("Best-of" Edition from 9/28/23) Pastor Matthew White returns to “The Corner.”

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:23Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
11. 1:01transitioning to your full-time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
12. 1:09As you do so, I want to remind you to do it with intentionality, understanding the
13. 1:16primacy that God places on family.
14. 1:20And in light of His view of family, we then are able to properly navigate the
15. 1:27understanding of family that we have.
16. 1:30family is a primary context through which God is ordained for the gospel to be conveyed
17. 1:37and disciples to be made to establish a generational, multi-generational witness for his glory.
18. 1:45All throughout scripture, you see over and over and over again, fathers shall teach their
19. 1:51sons so that their sons will know, for example Psalm 78, so that their sons sons, the generations
20. 1:58yet to be born will remain faithful to the Lord. You see often the Lord instructing existing
21. 2:07generations to build memorials. Why? So that when the generations come, they know your commitments.
22. 2:17God is a generational God. In fact, having a generational, multi-generational view is
23. 2:24actually intrinsic to what God established as biblical manhood and fatherhood, fatherhood
24. 2:30in particular. So as you are transitioning at this very very moment, I want to encourage
25. 2:39you to do so with the understanding that the first institution that God established, the
26. 2:43first human institution was the family. The first command that he issued to mankind was
27. 2:49issued within the familial context. Family is a big deal to God. So it should be a big
28. 2:58deal to us. And my prayer for you, even before coming on the air today, is that you would
29. 3:07understand and embrace God's view of family and see it the way that he sees it and recognize
30. 3:13the opportunity that you have to be a part of the Lord's commission being executed starting
31. 3:20right in your own homes. This is what my prayer has been. Now with that, we're going to turn
32. 3:26to the Word of God to begin the program today. We're going to go to 2 Timothy chapter 1,
33. 3:30verses one through seven.
34. 3:32And this will include a very familiar verse,
35. 3:36but often the verse is detached from its context.
36. 3:41And I want to encourage you to navigate scripture
37. 3:44within its context.
38. 3:46All right, Second Timothy, just like First Timothy,
39. 3:49just like Paul's Epistles to the Galatians,
40. 3:51Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians,
41. 3:54First and Second Thessalonians,
42. 3:56First and Second Corinthians,
43. 3:57these are all Epistles, all right?
44. 4:00The word epistle is just a big, not a big,
45. 4:02but a fancy word that means letter.
46. 4:04It's a letter.
47. 4:06These books, among others,
48. 4:09are why I encourage people to read the scripture
49. 4:13in large chunks.
50. 4:16All right?
51. 4:16These epistles, I would encourage you to read
52. 4:19in one setting, you know?
53. 4:22To read them together.
54. 4:23You know, if I wrote you a personal letter
55. 4:25that you would not read the first paragraph
56. 4:27or skip to the fourth paragraph
57. 4:30And then walk away thinking, I know all that Abe intended to convey to me in this letter.
58. 4:33No, you read the whole letter, which is why I'm encouraging you to read the entirety of
59. 4:38these letters to enable to properly contextualize and plumb the depth exegetically of what the
60. 4:47Lord has attempted has conveyed to us in his word.
61. 4:52Second Timothy chapter one verse seven, I'm going to read the text first and then we'll
62. 4:55jump and I'm going to unpack it a little bit.
63. 4:59Verse one.
64. 5:00Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus, by the will of God,
65. 5:03according to the promise of life in Christ Jesus,
66. 5:06to Timothy, my beloved son, grace, mercy, and peace
67. 5:10from God the Father, and Christ Jesus our Lord.
68. 5:15I thank God whom I serve with a clear conscience,
69. 5:18the way my forefathers did, as I constantly remember you
70. 5:21in my prayers, night and day, longing to see you,
71. 5:25even as I recall your tears, so that I may be filled
72. 5:28with joy, for I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your
73. 5:34grandmother, Loyce, and your mother, Eunice, and I am sure that is in you as well.
74. 5:41For this reason, I remind you to kindle the fresh, the gift of God which is in you, through
75. 5:47the laying on of my hands, for God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power, and
76. 5:55love, and discipline.
77. 5:57Now I want to mention many of you are familiar with these verses.
78. 6:04For example, verse six when it says,
79. 6:06for this reason I remind you to kindle a fresh.
80. 6:11Well, some translations there say fan into flame,
81. 6:14fan into flame, the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
82. 6:21For God has not given us the spirit of fear some translations say,
83. 6:25but of power and of love and of some say sound mind some translations,
84. 6:30Others say sound judgment.
85. 6:32Others say self-control.
86. 6:34All right.
87. 6:35But all of them come from those translations rendered from the same Greek term, which I'm
88. 6:40going to convey to you in a moment here.
89. 6:42All right.
90. 6:43Now, many people have quoted, I remember as a child, learning the scripture, for God has
91. 6:49not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of sound mind.
92. 6:52Right.
93. 6:53There is broad application for that text.
94. 6:56But in order to truly navigate what God was endeavoring to say specifically through this verse,
95. 7:02we should not quote this individual verse the verse 7 absent its context.
96. 7:09It is noteworthy that the Apostle Paul is writing this epistle at about 66 67 AD.
97. 7:17This is shortly before he is ultimately martyred under Nero.
98. 7:22All right.
99. 7:23This is while he is incarcerated facing an imminent, albeit uncertain death in receiving
100. 7:31this letter from Paul, Timothy is confronted with the reality of what Christ following could
101. 7:42result in for him.
102. 7:47He was familiar with the Apostle Paul's teaching.
103. 7:49He was familiar with the Apostle Paul's manner of living, his walk, his lifestyle.
104. 7:55He also was familiar with the Apostle Paul's sufferings.
105. 7:59Suffering Timothy was.
106. 8:01And now these sufferings have culminated with Timothy receiving a letter from the now incarcerated,
107. 8:09soon to be executed Paul.
108. 8:16And so Paul reminds Timothy about his faith and summons him to fan into flame the gift
109. 8:32that God had given to him.
110. 8:34And Paul remarks at the laying on of my hands.
111. 8:38All right.
112. 8:39The fullness of verse six,
113. 8:43reminding him of the gift that he has,
114. 8:46the laying on his hand, of his hands marks a shift
115. 8:49in this epistle from its opening expressions of thanksgiving
116. 8:53to Paul's first exhortation in this epistle to Timothy,
117. 8:59which becomes a passionate challenge
118. 9:03for Timothy to continue to follow Paul's example.
119. 9:11When he says to him,
120. 9:11fans of flame, the gift of God,
121. 9:14Paul does not explicitly state what the gift is,
122. 9:21which I would strongly convey to you,
123. 9:23commend to you that it is intentional,
124. 9:25that the Lord doesn't say what it is.
125. 9:29And it allows the principle that Paul is articulating
126. 9:32to convey what Paul is articulating
127. 9:35to apply to all types of gifts.
128. 9:40But specifically when Paul explained that the gift that Timothy received,
129. 9:45it came as a result of the quote, laying on of my hands.
130. 9:48This is most likely referring to Timothy's ordination as an elder in the Ephesian
131. 9:57church. Paul is recalling, I know the vocational call that God has given you,
132. 10:03because I was a part of the Lord, officially positioning you in his church as an elder.
133. 10:11You can cross-reference this verse with 1 Timothy 5, verses 21 and 22, where the same
134. 10:17Apostle Paul says that the body of Christ should not lay hands on any man suddenly.
135. 10:24The laying on of the hands was an official mechanism of ordination and establishment in
136. 10:29the Lord's Church, something that the Apostle Paul participated in, recorded in Acts,
137. 10:34chapter 11 and 12 and 13, and here in part receiving the laying on of the hands, here Paul
138. 10:40is as an apostle laying his hands on Timothy, ordaining him as an elder in the Lord's church
139. 10:47at the city of Ephesus.
140. 10:49So when Paul says, fan into flame the gift that you've received at the laying on my hands,
141. 10:55Paul is saying, I was there when God called you to this service.
142. 11:01After saying, I was there when God called you into service, but don't just be a recipient
143. 11:05of the call, fan the gift into flame. Then the apostle Paul immediately says, for God has
144. 11:09not given us, has not given us Timothy, a spirit of fear or spirit of timidity, but a
145. 11:15power and love and a sound mind. See, Paul knows that as Timothy is staring in the face
146. 11:24the reality of what Christ's following could require. Yeah, Timothy, the reality is that
147. 11:29just as I'm in chains right now, I'm incarcerated, you could end up in the same way. But that's
148. 11:36not a reason to abandon the call because our call is worth it.
149. 11:42God has not given us the spirit of fear, with the Greek word there is de lea, de lea, which
150. 11:48means cowardice, but it's specifically a term de lea is the term in Greek, then in the
151. 11:53first century it was used as a pejorative and an insult.
152. 11:58It communicated the notion of a soldier being on the battlefield, but yet fleeing from the
153. 12:03battle lines.
154. 12:04Paul is saying, fan of the flames, the gift that God has given you.
155. 12:07I was there when God summoned you into eldership.
156. 12:10I laid my own hands on you.
157. 12:13God has not given us a spirit of fear, Timothy.
158. 12:15A spirit of cowardice, a spirit of insult,
159. 12:17I mean a spirit of of of of of timidity
160. 12:19to where we would flee from the battle lines
161. 12:21that God has called us to.
162. 12:23That's not the spirit of God has given us,
163. 12:25but he's given us power, Greek word, dunamis,
164. 12:29and love agape and discipline or a sound mind
165. 12:35mind or self-control, the Greek word there, is
166. 12:47saffronizmos, which communicates a recalibration of the mind
167. 12:51according to what is true. I know it could be intimidating to
168. 12:55consider what the natural toll on your life, maybe the natural
169. 12:59consequences, maybe, but remember who we are. Remember
170. 13:03who's we are. Remember that the Christ that we serve has
171. 13:07Abolished death for all of us who placed our faith in him these lighter flichens that we endure for the present time
172. 13:14Cannot begin to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in us. Yes, Paul is saying I understand that the prospect of
173. 13:22Surrendering all to follow the Christ can be a jarring proposition. It could be very very
174. 13:32Discomforting disconcerting to have worked in a particular way or all your life
175. 13:35and then realize God is calling you to a major transition.
176. 13:38That could be intimidating.
177. 13:40Or you could be working in an occupation,
178. 13:43and Lord is calling you to go out on your own
179. 13:45and start your own enterprise, your own business.
180. 13:46That could be a startling proposition,
181. 13:48but God has not given us a spirit of fear,
182. 13:52but He's given us power and love and a sound mind.
183. 13:57Whenever we are tempted in our minds
184. 14:00to allow suggestions that rival against,
185. 14:03that strive against what we know to be true according
186. 14:05the God's word, we have the wherewithal because of the indwelling of the Spirit of God to recalibrate
187. 14:11our minds according to what is true.
188. 14:14So instead of allowing the gift of God has given you to fade into obscurity because of negligence
189. 14:19and lack of usage, fan that gift into flame.
190. 14:23I know what God called you to Timothy.
191. 14:24I was there and I laid my hands on you.
192. 14:27For the Lord has not given us a Spirit of timidity, a Spirit of cowardice, a Spirit that
193. 14:32flees when summoned to the battlefield, but He's given us power and love and a sound mind.
194. 14:37and sisters. This is the moment that God has called us to. Let us not shrink back from the
195. 14:46privilege that we have to follow the King of Glory in fulfilling his purposes that descend
196. 14:53to us from eternity.
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208. 16:13on American Family Radio.
209. 16:15Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner,
210. 16:16Abraham Hamilton the third here.
211. 16:20I'm excited to have in studio with me,
212. 16:23a brother of Man of God who I respect,
213. 16:25I love and I appreciate more than my words can express.
214. 16:29He's been on the program before
215. 16:31and I've been trying to get him back on,
216. 16:33but schedules have not afforded us the opportunity
217. 16:36to do so until now.
218. 16:38So I am just elated to have in studio with me,
219. 16:43Pastor Matthew White, who is first and foremost a brother in Christ.
220. 16:48He is a husband and a father of six beautiful children.
221. 16:52Got a brand new baby girl.
222. 16:54Tell me something about those six packs that don't come from the store.
223. 16:58I told Jeff you better be careful.
224. 17:01Something in the water over here.
225. 17:02And we will have six children.
226. 17:05But my brother, Pastor Matthew White, is also a staff writer for the stand formerly known
227. 17:11as the AFA Journal.
228. 17:12and AFA and is also a veteran of the Army National Guard. Pastor White is the pastor of New Hope
229. 17:20Baptist Church and he's been a pastor for 17 years. Praise God for your faithfulness to
230. 17:26him. And would you share where is New Hope located?
231. 17:30Webster County is about halfway between Calhoun City and Newport on Highway 9. Webster County,
232. 17:35Mississippi. Webster County. And so I'm just excited to have in-studio with me because this
233. 17:40His brother had known, he'd been ministering to me, you know, in his work writing for the
234. 17:45stand.
235. 17:46He's written a six part series that the overarching title was preparing for persecution.
236. 17:54Right.
237. 17:55But there are subtitles and other things.
238. 17:57And so when I first started reading it, say man, I got to have this brother on because
239. 18:01these are the kinds of things that the body of Christ needs to be aware of, but also a
240. 18:08a strengthened by because not only has the Lord told us
241. 18:12this was coming, but he's also prepared us
242. 18:15about allowing us to have instruction
243. 18:17as how we ready ourselves for it.
244. 18:19The scripture talks about that we want to know the Lord
245. 18:23in the power of resurrection, but also
246. 18:26in the fellowship of his suffering.
247. 18:27And so Pastor Matt, thank you for joining me here.
248. 18:30Man, thank you for having me, brother.
249. 18:32Man, it is my privilege and my honor to have you
250. 18:35on this show.
251. 18:37I was you and I were just having a conversation.
252. 18:39One of the things that's becoming more and more clear to me
253. 18:43as I travel the country,
254. 18:44the Lord allows me to do so,
255. 18:46is that places in our nation,
256. 18:48where the Word of God is being taught with clarity,
257. 18:52with conviction, and without flinching in the face
258. 18:56of hostile culture, I find that those churches are growing,
259. 19:00in places that really are, you know,
260. 19:03Unbiblical just to be blunt not not adhering to the full council of the scripture
261. 19:10those places that are kind of superficial and
262. 19:13those that are you know
263. 19:17Heterodox I'll say that one mm-hmm
264. 19:19They're dwindling they are they're dwindling and you know, I don't know
265. 19:23I don't mean to paint with a broad brush, but generally speaking this is what's happening in our country
266. 19:27So I'm faking grateful for faithful men who preach the word of God and pass them at is one of those
267. 19:33I appreciate it brother.
268. 19:34I'm encouraged as well to see that.
269. 19:37When the truth is faithfully proclaimed, I'm seeing that people are hungry for it.
270. 19:44It's very encouraging to see that.
271. 19:46Amen.
272. 19:47So let's get into this.
273. 19:48Preparing for persecution.
274. 19:50Six part series.
275. 19:53What led you down this trajectory to begin to write about this?
276. 19:59Sure.
277. 20:00So I've been preaching through the book of Acts in an expository fashion and came to Acts
278. 20:07chapter 4, of course, through that process and began to see this evident theme of persecution
279. 20:14rearing his head after the church had seemingly enjoyed, you know, some time of peace.
280. 20:22The early church was experiencing peace, but as we know as faithful believers, that peace
281. 20:27doesn't last long, the enemy is going to rear his ugly head and try to disrupt God's
282. 20:33plan. And so preached through all of that. And so then the articles online are sort of
283. 20:42a distillation of my sermons. And so that's why they have the, you know, the headings or
284. 20:47the points and whatnot. They're they're distillations of my sermons. And I just decided to put it
285. 20:51in a blog format for the readers.
286. 20:54Wow.
287. 20:55Now just to place this for those who are listening,
288. 20:58Acts chapter four, relatively early on
289. 21:01in the life of the church.
290. 21:02Sure.
291. 21:03You have the phenomenon where Peter and John
292. 21:06are before the Sanhedrin.
293. 21:09They hadn't even been physically beaten at this point.
294. 21:11They were detained and threatened.
295. 21:14Right.
296. 21:14And then Peter stands with square shoulders.
297. 21:19You determine.
298. 21:20They threatened them to preach no more in the name of this Jesus.
299. 21:23And then Peter stands and fortunately says, you determine whether we should obey God or
300. 21:29be man in the very next scene.
301. 21:32They were treated to prayer meeting and they cried out to the law of a boldness.
302. 21:37Right, absolutely.
303. 21:39And what struck me, one of the amazing things within that is after that initial round of persecution
304. 21:50and they went back and told their fellow brethren
305. 21:53what had happened, they praised God for it.
306. 21:58That struck me as amazing that despite having standing,
307. 22:03been standing before the Sanhedrin facing these threats,
308. 22:06which were real threats by the way.
309. 22:08I hope people understand that these are the same people
310. 22:12who crucified Jesus.
311. 22:14It wasn't like this was idle threats.
312. 22:17These were real threats.
313. 22:19And despite facing down the Sanhedrin
314. 22:22and those real threats,
315. 22:23they went back to the brethren and reported
316. 22:25all that had been done.
317. 22:27And the very next verse says,
318. 22:29they praised God for him.
319. 22:31That struck me as amazing.
320. 22:33Yeah, I wanna get to that.
321. 22:34Okay.
322. 22:35There was a portion of your writings
323. 22:37where you talked about the courts contempt.
324. 22:39Yes.
325. 22:40And you conveyed the reality of the types of threats,
326. 22:44the reality of the types of threats.
327. 22:45So I just wanted to give you an opportunity to unpack that for the viewers and listeners
328. 22:50when you say that these threats are real because reading them, we can go, they didn't mean they
329. 22:54just threatened them a little bit, you know, but they can minimize the significance of those
330. 22:57threats.
331. 22:58Sure.
332. 22:59Yeah.
333. 23:00The threats were real again.
334. 23:01These were the ones who were able to falsely put Christ on trial.
335. 23:06They brought up false witnesses against him.
336. 23:10They were religious people, but they were wicked people.
337. 23:13And so there was nothing outside of the realm of possibility.
338. 23:17There was nothing beyond their sinful nature to be able to do to make whatever happened,
339. 23:23whatever they wanted to happen.
340. 23:24They could have done that.
341. 23:27And if it weren't for the fact that they were just a little bit afraid of the people's
342. 23:31response at that time, they would have.
343. 23:33They would have gone forward with something, but they knew they didn't have the support
344. 23:37of the people at that time.
345. 23:39And so they had to sort of put them to the side and reconvene, try to figure out, well, what
346. 23:44are we going to do with these men?
347. 23:46And so they had great contempt against them.
348. 23:48They wanted to get rid of them.
349. 23:49They just couldn't quite figure out how to do it at that point.
350. 23:53So the threats were real, but after being threatened, you made the observation, the very next verse
351. 23:57in Acts 4, that Peter and John praise God.
352. 24:02Yeah, that's Acts 4, 23.
353. 24:05after they were let go from that initial,
354. 24:07you know, standing before the Sanhedrin.
355. 24:09Verse 23 says they went and reported what had been said.
356. 24:14And when they had heard that,
357. 24:16they lifted up their voice to God with one accord
358. 24:19and said, Lord thou art God,
359. 24:22which made heaven and earth and the sea
360. 24:23and all that enemy is.
361. 24:25Now that is a counter-cultural response to persecution.
362. 24:30And I said the second Timothy 3, 12 was true.
363. 24:33All who live God in Christ Jesus will face
364. 24:35persecution will suffer persecution. That is a constant, that is a normative
365. 24:42reality for the believer. The variation though is only the intensity and the
366. 24:47type. Sure. You know the intensity and the type. So that's a reality. But there's a
367. 24:51counter-cultural response to follow suffering this iteration of persecution
368. 24:56by praising God. What struck you so much about that when you came across it and
369. 25:03And as well as you preaching your sermons.
370. 25:05Well, the fact that that is not typically our response to persecution.
371. 25:12You know, our response is typically to, you know, maybe recall in fear.
372. 25:16We worry about the consequences, you know, will I lose my job?
373. 25:22Will I lose my business?
374. 25:24Will I lose whatever, you know, fill in the blank?
375. 25:26I mean, our response is not typically one of praise
376. 25:31to difficulty, especially persecution.
377. 25:34And the fact that they did that with the real threat,
378. 25:39knowing that their lives were on the line
379. 25:43and ultimately we know what happened to them.
380. 25:46So the threats were real,
381. 25:47but yet they were willing to praise God in the face of that.
382. 25:51Just awe inspiring to me.
383. 25:53Yes.
384. 25:53Is it a reality for us today in the 21st century
385. 25:58as believers, as we face the reality of persecution?
386. 26:02Can we develop the type of internal disposition
387. 26:05to where that will become our response?
388. 26:07I think we can.
389. 26:08I think it's gonna take us being rooted in the word of God
390. 26:13to be able to do so.
391. 26:14And I think we're gonna have to understand
392. 26:17that persecution is a reality.
393. 26:21You just mentioned that all who live Godly,
394. 26:23shall suffer persecution.
395. 26:25Jesus told the disciples numerous times,
396. 26:27he said they'll put you before the magistrates
397. 26:30and they'll kick you out of the synagogues.
398. 26:33He said they shall and then he said, and when they do.
399. 26:37When, I did.
400. 26:38It wasn't like this was a potentiality,
401. 26:40this was going to happen.
402. 26:43It's just a matter of when.
403. 26:45And as you just said, we all suffer to a degree.
404. 26:47There are degrees of our suffering.
405. 26:50But I think first of all, you just have to understand
406. 26:52it is a reality.
407. 26:54We're going to face it in some degree.
408. 26:57Once you wrap your mind around that,
409. 26:58then the next question is, well, how do we respond to that?
410. 27:01And we have to look to the scripture for our guidance.
411. 27:03And if we're rooted in the scripture
412. 27:05and understand how they stood,
413. 27:07then we have precedent for how we should stand.
414. 27:09Amen.
415. 27:10And often, well, I'll say this first,
416. 27:12and I have been saying this a lot in my travels,
417. 27:16the freedom and the peace that Christianity has enjoyed
418. 27:22in America over the last 200 years,
419. 27:25really is an aberration from what Christians have experienced
420. 27:29all throughout the history of the Lord's Church,
421. 27:31all over the world.
422. 27:33Even up to present day.
423. 27:34Amen.
424. 27:35So we are in a position as Christians in our nation
425. 27:39really to come to bear with something that believers,
426. 27:44I brethren throughout the history of the church
427. 27:47and in the world today around the world
428. 27:50are already experiencing.
429. 27:52We need to understand that it's not,
430. 27:58you know, as if some strange thing is coming upon us.
431. 28:01Yeah, that's what Peter said.
432. 28:02Yeah. Yeah.
433. 28:03Yeah. You can go ahead.
434. 28:04You can take it. Yeah.
435. 28:05Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
436. 28:06Yeah. Peter said, you know, when this fiery trial
437. 28:07comes upon you, don't marvel as though it's some strange thing.
438. 28:12I mean, this is to be expected.
439. 28:15And you're mentioning church history,
440. 28:20the reality of persecution is outlined plainly in scripture.
441. 28:24But then if you look beyond scripture
442. 28:26and just study church history,
443. 28:28the first three centuries of the church,
444. 28:32they knew more of persecution than they did peace.
445. 28:35And then just study church history even from there.
446. 28:39And you'll find that persecution is a prominent theme.
447. 28:41And as you mentioned,
448. 28:42and I've mentioned this many times before as well,
449. 28:44in preaching and in articles that what we've experienced here
450. 28:48is an outlier in world history and the history of the church.
451. 28:53This is, it's a blessing, but in many ways,
452. 29:00and I almost hesitate to say this,
453. 29:01but in many ways it's weakened the church.
454. 29:04It's weakened the body of Christ.
455. 29:06I'd like to drill down there a little bit,
456. 29:08and I get it, I am as red blooded American as you can get.
457. 29:12I love the Lord's graces upon me, allowing me to be born
458. 29:17into the United States of America.
459. 29:19But I've been explaining that people think that Satan
460. 29:22only constructs prisons of hostility, difficulty, and lack.
461. 29:27Satan also constructs prisons of luxury and lives of ease
462. 29:32and casual approaches that allow a weakened
463. 29:37development of conviction that impacts any roads,
464. 29:42the quality of the life of believers,
465. 29:44which is why we have Deuteronomy 8,
466. 29:47Moses warning the second generation
467. 29:49of wilderness Israelites that you need to be careful
468. 29:53when you've eaten in your time as a field,
469. 29:55when your herds are multiplying and you have gold
470. 29:58and you have silver, that is when you need to be careful
471. 30:00because those other environments
472. 30:02where you develop a life quality
473. 30:05that is absent dependence and investment
474. 30:08and consistent pursuit of the Lord himself.
475. 30:11Absolutely.
476. 30:11So I understand your hesitation to say that in some ways,
477. 30:17this exceptional piece that we've enjoyed
478. 30:20hasn't weakened the church.
479. 30:22Would you speak to that a little bit?
480. 30:24Yeah, I mean historically, if you look at the church,
481. 30:27look at the body of Christ, the times that it's grown
482. 30:32the most, been the most powerful,
483. 30:36is during times of persecution.
484. 30:38In fact, if you fast forward from, we're in Acts four,
485. 30:41but if you fast forward to Acts eight,
486. 30:44you'll see that it was intensified persecution
487. 30:47that caused the church to scatter
488. 30:50and begin to fulfill the Acts one eight mandate
489. 30:54that Jesus had given.
490. 30:55The luxury, the relative peace they had experienced early
491. 31:01had almost seduced them into this desire
492. 31:04just to stay in Jerusalem.
493. 31:06They were happy.
494. 31:07They were content.
495. 31:09And I have submitted before that,
496. 31:11were it not for the persecution in Acts 8,
497. 31:15they may have never left that nest, so to speak.
498. 31:19Which means they may have never obeyed.
499. 31:22Obeyed the mandate.
500. 31:23What Jesus told them.
501. 31:24Yeah, absolutely.
502. 31:25In Matthew 28, echoed in Acts 1, 8, may not have obeyed.
503. 31:31You might have been very few but by and large,
504. 31:34it was the stoning of Stephen
505. 31:37that led to the dispersion,
506. 31:40but a lot of the dispersion was, oh snap,
507. 31:42we just watched what happened to Steven.
508. 31:44Yeah, in Jerusalem.
509. 31:46We gotta get out of here.
510. 31:48Could this be coming our way?
511. 31:49That's right.
512. 31:50And so it's sobering yes.
513. 31:53And one of the things that I've been endeavoring to anchor
514. 31:58in my own heart and to convey to others,
515. 32:00that it is not the Lord's desire for us to assess
516. 32:04and to navigate the potential of persecution
517. 32:07solely from a natural disposition.
518. 32:10But our eternal vantage point being ceded together in Christ Jesus and heavenly places is what enables us to have a proper
519. 32:18Assessment of what's happening in the here and now and I'd like to to get your take on that
520. 32:23As we go forward
521. 32:24You're listening to the Hamilton Corner Abraham Hamilton the third here with pastor Matthew white a pastor of New Hope Baptist Church
522. 32:31brother in the faith just a provocative writer and thinker and
523. 32:35And we want to continue this conversation because it's necessary for us to discuss the reality of persecution,
524. 32:42its imminence in our nation, and how we are to respond to it.
525. 32:47Stay close. You don't want to miss the remainder of this interview.
526. 32:49And I'll try to talk less. Let my guests talk more.
527. 32:52Because I'm getting excited. When I get excited, I tend to go. Stay close.
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546. 34:10The Hamilton Quarter podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets are available at afr.net.
547. 34:20Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
548. 34:24Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III. Here my guest is Pastor Matthew White,
549. 34:30brother of the faith pastor of New Hope Baptist Church and also a staff writer for the stand.
550. 34:35I wholeheartedly recommend to you his six part series entitled Preparing for Persecution.
551. 34:41and you can find it at afa.net.
552. 34:44And I want to encourage you and challenge you,
553. 34:47not only to read it for yourselves,
554. 34:49but to share it with your loved ones,
555. 34:51share it with your friends,
556. 34:53share it with your family members,
557. 34:54share it with your church families,
558. 34:55because these are the types of conversations we need to have.
559. 34:59I'm asked, Jay, Jay Mac, would you please put a link
560. 35:02to the whole series?
561. 35:04And when you click the first one,
562. 35:05you can have their hyperlinks,
563. 35:07you can get to the rest of them from the first article.
564. 35:10but starting from the first article,
565. 35:14Pastor Matthew discusses the reality of persecution.
566. 35:17And he goes into the reason for persecution,
567. 35:19the response to persecution, resolve amidst persecution,
568. 35:24and the resolution that we should have,
569. 35:28and I have the last one here,
570. 35:31it is having a boldness as we stand in the face
571. 35:36of that type of hostility.
572. 35:37But we were talking before the break
573. 35:39about the reality that the lack of persecution in many ways,
574. 35:42the lack, I'll say the relative ease we've had in our nation
575. 35:46has really set the stage to allow for a weakening to a degree,
576. 35:49a significant degree of the body of Christ in our nation.
577. 35:51And that's where we left off before the break.
578. 35:53Sure. Yeah, and when I say that I certainly,
579. 35:56and I know you don't either,
580. 35:57don't want to minimize the persecution that exists in this nation.
581. 36:01I mean, we, we, we, you guys talk about this on the air all the time.
582. 36:05We write about them, you know, Jack Phillips and the clients
583. 36:08and the very no studspons and the photographers
584. 36:10and the t-shirt designers.
585. 36:12And the coaches.
586. 36:13Just had a group at Auburn University.
587. 36:16Sure.
588. 36:17Baptizing students and faculty and others,
589. 36:19and now they have their jobs threatened.
590. 36:21Because they have to stay at university.
591. 36:23Or your in violation of some federal guideline
592. 36:26because you go to an abortion clinic
593. 36:28and seeing heeums or something of that nature.
594. 36:31Or if you in some countries stand outside
595. 36:32and pray quality to yourselves.
596. 36:33Right, right.
597. 36:34That's real.
598. 36:35It's real, and persecution exists.
599. 36:37And I certainly don't want to come across as minimizing that.
600. 36:42But you know what is interesting,
601. 36:43we're talking about the lack of persecution
602. 36:48in many cases, weakening the church,
603. 36:49but it's interesting to follow those cases
604. 36:54and those people are standing strong repeatedly.
605. 36:57Yes.
606. 36:58It's not just a one-time deal,
607. 36:59they're standing strong in the face of it
608. 37:01and oftentimes you see believers rally around them
609. 37:03to support them.
610. 37:04And so, you know, that dynamic of being strengthened and seeing growth in the midst of persecution,
611. 37:12it's playing out, you know, before our eyes today.
612. 37:15But, you know, certainly we don't suffer the way that the, or at least here in this
613. 37:19country, yet here in this, yet, yet, there are powers that be that, you know, probably
614. 37:25would like to see that changed.
615. 37:27But, but yes, overall, I think, you know, you see this luxury that we've enjoyed and
616. 37:34And I wholeheartedly agree with you.
617. 37:36I praise God for it.
618. 37:39But in many ways it has weakened our resolve
619. 37:46because we get to a place where we don't feel
620. 37:51as we need God as much, not as dependent
621. 37:54on the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives
622. 37:56because everything's convenient
623. 37:59and we can just do anything we want, how we want.
624. 38:02Now, I just ticked off some of the sub lines, I guess I would say, and from your pieces,
625. 38:10when you began with the reality of persecution, the reason for persecution, just if you can
626. 38:16kind of summarize what you encapsulated in your piece, the second installation concerning
627. 38:21the reason for persecution.
628. 38:23How would you convey that to our audience here?
629. 38:26Well, I would say that from the standpoint of our enemy, the reason for persecution is
630. 38:34to destroy the church.
631. 38:38And obviously he can't destroy it because Jesus has given us the promise that the gates
632. 38:42of hell will not prevail against it.
633. 38:44But he's going to try everything he can to make it as ineffective as possible.
634. 38:48And so from his standpoint, and he doesn't care how he does it, doesn't care if it's secular
635. 38:55or he doesn't care if it manifests itself in secular ways,
636. 38:59we understand that it's all spiritual.
637. 39:03So it can manifest itself in secular ways
638. 39:07or it can be truly the spiritual realm,
639. 39:11that side of things, but on his end,
640. 39:15the reason is to disrupt the work of the church.
641. 39:19Now, God's purposes in persecution are much greater.
642. 39:25for us as believers.
643. 39:28We're sanctified through persecution.
644. 39:33We've already spoken about the church growing
645. 39:36and so we often see much more unity.
646. 39:40As we see here in Acts 4.
647. 39:43I mean, these people were unified
648. 39:45despite the persecution and then there's identification.
649. 39:51We're never more like Christ than when we're suffering.
650. 39:54I think it was Paul who said to bearing his marks
651. 40:00or for taking, for takers, fellow, for takers
652. 40:03in his sufferings.
653. 40:05You know, so we're identified with Christ
654. 40:09and you know, we're not above our master.
655. 40:11If our master suffered, that's pretty good indication
656. 40:14that we're probably gonna suffer to some degree as well.
657. 40:17Now when you refer to the enemy's desires
658. 40:20in aiding and agitating for the persecution of the church
659. 40:26when you refer to it as the destruction of the church
660. 40:28and the disrupting of the church.
661. 40:30What do you mean when you say that?
662. 40:31The destruction of the church?
663. 40:33Well, the watering down of the preaching of the word of God,
664. 40:38if he can insert himself with all of these deviations of truth,
665. 40:43whether it's critical race theory
666. 40:47or whether it's in the gender equality or LGBTQ
667. 40:53or we could list a hundred different categories.
668. 40:57And all of those are substrata from critical theory
669. 40:59in the overarching sense.
670. 41:00Sure.
671. 41:01Critical quiet theory, critical race theory,
672. 41:03they're all substrata from the overarching Marxist operation
673. 41:10of critical theory.
674. 41:11Yeah.
675. 41:12And it's all just an attempt to deviate
676. 41:16from God's word.
677. 41:18I mean,
678. 41:18destroy people's faith in Christ.
679. 41:21In Christ, in Christ.
680. 41:22And they're reliant on the Word of God.
681. 41:26Amen.
682. 41:27And that's, well, I mean, that's what happened
683. 41:31in the original fall.
684. 41:33I mean, has, did God really say?
685. 41:35Did he really say that?
686. 41:37You know?
687. 41:38And so if you can begin to undermine the scripture
688. 41:41at any point and you can begin to undermine a believer
689. 41:46or professing believer, if you can begin to undermine their trust
690. 41:51in the reliability of scripture,
691. 41:54well then they can question anything at that point.
692. 41:58You know, did God really say, or does it really mean?
693. 42:01Does it really mean that?
694. 42:03And so that's what I mean when I talk about Satan's attempt
695. 42:06to destroy deconstruct, we really a lot about deconstructionism
696. 42:10today, to deconstruct, to undermine the validity
697. 42:15validity and reliability of God's Word. And then that comes across, unfortunately, many times through
698. 42:22the pulpit. Yes. And I wanted to highlight that because
699. 42:29when suffering is on the horizon, sometimes we can fail to recognize Satan's true objective.
700. 42:37Like, Satan doesn't care if you are a wealthy or a poor rebel, as long as you're a rebel.
701. 42:42He doesn't care if you are starving or well fed rebel as long as you're a rebel.
702. 42:46He doesn't care if you are a popular or an unknown hellbound person.
703. 42:53He wants you to reject the free gift of salvation in Jesus Christ and ultimately be his companion
704. 43:00in eternal damnation.
705. 43:01That's what his desires are.
706. 43:03And so I say that so that we can keep in focus what the true objectives are.
707. 43:09you know, because some people might think, well, you know, you know, they just want to take our
708. 43:13freedoms. Well, say, doesn't care if you have a first amendment and the second amendment,
709. 43:17as long as you are, you reject Christ. Or if you don't have a first, now, if attacking your first
710. 43:24and second amendment can get you to lose confidence in Christ, well, he's all forward. And so I'm saying
711. 43:29that just so we can have a proper scope to be able to evaluate what truly is the objective,
712. 43:34because that will enable us to do a better job of, as James says, with standing the enemy.
713. 43:41Jesus told Peter, Satan wants to sift you, but I prayed for you that your faith may not fail.
714. 43:50These are the things that should be front and center as we're navigating these issues,
715. 43:54and as we're encouraging one another, we have to wear with all two, encourage one another,
716. 43:58so that we don't allow the secondary things or the means of attack to become the focus
717. 44:03as if that is the objective of the various types of attacks.
718. 44:07That's why I wanted to draw that out.
719. 44:10But then you also go on to explain the response
720. 44:14for persecution, the fourth installation,
721. 44:16and even in the sixth and final one,
722. 44:18you talk about the courageousness
723. 44:20of the believers in the Book of Acts
724. 44:21and in the face of persecution.
725. 44:24How would you, you know, to kind of distill
726. 44:27for the audience here now, how our response,
727. 44:30what we should be in terms of what we should strive toward
728. 44:33and then how we may be able to, as Paul to Timothy,
729. 44:36to train ourselves for godliness,
730. 44:38to be able to grow into being able to stand toward that
731. 44:42projected place where we wanna be
732. 44:44in the face of persecution.
733. 44:45Sure.
734. 44:46Well, I think you start with understanding the reality
735. 44:49that it's real, that the persecution is likely
736. 44:53or will be faced in some degree.
737. 44:55Once you understand that, then you're in a position
738. 44:58where you say, okay God, I need boldness, I need courage.
739. 45:03because if I'm just being honest, Abe,
740. 45:06if I look at myself in the flesh,
741. 45:10I don't know that I could withstand some of these things
742. 45:12that the early church went through
743. 45:15and even some of the things that I read about today,
744. 45:18that believers go through.
745. 45:20Oftentimes, I wonder could I withstand that?
746. 45:26And I have to come to the conclusion that in my flesh,
747. 45:29no, I could not.
748. 45:30It's going to take the power of the Holy Spirit
749. 45:33to withstand should I have to encounter something of that nature.
750. 45:37And so we have to have a firm reliance on God in the midst of it.
751. 45:44And you'll find the believers,
752. 45:47I think they understood they couldn't do it either.
753. 45:49That's why they prayed for boldness.
754. 45:53They prayed that God would give them courage and boldness.
755. 45:56That they could continue to stand in the midst of it.
756. 46:00And I think that's where we have to go as well.
757. 46:02understand our limitations in our flesh and then pray for God through the power of the Holy Spirit to give us what we need to stand.
758. 46:10Man, just in the first segment today, I focused on 1st, I'm sorry, 2nd Timothy chapter 1 verses 1 through 7, but I specifically spend some time in verses 6 and 7 because there's a verse in verse 7, it's often quoted.
759. 46:24No, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind,
760. 46:29which is a great verse for the broad application.
761. 46:31But if we quoted or think about it, deprived of its context, I think we can miss something
762. 46:37that the Lord intends for us to have.
763. 46:39That verse, the Apostle Paul, articulates in this epistle to Timothy after he made the observation
764. 46:44where he reminds Timothy of his faith in verse 5, for our mindful of the sincere faith within
765. 46:49you, which first dwelt in your grandmother, Loyce, and your mother, Eunice, and I'm sure
766. 46:53that is in you as well. For this reason, I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God,
767. 47:00which is in you through the laying on of my hands. Now, I say that because it seems pretty
768. 47:05clear what Paul is talking about is when he was a part of commissioning Timothy into the
769. 47:11ministry by the laying on of hands, because he's standing in the face, having received this letter
770. 47:15from Paul in prison, you know, in a modern kind, you get a letter from jail, you know, it's from
771. 47:20jail. You know, it is not a letter that comes to regular person. Parsa comes from jail.
772. 47:24And so a Roman prison does not like modern American prison do process or laws, constitutional,
773. 47:29this kind of stuff. And ultimately, Lissie pistol is pinned shortly before Paul's ultimate
774. 47:34execution. So when Timothy received this letter, he is standing in the face, staring in the face,
775. 47:42the reality of what the consequences could very well be for him.
776. 47:45I'm following Paul's example, you know, when, when Paul said in first Corinthians 11, 11,
777. 47:52one, you know, be imitated as a me as I follow Christ, follow me as I follow Christ. Well,
778. 47:56that's not only talking about in resounding sermons and glowing theological presentations
779. 48:01is also talking about follow me even if suffering, it causes you jail to be in chains like me.
780. 48:08And so it's in the face of that when he says, fan into flame, the gift. Why would Paul
781. 48:13I'll say that probably because Timothy might've got a little hesitant.
782. 48:17I don't, I don't know if I want to do this other thing no more.
783. 48:21You know, I could end up over there and immediately there after making that
784. 48:25observation, Paul says, for God has not given us a spirit of fear.
785. 48:30Sound mind, but he's given us power and love and a sound mind.
786. 48:37And I talk about the Greek word is de lea for fear there is timidity.
787. 48:40It means cowardice in the term in the first century was used as an insult.
788. 48:44You know, when you saw a person who seen to be you little
789. 48:47Delia, you know, you little God has not given us that spirit.
790. 48:50Timothy, don't allow the sufferings to intimidate you away
791. 48:54from understanding the internal significance of what we're
792. 48:57called to.
793. 48:58Without that context, we can mistrually, I think,
794. 49:00with the Lord trying to communicate to us in that verse.
795. 49:02Oh, yeah.
796. 49:02Yeah, we can.
797. 49:05And I can't help you mention Stephen.
798. 49:08And we only have about a minute.
799. 49:09Oh, I'm sorry.
800. 49:10You mentioned Stephen a little bit earlier.
801. 49:13Acts chapter 7. I just can't help but think about the courage that it took for
802. 49:19Him to stand before those people and preach the boldness and to be able to
803. 49:25look up and see Jesus accepting Him in that way. It's just an amazing, amazing, amazing.
804. 49:30Brothers and sisters, this is the reality of where we are. What the Lord has said in
805. 49:35His Word is true. Our prayer and hope for you is that we would not flee from
806. 49:41persecution but we can say along with our brothers in the faith we can rejoice
807. 49:44even in the face of persecution. The views and opinions expressed in this
808. 49:51broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or
809. 49:55American Family Radio.