Alex McFarland sitting in for Abe Hamilton our very special
172. 14:21guest, Richard Harris, attorney, pastor, leader of the Practical Government School at
173. 14:27Caris Bible College. Later on in the show, we will get to your phone calls and questions.
174. 14:32And as always, you can listen to this show again at aFR.net. This and other great programming
175. 14:37is archived there. So you may want to send a link and share this, but stay tuned a brief break
176. 14:44and more on the American Family Radio Network. Don't go away.
177. 14:47A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
178. 15:03What are some biblical characteristics and some biblical standards that help us see and
179. 15:08define what a godly man looks like?
180. 15:11Here are a few.
181. 15:12Number one, he has received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of his life.
182. 15:17Number two, he seeks to read the word of God daily for himself.
183. 15:21Number three, he spends time daily in prayer.
184. 15:26Number 4, He seeks to have a time daily to bring the family together to read the Word
185. 15:30of God, teach from the Word of God, and pray together.
186. 15:35Number 5, He takes and or makes time to train and instructs his children.
187. 15:39Teach them about God, the Word of God, and teaching them wisdom for all ears of life.
188. 15:45Number 6, He seeks to lead and take his family to church regularly, such as worship service
189. 15:50on Sundays and Bible studies on Wednesdays.
190. 15:53He has a sense of mission in his life.
191. 16:04Shining light into the darkness.
192. 16:06This is the Hamilton Quarter, an American family radio.
193. 16:10Welcome back to the program.
194. 16:13Alex McFarland here.
195. 16:14We're going to resume our conversation with attorney, pastor, broadcaster, Richard Harris.
196. 16:19But I want to thank everybody for their enthusiasm for our summer conference on Biblical World
197. 16:26View.
198. 16:27I call it conversations that matter.
199. 16:28A couple of weeks ago we had dynastices in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
200. 16:33People came from as far away as Indiana.
201. 16:35It was just great.
202. 16:37We've got, on June 15, this is not that far away, we've got Gary Chapman.
203. 16:42And Gary Chapman famously wrote the book, The Five Love Languages.
204. 16:45I tell people I think Gary Chapman has probably saved more marriages than almost any other
205. 16:51Christian author.
206. 16:52And we want you to hear him.
207. 16:54five love languages, he'll be speaking and there will be open Q&A then in August
208. 17:00how about this we've got Charlie Kirk coming and so Myrtle Beach is kind of
209. 17:06like Branson Missouri in that there are a lot of theaters here and we've rented a
210. 17:10couple of theaters to do these biblical worldview presentations. The website is
211. 17:16is AlexMcFarlane.com slash conversations, conversations that matter. Later on in the
212. 17:23end of the summer that we'll have Lauren Greene of Fox News. So please, as we say,
213. 17:28pray, promote, plan to attend, because like Richard and Harris and I were talking
214. 17:34about earlier, we need the church to be informed, to be courageous, to stand
215. 17:40strong and stand bold for our freedoms so that we can share the gospel and see people saved
216. 17:48and see an awakening in our country.
217. 17:51So again, for the Summer Speaker Series, Alex McFarland.com slash Conversations.
218. 17:56Our guest this hour is Richard Harris, attorney, and I can also say this, author.
219. 18:04And I know, Richard, you've got a book out.
220. 18:06I saw the cover. It looks great. Is it faith for America? Is that the title of your book?
221. 18:17It's your 60 page or so booklet looks looks like that faith for America. Yeah, and it's about
222. 18:26all that our nation was built on God's word and on faith and at many crucial times during our
223. 18:33nation's history, the faith of God's people is what has carried us through and how God's
224. 18:39hand is intervened to save us, deliver us, and turn us back from our sin and provide us
225. 18:46with victory.
226. 18:47And the times that we are going through right now, I think with the election of Donald Trump
227. 18:53is really miraculous in many ways.
228. 18:57But before that, leading up to that, I would hear people all the time, Alex, and I know
229. 19:01you did too, say things like, the Indus near, God is judging America.
230. 19:08We're over the cliff, we've lost our country and these kinds of things.
231. 19:12And I wanted to write the book to encourage people.
232. 19:14We've been through harder times before and God is able because we have a covenant with
233. 19:18Him and He's going to honor that covenant.
234. 19:21If we'll do our part, He is guaranteed to do His part and nothing is too hard for Him.
235. 19:25So we need to be encouraged.
236. 19:27Well, Lazarus had been in the grave for several days and Jesus said, come forth.
237. 19:34And so it's always too soon to quit.
238. 19:37It's always too soon to give up because our God is able, and I agree, Richard, that America
239. 19:44is a nation in covenant with God.
240. 19:48And from your book, Faith for America, by the way, where can people get this wonderful
241. 19:52resource?
242. 19:53Sure.
243. 19:54They can get it on the Truth and Liberty website.
244. 19:57I'm not sure if it's quite up yet, but that's truthandliberty.net or the Andrew Womack Ministries
245. 20:03website which is awmi.net.
246. 20:07You know, before the break we were talking about HB 1312 and you know I was reading about
247. 20:15it earlier and we've come up with just some crazy words like dead naming.
248. 20:22I mean and when you know someone for instance there's a lot of spiritual implications.
249. 20:31I mean, look, there are some things about our life that we just can't choose.
250. 20:37When we were born, where we were born, our gender, male or female, I mean, there's just
251. 20:44some things about life that the dear Lord chose on our behalf.
252. 20:51Legal considerations aside, Richard, what do you think the spiritual implications are
253. 20:56that people essentially are saying, no, God cannot call the shots. God nor anyone else can
254. 21:07label anything about me. I was born a male, I'll identify differently. Aren't there spiritual
255. 21:15implications when people want to be just militantly autonomous?
256. 21:23Well, absolutely. You know, at its core, it's a rebellion. It's a rebellion against God against his created order.
257. 21:30And they want to take their own desire for rebellion and require the entire world to comply with it, to conform to their rebellion,
258. 21:40even though their rebellion has no basis in reality. You know, gender now to these folks is not,
259. 21:47Gee, do you have an X-Y or an XX chromosome?
260. 21:51No, it's how do you feel on the inside?
261. 21:53Do you want to be a woman?
262. 21:55Do you want to be a man?
263. 21:56How do you feel and who do you feel at home with really?
264. 22:02A subjective feeling that could change with the wind, you know?
265. 22:05And but as long as I feel that way, the entire world has to go along with my delusion.
266. 22:11It's literally insanity.
267. 22:13And you know, there was a bombing that took place at a fertility clinic, not an abortion
268. 22:17clinic, a fertility clinic out in California a few weeks ago.
269. 22:21And the young man that was killed in the bombing and that allegedly did it, my understanding
270. 22:28is that he believed that people needed to have a choice, had the right to choose whether
271. 22:34to be born.
272. 22:35Yeah, I remember that.
273. 22:38That's what people was.
274. 22:39And you know what I'm saying?
275. 22:40I had been out to California to preach.
276. 22:43I know the place in Palm Springs where that bombing took place.
277. 22:47And sadly, the young man, he either committed suicide or he himself died in the blast that
278. 22:54he caused.
279. 22:55But I remember in his manifesto, he said that it is wrong for children to be born, conceived
280. 23:03and born without their consent.
281. 23:06And I'm thinking, okay, that doesn't even make sense, does it?
282. 23:12No, it's more of this sort of insanity.
283. 23:16The further man gets away from God, the more diluted, deceived, and divorced from true reality
284. 23:24he becomes.
285. 23:25God of course is truth and the author of truth.
286. 23:29And you know, ever since the Garden of Eden, the question has been, who's to say?
287. 23:34who gets to say what is right and wrong and true.
288. 23:37And deep in our flesh is this desire to be the ones
289. 23:40on the throne to get to say what's right, wrong and true,
290. 23:43and whether we get to do it or not.
291. 23:45And when that rebellion and the more freedom we give
292. 23:50to that, the more death and destruction comes about.
293. 23:52And we've got to stand our ground on this thing.
294. 23:55We've got to be bold and unashamed.
295. 23:57We have the winning side of this argument now and forever,
296. 24:01and we should not be ashamed of it.
297. 24:04God made us male and female, and He's ordained that for a purpose and for a reason.
298. 24:08We need to be teaching people to celebrate their sexual, how God made them, their sexual
299. 24:14identity, their true objective sexual identity.
300. 24:17If you're not comfortable in that, for whatever reason, maybe you've been abused, maybe you've
301. 24:21been neglected, maybe you were mistreated, or maybe you've just been lied to by the culture.
302. 24:26God offers redemption.
303. 24:27He offers deliverance.
304. 24:28Jesus said that whoever abides in my word shall be my disciple indeed, and He shall know
305. 24:33know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
306. 24:37John 8, 31 and 32, and as the church, we are responsible for ministering that truth in love
307. 24:42to the people.
308. 24:44And that's what we've got to do today.
309. 24:46Richard, legally, as an attorney, do you think HB 1312 would be legally enforced?
310. 24:56I mean, do you see people being prosecuted for misgendering somewhat?
311. 25:03There's a man in address who identifies as a female, but I say, excuse me, sir.
312. 25:11I mean, do you really think legally that could stand to prosecute people that misgender or
313. 25:18dead name someone?
314. 25:20Well, it shouldn't stand.
315. 25:23It probably will stand up in Colorado's courts, even all the way to the Colorado Supreme Court,
316. 25:28because they've upheld similar stuff in the past.
317. 25:30They thought it was just fine to prosecute Jack Phillips and the owner of 303 video.
318. 25:40They'll probably do the same with this one.
319. 25:41But I believe that ultimately the United States Supreme Court and any honest judge that interprets
320. 25:46its precedent would strike down this law because it's a blatant violation of the First Amendment
321. 25:54of the United States Constitution and it should be invalidated.
322. 26:00I'm going to tune in because I've got a couple of questions to ask attorney Richard Harris,
323. 26:06and I think they could be profoundly beneficial.
324. 26:09And here is a question, and Richard, I think you'll instantly know why I'm asking the questions
325. 26:14I'm asking.
326. 26:16But would you define the word immutable in terms of our U.S. Constitution, declaration
327. 26:22bill of rights, immutability regarding human beings?
328. 26:27What does immutable mean?
329. 26:29Yeah, well, immutable, of course, that word itself is not in the Constitution, but what
330. 26:35you're driving at there, I think Alex is the idea that an immutable characteristic means
331. 26:40that unchanging one that cannot be altered, a person's race cannot be altered, a person's
332. 26:47God-given gender cannot be altered.
333. 26:50And as a result of that, because we're all created equal, these should not be grounds for
334. 26:56discrimination in public life.
335. 26:58You shouldn't be able to discriminate against a person because of their race or because of
336. 27:04their ancestry or because of the nation that they come from.
337. 27:07They can't control these things and by and large these things are irrelevant anyway.
338. 27:11And so because we believe in the equality of all people, that's morally wrong.
339. 27:17When it comes to gender stuff, and I include the whole panoply here from sexual orientation,
340. 27:24you know that was the first one.
341. 27:25That was the first one.
342. 27:27And now it's not just sexual orientation, it's gender identity and gender expression,
343. 27:33and there's another one in the mix somewhere.
344. 27:35I don't remember what exactly it is.
345. 27:36But now all these layer upon layer of perversions are being added, which are not immutable.
346. 27:42This is a core issue of the debate.
347. 27:44Are these things immutable characteristics?
348. 27:47Well, the homosexual community, they want to say, yeah, they're immutable.
349. 27:51I was born gay.
350. 27:54I'm sorry.
351. 27:55and biblically, that is absolutely not true. But even scientifically, that's not true.
352. 27:59Most people that experience same-sex attraction or even gender confusion in their youth will
353. 28:05grow out of it. By the time they're in their mid-20s, they've processed and dealt with those
354. 28:10contrary feelings and are living relatively normal and healthy lives. And even in the
355. 28:16case where people are still experiencing those feelings, willing to adulthood,
356. 28:19but I acknowledge those are real, those exist,
357. 28:22that is an issue, it breaks my heart,
358. 28:25that people have to suffer like that,
359. 28:27but there is still the opportunity for freedom and change,
360. 28:31because the problem is not biological,
361. 28:34the problem is in the mind, and it's how we think,
362. 28:37and these people have been traumatized,
363. 28:40actually, they're victims of trauma, for the most part,
364. 28:43and the trauma can be healed by the love and the truth of God,
365. 28:48And to tell us, for the courts and lawmakers in this country,
366. 28:53to say you cannot offer that truth, like in Colorado now,
367. 28:57it's against the law to counsel people who want to get out
368. 29:00of same sex attraction.
369. 29:02They call it a conversion therapy.
370. 29:07That's unconstitutional as well.
371. 29:08How can you ban that?
372. 29:10You're saying we cannot help people who want to get out of this?
373. 29:12That's insane.
374. 29:14But that's where they are.
375. 29:15They want to lock down and mandate their ideology on everybody.
376. 29:20And we're just not going to have it.
377. 29:22We're not going to submit to that.
378. 29:24You're listening to attorney Richard Harris, Alex McFarland here on the American Family
379. 29:28Radio Network.
380. 29:30Richard, I've interviewed as recently as within the last month, I've interviewed former homosexuals,
381. 29:38former transgender people who lived the transgender lifestyle.
382. 29:44I've never met a former Hispanic or a former Caucasian.
383. 29:51So ethnicity is not the same as behavior, is it?
384. 29:56Well, no, absolutely not.
385. 29:58And ethnicity is, yeah, it's not even a legitimate basis
386. 30:06for choosing whether to offer a service
387. 30:08or to include someone in your circle of influence
388. 30:11or anything else like that.
389. 30:12That's wrong.
390. 30:14When it comes to gender, on the other hand,
391. 30:16there are many occasions where that person doesn't belong.
392. 30:20Like, for example, a boy should not be in girls locker rooms.
393. 30:24A boy should not play in girls sports.
394. 30:27There are times when men need to be separated from women
395. 30:29for various reasons.
396. 30:31And that is just common sense, Alex.
397. 30:34And I'll take a step further.
398. 30:37I've never seen a boy become a girl either.
399. 30:40What we're seeing today is boys pretending
400. 30:43to be girls and girls pretending to be boys, even if they have surgery and hormone therapy,
401. 30:48they're still the gender they were born with because at this point science can't go into
402. 30:53every single cell of your body and change the chromosomes to be male or female. You're
403. 30:59made male and female and it affects many functions of the human body, not just the external appearances
404. 31:05or the sexual anatomy.
405. 31:07So what we're doing is we're chopping up our kids is what we're doing and making them look
406. 31:16like another gender.
407. 31:18But it's all a fake.
408. 31:19It's all a ruse.
409. 31:20It's not real.
410. 31:22And we can't abide by this any longer.
411. 31:24Okay, a week ago I was talking to, I'm not going to name the school.
412. 31:28I'm not going to name the students because this is real and I do not want to cause trouble.
413. 31:33But one of the most well-known medical schools in America, everybody listening would know
414. 31:39this medical school.
415. 31:42Three students, there was a class on gender affirming care.
416. 31:46It was taught by an instructor with purple hair in a bun.
417. 31:51It was a male, dressed as a female.
418. 31:55And out of a classroom of nearly four dozen medical students, three said, you know, how
419. 32:04do we administer medical care to patients that don't have the bodily organs corresponding
420. 32:12to what they're asking for?
421. 32:14And should we let the patient chart the course of care rather than the doctor?
422. 32:20they were sent to the dean of the medical school and had to write papers
423. 32:23apologizing for asking questions. When we come back we're going to talk with
424. 32:29attorney Richard Harris. We'll take phone calls as well. If you want to call in
425. 32:32triple eight five eight nine eighty eight forty triple eight five eight nine
426. 32:37eighty eight forty how our nation must have the courage and the presence of
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436. 33:30The term Providence means God's superintending care over his creation.
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445. 34:09Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
446. 34:14Alex McFarland here talking with Richard Harris.
447. 34:18Spirit of full disclosure, Richard has been a friend
448. 34:20for nearly a decade.
449. 34:22We are colleagues.
450. 34:23We both have the privilege of teaching
451. 34:26at Harris Bible College.
452. 34:27I've had the privilege for a number of years of teaching apologetics, biblical worldview,
453. 34:34and then in the School of Practical Government, which is part of a third year program.
454. 34:39And it's just phenomenal.
455. 34:42It really is.
456. 34:43And Richard, before we, I've got so many questions I want to ask you and maybe some of the listeners
457. 34:48do as well.
458. 34:50But again, tell us about Truth in Liberty, where people can watch Truth in Liberty, the School
459. 34:56of practical government, people like David Barton and Bill Federer and just some of the
460. 35:01great leaders of our time speak out there in Woodland, Port Colorado. But just give us
461. 35:08a couple of websites and tell us about where people can find you, Richard.
462. 35:13Well thanks Alex. Yeah, I've known you since we started Practical Government School and we're
463. 35:20now I think next year will be the 10th year of it and wow it's been just phenomenal and
464. 35:26You're, I think you teach more courses than any other individual in PGS and you do such
465. 35:32an amazing job and we just love you man.
466. 35:35And, but yeah, so truth and liberty, folks can find us on the web at truthandliberty.net.
467. 35:43And our show that we do twice a week, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6 p.m.
468. 35:47Mountain Time, so 8 p.m. Eastern, you can watch it live on our website at truthandliberty.net
469. 35:54or on another website that the ministry host called gtn.com, Gospel Truth Network.
470. 36:01You can catch our show there at the same time and many other programs on GTN. Great Bible teaching.
471. 36:08But the Truth and Liberty Show also is on all your favorite social media platforms. I say all of them.
472. 36:15YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. What's the one for the young people? I always forget that one.
473. 36:21But yeah, but we're there. Yeah, the one that almost got banned. But yeah, TikTok. So I don't really you're on that
474. 36:30Yeah, so we're all over the place and our audience is growing and it's going great. And we also on our website, I want to mention we have a resources center Alex that's one of a kind took us quite a while to build it. But we've got hundreds of resources on there. Everything from training materials on how to run for office a voting resources center and a pastor's toolkit.
475. 36:50toolkit and it's searchable by subject matter and other things.
476. 36:54Encourage everybody to check that out.
477. 36:57The practical government school, as you said,
478. 36:59is in the third year program at Carris Bible College.
479. 37:03Carris is based in Woodland Park, Colorado.
480. 37:06It's an arm of Andrew Wormack Ministries.
481. 37:08And we have 1,000 students on campus here in Woodland Park.
482. 37:13The third year has multiple schools.
483. 37:14I think there are seven schools, including
484. 37:16practical government school, that train students in the areas
485. 37:19that God's called them to.
486. 37:21So business, worship, ministry,
487. 37:25our mission school is called global outreach
488. 37:28and practical government among others.
489. 37:30And so we are equipping students to engage the realm
490. 37:34of government with a biblical worldview
491. 37:36with an understanding of America's Christian heritage.
492. 37:39I think the students that graduate from our school,
493. 37:42Alex, will know the US Constitution better
494. 37:45than almost any member of Congress.
495. 37:48In fact, I guarantee that to be true.
496. 37:50Not every member, but almost every member, better than most judges even and most attorneys.
497. 37:57And also will acquire practical skills like you know, you teach public speaking for us
498. 38:03how to handle a hostile media interview.
499. 38:05We have former congressman teaches on how to run for office and many, many other amazing
500. 38:10courses.
501. 38:11So, I am a real believer in the program and if anybody wants to learn more, they can check
502. 38:16Check it out on karrisbiblecollege.org.
503. 38:21They can look up the third year program and find the practical government school there,
504. 38:24karrisbiblecollege.org.
505. 38:25Well, thank you, Richard.
506. 38:28Thank you very much.
507. 38:29Before the break, I was telling you about a student that is in medical school.
508. 38:37I'm not going to say who, not going to say where.
509. 38:39They had a class that was mandatory on gender affirming care.
510. 38:45The particular instructor don't know if it even was a full-out professor.
511. 38:51It was an outside instructor.
512. 38:54They said it was clearly a male, but dressed as a female.
513. 38:59Purple hair up in a man-bone.
514. 39:03But three students out of a class of about 40 said, well, how do we administer treatment
515. 39:14for a patient relative to organs the patient doesn't possess.
516. 39:22And the other area of conversation was, you know, as doctors once we become doctors, should
517. 39:30we allow the patient to mandate a course of treatment that we don't feel like is medically
518. 39:38responsible?
519. 39:39generally, you know, the medical professional, the doctor charts the course of treatment. Well,
520. 39:45long story short, and as this particular medical student was telling me this, the person was visibly
521. 39:52upset, said us, we three students were sent to the dean of the medical school. We were strongly
522. 39:58reprimanded. We had insulted the instructor and bullied the instructor, and this person said, we did
523. 40:07not. We were very respectful. We just were basically saying, look, shouldn't we give medical care
524. 40:15that is commesurate with the person's gender? We all three were made to write papers, they told
525. 40:21me, apologizing, saying we won't do this again. And we in the future will go along with the gender
526. 40:30guidelines that this medical school has embraced. There's just so many things in my mind that are
527. 40:35wrong with this, and this is like psychological conditioning. But Richard, where's it going
528. 40:42to stop when basically human biology and common sense say, look, there's truth in reality,
529. 40:51there's delusion and misinformation. I mean, aren't we on egregiously dangerous ground
530. 40:58when even doctors in training are being coerced to go along with what we know is false.
531. 41:08It's, you're right.
532. 41:09It's more, it's just another manifestation of the thought and speech control coming from
533. 41:17the woke ideologues on the left, especially the LGBT movement.
534. 41:23I was just watching a documentary last night, Alex on Communist China.
535. 41:28And the stories of people who have dared to speak out against the regime and criticize
536. 41:35the government for various things and how they suddenly will disappear, sometimes never
537. 41:39to be seen again, sometimes to reemerge years later where their businesses are taken or
538. 41:44they're forced to confess to crimes against the state and apologize for their errors.
539. 41:51There's no difference between what these med students just were put through and how
540. 41:55communist China deals with the sins and they weren't even these students based on what you're saying
541. 42:00weren't even dissenting they were just asking responsible questions based on their understanding
542. 42:06of medical science and their potential duties that they're going to be acquiring for themselves as
543. 42:11doctors. There's a movement out right now fighting against this whole crazy transgenderism thing
544. 42:18called do no harm. Family policy alliance has that name on it and there are others Dr. Morel
545. 42:25and so forth. Because this transgender medical treatment, it is not really medicine, is it?
546. 42:32It's not trying to fix a medical problem or provide health for someone. No, it's mutilating
547. 42:39the human body, making it operate contrary to its design in order to placate a delusion
548. 42:48that the patient has. Well, it is irresponsible for a doctor to go along with that. It's
549. 42:54It's an abuse of his privileges and it does harm the individual.
550. 42:58You know, these folks who go through gender therapy transition, they are permanently sterilized,
551. 43:04brother.
552. 43:05They will never again, even if they recover from their delusion, they will never have the
553. 43:09opportunity to bear children.
554. 43:11They will never function properly.
555. 43:12They'll never have normal levels of hormones and all the other functions that go on.
556. 43:20I might be mistaken on the normal level thing.
557. 43:22It's a terrible thing and the D transitioners out there, people need to watch those testimonies,
558. 43:29their heartbreaking.
559. 43:30There really are and suicidal ideation.
560. 43:35Thoughts of suicide, self-harm, attempted suicide are exponentially higher in the lives of the
561. 43:44people that have tried to transition to a different gender.
562. 43:47And so, you know, I remember Dr. Phil was just eviscerated in the media several years ago,
563. 43:56but Phil McGraw, Dr. Phil, he said these people with transgender inclination, they don't need
564. 44:03surgery, they need counseling.
565. 44:06And I mean, he would, but he was right.
566. 44:09He was right.
567. 44:10So, I've got a question.
568. 44:11I'm so privileged.
569. 44:12I want to say thank you for making time to be with us.
570. 44:17So I was doing research for the program today, Richard, attorney Richard Harris, and I found
571. 44:24a paper from the Yale Law Review from 2016, and it was an article titled Against Immutability,
572. 44:34Against Immutability.
573. 44:37And it basically was talking about that it was encouraging people, lawyers, attorneys, and
574. 44:45I would assume students at Yale Law School to reconsider the idea of immutable characteristics.
575. 44:54And it just said with the advent of gay LGBT considerations, we realized that immutable
576. 45:04characteristics don't tell the whole story.
577. 45:09And we've always understood the Constitution in terms of immutable rights, but let's read,
578. 45:16and I'm sorry, it was Harvard Law Review, not Yale, it was Harvard Law Review, but we've
579. 45:21got to now look at the Constitution against immutability.
580. 45:28What are your thoughts on that sort of position, Richard?
581. 45:35Yeah, and I think I understand what you're saying. The idea there is, originally, civil
582. 45:44rights law came about from a recognition that certain differences among human beings,
583. 45:53external differences and the like, are not really a valid basis for discriminating against
584. 46:00people in different areas because they can't do anything about those differences for one
585. 46:04thing. And for another thing, they're irrelevant. And so immutable characteristics were all created
586. 46:11equal and entitled to the equality under the law. And so we shouldn't allow discrimination in the law
587. 46:18based on immutable characteristics like race. Or sex for that matter. But always in the law
588. 46:26when it comes to sex, there has been some discrimination allowed. What I mean by that is there are
589. 46:32where the sex of an individual is relevant to the actions of the government
590. 46:37or to the actions of a business, for example, and so on,
591. 46:41like letting women in to men's bathrooms and vice versa and this sort of thing.
592. 46:45And so the some level of discrimination, all discrimination means is applying a different standard.
593. 46:52Okay. So you're discriminatory, okay, in your decision making.
594. 46:58To completely obliterate or remove immutability as an element in deciding whether a class of people
595. 47:08have a civil rights claim based on discrimination is cutting the rope that ties us to the dock.
596. 47:15We will then be floating out in the ocean on what basis do we believe that the discrimination
597. 47:24should be unlawful. It's nothing more than the desire of the people that have whatever
598. 47:30the characteristic is to be treated equally. But there may be on the other side many or
599. 47:38other many reasons or compelling reasons for the discrimination. But see the LGBT movement
600. 47:45especially wants to eliminate all that because really what they're trying to do is they're trying
601. 47:50to make homosexuality and all forms of sexual related thinking perversion and conduct, they
602. 47:59want it to remove it from the realm of, they don't want it to be a moral or religious question
603. 48:05anymore.
604. 48:06They want it solely to be a matter of choice and preference that no one can challenge and
605. 48:12no one can speak against.
606. 48:15And that's where they want to go.
607. 48:17So that's why they want to sever the time.
608. 48:18They want to get rid of the immutability question.
609. 48:21Because morally speaking, who you have sex with
610. 48:26and is a matter of choice and conduct
611. 48:30and for which you are responsible.
612. 48:32And it is a moral question.
613. 48:35We cannot as human beings say that sex is an amoral issue.
614. 48:39It is a moral issue and God has established
615. 48:41the standards for it.
616. 48:43He's our creator and our designer
617. 48:44and we need to follow those standards.
618. 48:47and the left and the LGBT movement,
619. 48:49they want to silence that discussion.
620. 48:51They don't want it to even happen anymore.
621. 48:54So the gay marriage decision of 2015
622. 48:57and other like legislation is vastly different
623. 49:01from the civil rights legislation of the 1960s, isn't it?
624. 49:05Right.
625. 49:06Well, it is because to say that a man has a right to marry a man,
626. 49:12you have to believe that that right exists
627. 49:15because homosexuality or same sex attraction, a sexual preference is immutable.
628. 49:22Hey Richard, forgive me, we're almost done.
629. 49:24You're born gay, so it's wrong for us to just remain.
630. 49:28We're out of time, sir.
631. 49:29Richard Harris, thank you and thanks for listening.
632. 49:31Alex McFarland saying, thank you for listening to the American Family Radio Network.
633. 49:36Blessings to all.
634. 49:39The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
635. 49:44Family Association or American Family Radio.