Dr. George Barna returns to “The Corner” to provide his post-election insights and analysis.

Transcribed with OpenAI Whisper (base.en). Timestamps are approximate. Lightly cleaned for readability; quotations from on-air callers may include filler words. Use the audio player above for the authoritative recording.

1. 0:00Darkness is not an affirmative force.
2. 0:03It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
3. 0:07This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
4. 0:11It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite.
5. 0:15Delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media.
6. 0:18And the philosophies of this world.
7. 0:20God has called you and me to be his ambassador.
8. 0:24Even in this dark moment.
9. 0:26Let's not miss our moment.
10. 0:28And now the Hamilton Corner.
11. 0:33Good evening, everyone.
12. 0:35Welcome to the Hamilton Corner here on American Family Radio.
13. 0:38I am your host, Abraham Hamilton, third joined by the corner contingent right across from
14. 0:43me, my man, a hundred grand, Mr. Bobby, Rosa is in this building in this new iteration of
15. 0:52the age of the United States of America.
16. 0:54We are also joined by produce extraordinary, often imitated, but never duplicated.
17. 1:00The real J. Mac is in the screening room and we are ready to rock and roll with today's
18. 1:04edition of the program.
19. 1:06I'm very excited about today's program.
20. 1:10I hope you stick around for the entire team of the show, which I know you guys do all the
21. 1:14time at this very moment.
22. 1:16Many of you, if not most of you are making your transition from your part time jobs where
23. 1:20you generate an income to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome.
24. 1:24As you do so, I want to remind you to do so with intentionality in full view of the primacy
25. 1:33that God places on the family.
26. 1:36The first human institution that God established before you get to modern iterations of civil
27. 1:40government, before you get to the New Testament at Chosia, before you get to any of those other
28. 1:46human institutions, the Lord begins with family, with marriage at the center.
29. 1:51did that intentionally because of the significance of family to his plan. This is why I say, and I
30. 1:59will continue to say what goes on in your house is far more important than what goes on in the White
31. 2:06House. I do not say that to denigrate or to minimize the significance of what transpires in the White
32. 2:12House. Those things are important, but they are not penultimately important. They do they should not have
33. 2:19the highest primacy estimation in our hearts and in our minds.
34. 2:26Additionally, I don't say what I say to you about family
35. 2:30to ignore the fact that God knows we're all at various stages
36. 2:34of life and various stages of relationship.
37. 2:36God knows that, but we nevertheless should all,
38. 2:40all of us should recognize the significance of family.
39. 2:44And we all should recognize that what God requires of us
40. 2:47in terms of external fruitfulness and faithfulness,
41. 2:50he desires those things to be the overflow
42. 2:53of what we enjoy with him personally.
43. 2:57So as you're making your move to your full-time job
44. 2:59to cultivate an outcome, I want to encourage you
45. 3:03to welcome the Lord to transform you,
46. 3:05just as I am doing myself personally.
47. 3:09And that as we are transformed as the scripture bears out,
48. 3:13growing from glory to glory, we are agents
49. 3:17of the very same transformation that we enjoy.
50. 3:20That is God's desire for us,
51. 3:22that we are exporters of what we have imported.
52. 3:28How many more word pictures do you want me to paint for you
53. 3:31on this point?
54. 3:32Cause we can do this all day.
55. 3:36Well, I am grateful, grateful, grateful to be alive now,
56. 3:39not solely because of what happened in the election.
57. 3:43If you've been listening to the show for any length of time,
58. 3:44you know, I've been saying that for quite some time,
59. 3:46that my excitement stems from the fact that this is the time,
60. 3:51this is the moment that God has appointed for me.
61. 3:54The scripture tells us that God determined before time
62. 3:58the boundaries of our habitation.
63. 4:00The fact that you are where you are, you live where you live,
64. 4:03this is not merely a coincidence of life circumstance,
65. 4:06this is a feature of God's divine providence.
66. 4:09And not only that, the times in which we are living,
67. 4:13It is God's divine providence that has afforded me to be an American citizen in the 21st century.
68. 4:20And this is the station, the context that God has deposited me with, within to be as ambassador.
69. 4:26And so this is our opportunity to take the baton of faithfulness from our ancestors in the faith.
70. 4:32And that we discharge in our generation, what we look into our family's history as a
71. 4:39recorded for us in scripture and see how our Lord has glorified himself through our ancestors
72. 4:45in the faith and welcome him to do the same in us and through us in our generation in our
73. 4:50time period.
74. 4:52God has bestowed his mercy upon our nation, given us grace and space and he expects us to
75. 4:59respond appropriately.
76. 5:01With that, let us go to the Word of God, to the Book of James.
77. 5:04of James chapter 1 verses 21 through 27 is where I'm going to go. That will take us through the end
78. 5:12of the book. We know through Christian historical sources, Eusebius' histories and even really some
79. 5:22of the Josephus' Jewish historian Josephus' antiquities of the Jews that James, the biological half-brother of
80. 5:33Jesus, the son of Joseph and Mary, he had the nickname, Camones, because he prayed so much.
81. 5:44He prayed so much, the skin on his knees changed, specifically he would be on his knees praying.
82. 5:50And we have even historical accounts that when James was ultimately martyred, he was martyred
83. 5:55on his knees, praying for the very people who were lashing out against him similar to what
84. 6:02happened with Stephen and recorded in the book of Acts. When we peer into the book of James,
85. 6:08we're looking into one of the oldest New Testament texts as James' epistle was penned
86. 6:14even before the Jerusalem Council. It's dated about the mid, early to mid 40s AD, and so much
87. 6:22is available to us there. But in James' epistle, we have this sage wisdom that the Spirit of
88. 6:27God has provided for us through the Apostle James. And I'll start at verse 21.
89. 6:31Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness and humility
90. 6:40received the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.
91. 6:46But prove yourselves doers of the word and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
92. 6:54Or if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his
93. 6:59natural face in a mirror.
94. 7:02But once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind
95. 7:07of person he was.
96. 7:11But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having
97. 7:22become a forgetful hearer, but an effectual doer.
98. 7:28This man will be blessed in what he does.
99. 7:31If anyone thinks himself to be religious and yet does not bridle his tongue, but deceives
100. 7:37his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.
101. 7:41Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this, to visit orphans
102. 7:47and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
103. 7:53Man, the word of God is hmm.
104. 7:57is so profound.
105. 7:59So James and this first chapter of his epistle,
106. 8:02I will remind you in the original Greek manuscripts,
107. 8:05there are no chapter in verse demarcations.
108. 8:08Epistle is a fancy word that means letter.
109. 8:10And as with any letter,
110. 8:12I'd encourage you to read the entire letter in one sitting.
111. 8:15And this would apply to all the epistles,
112. 8:17the best way to navigate the word of God,
113. 8:19the only way frankly,
114. 8:20to navigate the word of God is to make sure
115. 8:22that we navigate the text within its context.
116. 8:24I always refer to my brother from my local church,
117. 8:26but the stones reference.
118. 8:27When you take the text out of its context,
119. 8:29you're left with a calm.
120. 8:31And that is absolutely true.
121. 8:33But here as James is coming to the latter part
122. 8:36of what's recorded in our Bible says the first chapter,
123. 8:39he says, therefore putting aside all filthiness
124. 8:42and all that remains of wickedness.
125. 8:44This is responding, or should I say corresponding
126. 8:47to the sanctification journey,
127. 8:49the people who James has in view
128. 8:51are Christ followers among the Jewish diaspora
129. 8:53in the first century.
130. 8:55And so he's not talking to people who are unsaved.
131. 8:57He's talking to people who are professing believers in Christ and saying to the believer,
132. 9:03put aside filthiness in all that remains of wickedness, the lingering wickedness, the remnants
133. 9:11of wickedness that there is not a place for the believer to ever become comfortable with
134. 9:16prevalent abiding habitual sin.
135. 9:20This is what James is pointing to and saying the evidence of that agreement with God in the
136. 9:27sanctification process is how we receive his word with humility.
137. 9:32Then he goes on to say within the same context that the believer is to be doers of the word.
138. 9:39Believers are to be doers of the word, not merely hearers of the word.
139. 9:44much of what has befallen our nation to date is people who have professed Christ following
140. 9:53may even have an intellectual ascent to Christ following while simultaneously maintaining a
141. 9:59failure to put into practice. What is verbalize? You've heard those who followed the show for a long
142. 10:03for a while. You know, I describe this as the speech and feat phenomenon. What we say, what we
143. 10:09We believe should match how we live.
144. 10:12There shouldn't be this diversion
145. 10:14between what we say and what we profess to believe
146. 10:17and how we live.
147. 10:20He goes on, for if anyone is a hero of the word
148. 10:22and not a doer, it's like a person who forgets his very own
149. 10:27image in the mirror.
150. 10:29And James, you want to talk about walking heavy?
151. 10:33He goes further than it says, anyone,
152. 10:36just as an application of what he just taught anyone
153. 10:39who thinks himself to be religious,
154. 10:41Yet he can't even control his own tongue.
155. 10:44That man's religion is worthless.
156. 10:47It's worthless.
157. 10:49How can we profess to be regenerated by the Spirit of God
158. 10:53indwelled by his Spirit?
159. 10:55Yet we do not mature to the place
160. 10:58to where we can even control our own tongues.
161. 11:02And I love the image of a bridle, like a horse bridle.
162. 11:04It is the bridle that Jockeys used to determine
163. 11:07the direction that horses may travel.
164. 11:10James is saying that the tongue is the indication of the direction of your heart and your heart's
165. 11:15inclination.
166. 11:17And it is within this context, this context of this discourse that James comes on to say,
167. 11:23pure religion and undefiled religion is this, in the sight of our God and Father to visit
168. 11:31orphans and widows.
169. 11:32Now, this is not meant to be an exhaustive list of what pure religion is and what it looks
170. 11:37like, but it's meant to indicate pure religion includes having such a selfless orientation that
171. 11:44among the things that are chief in our hearts are the concern and even using our material
172. 11:50provision for others.
173. 11:54Concern first and even using what we have available to us to aid others.
174. 12:00And it's amazing to me and this is how you can easily spot people who try to manipulate the
175. 12:04Word of God for their own purposes.
176. 12:06Oftentimes regressives trying to weaponize Word of God for their own purposes because
177. 12:09they'll talk about pure religion pure and under-fought religion is to visit
178. 12:11widows and orphans and they'll stop right there they'll stop right there but
179. 12:16that's not the whole verse yes pure and under-fought religion in the side of our
180. 12:20God and fathers is this to visit widows orphans and widows in their distress
181. 12:24but look at the remainder of the verse and to keep oneself unstained by the
182. 12:31world to keep oneself unstained by the world refusing to be
183. 12:39be subsumed into the prevalent worldliness that surrounds us is included in what God describes
184. 12:46through his apostle as pure and under-filed religion, refusing to be syncretized into the
185. 12:53prevalent notions of the world around us.
186. 12:56This guys is why I've been saying, when God has bestowed upon us mercy, but his mercy
187. 13:03is not to be misconstrued for us, similar to King Uzzai we talked about yesterday.
188. 13:10understanding God's bestowing of mercy upon us and we get it twisted and we start
189. 13:14launching on into all kinds of things that are
190. 13:18valuable to God is required of us. As I said yesterday, a booming economy doesn't
191. 13:23make a nation great. I am grateful to God for our bill of rights but the bill of
192. 13:27rights doesn't make a nation great. The scripture is clear that righteousness
193. 13:32exultination and so when we consider the entire scope of what James is talking
194. 13:37about here, he is talking to the believer by the Spirit of God, encouraging the believer
195. 13:43to refuse to yield to the ways of the world, the flesh and the devil as we are endeavoring
196. 13:49to embrace sanctification, but putting away all filthiness.
197. 13:54There's no level of filthiness that we should be comfortable with.
198. 13:57We should be mortified by the prevalence of pornography usage amongst Christians.
199. 14:01Mortified.
200. 14:03one among a host of things, putting aside whatever remains lingering remnants of wickedness
201. 14:09as we aspire toward holiness, because God calls us to holiness in not merely for personal
202. 14:15consumption, but for our engagement as salt and light, as ambassadors of his kingdom, executors
203. 14:21of his commission, that we are not merely to be heroes of his word or readers of his word,
204. 14:25but we are to be doers to put it into practice.
205. 14:29As we are putting his word into practice, one of the touchstones we should be mindful
206. 14:33of mindful of is how we use our tongues.
207. 14:36And the usage of our tongues should be indicative
208. 14:39of the purity of our hearts, that manifest in
209. 14:41and our vertical orientation to our King,
210. 14:43as well as our hearts, our engagement with brothers
211. 14:45and sisters in Christ's first and foremost,
212. 14:47and to the world around us.
213. 14:49And then as we are, our advocates and embraces a pure religion,
214. 14:52it includes us remaining unstained by the world.
215. 15:04Shiting light into the darkness,
216. 15:07this is the Hamilton Quarter, an American family radio.
217. 15:11Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton,
218. 15:13the third here.
219. 15:14I am honored to have on the program with me right now
220. 15:17a man who I regard as a giant in the faith.
221. 15:20I am just overwhelmed at his willingness
222. 15:22to come back onto the program.
223. 15:23He told me just during the break, I lost my mind.
224. 15:25But I haven't lost my mind at all.
225. 15:27I am talking about a professor at Arizona Christian University
226. 15:31and director of research and cultural research center
227. 15:35at Arizona Christian University, which focuses on worldview
228. 15:39and development and cultural transformation.
229. 15:42He's also the senior research fellow
230. 15:43at Family Research Council's Center for Biblical World View.
231. 15:46He's also a man whose research I have relied upon
232. 15:50in my public ministry as well as in training
233. 15:52and discipling my own family.
234. 15:54I'm speaking of none other than brethren Christ,
235. 15:57giant in the faith, well regarded research
236. 16:01and other than Dr. George Barna.
237. 16:04Thank you for coming back on to the program, Dr. Barna.
238. 16:07and thank you for having me.
239. 16:10You know, you say all those things.
240. 16:11I'm looking around like, who, who is he talking about?
241. 16:14I'm talking about you.
242. 16:17Yes, I am talking about you.
243. 16:19And I know you wouldn't say those things about yourself,
244. 16:22but these things are true.
245. 16:24And I really truly value you.
246. 16:27I'm grateful for you coming on to the program.
247. 16:29And I just appreciate everything that God has done through you
248. 16:34and you and your lovely wife.
249. 16:36and I just appreciate your willingness to run through the tape
250. 16:41to be on the front lines all the way through.
251. 16:46Oh, it's a long race and you gotta be committed to it
252. 16:49and you gotta realize that on our own power,
253. 16:54we are incapable of winning that race.
254. 16:58And so, God appropriate the power of the Holy Spirit
255. 17:01through Jesus Christ and that's all we got going for us.
256. 17:05But man am I glad we have that going for us.
257. 17:07Amen, amen, amen.
258. 17:09So I wanna begin this conversation
259. 17:10and I know you have some forthcoming research,
260. 17:13some data on this that you initiated three days
261. 17:16following the election and I know that is forthcoming
262. 17:18and I wanna invite you to preview some of that information.
263. 17:21But what are your thoughts and insights
264. 17:24and what assessment you have following
265. 17:27what we just witnessed transpire last week?
266. 17:29And if you count California,
267. 17:31you're kinda still being counted right now
268. 17:33in terms of the 2024 election.
269. 17:37Yeah, Abe, there's so many things that go through my mind related to the election.
270. 17:42One of those is that frankly, Mr. Trump would not have won the election without the support of Christians.
271. 17:50And as I look at all of the news reports and commentaries and analysts out there in the mainstream media certainly,
272. 18:00and in places where people often go for information,
273. 18:05Christians aren't even part of a conversation
274. 18:08in terms of what they did at the polls on Tuesday,
275. 18:12last Tuesday.
276. 18:13So, I think it's important to give Christians their due,
277. 18:18at least they recognized there was a significant difference
278. 18:22between Mr. Trump and Mrs. Harris, so that's good.
279. 18:25And I feel like I need to say that
280. 18:27because based on all the research I'm constantly doing,
281. 18:32I don't find much difference between Christians
282. 18:35and non-Christians in most dimensions of our lives.
283. 18:39So when I see something like this where, well,
284. 18:42you know, we kind of get that one right, I think,
285. 18:45I hope I pray, then that's a good thing
286. 18:48and I want to bring it up.
287. 18:49So what we had was a lower turnout
288. 18:54in this year's election,
289. 18:56In the 2020 election, national turnout among voting age population, I think it was about
290. 19:0362% in this election voting age population turnout was about 55%.
291. 19:10So that's a pretty significant drop in the numbers.
292. 19:14And then when we look at who was actually showing up to vote, if you look at people who called
293. 19:21themselves Christians, the number was only slightly higher, I think it was about 56%
294. 19:28turnout, so not hugely higher. But there were some very significant subgroups of the population
295. 19:35that did turn out. We could look at theologically defined born-again Christians, 58%. Again, not
296. 19:42hugely higher, but three points higher makes the difference. And by the way, you'll keep hearing
297. 19:48me talk about theologically defined born-again Christians or theologically defined evangelicals
298. 19:55because when you look at the exit polls and every other poll that's done in the country pretty much
299. 19:59related to the election, they determine whether or not a person is born again or evangelical and
300. 20:05they conflate those terms which is also ludicrous but they determine that simply by asking people
301. 20:12do you think that you're born again or that you're an evangelical and the research that I've done
302. 20:17shows that most, literally most of the people who categorize themselves as born again or even
303. 20:24jellical don't meet theologically defined criteria to get into that category. So that's why I keep
304. 20:33qualifying it that way. But anyway, so we find that, yes, the people who were aligned with the
305. 20:39Christian faith, the ones that had much higher turnout rates, for instance, were people with
306. 20:46with a biblical worldview, Sage-Cons,
307. 20:50the group that spiritually active governance
308. 20:53engage conservative Christians,
309. 20:57theologically identified evangelicals,
310. 21:00people who attend charismatic or Pentecostal churches.
311. 21:04These were some of the groups that showed up
312. 21:06in significantly greater numbers
313. 21:08than the rest of the Christian population,
314. 21:11which showed up in slightly higher numbers
315. 21:14than the population at large.
316. 21:16that people who Mrs. Harris was relying upon people
317. 21:21of non-Christian faiths and people of no religious faith
318. 21:25had below average turnout rates.
319. 21:29And that helps to describe why she lost the race.
320. 21:34And if you're not careful, Abe,
321. 21:36I'll just keep talking and talking and talking.
322. 21:38So you've got to feel free to bust it on me.
323. 21:40Yeah, no, I think your qualification
324. 21:42for theologically defined evangelicals is an important and necessary distinction because
325. 21:49I think, I don't think, I know that qualification would completely transform the way that most
326. 21:55popular assessments are done in that regard. And I also think it's significant for a host
327. 22:01of reasons that you have Christians who voted in such significant numbers that are not necessarily
328. 22:10being discussed in popular media, but you also have the glaringly obvious reality that
329. 22:16the Republican Party as a party and President Trump as a candidate made some significant movements,
330. 22:22particularly on sexual ethical issues, sexuality, as well as on the life issue, especially when
331. 22:30you can sit at a 10 state that had measures on the ballot to amend their state constitutions
332. 22:36to allow the unfettered slaughter of innocent children that are not yet born.
333. 22:41So that is significant.
334. 22:43Do you see anything that should set off alarm bells when you have that significant contribution
335. 22:50of Christians to support President Trump?
336. 22:54That's not being mentioned in popular media, but also with these movements with the Republican
337. 22:58Party and President Trump as a candidate.
338. 23:01Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
339. 23:04votes for Donald Trump, about 78% of it came from Christians. So you take that out of the
340. 23:11equation, he doesn't have much to work with. And so I think that gives us the opportunity
341. 23:19to have discussions with him and his cabinet members and his key leaders to talk about what's
342. 23:27important to us, why we put him into office. We didn't put him in there because he has a
343. 23:31nicer smile than Mrs. Harris or, you know, because he reminds us of our old and grandfather.
344. 23:37I mean, we put him in there to protect our freedoms, protect democracy, but also to bring
345. 23:45the country back to God. And our discernment was that he can do that better than Mrs. Harris would.
346. 23:52I mean, she was inviting people who love God to leave her alley. So clearly, she wasn't going to be
347. 23:59on our side when it comes to moral and spiritual matters. Mr. Trump, I think, made
348. 24:06some bad moves in terms of the party platform. And yet when we looked at our
349. 24:11options, I understand where a lot of Christians were coming from. They weren't
350. 24:14excited about voting for them. But, you know, we had to keep reminding
351. 24:18ourselves, but we're not voting for a pastor. We're not voting for a role model
352. 24:24for our grandchildren or our children.
353. 24:27We're voting for somebody who's gonna fight for policies
354. 24:30that we believe are the right policies.
355. 24:32And they're clearly, or some of those areas
356. 24:34where we're gonna have to be pretty aggressive
357. 24:39in terms of letting him and especially the Republican party
358. 24:42now, okay, we came in on this one.
359. 24:46But if you take a step back from the things
360. 24:50that are important to us, don't count on us
361. 24:52being there next time, maybe we will, maybe we won't.
362. 24:55But we're not a given.
363. 24:57Don't take us for granted,
364. 24:59because we're not quite sure yet
365. 25:01where this ship is headed.
366. 25:03Now, how would that get this question,
367. 25:05there's gonna be a twofold question.
368. 25:06The first component of it is how do you think
369. 25:12the body of Christ and our nation
370. 25:14could best accomplish what you just described?
371. 25:16And then where do you see the impetus, the fortitude,
372. 25:20resolve to do that when we take into consideration other things that you reported on, like the
373. 25:24dearth of biblical worldview fidelity amongst profession Christians in our nation.
374. 25:30It is there a significant concern that there could be a misunderstanding of this moment where
375. 25:36we don't take advantage of the opportunity to kind of lean on the Trump administration.
376. 25:40And I would say a subsequent administration's considering that he's only going to be a one-term
377. 25:45president.
378. 25:46And really, he has two years to get it going.
379. 25:48is after year two, election season ramps up again,
380. 25:51especially for the US Senate.
381. 25:52So how best can Christians do what you just suggested?
382. 25:54And then, are there concerns that you may have
383. 25:57that whether or not we have the wherewithal
384. 25:59and resolve to do that in light of the dearth
385. 26:01of the prevalence of a thoroughly Biblical worldview
386. 26:03amongst professing Christians?
387. 26:06Yeah, and if you'll allow me,
388. 26:07I'd actually like to flip the order of those questions.
389. 26:09Yes, please, absolutely.
390. 26:11As I answer them.
391. 26:12And the reason for that is, yes, I have huge concerns
392. 26:16about whether or not we're gonna step up
393. 26:18of the table and say, okay, I put you there.
394. 26:21You serve me.
395. 26:23We elected you to take care of us.
396. 26:25Here's what we need.
397. 26:26Here's what we want.
398. 26:27Here's what's right.
399. 26:29And the reason I have concerns about us not stepping up
400. 26:33is because the research I've been doing for 40 plus years,
401. 26:37including the most recent research
402. 26:39where we're looking at various things that came out like
403. 26:42Christians devoted Christians,
404. 26:45even Jellical Christians, Biblical world view Christians
405. 26:48whatever type you want to look at, we look at them all.
406. 26:51But when we look at those groups, what we found is that they were among the least likely
407. 26:58people in America to be discussing the election with people who they had reason to believe
408. 27:05had different perspectives than they held.
409. 27:09We didn't want to get in those conversations.
410. 27:11And when we asked why, what we heard was, well, because I'm not sure that I can hold
411. 27:17my own in argument. Okay, so that tells me we're not doing our homework. And by the way,
412. 27:23in this post-election research, we asked people how much time they spent preparing for voting,
413. 27:29checking out the candidates, looking at the issues, taking a deep dive on the initiatives
414. 27:35and the referendum that were on the balance. And what we found is that on average, people
415. 27:39we're spending about two hours, not two hours a day,
416. 27:46two hours over the course of the election season,
417. 27:50preparing to vote.
418. 27:52That's embarrassing.
419. 27:54I mean, that's like going in for the, you know,
420. 27:57the law boards, you know, or, you know, the bar exam
421. 28:02and not studying, not going to class, not studying,
422. 28:06not being mentored, just waltzing in and saying,
423. 28:09I'm ready, I got a pen. And that's not going to cut. I'm concerned because not only aren't we
424. 28:16having conversations. I mean, there were a number of things that we looked at where we found enthusiasm
425. 28:23for the election was low. Investment, personal investment in the election was low. And honestly,
426. 28:32Abe, I mean, you and I know that this isn't as good as it gets in politics. It's like when you
427. 28:38have the campaign when you have the election, there's spending money like crazy, there's
428. 28:43advertising, there's events, there's celebrities, everything is going on. That's as high energy
429. 28:49as it's going to get. And now we're in the low energy period where the ball shifts from
430. 28:56the candidates to us. And what we're saying, yeah, I think I'll put them all away. We can't
431. 29:02do that. So what can we do? You know, the second part of your question, your second question.
432. 29:07And there are a lot of things we can do. Number one is, it seemed to me that there was a bit more
433. 29:15prayer taking place just before the election. Christians voted more than other people did,
434. 29:22partly I think as we were scared of what might happen. And so there was, as far as we can tell,
435. 29:29a slightly higher level of prayer going on.
436. 29:33We've got to maintain that.
437. 29:34In fact, we've got to ramp that up simply
438. 29:37because the election is over, doesn't he?
439. 29:38Oh, good, glad that's over.
440. 29:40I don't have to talk to God about the direction of the country,
441. 29:43the tender of our governance now.
442. 29:45That's all over it.
443. 29:46No, no, no, no.
444. 29:48This is like a beginning point that we got to ramp it up.
445. 29:51Secondly, we've got to get personally involved.
446. 29:54Put our time or energy or money or relationships,
447. 29:58whatever we have into transforming the country.
448. 30:03And really, this is not about politics.
449. 30:07Yes, we elected a president, we elected a Senate,
450. 30:09we elected the House.
451. 30:11But really what this is about,
452. 30:12for those of us who are Christians who are voted,
453. 30:15is giving us an opportunity to dig deeper
454. 30:19and get more intense in terms of the transformation
455. 30:22of the country, bringing people's hearts, minds,
456. 30:24and souls back to Jesus,
457. 30:26bringing them back to the truths and the principles of scripture
458. 30:31and simply having government as one of the ways
459. 30:34that those principles are made real to people where we take them.
460. 30:38And yes, maybe we convert them into laws and policies.
461. 30:41That's great.
462. 30:42Maybe they become the fodder for conversations and speeches
463. 30:47and testimony in Congress.
464. 30:49All of those things, great.
465. 30:50But it's really not about government.
466. 30:53It's really about faith.
467. 30:55It's really about spirituality.
468. 30:58It's really about our relationship with God,
469. 31:02how much we trust the Bible to tell us the truth,
470. 31:05how much we're willing to take that truth
471. 31:07and convert it into a lifestyle,
472. 31:09how much we're willing to use that lifestyle
473. 31:12as a wedge or an entry point
474. 31:14into the lives of other people to have conversations,
475. 31:17to encourage them to follow Christ,
476. 31:20to encourage them to repent for their sins,
477. 31:23just like we have to.
478. 31:24We all have these kinds of things.
479. 31:25So politics is an opportunity for us to be cultural evangelists.
480. 31:31Well said.
481. 31:32And I think it's important that we take that opportunity.
482. 31:34Absolutely right.
483. 31:35You're listening to the Hamilton Corner
484. 31:37or watching the Hamilton Corner,
485. 31:38my guess is Dr. George Barna.
486. 31:40We're having a conversation about his insights
487. 31:42and even there's gonna be some data produced
488. 31:45by Dr. Barna concerning what he found following this election.
489. 31:49But we wanna have the continued dialogue
490. 31:51as to what do we do now?
491. 31:52Because the vision cannot merely be for election day.
492. 32:04Hamilton Quarter podcast and one-minute common terrors are available at aFR.net
493. 32:09back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio. Welcome back Abraham
494. 32:15Hamilton the third here at his clock is disrespectful. Welcome to the Hamilton
495. 32:20Corner. I'm joined by Dr. George Barnard. We're having a conversation really about
496. 32:24the significance of the church's role in this last election but also what do we
497. 32:31do going forward. Dr. Barna, you mentioned one of the things that motivated Christian to turn
498. 32:35out a record number. I mean, when you consider that 78% of the votes cast for President Trump,
499. 32:40were cast by Christians, as you said. That is pretty significant. Yet you don't hear anything
500. 32:46discussed about Christians and Christians participation and influencing this election
501. 32:50on a popular media outlets. And you said among the things that motivated Christians,
502. 32:54votes was frankly probably a lot of Christians looking at the landscape of the world,
503. 32:58you know, the transgender insanity concerning children, the educational insanity, the fiscal
504. 33:04insanity, and a lot of those things cause Christians to be kind of afraid of what was
505. 33:10to come.
506. 33:11Should Kamala Harris actually become the 47th president of the United States?
507. 33:15So I want to ask you, in light of the research you've been doing for over 40 years, what has
508. 33:25has been happening in our country to Christians and with Christians and in Christians that
509. 33:29allow things to get to the place where there can be motivation based in such a fear as to
510. 33:34what could happen with a Harris administration?
511. 33:37Well, there's a really long answer to that, which I know you don't want me to give because
512. 33:43we go off the air and I'd still be talking about it.
513. 33:47Basically what it comes down to is that Christians in America, let's like everybody else, tend
514. 33:55to be selfish. And I don't say that to be derogatory toward anybody. But just looking at the numbers,
515. 34:02what I find is that we have pretty much placed ourselves on God's throne and said, you know,
516. 34:09it's all about me. It's all about us. And God's there to take care of me. And so I'm,
517. 34:15you know, I'm expecting that from him. It's very similar to what we're now, I'm afraid,
518. 34:22going to do with Donald Trump, which is like, okay, Mr. Trump, we did our part. We got you
519. 34:29into office. Now, you're the pay professional. You're the expert. You do the job for us, as
520. 34:36opposed to recognizing that in a constitutional republic. It's about the people. Just like in
521. 34:44a church, you know, we do the same thing to pastors. We hire a pastor, and then we come
522. 34:50when we sit and we watch and we expect the pastor to do everything.
523. 34:55Well, that's not what a church is.
524. 34:57That's not how it's supposed to work.
525. 35:00You know, we as the servants of the living God
526. 35:03are the ones who have been gifted and called to do the ministry.
527. 35:07And the pastor can encourage us.
528. 35:08The pastor can support us.
529. 35:10The pastor can educate us.
530. 35:13But the pastor can't do our ministry for us.
531. 35:16And it's that same way in America with the citizenry.
532. 35:20We can't just sit back and look at, you know, 535 members of Congress and say,
533. 35:25all right, we elected you. We put you there. We're paying your salary. Go do the deal.
534. 35:30No, really. I mean, they're there to serve us. And so we have to give them direction.
535. 35:35We have to give them feedback. And we have to come alongside them.
536. 35:40We can't look at politics or government as something that's so dirty that we don't want to
537. 35:46be dirty by it, we have to look at ourselves and say,
538. 35:51you know what, we're the ones who have to clean it up.
539. 35:54If we recognize that there's corruption there,
540. 35:56we got to root it out.
541. 35:57We've got to identify and get rid of it.
542. 35:59If we recognize that there are things that need to be done,
543. 36:02we need to be part of the solution,
544. 36:04not just part of the cheering section.
545. 36:06So that's all part of it.
546. 36:08You know, when I look at, I mentioned before,
547. 36:12the selfishness on our part,
548. 36:14Really, I think the fear based on the research
549. 36:17that we've got here, the post-election research,
550. 36:20what motivated a lot of Christians was fear
551. 36:22that they were gonna lose a lot of their money
552. 36:25under Mrs. Harris.
553. 36:27They were gonna lose a lot of their freedom
554. 36:30under Mrs. Harris and that they would probably lose
555. 36:34some of their security,
556. 36:36whether that was because of criminal activity
557. 36:38or whether it was because of the open borders.
558. 36:41all of that had to do with the ginning up of the fear
559. 36:47that so many Christians felt.
560. 36:51And I understand that that's reasonable to an extent.
561. 36:54I'm not saying that's foolish,
562. 36:56but that can't really be the primary way
563. 36:59that we think about how our lives go.
564. 37:03I mean, as I read the Scriptures,
565. 37:04it tells us, Jesus tells us that if you really follow Him,
566. 37:09If you're deeply involved in a relationship with him and serving him continually, standing
567. 37:15up for his principles, his values, his teachings, you're going to be persecuted.
568. 37:20And so, you know, get over it.
569. 37:23That's just what the Christian life here is.
570. 37:26And that's why it's important to take the long view.
571. 37:28We're here for a short time.
572. 37:29We're visitors on this planet.
573. 37:31We're not going to be here that long.
574. 37:33We have a job to do.
575. 37:34Let's do it well so that we hear well done, good and faithful servant from our Lord when
576. 37:38we're done here.
577. 37:39You know, and I know what you're saying is true.
578. 37:42Obviously, I trust your research and you said, concern for security, concern of loss of revenue,
579. 37:48concern of loss of liberties.
580. 37:49But you know what I didn't hear?
581. 37:51I didn't hear there being a concern for the ability to execute our Lord's commission, the
582. 37:57concern for our ability to proclaim the truth, the concern for our ability to live the truth.
583. 38:03And that is one of the things that's concerning to me,
584. 38:08that instead of having a bride that is vigorous
585. 38:10and being salt and light, that by and large,
586. 38:13being manipulated to buy our context,
587. 38:15we become lightly salted.
588. 38:17And to where even thinking about,
589. 38:18oh, this is so dirty.
590. 38:20When I hear people say that,
591. 38:21I don't think they recognize,
592. 38:22but it's actually a bit of despising the context
593. 38:26that God deposited us in to execute his commission.
594. 38:28He could have easily made us Christians in China,
595. 38:30the way we have no say so, the public engagement.
596. 38:32or in another nation, but this is the land that God has deposited us in.
597. 38:36And anybody who's been involved in making disciples, you know, that is dirty business, too.
598. 38:40You know, getting involved in the lives, I speak for myself, of guys who formerly were,
599. 38:46you know, promiscuous and all kinds of other things, that stuff can be dirty, too.
600. 38:50And it just shows, unfortunately, in my view, a deficiency in understanding of what it means
601. 38:55to execute our Lord's Commission and be salt and light.
602. 38:58Am I painting that too aggressively?
603. 39:00Not at all. I'm cheering you up, brother.
604. 39:05You know, I look at my data. Let me give an example of what that looks like, statistically.
605. 39:11We've got 68% of adults in America who consider themselves to be Christian.
606. 39:17Less than half that number actually embrace Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
607. 39:24less than one third of that number actually qualify as even
608. 39:30Jellicles and less than half of that number have a biblical worldview
609. 39:38So, you know, if you have an inverted funnel and you keep looking at, you know
610. 39:42The easiest way to be considered part of the club. You know, that's that well
611. 39:47Yeah, I'm a Christian you got you know almost seven out of ten Americans
612. 39:50But then when you start asking about commitment and looking at beliefs and the follow through
613. 39:58on those beliefs in terms of lifestyle, those numbers keep getting smaller and smaller and
614. 40:05it ought not be that way.
615. 40:07So we look at what's going on in our country.
616. 40:12we're supposed to be the cleansing agent in this dirtiness that we're so turned off by
617. 40:21in our culture. But again, just looking at all the different studies that I get to do about values
618. 40:27and beliefs and lifestyles and relationships and faith practices, all kinds of things.
619. 40:33I mean, what we're seeing very clearly and very consistently is that the Christian body,
620. 40:40no matter how you wanted to find it, is more influenced by the culture that they live in
621. 40:47than those Christians are influencing the culture that they live in. And that's not what Jesus died on the cross-war.
622. 40:55You know, you bring up the whole issue of are we bringing the Christian faith to other people?
623. 41:03And by and large, we're not.
624. 41:05Now, part of it is because of fear.
625. 41:09We're more concerned about losing our reputation
626. 41:13in front of other people than we are in terms of
627. 41:18not doing what God put us here to do.
628. 41:21So we've got the wrong fears motivating us
629. 41:24to do what we're doing.
630. 41:26Some of it is that it goes back to that conversation thing
631. 41:29we talked about before, where Christians don't want to engage
632. 41:32political conversation because they didn't do enough homework on the issues. They have
633. 41:36no idea how those issues relate to biblical principles. So they don't want to get into
634. 41:41conversation with somebody who might challenge them. Well, why do you think that? How do you
635. 41:47defend that? Because they say, well, I can't. Well, shame on us. So we go back to all these
636. 41:53things and part of it is because we don't know what we believe. And so when somebody starts
637. 41:58asking us questions were very uncomfortable in those kinds of conversations. When in reality,
638. 42:06the next book that I'm doing, Abe, is about adult discipleship. How do we make disciples
639. 42:12in America today? So we're doing a lot of research on that. And one of the things that we're discovering
640. 42:17is that one of the most important things in not only bringing somebody to faith, but then
641. 42:24discipling them because evangelism without discipleship, I would argue is spiritual abuse.
642. 42:30And so you say that one more time, say that one more time, say that one more time, please. Yeah,
643. 42:35evangelism without discipleship is spiritual abuse because you've started leading them down the path,
644. 42:42but then you let them wander off the path because you weren't diligent enough to keep them on that
645. 42:48path. And so we've got to make sure that we don't just start the job, but that we've finished the job.
646. 42:54And so what we're seeing here is that Christians are basically invisible in our culture.
647. 43:02We can't discuss our faith.
648. 43:04We don't want to discuss our faith.
649. 43:06Why?
650. 43:07Because we're not sure what it is.
651. 43:08We don't feel we can defend it.
652. 43:10We don't want to have our reputation undermined by standing up for Jesus Christ.
653. 43:19When in point of fact, that's why we're here.
654. 43:22What else are we here for?
655. 43:24to buy houses and porsches and fancy clothes, not at all.
656. 43:29We're here to know love and serve God
657. 43:31with all our heart-mind strength and soul,
658. 43:33and that means being willing to take the hits
659. 43:36for letting people know I love him.
660. 43:39I wanna be like him.
661. 43:41Jesus is what my life is about,
662. 43:43and it's what your life needs to be about.
663. 43:46Let me help you get there.
664. 43:48And if you're not willing to do that,
665. 43:49then you need to go back, go back to the woodshed,
666. 43:52do the homework.
667. 43:53find somebody to mentor you in that process.
668. 43:57Almost a very small proportion of disciples in America
669. 44:02ever been discipled by somebody else.
670. 44:05It's pathetic.
671. 44:06That's what the church exists for,
672. 44:08is for us to have those relationships
673. 44:11and that kind of coaching through our faith
674. 44:16so that we become more mature
675. 44:18and we have more that we can give to other people.
676. 44:21And so if you are a disciple, I'm begging you, man.
677. 44:24I'm begging you, lady.
678. 44:25Take your time, take your energy,
679. 44:28and find somebody to disciple.
680. 44:31Pour your life into it.
681. 44:33Put your resources into it.
682. 44:35Cause that's how we change the country.
683. 44:38Election day was terrific.
684. 44:39I'm, you know, that was nice.
685. 44:41But the way that we change the country
686. 44:43isn't every four years voting in somebody
687. 44:46who's better than somebody else.
688. 44:47The way we change the country is by you and me as disciples
689. 44:51investing everything that we've got
690. 44:54into trying to turn around the lives of other people,
691. 44:57trying to make them into the disciples in Jesus.
692. 45:00What would you say to the person who says,
693. 45:01well, we should be able to secure our country's future
694. 45:05without bringing into it all of that religious stuff.
695. 45:08We don't really need that in order to have a great country.
696. 45:11What would you say to that person?
697. 45:13That when you're trying to develop a country
698. 45:16and you wanna shape it in a particular way,
699. 45:20And you want to think long term and say,
700. 45:22this is where I want it to go.
701. 45:24Well, the only way it can go there
702. 45:25is if it's built on a strong foundation.
703. 45:29And that foundation has to be truth.
704. 45:33Now, there's only one source of truth, and that's God.
705. 45:37God was good enough because he created us
706. 45:40and he knows us inside out.
707. 45:42He knows that we needed a guide for truth,
708. 45:45and so he gave us the Bible.
709. 45:47And so that delineates what truth is for us in every way, shape, and form related to every issue we're going to encounter in life for all the stages of our life.
710. 45:59And so yes, if you want to make a great country wonderful, let's look long term, let's plan.
711. 46:05But let's also do our homework.
712. 46:07Look at it historically.
713. 46:09Has any country that has tried any approach other than being true to God's truth.
714. 46:15There is no other truth. Being true to that. Have they ever been able to sustain their nation? No.
715. 46:23Have they ever been able to sustain the path that they've gone down? No. America is unique in
716. 46:29that for almost a quarter of a millennium. We've been able to to identify and uphold many of God's
717. 46:38principles. The last 20, 30 years, we've really taken a sharp turn off that path. And we need to
718. 46:44to get back on it.
719. 46:46But I mean, that's really our only hope.
720. 46:48It's not about religion.
721. 46:50It's about truth.
722. 46:53And that truth is what gives us our purpose.
723. 46:55That truth is what defines success.
724. 46:58And we come to recognize through God's truth,
725. 47:00that success is not about reputation and popularity
726. 47:05and money and all that.
727. 47:06It's simply about consistent obedience to God.
728. 47:09And when we consistently follow his ways,
729. 47:13Yes, we can make things strong and right and desirable.
730. 47:17And we can fry.
731. 47:19Well said.
732. 47:20Dr. Barner, Dr. George Barner, ladies and gentlemen,
733. 47:23you can keep up with his research at culturalresearchcenter.com.
734. 47:28You can follow his work also at ArizonaChristian.edu
735. 47:32and get his research on this 2024 election as it's available.
736. 47:38The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast
737. 47:40may not necessarily reflect those
738. 47:42of the American Family Association,
739. 47:44or American Family Radio.