December 31, 2024 · 48:53

("Best-of" Edition from 4/5/24) Kendra White and Anne Cockrell, co-hosts of Hannah’s Heart return to “The Corner.”

Bible & Theology

Show notes

0:00 - 15:00. Romans 8:5-8. Carnal mindedness places one at enmity against God. 15:00 - 31:00. Kendra White and Anne Cockrell, co-hosts of Hannah’s Heart return to “The Corner.” 31:00 - 48:00. Non-discard facilities, Alabama’s acknowledgment of person-hood in the IVF context, what is it all about?

References & links

Full transcript Auto-generated · 9,097 words

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
0:02It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
0:06This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
0:10It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
0:15Delivery people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
0:18And the philosophies of this world.
0:20God has called you and me to be His ambassador.
0:23Even in this dark moment.
0:26Let's not miss our moment.
0:28And now, the Hamilton Corner.
0:31Good evening, everyone.
0:34This is the day that the Lord has made, and I will rejoice,
0:38and be glad in it.
0:39And I invite you to rejoice with me, Abraham Hamilton
0:42III is my name.
0:43I'm the host of the Hamilton Corner of the program
0:45that you are listening to at the moment.
0:47I am accompanied by a produced extraordinaire, often imitated.
0:51Y'all know the drill.
0:52Never duplicate it.
0:53Not successfully, anyway.
0:56There is no AI chat GPT.
0:59That can replace Jeff MAC.
1:01You can put that on your bumper sticker, Jeff.
1:09Well, man, it is a great day.
1:12It's an honor and privilege to be in the Kingdom of God.
1:14It's also an honor to be able to converse with you.
1:18There are so many outlets available to you.
1:21And so you making the decision to invite us into your life,
1:25into your cars, into your homes.
1:27We certainly do appreciate that at this very moment.
1:30many of you, if not most of you are transitioning from your part time jobs, where you generate
1:35an income to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
1:38And as you do so, I want to remind you to do so with intentionality, understanding the
1:42promise that God places on family.
1:45What goes on in your house is far more important than what goes on in the White House.
1:53We will be hitting the road quite a bit this summer.
1:57June 6th through the 8th, Richmond, Virginia at the HEAV,
2:0241st annual Home Educators Association of Virginia Conference.
2:08It's gonna be an amazing time there.
2:09Then we'll be in Denver, Colorado
2:12at the Rocky Mountain Home School Conference,
2:15June 13th through the 15th.
2:17Those are back-to-back weeks.
2:19You can go to afr.net, click on the More Info tab.
2:24You'll see a drop-down dialog box.
2:26hit speakers and that is where you can keep up with my itinerary for where we will be all
2:33throughout the year. I'm looking forward to not only being on the road but being able to broadcast
2:38live from from different places. We will broadcast live from the HEAV conference in Virginia. We
2:44also later on this is in September but will be in Nashville. Jay Mac and I will be there
2:49as well as more of the crew. You might get a Hamiltonian sighting there you know but we're
2:55We're looking forward to that.
2:56And let me just ask this question.
2:57Now have you got your tickets yet?
2:59Med your registration for the Culture Proof Conference?
3:01If not, what are you waiting for?
3:03Because I know some of you guys like to procrastinate
3:06and wait until the last minute
3:07and you're gonna wait and you're gonna wait
3:09and then it's gonna be too late.
3:11So go to cultureproof.net right now.
3:14Get your registration in.
3:15It is a conference for the entire family.
3:18In addition to the lineup of speakers
3:21I've been explaining to you telling you all about.
3:24My lovely wife will be directing
3:25the culture proof kids track to where your children will be introduced to apologetics.
3:30Will there also be culture proof teams where marketing Amy Warren will be leading that
3:34outfit but there's something additional that'll be available.
3:37There will be a workshop and a meet up for young adults.
3:44You know, I'm not trying to get anybody's business, but you know, one of the things that
3:47I strongly believe in that as the world is going haywire that I believe in getting
3:51good godly people together, especially if they're adults.
3:54And I ain't trying to match making anything, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying.
3:59It'd probably be a good place for your young adult to meet some other young adults that are
4:03similarly situated in sharing a biblical worldview I'm just saying.
4:06I told my wife I said, listen, I ain't, I'm not above arranged marriages.
4:11I'm not trying to force anybody, but listen, one of the things I'm going to be doing that
4:17I will do for my children is I'll be on the lookout.
4:20You know, I got, you know, look at Jeff, look at that.
4:23I'm using my eye.
4:23I'm not playing at all.
4:25I'm not playing it.
4:26I'm dead serious.
4:27I'm gonna be on the lookout, you know?
4:30So as my son gets older, as I'm telling you guys,
4:33I love my children.
4:35I want them to enjoy their adolescence,
4:37but let's keep it clear.
4:38Let's keep it a buck.
4:40My responsibility is to train them for adulthood.
4:43So we're not trying to arrest their development,
4:45you know, and for the ones who the Lord has revealed
4:48and it continues to reveal that it's his will for them
4:50to marry that my wife and I will be an integral part
4:53of that process.
4:54So we're gonna be able to look out.
4:57You know, I can see the time coming
4:59when I approach Christian, have you considered?
5:01Heh heh heh heh heh.
5:05Hey, I think I'm playing, I'm not playing at all.
5:07Heh heh heh heh.
5:11I'll be lowing to look out.
5:12I got two of them.
5:14I'm gonna look out.
5:17Something else that I'm aware of that might be a reality
5:20that the Lord may require and it may be necessary
5:23for me to disciple a young man who may be ultimately joined
5:29among one of my daughters, you know, that's a very real
5:33possibility. So I'm just saying, the other places you could be.
5:39But in July, I would suggest you make your way to Bartlett,
5:44Tennessee. I'm leaving right there. I watch registration about
5:48explode. Now, I'm just telling you, all right, to the word of
5:53we go Romans chapter eight, we're going to go back here. I introduced a discussion around these
5:59verses on Wednesday, but I want to continue it because, man, it's patently obvious that many
6:08professing believers do not comprehend or do not believe that carnal my didness is death.
6:19Romans 8, verses 5 through 8, this is what God's word says. For those who are according to the flesh
6:29set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the spirit, the things of
6:37the spirit. For the mind set on the flesh, well some translations render that phrase,
6:43for to be carnally minded is death.
6:49But the mind said on the Spirit is life and peace.
6:55Because the mind said on the flesh or the carnal mind
6:58is hostile toward God.
7:01Or some translations say the carnal mind
7:04is at enmity against God.
7:07For it does not subject itself to the law of God,
7:10for it is not even able to do so.
7:13and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
7:19We talked Wednesday at length about the reality that
7:22the carnal mind carnal mindedness,
7:24the mindset on the flesh is death.
7:28Paul is writing this to Christians in Rome.
7:30Why?
7:31Because Christians can be tempted to
7:33and ultimately embrace carnal mindedness.
7:39This is how you can have a phenomenon
7:41where you have Christian men to get together,
7:42but all they really want to talk about is football
7:44or the stock market, or the latest cars,
7:47or how much money they have in the bank.
7:49Who has this? Who has that? Who has this?
7:52Who has that? That's carnal mind in this, man.
7:56And that mean we can't have conversations
7:57about these things that are substantive,
7:59but if every time we get together,
8:00this is all we talk about?
8:04How is that the frequent conversation?
8:07If Christ is our treasure.
8:11Oh, I ain't even know, man, me Christians.
8:13We ain't always gotta be talking about the spirit of thing.
8:15We ain't always gotta be talking about
8:18where the deep, the spiritual things are gone.
8:21That's true, you don't have to,
8:25but you know what I found?
8:26When you meet people, you meet their passion.
8:30When someone is passionate about something,
8:32you have a hard time keeping them from talking about it.
8:36All I'm saying is could it be
8:38that your frequent conversation topics,
8:41the things that you enjoy dialoguing about,
8:44could it be that it is revealing carnal mindedness?
8:51The apostle Paul continues on,
8:52but the mind set on the spirit,
8:54The mindset on the spirit is life and peace.
9:00Life in the temporal and eternal sense
9:03and peace in the temporal sense.
9:07This is how you can be in the midst of all kind of chaos,
9:10but there's an internal repository of peace.
9:15Exemplified, for example, when the storm is raging,
9:19the people on the boat are panicking,
9:21but Jesus is asleep.
9:24Master, don't you can't we perish?
9:26What, what, what, what?
9:28Have y'all forgot who was in this boat?
9:34But then verse seven, do we realize this?
9:37Because the mindset on the flesh, the carnal mind
9:41is that enmity against God is hostile towards God.
9:45Do you realize that?
9:47See, we have to understand that sometimes
9:49we understand that it's the cultural sense,
9:50but we don't really apply it to our devotion to Christ
9:53and I walk with him.
9:54There is no such thing as neutral, guys.
9:58There's no such thing as neutral.
9:59The carnal mind is hostile toward God.
10:02Why?
10:02Because he's...
10:06It have anything to take up bandwidth in your heart,
10:09to take up space in your mind,
10:11to take up residency in the core of who you are,
10:15which is where God is supposed to be,
10:17becomes an enemy of God.
10:18This is why I've said numerous times,
10:20when good conflicts with God wonder what's got to go.
10:25I explained before, man, my life,
10:29all the way up until I went to college was basketball.
10:33My parents will tell you, I slept with the basketball.
10:36I didn't play with toys, I didn't really play video games,
10:39I didn't really do anything unless it had to do with basketball.
10:42My sisters would tell you, my girl,
10:43he ain't interested unless it's balling.
10:47And what ended up occurring as the Lord captured my heart,
10:51first in saving faith, secondarily in sanctifying me,
10:55it's not that I ever stopped liking basketball.
10:57I still enjoy basketball to this day.
11:01You know, for the first time in my life,
11:03I'm watching the women's NCAA tournament
11:05way more than I'm considering amends and double eight tournament.
11:08By the way, LSU had a better team than Iowa.
11:12But Caitlyn Clark gave him the business.
11:14I don't know why Kim Mokey had Haley Van Litt's 5'7 garden
11:17Caitlyn Clark the whole game.
11:18Caitlyn Clark's 6' then the other thing I understand,
11:21why you kept letting the girl go left?
11:23She always dribbles side step to the left and take a shot.
11:26Sit on that left side, make her go right.
11:28Make her drive to the basket, make the other people away.
11:30Anyway, I still enjoy basketball.
11:32But what happened is that God captured my heart
11:35with the super-seeding love.
11:37I never stopped liking basketball,
11:40but Christ became more prominent in my affection,
11:45in my desire, and in my dialogue than basketball.
11:50People who know me my real life, my real life.
11:53Away from this microphone, they'll tell you,
11:57I'm consistently talking about the things of God.
11:59And I'm not saying this to pop my collar
12:01like, yeah, it's the only deep in the spiritual.
12:04But when you capture the love of your life,
12:06it's evident in everything about you. You can hide behind lies, but you cannot hide passion.
12:12The bottom line is if we are honest, the majority, I won't say the majority, but many of us,
12:16because I don't know the majority, but based on what's produced in terms of fruit, it seems evident
12:21that more in the professing body of Christ have other affections than they are affected toward the Lord.
12:31Some of us, we love politics more than we love the Lord. Let's just keep it apart.
12:34We have more confidence, more hope in our particular party, our particular candidates than we do in the
12:39Lord, that's just keeping it above. What we don't understand, though, what the Scriptures
12:43revealing is to be carnally minded, is to be an enmity against God, to have hostility toward God.
12:50Why? Because he's God. What's the first commandment? You shall have no other gods before him, before him.
12:58And that description includes before, beside, simply there are no rivals.
13:05But too many of us have become comfortable, accommodating, and hospitable towards carnal
13:11mindedness and I simply want to shake you out of that stupor to help you to recognize
13:15whoa it could be that my affections are revealing that while I profess to be in Christ I am steeped
13:24in carnal mindedness. Oh man how as a human rider says shall we escape if we neglect so
13:40greater salvation how can we be in Christ but yet fascinated and captured by something else.
13:45I understand we live in this world.
13:47I understand we need money to live in this world.
13:49I understand we have bills to pay.
13:51I have electricity in my own home.
13:53I have water in my own home.
13:55I have grass that needs to be cut.
13:57All of those things are true,
14:00but they should not supplant or surpass
14:02my commitment to Christ.
14:05And my commitment to Christ
14:08should be palpably evident
14:11in my frequent conversation.
14:13To be carnally minded is death.
14:18To be carnally minded is to be hostile toward God.
14:24Colossians, the Apostle Paul explains in his episode
14:27to the Colossians that if we are in Christ
14:29into our by our spirit, we now have the newfound capacity
14:32to set our affections.
14:34If you recognize through this discourse
14:36that you may be carnally minded,
14:38the only thing that's needed is to humbly confess that
14:42to God because it is sinful and repent
14:46and ask God to reorder your affections
14:50to where you will no longer be carnally minded,
14:53but you are captivated by the supremacy of Christ.
15:00According to a recent study of hundreds
15:02of post-aportive women, 60% reported
15:05that they would have preferred to give birth
15:07if they had received more support from others
15:09or had more financial security.
15:12And that's where preborn steps in.
15:14Preborn is there for women in their darkest hour,
15:17deciding between the life and death of their precious child.
15:20You see, the reality is, women are being pressured to make this fatal decision and are
15:25being told that their babies are just a clump of cells.
15:29Preborn welcomes women with God's love and introduces them to the beautiful life growing
15:33inside of them, which doubles their babies' chance at life.
15:37When you support preborn, you not only support women, you empower them.
15:42Your donation of $28 will help a woman to make a choice that she won't have to regret
15:46for the rest of her life and gives her the ultimate blessing.
15:50your love can save a life.
15:53Just dial pound 250 and say the key word baby.
15:56That's pound 250, baby.
15:59Or visit preborn.com.
16:01That's preborn.com.
16:03Shining light into the darkness,
16:10this is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
16:14Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner and there back.
16:18In Conquerel.
16:20Kendra White, co-hosts of Hannah's Heart,
16:23heart which can be heard every Saturday from 5 to 5 30 p.m.
16:27Same time you listen to this program on Saturdays, turn it on.
16:30You'll hear their program on Saturdays as well as 11 the 11 30 a.m.
16:35On Sundays, so depending on what time you gather with the Lord's people for
16:38worship, you could either be on your way or after here and in the Kendra on Hannah's
16:44heart where their program focuses on encouraging couples, walking through
16:48infertility and miscarriage.
16:50it is about clinging to Christ, the ultimate hope and finding peace and joy in the midst
16:54of the journey.
16:56Notice the journey, not the destination because God is good regardless of the outcome of our
17:03journey but enjoying him through that process.
17:05Anakin, thank you guys for coming back here.
17:08It's a delight.
17:10Entering the thunder.
17:11An honor to be here.
17:12Oh, the honor is mine.
17:14In our last conversation and I say, please, would you guys come back and I didn't ask you
17:18you off there, ask you on the air.
17:20You can feel the pressure of a few of our closest friends
17:24from around the country.
17:25But now you guys graciously agreed to do so
17:27because we were having a conversation which is vital
17:30in our current climate, but not just in our current climate
17:34because what I endeavor to do to this program
17:36and some days I feel like I do a better job than others
17:39is to establish a biblical framework
17:41from which we engage the issues of our day.
17:43You know, having a biblical worldview,
17:45one of the fundamental flaws I believe we have
17:47is people often describe the book of worldview
17:49starting with how it impacts us.
17:52When really the foundation will starting point
17:54should be God.
17:55In its God's world, it is His view,
17:58and we have the express privilege of embracing His view
18:01in navigating life, which unsurprisingly is best
18:05for us to thrive, not just to survive, but to thrive.
18:08And one of those areas where I think it's vitally necessary
18:12is on the issue of life.
18:14If we, as a society had an established understanding concern
18:18in the sanctity of life,
18:20I don't think we'd have such a visceral knee jerk reaction
18:23to things like the Alabama ruling and issues
18:25like in vitro fertilization.
18:26So I wanna begin the conversation now,
18:29really continuing from our previous conversation
18:31around the Alabama ruling.
18:34There are a lot of factual details that people don't know.
18:36And so what, I guess I'll start with you, Kendra,
18:38what do people need to know about that case,
18:41factually first and then and I'll ask you to then talk about the ruling and in particular the judges in my opinion
18:49Affirmation of the sanctative human life sure so my understanding is that the case revolves around some families who had some frozen embryos
18:57And they were pro-life families that were looking forward
19:00To be able to implant these and when we say frozen embryos, let's go ahead and clarify for some of our listeners
19:06We're talking about babies. Yeah, we're talking about humans that have been created
19:09Conception has already occurred.
19:12After some stage one human beings.
19:13Yes.
19:14So I guess somebody broke in to one of the fertility clinics.
19:20And I don't know the details around how that happened, but there were not proper protocols
19:25in place.
19:26Went to take out one of these frozen vials, dropped it, and these lives were lost.
19:31So these families are obviously heartbroken that these lives were destroyed because of carelessness.
19:38they are suing for negligence of how this is and they are
19:43it's it's not murder i believe the charge is that it's wrongful death which
19:47you could probably mister lawyer pants tell us
19:49that's his official title
19:51so that's what they were in the air
19:53the seat of my legal knowledge comes from the
19:56from the pants that he wears but yet so they're there wanting uh... these lives
20:00to be acknowledged you know so the first thing that happened had to happen in
20:03this court case was they had to acknowledge that that was life
20:07So that's what really happened here.
20:08And so then the reactions that came from this,
20:12all of the clinics in Alabama closing down
20:16and saying IVF is ruined forever was basically
20:19because this ruling acknowledged
20:20that life begins at conception,
20:23they're gonna say, well, you are gonna have
20:24some responsibility after you create it.
20:27And some of the typical protocols that were in place
20:30at these clinics did not prepare for that.
20:34So now I don't know that they necessarily needed to close
20:38and stop in the middle of IVF treatments
20:40for all of these couples,
20:41but the fear was,
20:45if they had been practicing all along
20:48that life begins at conception and is sacred,
20:50they would not have had to shut doors.
20:52And you wouldn't have had that,
20:53such an extreme reaction to that.
20:55Then of course, there was a movement
20:57to try to reverse the ruling,
20:59or they were trying to save IVF,
21:01you just saw a lot of stuff on social media of couples.
21:03There's so many scare tactics out there to make people say that we can't do IVF anymore.
21:10I don't have control over my embryos, and that was just not the case.
21:14It's not true.
21:15It was not true.
21:16So a little of the legalese wanted a distinction in the conclusion being wrongful death versus
21:20homicide.
21:21It's simply taken out the technical legal Latin phrases mens rea.
21:25And so it is the mental component.
21:27It wasn't an intentional termination of human life.
21:31It was a non-intentional action that led to the termination of human life.
21:36Hence, the wrongful death assessment as opposed to homicide and the judge in the case are authored.
21:42It pretty strong articulation of the fact that a conceived child, when egg and sperm meet,
21:51that new life is formed, that that is in fact a human being within the previously established
21:59Alabama State Constitution in the constitutional framework.
22:02And so it shouldn't have been a surprise to people
22:05that the state of Alabama recognized
22:08a stage one human being as in fact a human being,
22:10but what ended up happening was the political football
22:12that happened as a result of it when people panic and say,
22:15oh no, this is going to happen
22:18because all is necessary is to treat human life
22:20with the care that is required for human lives.
22:24Just the left pushing back,
22:25they were trying to make it seem like any IVF doctor,
22:28that they're responsible if even conception does not occur,
22:32that they're killing babies, which is not the truth.
22:34That's not the same thing.
22:35That's not the same thing.
22:36Or someone had a miscarriage or something like that.
22:37There are some facilities that are faith-based,
22:40that are very responsible, very few of them,
22:44but they do IVF in different ways.
22:46And nobody is trying to accuse a doctor
22:47if a conception does not occur,
22:50or even if it's unfortunately,
22:53we live in a very fallen world where the chemicals
22:57in our world, the toxins impact, once a frozen embryo
23:01is created their ability to continue on.
23:04And so nobody is holding doctors responsible for those lives
23:07that just genetically have problems and stop.
23:10But there is what we're trying to put in place
23:13is some regulations to say, you need to treat this as a life.
23:17And I think that's an important distinction.
23:20This is a lot of the news is trying to make it just,
23:24IVF is completely done away with
23:26and these Republicans who are,
23:28they claim to be pro-lifers,
23:29but they don't want, they're against families.
23:32And look at this family.
23:33They don't want a family to be able to grow, you know?
23:36It's just so the opposite
23:37of what anyone's trying to do with this case.
23:41And Alabama's actually not the only state
23:43that has already done this,
23:44Louisiana is also another state
23:47that makes you view these embryos as children.
23:50And if you don't view them as children,
23:52they are viewed as property.
23:53We need to know that's the thing.
23:54that you can just like FedEx these babies in the mail,
23:58you know, like overnight.
23:59I'm like, does that sound right?
24:01It's not right, you know, like we need to protect
24:04these little lives.
24:05And they are the most innocent out of,
24:08and vulnerable out of anyone, you know?
24:10And so, you know, us as humans, we have created
24:14a huge problem, having ever 1.2 million frozen embryos
24:20in the United States.
24:22And so there's, I don't know if we touched on it
24:24but there's a lot stricter regulations in other countries,
24:28as in Germany and France,
24:30that you can't just go off and start creating embryos
24:34that you don't have any plans to use,
24:36because now look at our predicament
24:38that we're in right now.
24:40And on a pastoral side of this,
24:42not that I'm a pastor,
24:43but in the way that we minister to other believers,
24:46I think it's really important that the average Christian
24:49understands what IVF is, what the typical protocol is,
24:54and that there are other ways of doing it
24:56that are more life affirming,
24:58so that when a couple comes to you
25:00and they're in your congregation and they say,
25:02ah, we're struggling and then we're thinking about IVF,
25:06you can help educate them and have a compassionate conversation
25:10that's also truthful, you know,
25:12because Jesus was the perfect,
25:15perfectly filled with truth and love.
25:17And it wasn't a balance of those two.
25:19He was not 50% of one and 50% of the other.
25:22He was 100% both.
25:24And so I think as Christians, we're being accused right now
25:27of not having a heart for those that are struggling
25:29with infertility.
25:30That's why Hannah's heart exists.
25:32We get it.
25:33It's so painful.
25:35And there does have to be a certain level of compassion
25:37when you're approaching couples,
25:38who this is their only option for building a family.
25:41Nobody comes to IVF just because it's fun.
25:43It is awful.
25:44It is not a fun process.
25:46And usually it's the last step.
25:48And they've gone through so much.
25:50And so we do have to have compassion,
25:52but we can't let our compassion
25:55keep us from speaking the truth of God's word.
25:58Yeah, when you say, and I wanna be clear
26:00for everybody listening,
26:01because you know people can hear what they wanna miss here,
26:04when you say it is awful,
26:05you're not talking about IVF being awful in and of itself,
26:07but you're talking about being in the position
26:10to where it is your last co-potentialist.
26:13And it's expensive, there's a lot of hormones
26:16that are difficult on your body.
26:18The impact on.
26:18impact anyone who's had to endure IVF.
26:21Man, I see you and I feel you and it's difficult
26:24and I understand what that's like.
26:26Yeah.
26:27Let's take a moment and many people know already
26:30but I'd like to start with Anne,
26:31just tell a little bit of your personal journey
26:33when you say Hannah's heart exists because of your,
26:37not only sympathy but your empathy
26:39with people who are struggling through this issue.
26:42So my husband and I, basically like a lot of other couples,
26:46know we had our like we called the two-year plan you know after we get married
26:51we want to be married for about a year or two and then try for kiddos and so that
26:54two-year mark came up and no one in my family that I knew of at the time had
26:59struggled with infertility or anything and so you know you just kind of picture
27:04like you just get off of birth control because that's what I was on at the time
27:08I would not encourage anyone to get on birth control just more natural methods
27:13So I'm not trying to say, you know, to just
27:15that's the conversation.
27:16And it is, it is, it is.
27:18But I fully, and I might have some corrections on this,
27:22but I do believe it messed my body up
27:24after years of taking such an unnatural product.
27:28You're not alone in that conclusion.
27:30I know.
27:31There are many people, especially many women listening
27:32right now, they're saying amen, amen.
27:34Right.
27:35Well, that is my personal conviction now,
27:37and that is what we will live on with, my husband and I.
27:41but after that, getting as graciously tried for a long time
27:48and that had lots of physical symptoms
27:51that I didn't know what was going on.
27:53To be honest, I was kinda passed around
27:54on the medical field of just like,
27:58normally this wouldn't cause as much pain.
27:59I'm surprised you even felt that.
28:01And you know, just whatever.
28:02I went to the ER one time and like totally acted like I was,
28:07you know, there was no reason for me to be there.
28:09Well, I ended up finding out I had multiple cysts that I'd ruptured and they didn't catch
28:13that until days later when blood work came back.
28:16And so anyway, just things that I had never had problems with, all of a sudden I was having
28:21problems with month to month.
28:24And so anyway, long story short, I ended up going to a different doctor who day one he
28:31diagnosed me with polycystic ovarian syndrome.
28:34And if you're in the infertility world at all, you know, what that is.
28:38It's just lots of complications with female problems that you have month to month and so
28:44and it definitely can cause weight gain, it can cause type 2 diabetes, acne and infertility
28:52and miscarriage and so that is we have walked through six miscarriages now and miscarriages
29:00have continued on after even now having a baby girl.
29:05But anyway, we started getting on different medicines and yeah, it makes your body, makes
29:13you go kind of crazy when you're on these different hormones and not really even understanding
29:19yourself when you look in the mirror and you're like, I don't even know who I am right now
29:23because they make you feel so crazy.
29:25But anyway, after almost four years of being after being diagnosed with infertility, PCOS,
29:32and surgeries, hormones, all the things.
29:34My doctor found that it was like,
29:36look, I feel like I'm wasting my time in yours.
29:39And I feel like I'm wasting your financials.
29:42Like, IVF is what you need to consider next.
29:46And we're in Tupelo, Mississippi.
29:48He was gonna send me to Dallas, Texas.
29:52And we were gonna need to live there for a few weeks
29:54and go to the doctor and like,
29:57protocol was there gonna be around $35,000.
30:01And so yeah, when you hear this stuff,
30:03now we do have a clinic closer in Memphis, Tennessee.
30:06I'm not sure why he thought that I needed to go to Dallas.
30:10That is just who he trusted more
30:12and because they did things a certain way.
30:14But that was definitely not the more natural way
30:17of doing anything.
30:18And so just, it didn't take us long to decide.
30:20And we had already kind of talked.
30:22We had adoption on our heart very strongly.
30:24We had kiddos through foster care in our home at the time.
30:28And so Will and I had already pretty much decided,
30:32like if we get to the point of obvious is the last option,
30:35it's not gonna be our option.
30:37I'm not saying that for not to not be anyone's option.
30:40That was just our personal conviction.
30:43And we just said if we have $35,000,
30:46not that we have it sitting around,
30:47but if we were to raise that money,
30:49there may be in our town that need to be adopted first,
30:53you know, before creating more that potentially wouldn't work.
30:57And after so many years of doing all this stuff,
30:59it's like, I don't know if I care to do more of that, you know?
31:03And so, anyway, that is where we got.
31:06And I know not everyone has the same story,
31:10but a few months later,
31:12and this could be getting into a whole nother topic,
31:15but we changed a lot of things about our lifestyle,
31:17the things we even washed our clothes in,
31:20not having candles in our house,
31:21the medicines we were willing and not willing to take,
31:25Things like that and all of a sudden my hormones,
31:27they tested them again and they were better
31:29and then they were better.
31:30And then all of a sudden I got pregnant with Jane
31:33and she is two and a half today.
31:36And so, you know, that is definitely not everyone's story.
31:41And we've still walked through two miscarriages
31:44since Jane's been born.
31:45And then I mentioned on the last show,
31:47my John Marico who passed away last year at 26 weeks.
31:50And so anyway, I know how this feels to be in this place though,
31:57but it is always a place even though it's so hard,
32:00we're still called to honor the Lord first and to know,
32:04and I've been so admired,
32:08Kendra so much for figuring out a God honoring way to do this
32:12because I didn't even realize those things were an option.
32:14We didn't know how much we needed each other.
32:16So we had this heart came on our own,
32:17which is when we leaned on each other through so many things.
32:20Absolutely. We'll get into this some more on the other side of the break. The disrespectful music is grabbing us now
32:25But I want want to invite you Kendra to share your aspect of your account too because when you hear from Ann and Kendra
32:33You're not hearing from someone on a soap bop preaching down to anyone. This is what they have lived and continue to live
32:41But as I said earlier their heart that their show was dedicated to honoring God through the journey
32:46whatever the consequences may be.
32:48And that is what the Body of Christ has to ascribe.
32:52We cannot be circumstantially and comfort driven.
32:56We have to be driven by conviction
32:58to honor the Lord.
32:59Come with me.
33:09Hamilton Quarter Podcast and One-Minute Common Terrets
33:12are available at eFR.net.
33:15Back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
33:19Welcome back to Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III
33:22with Anne Cockrell, Kendra White, co-hosts of Hannah's Heart.
33:26Before we were caught by the disrespect of the music,
33:31Anne, you were sharing a bit of your background,
33:32and I wanna invite Kendra to share a bit of your story,
33:36because I think it's vitally important for people
33:37to understand that as we're having this conversation,
33:40that you two in particular are not those who are speaking
33:43from a lofty soapbox or a perch to condescend on others.
33:47You're talking about what you've lived,
33:49and this is what the Body of Christ is here for,
33:51the scripture commands that we are to build one another up,
33:56let the strong bear the infirmities of the weak.
33:58And in their times when you may be the strong,
34:01when there are times you may be the weak.
34:03And there are many people who may not have even thought
34:07about considering, is there a God honoring way
34:09to approach this issue?
34:11What do I really believe?
34:14There are lots of people for years
34:15who have been advocating for pro-life policy positions,
34:18but then when confronted with the prospect of infertility
34:21or things of that nature may have adopted a position
34:24that is not life affirming in God honoring.
34:27And so that would be a time when the body of Christ
34:30would come alongside and say, hey, have you considered this?
34:34You know, so kinder.
34:35Yes, I'll try to be brief, but nobody who's struggled
34:37with infertility or miscarriage is their story brief.
34:40Like that's the, it's the tediousness of it
34:42that is hard to convey in a quick testimony.
34:44But my story, I longed to be a mama and a wife
34:49and it took forever for that joke or the show up on the scene, Abe.
34:54It was so long.
34:56I wouldn't expect it to be.
34:59So I'll speak to my single ladies out there.
35:02Let me just say, it's worth the wait to do it God's way,
35:05because I would so much rather be single than unhappily married.
35:11And biblically, man, that commitment is forever.
35:15So waiting to find someone that agreed with my life's goals
35:18life's goals and objectives was so huge.
35:20And my husband, Eric Knox, is that,
35:23all that in a bag of chips.
35:25And he's not perfect, but he is...
35:28Eric, I had her say that by the way.
35:29He paid me right before the show.
35:32He is amazing.
35:33And his testimony is fantastic.
35:35And part of his testimony ties into why
35:38we struggle with infertility.
35:40So my husband was 15 years old when he had a car accident.
35:43He had a truck roll over him and was paralyzed
35:46from the waist down.
35:47And so, you know, you're dating someone and nobody,
35:51when you picture, like, what does my future look like?
35:53You don't picture a chair stuck to somebody's booty
35:56for the rest of their life.
35:57It's just not in the typical.
35:58That one of those Disney movies.
35:59It wasn't in the dream world, but I met this man.
36:04And his life had been so radically transformed by Christ.
36:08And what I loved was that he came pre-tested, right?
36:11He had been to the pit and had walked through something hard
36:15and knew that God was enough.
36:17And so I knew, man, if anything comes into our life
36:21and our relationship, he's gonna cling to Christ.
36:23He's not gonna give up if something hard happens.
36:26And anyways, the Lord, as I've perfectly considered,
36:30whether or not we should be married,
36:31the issue of children came up and we wrestled with,
36:33he had some of his own fears of just being a father.
36:36And I was like, look, I don't care how they come,
36:41but Ken White is called to be a mama.
36:44So they can be adopted, but this is in me.
36:48And you don't need to marry me if it's not something
36:51that the Lord has called you to do.
36:52So after much prayer, the Lord began to really work
36:56on his heart to even be open and to see,
36:59I'm really letting go of some of his insecurities and fears
37:02of even being a father in a wheelchair
37:03who could be a parent.
37:05And then the question came, can we have biological children
37:10and we didn't know the answer until we would get married?
37:12So as I said yes to him in a hot air balloon,
37:18I just really, I felt like the Lord said,
37:20can you trust me?
37:22And I'm asking you to trust me.
37:23And he didn't say,
37:24I'm promising you're gonna have biological children.
37:26He just said, trust me.
37:28And so that was very scary.
37:29But as we jumped into this,
37:31I began doing research because typically the women
37:34in the st, the men are like,
37:35the Lord's gonna make it happen.
37:37And the women are like googling every possibility.
37:40And what if I ate an entire pineapple?
37:41that increase our odds, you know?
37:43And so one apple's a big deal in fertility,
37:45we're over time.
37:46I don't know why eating a pineapple cord,
37:47it's not actual factual.
37:49But anyways, that's one of the things we talk about
37:52on the show is having, you know,
37:54it can feel like a part-time job
37:56when you're trying to conceive children.
38:00And so how do we, as women, not let this consume us,
38:03or become something that becomes an idol in our life,
38:07but also finding the balance of being proactive
38:09when you live in a fallen world,
38:10and our bodies are impacted by sin.
38:13So I had to Eric's issue stemmed from his paralysis,
38:17so it was very different than most infertility.
38:20So I really had to do a lot of research, you know?
38:22And we ended up getting accepted
38:25into a grant research program in Miami.
38:28We flew out to Miami, found that there was a possible path
38:33forward for us to have children through a medical procedure
38:36that he would have to have.
38:38We ended up then COVID hit and the program shut down
38:42and all your dreams and everything are on pause
38:44and all right, Lord, what's the plan?
38:46And we waited for a good while and we ended up going back
38:51I think a year and a half later and did
38:53what's called an IUI and found out
38:59when we did the IUI that that was not gonna be
39:03a good path for us, that our chances were less than 1%
39:07and that's with us paying to fly to Miami and have a hotel.
39:10So it's an IUI is an acronym for something.
39:12It is an interuterine insemination.
39:15And so it's not IVF, but it's what they usually,
39:18like we went through four IUI's,
39:20it's what they usually suggest you do before,
39:22before moving on to IVF.
39:24And so we tried to pursue that and found out
39:28that that was not gonna be a good option for us.
39:31And we're told then that IVF was the only route forward.
39:35And that was kind of like a screeching halt for us because I didn't know a whole lot about
39:39IVF, but I had heard about this problem of so many frozen embryos.
39:44And I was like, I just initially have this reaction of like, this doesn't feel right.
39:49So as I started looking into it, just the concerns kept coming up as I looked at just what a typical
39:56IVF protocol is.
39:57Yes.
39:58Would you explain that?
39:59Yeah.
40:00And then build towards non-discord facilities.
40:01Sure.
40:02When IVF was created, it was just a woman,
40:06they went in with her natural cycle,
40:07they were tracking her ovulation,
40:09went in, got one egg, they fertilized it,
40:12they put it in and it implanted in her uterus
40:15and became a child.
40:17This is in 1978.
40:18Yes, a little while ago.
40:20So what happened was they found later,
40:23the whole process of going and collecting the egg
40:26requires a lot and not every egg is suitable for IVF.
40:31for IVF and that's just again, part of us living in a fallen world and our genes being
40:35affected by toxins.
40:36So they might go and get that egg and it's not mature or it's not even useful.
40:43So they said, well, what if we increased our chances a little bit and they started giving
40:48women some hormones to be able to stimulate their ovaries and the follicles to produce
40:53more eggs.
40:54So then they realized, well, wow, why not just two or three or four?
40:59try to make our average 15 and we have more genetic material to work with and so
41:04this is where the ethical problems come in so then they started finding
41:09something called genetic testing so let's say a woman goes in and she gets 15 eggs
41:14let's say 12 of them fertilize that is a human life that's been created that is
41:19an embryo now not all of those will continue to develop and be able to be
41:23implanted but they said well let's try to get the ones that are the best the
41:27strongest and how do we select those?
41:30How not to you.
41:31How are you?
41:32Exactly.
41:33Very true.
41:34Well, it's gotten out of hand.
41:35We're the genetic testing now allows them to be able to determine hair color and eye color.
41:40Boy, girl.
41:41And say, I don't want a boy.
41:43So we're only going to go for a girl this time.
41:45So go ahead and discard those.
41:46But Harris Hilton was recently in the news because she has I think like 24 frozen embryos
41:51because she wanted a girl and then something with the eye color.
41:56She was very specific on what she wanted,
41:58and the other ones just didn't, you know.
42:00You can talk about playing God at that point.
42:02Yeah, and it is...
42:04And to be clear, God is the one,
42:07no matter how conception occurs,
42:09that spark that happens when life is created,
42:12only God can create that.
42:13No scientists, first of all,
42:14they're working with material that God provided.
42:17Secondly, just because they try to fertilize,
42:20it doesn't mean that it will,
42:21they have to watch,
42:22and they call you back with your results.
42:24So God is in control of that.
42:25but their controlling is killing life.
42:28They're being selected by reducing life.
42:31And let me just for a moment,
42:32because this is funny, yesterday I was talking
42:38on the program about a book my wife and I are reading together
42:41is CS Lewis Miracles.
42:44Okay.
42:45And when you think about miracles,
42:47people automatically go to what may be viewed as dramatic,
42:51but I guess, but one of the things that has occurred
42:58that is a demonic reality is that we as a society
43:03have been cultivated to ignore miracles that are routine.
43:09The routine nature of God's divinity at work
43:14should not lessen our perception of it being divine action.
43:20The reality of an egg being fertilized by sperm
43:25is not an automatic phenomenon.
43:27Whether you are biologically endeavoring to reproduce,
43:31whether you are using assistance to do so,
43:34it is not an automatic and no man can control
43:37whether or not an egg is fertilized.
43:40That is the divine finger involved in man's affairs.
43:46And so to call when we say every child is a miracle,
43:49no, it really, he or she literally is,
43:53without God's divine intervention, they would not be.
43:56And so we really need to understand that as we approach life in general, but particular
44:01this particular aspect of a conversation that we're having.
44:03And to add on to that, no matter how a child is conceived, they are created in the image
44:07of God.
44:08Amen.
44:09Full stop.
44:10And I think when we're talking about IVF, we need to keep in mind that others who may choose
44:13to create life in a way that is not life affirming as an oxymoron as that sound.
44:19The child that still comes from that union is still created in the image of God.
44:22Even though there are some methods that we don't agree with as believers.
44:25I don't believe in using donor sperm or donor eggs.
44:29I don't believe in most situations surrogacy.
44:33But if a child comes from that union,
44:35they are still precious and in his sight.
44:37But one of the other problems with the typical protocol,
44:40often they will, depending on your age,
44:43they're like, we need you to get pregnant soon
44:44because the time is ticking.
44:46So we're gonna put three or four or five frozen embryos
44:51into your uterus and knowing that not all of them
44:53and plant, but the problem is what happens if they do.
44:57If you have five that implant, that is an extremely dangerous procedure.
45:01A lot of us might remember the Octomom and the news way back in the day and some of those
45:07very dangerous pregnancies, those were the result of this kind of protocol of IVF.
45:11So they say, and for the babies.
45:13Yes, for the babies as well.
45:14So they created something called selective reduction.
45:18What are they reducing?
45:20How not-seous.
45:21Right.
45:22What are you reducing?
45:23Yeah.
45:24You've created people to kill them.
45:26You've created people to kill them, yeah.
45:28So you're going in and you're saying, okay,
45:30we're just gonna take out three of these.
45:32We're gonna leave you with twins
45:33and see how they grow.
45:34So those are some of the big picture issues
45:37that my husband and I had with IVF.
45:39We also had some concerns just about even the process
45:42of freezing eggs is that safe for the baby,
45:46is it responsible with life?
45:48And so for us, IVF was a no-go.
45:51And then I think they're Hannah's heart.
45:54We're always doing research of different things and topics to talk about on the show, and I
45:59ran across a podcast and someone referred to mini IVF, which stands for minimal stimulation
46:05IVF.
46:06I never heard of this.
46:07This is really going back to the roots of how IVF was created, that natural cycle following
46:12a, not stimulating 15 to 40 eggs, but a handful.
46:17You can do something called natural cycle, which is no stimulation at all.
46:22As we started looking into many stimulation, basically the doctors can work with you to
46:26try to create the number of frozen embryos that you feel comfortable transferring.
46:30So we are our goal.
46:33What is transfer?
46:34So what they do is they would collect the egg, they would harvest the egg, they would fertilize
46:38it, and then three days, either three or five days later is the optimal window for when
46:45they can put that back into the woman's uterus and hope that it will implant and stay.
46:50So, yes, so in my husband and I situation, you know, we were comfortable with twins.
46:57So we said, you know, if we end up having two frozen embryos, we're okay with that.
47:01So we maybe tried to collect three or four eggs knowing that not all of them would be viable to use for IVF.
47:07And two of them were, and you know, the first time that we ended up trying this, we had two beautiful embryos.
47:13We got a picture of them, transferred them, they implanted and then stopped growing.
47:17We had something called a chemical pregnancy devastating.
47:21We felt led to try one more time, and that's when we got our beautiful daughter Eliana.
47:27We again had the same procedure happen.
47:29We had two embryos, one of them implanted and was our daughter, and we lost the other.
47:33So we have those precious other little babies in heaven, but we felt that this for us was
47:39a responsible way to handle life.
47:43And we ended up doing a clinic that was called a non-discard facility.
47:46You mentioned that, meaning that they will only do IVF in a way that babies, frozen embryos,
47:52are never destroyed or discarded.
47:55And they really work with the couples to ask you the hard questions ahead of time.
47:58And this is what happens with other couples.
48:00They don't ask the hard questions.
48:01They wait till they have the problem, and then they're left with not very good solutions.
48:06So they ask, how many children do you want?
48:08Are you okay putting your embryos up for adoption?
48:11because a lot of people think they would be,
48:13but then they have a child and they see that it looks like them
48:15and all of a sudden, I can't.
48:17And then you're...
48:19The embryo is just spreading.
48:20Stay frozen until they can't pay for storage.
48:23Yeah, and then they just try to...
48:25I'm gonna have to stop right there.
48:27Sorry.
48:28Y'all can't hear it, but I can.
48:29The clock's ticking.
48:31The clock's ticking and the music is...
48:33Rolling.
48:34It's rolling.
48:35And in Kinger, thank you guys for being here.
48:37Help us to navigate this issue.
48:39What an important one it is.
48:45The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American
48:50Family Association or American Family Radio.

Transcript indexed for search. Open the panel to read along.

Share this episode

Related Episodes

Jun 23, 2026

Israel & Foreign Affairs
Bible & Theology

Four Christian baseball players stood firm and Major League Baseball backed down.

0:00 - 15:00. Matthew 5:4-12. Meekness is strength under control. Controlled strength is directable strength. 15:00 - 31:00. Four Christian baseball players stood firm and Major League Baseball backed…

Listen

Jan 14, 2025

Politics & Policy
Bible & Theology

And the award goes to… Americans lose when Congress is filled with thespians.

0:00 - 15:00. Nehemiah 6:15-16. There’s a reason for the hostility. 15:00 - 31:00. And the award goes to… Americans lose when Congress is filled with thespians. 31:00 - 48:00. Looters have hit the str…

Listen

May 7, 2026

Constitutional Law
Bible & Theology

There has been much MAGA conversation, but not as much discussion about what originally made America great.

0:00 - 15:00. Psalm 20:5-8. We, the U.S.A., should know better than anyone that boasting in chariots and horsemen is a fool’s errand. 15:00 - 31:00. There has been much MAGA conversation, but not as m…

Listen

Subscribe and never miss an episode.

Pick Your Platform All Episodes

Call (888) 589-8840 Book Abe